View Full Version : 4345
my custom 4345. I change the 077 to 075 and the 2425 to the 175dlh
more pic . the 2245h are being recone and 1 of the 2123 the same. the L-pads are fostex. the xover is jbl spec I got from ian and mr widget posting. the xover will be tweak a little for the 075 and 175dlh
more pic . the 2245h are being recone and 1 of the 2123 the same. the L-pads are fostex. the xover is jbl spec I got from ian and mr widget posting. the xover will be tweak a little for the 075 and 175dlh
I will send finish product pic when the 2245h /2123 are done . the cabs were built by ben phillps- tritech electronics. any one who want a pair of 4345 cabs built this guy does awesome work and u can not beat his price:jawdrop:
hjames
04-14-2008, 10:59 AM
more pic . the 2245h are being recone and 1 of the 2123 the same. the L-pads are fostex. the xover is jbl spec I got from ian and mr widget posting. the xover will be tweak a little for the 075 and 175dlh
Looks nice - like to see (and hear) them when they are done!
Thanks hjames I will pick the speakers up on 4-26 08 any time after that u are more then welcome to come pass and check these bad boys out send me an email and I will give u my adress
Krunchy
04-14-2008, 11:22 AM
They doo look nice :applaud: Interesting combination.
You are in for some fun in the very near future my friend.
Enjoy!
They doo look nice :applaud: Interesting combination.
You are in for some fun in the very near future my friend.
Enjoy!thanks, I havent bought the tube power amp of yet but I will buy a music reference rm10 tube power amp.and I do have a CROWN K2 for the Lf driver and my preamp is a pioneer spec2:bouncy::bouncy:
grumpy
04-14-2008, 12:51 PM
Interesting project :)
I'll guess that pointing the MF/HF drivers at your seated listening position (head) may be of
some benefit. An uncle of mine set up a system with the same MF/HF drivers and what
was probably an LE14A ... & an L65-looking grille. Apparently left an impression on me :)
Did sound much better from a low-couch perspective (the cabinets were not angled up).
-grumpy
Don Mascali
04-26-2008, 02:56 PM
Have you picked those puppies up yet?
not yet I am waiting on the xover 5.4mh coil is on back order. the guy who is building the xover will ship them to ben who is building my cabs then I will drive down and pick them up
rj2077
05-14-2008, 06:35 AM
is there a speciffic reason you did not use CC X-OVERS? just curious
regards
is there a speciffic reason you did not use CC X-OVERS? just curious
regards the reason I didnt go with a charge coupled x over. as u can see in the picture I have a four way bi amp passive x over. not electric. plus I am going to use a power tube amp on the mids and tweeters and a crown k2 on the jbl 2245h I dont really thing I am going to here that much of a difference in sound. sorry It took so long to answer your question. a child hood friend mother died
toddalin
05-19-2008, 09:10 AM
the reason I didnt go with a charge coupled x over. as u can see in the picture I have a four way bi amp passive x over. not electric. plus I am going to use a power tube amp on the mids and tweeters and a crown k2 on the jbl 2245h I dont really thing I am going to here that much of a difference in sound. sorry It took so long to answer your question. a child hood friend mother died
OK..., any reason why you didn't use by-pass caps (at least that I can see)? BTW, beautiful cabinets.
OK..., any reason why you didn't use by-pass caps (at least that I can see)? BTW, beautiful cabinets.
by pass caps were done in the 60s and 70s -2008 some technology has change for the better. all the caps u see in picture are hi end poly caps
Motus
05-19-2008, 11:19 AM
Indeed cabinets are superb inside out!
I noticed the sparse use of air core self-inductance: why this choice since ferrite core selfs can saturate and change properties?
Thanks
Indeed cabinets are superb inside out!
I noticed the sparse use of air core self-inductance: why this choice since ferrite core selfs can saturate and change properties?
Thanks
http://www.dstechlabs.com/sound go to quality first then go to EDCT. If u have any more question the owner name is bill he does this for a living
input feedback needed. to get ever body on the same page as I am on my speaker design. as u all know JBL have a pro side and a consumer side . I wanted to make a 4345 with a touch of consumer side on the high frequency and midrange. 2245h have a deeper bass and better power then jbl older consumer woofers. now on the hi end consumer side of jbl all of there tweeters have to me a much better crisp or sweeter sound -compare to the pro. but jbl sovereign-hartsvile-paragon use the 075 and le85 or le375 netheir one of these speaker on the consumer side have a charge coupled xover. they use a N-7000 and a LX-5. now why cant I get the same sweet sound out of my design as jbl did for there older hi end consumer speakers
Baron030
05-21-2008, 04:26 PM
Hi Dino
You did an excellent job on constructing of the enclosures. :applaud:
I thought I would share a tip that I learned from a high school wood shop class. When you apply a finish to the outside of an enclosure, it is a good idea to also apply a finish to the interior as well. This equalizes the expansion and contraction of the wood with changes in humidity. This will greatly reduce the possibility that the wood will warp over time.
