Urei JBL 813B

[David Ketley]

Hi I have owned a pair of these speakers for many years but have never been totally satisfied with them. I power them with a pair of Yamaha PC2602Ms power amps via a very simple pot as a volume control. The Yamahas put out 800 watts each into 8 ohms mono mode.
I have been looking to upgrade the base units or to add a subwoofer as the speakers are free standing and seemed base light.
Getting to the crux of my post I recently brought some ATC SCM 35s hooked them up to a Onyko 605 AV amp and was astounded by what I was hearing deep controlled base with massive control and just clear as a bell.
Couldn't wait so I hooked them up to my main power amps the Yamahas disappointed ! Ok hooked up the Urie JBLS to the AV amp, unbelievable I have never heard such tight control clear top and and plenty of base response.
Now I'm not a great lover of domestic consumer electronics but just try that little AV amp and I think you will be amazed no need for that subwoofer. Anyone want to buy a pair of ATCs no where near the 813Bs for sound quality!
Dave

[readswift]

interesting you made the UREI vs. ATC comparison, cause you can read about these examples right there:

http://www.resolutionmag.com/pdfs/SWEETS~1/LOWFRE~1.PDF

about urei and soffit mounting:

http://bobhodas.com/pub3.html

[David Ketley]

Thanks reasdswift yes my own opinion as well I actually brought the ATCs for my AV set up.
I am just astounded at the quality of the output from the AV amp and its control is rock solid. Im not all that keen on the domestic HiFi scene with its huge hype. Has anyone else hooked up this amp to quality speakers? Just try it and I think you will be astounded as I am.
Ive also got rid of my Meridian Cd player and Dac, I just run my input from the computer via a professional Dac , its never sounded better Im busy going through my music collection listening to it all again in wonder!
Try the Onyko 605 AV amp on demo or the 875 I would be interested to hear some one else's opinions.
Thanks
Dave

[richluvsound]

Hi David,

what dac are you using ?

Rich

[UreiCollector]

I once had a Yamaha M-45 amplifier and was astounded at how downright AWFUL it sounded. It was pretty to look at with that nice LED power meter on the front.....but I couldn't get it out of my system fast enough. Yuck!

As far as today's AV receivers go....they have come a long way, I can't disagree. I'm still using my Hafler's though, as AV receivers havn't come that far yet. =)

[David Ketley]

Hi Rich Im using the SM Pro ADDA 192-S two-channel, 24-bit, 192-kHz AD/DA converter.
Im sure there are others out there which are better but it is cost affective.
I had some £1700 of outdated Cd Dac from Meridian which didn't even sound as good as the computer. On the forums the guys were messing about soldering new Dacs onto there high end sound cards so a separate Dac seemed a much better solution.

Uriecollector : I would love someone to hook up a Onkyo and give me an opinion I think you would be very surprised.

[Mr. Widget]

Has anyone else hooked up this amp to quality speakers? Just try it and I think you will be astounded as I am.
Ive also got rid of my Meridian Cd player and Dac, I just run my input from the computer via a professional Dac , its never sounded better Im busy going through my music collection listening to it all again in wonder!
Try the Onyko 605 AV amp on demo or the 875 I would be interested to hear some one else's opinions.
Are you talking about the Onkyo TX-SR605? I have not heard this particular model, but all of the Onkyo, Integra, Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, etc. AVRs that I have heard up to and including their several thousand dollar models have sounded very constricted and unpleasant through good speakers when listening to music with no visuals to distract you. For movies, they are mostly pretty good, but even then if you use the pre-outs to separate amps with actual power supplies and transistors (or tubes ;)) the sound improves even further.


Widget

[David Ketley]

Mr Widget must agree with you it was only the fact I had them all in the same room that I decided to give it a try. It produces a very good sound well above its price.

[Mr. Widget]

Hey, I didn't mean to rain on your parade, but I am just so disappointed that a basic 30 year old Marantz receiver kicks the butt of almost all of today's surround receivers. The need to pack so much into these things and keep the cost down has led to processors and amps that are just not that great.


Widget

[David Ketley]

OK so what power amps do you recommend? The problem is that older amps have issues it seems with capacitors slowly deteriorating and the fact that the power required to fit in transients is 800w per channel? Any of the professional amps up to much? The Yamaha's sounded dogs in there normal mode but were transformed when run as monoblocks.

[richluvsound]

Dave,

I didn't ......... Check out MC2 , Bryston, K2. Forget bridging, Just get mono blocks. Whats your budget.

And, watch that Mr Widget character , he has expensive tastes :p

Rich

[Ian Mackenzie]

Hi I have owned a pair of these speakers for many years but have never been totally satisfied with them. I power them with a pair of Yamaha PC2602Ms power amps via a very simple pot as a volume control. The Yamahas put out 800 watts each into 8 ohms mono mode.
I have been looking to upgrade the base units or to add a subwoofer as the speakers are free standing and seemed base light.
Getting to the crux of my post I recently brought some ATC SCM 35s hooked them up to a Onyko 605 AV amp and was astounded by what I was hearing deep controlled base with massive control and just clear as a bell.
Couldn't wait so I hooked them up to my main power amps the Yamahas disappointed ! Ok hooked up the Urie JBLS to the AV amp, unbelievable I have never heard such tight control clear top and and plenty of base response.
Now I'm not a great lover of domestic consumer electronics but just try that little AV amp and I think you will be amazed no need for that subwoofer. Anyone want to buy a pair of ATCs no where near the 813Bs for sound quality!
Dave


Hi Dave,

Any chance of a pic?