Considering, the amount of bracing that you are using in your project, wood warping will never be a problem. But, applying some kind of a wood sealer to the interior of the enclosure will help keep all of the glue joints nice, tight and noise free over time. Since, the interior surfaces are not going to be visible. Just about anything that will seal wood grain will do the trick.
Baron030 :)
hjames
05-21-2008, 04:26 PM
JBL sovereign-hartsfield-paragon designs pre-date the development of Charge Coupled Crossovers. They also predate CD and modern recording technology with extended bass and high frequency media sources.
input feedback needed. to get ever body on the same page as I am on my speaker design. as u all know JBL have a pro side and a consumer side . I wanted to make a 4345 with a touch of consumer side on the high frequency and midrange. 2245h have a deeper bass and better power then jbl older consumer woofers. now on the hi end consumer side of jbl all of there tweeters have to me a much better crisp or sweeter sound -compare to the pro. but jbl sovereign-hartsvile-paragon use the 075 and le85 or le375 netheir one of these speaker on the consumer side have a charge coupled xover. they use a N-7000 and a LX-5. now why cant I get the same sweet sound out of my design as jbl did for there older hi end consumer speakers
toddalin
05-21-2008, 04:58 PM
by pass caps were done in the 60s and 70s -2008 some technology has change for the better. all the caps u see in picture are hi end poly caps
The caps I'm seeing in the pics are Dayton Metalized Polypropylene and while better than "off the shelf non-polarized caps," they are hardly a "high end" affair.
http://www.partsexpress.com/dayton-metallized-capacitors.cfm
Dayton even makes by-pass caps to go with these.
http://www.partsexpress.com/dayton-film-capacitors.cfm
Still, you could pay a bit more and go with real quality by-pass caps. Because the values are small (i.e., 0.01 mfd), the outlay isn't that great. Don't you think with all that work, your speakers are worth spending a few dollars more on? At least on the tweeter for a little more air?
The caps I'm seeing in the pics are Dayton Metalized Polypropylene and while better than "off the shelf non-polarized caps," they are hardly a "high end" affair.
http://www.partsexpress.com/dayton-metallized-capacitors.cfm
Dayton even makes by-pass caps to go with these.
http://www.partsexpress.com/dayton-film-capacitors.cfm
Still, you could pay a bit more and go with real quality by-pass caps. Because the values are small (i.e., 0.01 mfd), the outlay isn't that great. Don't you think with all that work, your speakers are worth spending a few dollars more on? At least on the tweeter for a little more air?Talk to me this is the responce I am looking for. do not worry about hurting my feelings. yes I will spend a little more money for better caps. what else do you see. what are the names of these quality caps and by pass caps.thanks for the input
Hi Dino
You did an excellent job on constructing of the enclosures. :applaud:
I thought I would share a tip that I learned from a high school wood shop class. When you apply a finish to the outside of an enclosure, it is a good idea to also apply a finish to the interior as well. This equalizes the expansion and contraction of the wood with changes in humidity. This will greatly reduce the possibility that the wood will warp over time.
Considering, the amount of bracing that you are using in your project, wood warping will never be a problem. But, applying some kind of a wood sealer to the interior of the enclosure will help keep all of the glue joints nice, tight and noise free over time. Since, the interior surfaces are not going to be visible. Just about anything that will seal wood grain will do the trick.
Baron030 :) hello baron030 I did not build the cabs I had a company in nc state build these for me. but thank u for the input
JBL sovereign-hartsfield-paragon designs pre-date the development of Charge Coupled Crossovers. They also predate CD and modern recording technology with extended bass and high frequency media sources.
thanks hjames but what is this charge coupled xover going to do for my speakers or drivers compare to my xover
has any one heard of mundorf supreme caps. I see some caps price range from 3.00 each to two hundred and some thing each. some were down the line the human ear is going to hear but so much
hjames
05-21-2008, 06:51 PM
thanks hjames but what is this charge coupled xover going to do for my speakers or drivers compare to my xover
Do a search on the site for CC networks or biased crossovers - a buncha folks here have spoken of the concept before. One of the big JBL engineers started doing it with the 250 tis and similar high end designs in the 80's and its quite popular with the high end consumer systems now.
Of course, I 'm not that engineer and I don't have them in my 4341s yet so I can't really speak from personal experience about them but I plan to get a set to replace my original crossovers, and I believe its really supposed to smooth the response & performance of the caps.
really, do a search here and find out ...
Ducatista47
05-21-2008, 07:21 PM
For high quality bypass caps, I have had excellent results from .01 Auricaps, obtained here:http://www.soniccraft.com/auricap.htm
You can pay more for other brands, but the results may not justify the additional cost given what you are trying to accomplish.
Clark in Peoria
For high quality bypass caps, I have had excellent results from .01 Auricaps, obtained here:http://www.soniccraft.com/auricap.htm
You can pay more for other brands, but the results may not justify the additional cost given what you are trying to accomplish.
Clark in Peoria thank u for your info. I will buy some auricap:)
finish product the way I want it:D:D:D I want to thank Ben phillps at Tri Tech Electronics Inc he did an AWESOME JOB ON THE CABS. THANKS BEN
toddalin
07-17-2008, 06:46 PM
Very nice! :applaud:
oznob
07-17-2008, 07:07 PM
Beautiful work, way to go!:thmbsup:
Krunchy
07-17-2008, 07:12 PM
I'll second that :applaud: they look great, how do the neighbors like them :D
BTW I like that room!!!!:) looks like a fun place.
Enjoy!
I'll second that :applaud: they look great, how do the neighbors like them :D
BTW I like that room!!!!:) looks like a fun place.
Enjoy! hey . the room is ben work place . I will drive down next month to pu the speakers. 8 hour up and 8 hour back. thanks
To all the guys who gave me input and answer my question .Thanks:applaud::applaud::applaud:
4313B
07-18-2008, 06:17 AM
Dayton even makes by-pass caps to go with these.Yeah but I don't think they sound very nice together. I'd have to recommend the Audiocap PPT Theta (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=027-700)
They are alot more expensive than the Dayton's though.
For high quality bypass caps, I have had excellent results from .01 Auricaps, obtained here:http://www.soniccraft.com/auricap.htm
Those are nice too and even more expensive than the Audiocaps. I associate that kind of cash with film and foil construction though.
Very nice enclosure build!
rj2077
07-18-2008, 06:55 AM
hey dino, those look great!!!!!!!!!! please post sonic qualities once at home.
enjoy
Yeah but I don't think they sound very nice together. I'd have to recommend the Audiocap PPT Theta (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=027-700)
They are alot more expensive than the Dayton's though.
Those are nice too and even more expensive than the Audiocaps. I associate that kind of cash with film and foil construction though.
Very nice enclosure build!
thanks once I get the speakers home I will go with the auricap. thanks for the info:)
hey dino, those look great!!!!!!!!!! please post sonic qualities once at home.
enjoy thanks I will as soon as i get them home:)
12-13-08 at 10:53 pm my babies made it home. I never in my life have I been one with my ears mind and sprit ! These speaker are every thing I thought they would be and soooooo much more. I just dont listen to music my jbl speakers make my soul as one with the music. This is a musical high I never experience in my life befor and I never want to come down from it. and I am not new to this game i have own jbl L56- L112- L250- 4311-. My 1ST custom jbl speaker did not do so well -gene speakers. but I never gave up and today my custom jbl speakers took my ears to a place I never been befor and i will never forget THANK U JBL:applaud::applaud::applaud:
gerard
12-15-2008, 04:48 AM
Does the 175dlh use a horn like wave guide ?
I am beginning confuse with Horn and wave guide :blink:!
Gerard
BMWCCA
12-15-2008, 06:37 AM
Does the 175dlh use a horn like wave guide ?
I am beginning confuse with Horn and wave guide.The diffuser for the driver/lens combination 175DLH is the "potato masher" collection of perforated discs. I've never seen it used with any additional lens. For more info, click on the image below to take you to the 175DLH info in the LH library.
http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/specs/home-comp/175dlh/thumbs/page1_small.jpg (http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/home-comp/175dlh.htm)
175 dlh were use in home and pro in jbl early days. jbl bi radial horns some of them have a constant 100/100- no matter were u set your speakers. I just love the sound of the 175 dlh and 075 hf
Wonderboy
12-16-2008, 07:52 PM
Hey dino,
A friend of mine sells Mundorf Caps (Mcaps), I could put you in touch with him if you are interested.
Kevin.
Hey dino,
A friend of mine sells Mundorf Caps (Mcaps), I could put you in touch with him if you are interested.
Kevin.
hey kevin. my speakers sound great. my question to u and all the others, will I really hear a difference in sound quality.clarity caps mundorf caps auri caps- some have a tolerance of 10% -5% or 3% and price from 8.00 dollars to 300 or 500 each I beleive this is call tweaking your speaker this could be a good thing or bad thing . as I said befor my speakers sound awesome but i always try to keep an open mind.if u can turn water into wine I am all ears
Wonderboy
12-18-2008, 06:40 AM
Hey Dino,
To be honest with you, I really don't know. I have never done a A/B comparison. I know there are some 'highend' guys out there with golden ears and a bank full of gold who believe they are better.
I did have an experience with a highend system this year. I had a gentleman (an Audio/Electrical Engineer) come over to my house to attempt to solve a buzzing noise in my tri-amped system. We never could solve the noise problem but he invited me over to his house to have a listen to his system. He has a specially made sound room, floor and walls two feet thick, no parallel walls etc, everything 'highend'. He played some music for me on his system and it just BLEW me away, I had never heard a home system sound so good. He uses the MCaps in his speakers but his whole system is very 'highend' so I'm sure it's not just the caps that made that music.
That's about all I can tell ya!
Kev.:)
Hey kevin thanks for your help and input. I have been looking into this caps things this site is still under consturction but I was told it will tell u every thing we need to know about caps. humblehifi.com (http://www.humblehifi.com)
hjames
12-18-2008, 07:52 AM
Hey kevin thanks for your help and input. I have been looking into this caps things this site is still under construction but I was told it will tell you every thing we need to know about caps. http.humblehifi.com (http://www.humblehifi.com)
Nothing to see there! Thanks for the tip, but that site doesn't actually exist - http://www.humblehifi.com/
It looks like maybe it WAS a site once,
but it seems to be expiring ...
created: 2006-03-21 15:14:08 UTC
modified: 2008-03-06 01:47:46 UTC
registered to fuscoindustries.com
http://humblehifi.com/ I hope this help but remember still under constuction
4313B
12-18-2008, 08:42 AM
I think everyone already read it years ago.
hey kevin. my speakers sound great. my question to u and all the others, will I really hear a difference in sound quality.clarity caps mundorf caps auri caps- some have a tolerance of 10% -5% or 3% and price from 8.00 dollars to 300 or 500 each I beleive this is call tweaking your speaker this could be a good thing or bad thing . as I said befor my speakers sound awesome but i always try to keep an open mind.if u can turn water into wine I am all earsI could kind of, sort of see you fretting over capacitors if you were running Be diaphragms and ultra-low distortion dynamic drivers but I just looked over your components in your system and frankly, buy yourself some Dayton capacitors from PE, maybe bypass them with Thetas, and call it done.
as I said befor my speakers sound awesomeThen stop screwing around on this website and go listen to your awesome speakers. ;)
I think everyone already read it years ago.I could kind of, sort of see you fretting over capacitors if you were running Be diaphragms and ultra-low distortion dynamic drivers but I just looked over your components in your system and frankly, buy yourself some Dayton capacitors from PE, maybe bypass them with Thetas, and call it done.Then stop screwing around on this website and go listen to your awesome speakers. ;)
again LOL the only way to grow is to learn ! I spent alot of money on my awesome speakers which sound great and if I can make them sound even better by changing some caps with the help of some of the knowledgeable people on this site then I would do so:)
4313B
12-18-2008, 09:16 AM
My point is, I hate to see you fret over something so silly but if you want to go ahead and have a bunch of knowledgeable people help you part with your money go for it. Hook the most expensive capacitors you can possibly bring yourself to buy up to those 075's and 175 DLH's. :) Just by virtue of having spent a ton of money you will hear an amazing difference. Everybody knows that you can't spend $300 on a capacitor without hearing a mind blowing difference. A $300 capacitor will alter your entire universe. The $500 capacitors instantly teleport you into the fourth dimension so if you want to disappear forever buy them instead.
My point is, I hate to see you fret over something so silly but if you want to go ahead and have a bunch of knowledgeable people help you part with your money go for it. Hook the most expensive capacitors you can possibly bring yourself to buy up to those 075's and 175 DLH's. :) Just by virtue of having spent a ton of money you will hear an amazing difference. Everybody knows that you can't spend $300 on a capacitor without hearing a mind blowing difference. A $300 capacitor will alter your entire universe. The $500 capacitors instantly teleport you into the fourth dimension so if you want to disappear forever buy them instead.LOL its not that deep:p
Did you modify the network to accomodate to the 2123H instead of the 2122H?
Do you have the T/S mesurements of your aftermaket 2245H cone?
Did you modify the network to accomodate to the 2123H instead of the 2122H?
Do you have the T/S mesurements of your aftermaket 2245H cone? yes and I dont have the eq at my house but I am waiting on a friend who will do this for me when completed i will post t/s- everthing
boputnam
12-18-2008, 11:56 AM
my custom 4345. I change the 077 to 075 and the 2425 to the 175dlhThis is merely a unique DIY in a beautiful 4345 cabinet. It is not a 4345. :no:
Did you modify the network to accomodate to the 2123H instead of the 2122H?
Do you have the T/S mesurements of your aftermaket 2245H cone?There's all that, and more. Don't get me started in the 075 and potato masher choices... :baby:
This is merely a unique DIY in a beautiful 4345 cabinet. It is not a 4345. :no:
There's all that, and more. Don't get me started in the 075 and potato masher choices... :baby:thanks. well the design started off as a 4345 I love the sound of the 075 I never heard the 2405 I also love the sound of the 175dlh but I am not crazy about the potato masher. some old with the sort of new. I got the sound I was looking for:)
Mr. Widget
12-18-2008, 12:51 PM
I got the sound I was looking for:)Can't argue with that... :D
Though I do agree with Bo. I wouldn't call your speaker a 4345. It looks nice though. It is certainly something to be proud of.
Widget
Ian Mackenzie
12-19-2008, 09:40 PM
Hey Dino,
Did your crossover builder use the stock 3145 shematic?
Also, has he provided a measured frequency response of the final system.
I only ask as 2123H you appear to have used (instead of the 2123) has different response characteristics and generally requires additional crossover components to attenuate a rising response above 1 khertz.
I would recommend verifiying the FR before considering more fancy crossover parts.
(I propose to use the 2123 in my own 4345 clones (just for grins) and will confirm the required crossover schematic on the 4345 baffle sometime in Jan 2009)
Ian
Ian Mackenzie
12-19-2008, 11:30 PM
thanks. well the design started off as a 4345 I love the sound of the 075 I never heard the 2405 I also love the sound of the 175dlh but I am not crazy about the potato masher. some old with the sort of new. I got the sound I was looking for:)
Perhaps the point here is you are happy and that is what its all about.
I reviewed the thread earlier and you approach has been measured and well thought out, the execution impressive and you got external assistance were it was needed.
On the 2402, my first and most interesting encounter was at the Rick Wakeman concert in Melbourne around 1974. They had a massive JBL system that must have been a 6-7 way and on the top of each huge stack of horns of every kind in the JBL PRO brochure was an array of a 2402s.
The power of the keyboards and a full orchestra is really something and it is worth getting a copy of Journey to the Centre of the Earth to try out on your system
The concert was reported in the front page of the Age newspaper the next day that during Merlin the Magician they blew all the 18 inch JBL woofers with a 30 hertz triangle wave. It was like an earth quake
I gave him all the info on the 175dlh- 2123-075-2245h. he said he did his home work on all the drivers.I can not speak for him but he put all the info into his computer and the computer does a test on each driver and the speaker as a whole unit. all I can tell u is my speakers sound great they hit hard and they are well balance. the caps issue is a never ending story as time goes on some one builds a better product like caps -audio cables and etc. I am guilty I want the best sound out of my stereo so this will always be a never ending story. like u said Ian If it ant broke leave it alone. let see how long this will last
Ian Mackenzie
12-19-2008, 11:39 PM
Hey Dino,
You have done very well......:applaud:.
Perhaps the point here is you are happy and that is what its all about.
I reviewed the thread earlier and you approach has been measured and well thought out, the execution impressive and you got external assistance were it was needed.
On the 2402, my first and most interesting encounter was at the Rick Wakeman concert in Melbourne around 1974. They had a massive JBL system that must have been a 6-7 way and on the top of each huge stack of horns of every kind in the JBL PRO brochure was an array of a 2402s.
The power of the keyboards and a full orchestra is really something and it is worth getting a copy of Journey to the Centre of the Earth to try out on your system
The concert was reported in the front page of the Age newspaper the next day that during Merlin the Magician they blew all the 18 inch JBL woofers with a 30 hertz triangle wave. It was like an earth quake
thanks for every one help this is a great sounding finish product. I can not say that for my first project gene speakes u live and u learn:applaud::applaud:
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