Its seems you have identified something by accident and you appear better off for it!

One possible reason is the Yamaha may not fair as well being driven from a passive (pot) volume control as this represents a relatively high source impediance and you maybe loosing some bandwith with capacitance on the input cables.

The Onkyo may well perform better at low levels. I use a Kenwood A/V amp and for movies and its fine. Under critical listening my seperates perform better but they are 20 times the price. These newer A/V amps pack a real bang for your buck. As for Marantz, in the early days they made a few good amps but most were Dogs thereafter. Soggy bass and unstable for driving 2235's is not my cup of tea. :o: Some of their more recent Hi end stuff is very nice.:)

If you like what you hear that is all that matters.;)

Another potential reason for the subjective difference is running the big Yamaha at low levels is the most non linear region. If you drive it hard it will most likely sound a lot cleaner. Some parts could be aging as well.

The newer QSC power amp are quite respectable

[David Ketley]

Thanks for that Ian I was up till 2 in the morning I just sit and listened astounded, the clarity at the top end, its incredible and the base is tight as well. Maybe Ive hit on a good combination with the DAC, cables and the Onkyo 605.
My friend has a pair of the big JBLs in your picture powered by Threshold Amps, stunning sound but I found sound fatigue setting in after a while.

I will send pictures when I have a bit more time, just buried the dog and the wifes in hospital!
Dave

[readswift]

UREI topic, can I chime in with some time Time Align™ stuff ? :idea:
http://www.geocities.com/kreskovs/CrossoverdocN.html

I'd use it with 4435 , what do you think?
Amp idea ? I can choose between 80W Class-A and 400W class-D / side. ( for now ,on the long run i want both lol)

[johnaec]

...just buried the dog and the wifes in hospital!:blink: Are the incidents related? 'Thoughts are with you...

John

[Andyoz]

I had a pair of SCM35's for 6 months and they bored me to dead. They were driven by one of ATC's power amps...(SPA2-150 I think - massive thing that ran really hot).

ATC's can't do bass IMO. It's very accurate but no warmth to the sound and rock just sounded a bit "weird" on them.

[cooky1257]

Dave,

I didn't ......... Check out MC2 , Bryston, K2. Forget bridging, Just get mono blocks. Whats your budget.

And, watch that Mr Widget character , he has expensive tastes :p

Rich

I'd second the MC2 recommendation-truly excellent sound with real muscle to boot!

[Mr. Widget]

OK so what power amps do you recommend.For surround use in a HT application I have used Hafler, Soundcraftsmen, Adcom, Parasound, Bryston, Integra, Integra Research, ATI, and probably a few other amps. Almost none were supreme 2 channel amps, but they all made the system sound significantly better than the current starved AV amp sections in the variety of AVRs I have auditioned. If you have the budget, I'd go with Bryston, Pass Labs, or perhaps Levinson or Halcro. Amps and speakers are actually interrelated and an amp that sounds spectacular on one speaker may not do it with another. I was at a buddy's house the other day and he was running a newish lower end Mac without output autoformers on a pair of Revels. The bass was just mush and the dynamics were constricted. We replaced it with a Bryston and the system came alive. On other systems I was less enthusiastic about the Brystons.


The problem is that older amps have issues it seems with capacitors slowly deteriorating...Very true!


Thanks for that Ian I was up till 2 in the morning I just sit and listened astounded, the clarity at the top end, its incredible and the base is tight as well. Maybe Ive hit on a good combination with the DAC, cables and the Onkyo 605.That's awesome.

The principle motivation behind my post was that other folks with other rooms, speakers etc. might not find the Onkyo quite as satisfying. Over the last year I have set up at least 2 dozen surround systems and Home Theaters and have not yet been impressed with any of the AVRs. I always prefer a proper processor with separate amps or an AVR with pre-outs running separate amps. If you are on a tight budget I always recommend getting an AVR with pre-outs so that at a later date you can always add front channel amps. I feel the surrounds and rears (if any) are fine being powered by the AVR.

Widget

[David Ketley]

Hi Im not running the Onkyo in AV mode just stereo.
Thanks for the feedback Ill post some pictures.

Anyone else gone the computer direction as an input? I transfer CDs via EAC software it just seems to enhance the sound I'm hearing. Even MP3 so Ok I would love to compare my system with some high end stuff.
Dave

[richluvsound]

David,

so where about on this shitty little island are you ?

Rich

[David Ketley]

hi John thanks for the concern no problems really just a set of circumstances coming together. Our Alsatian was 10 years old but had cancer so at the first sign that he was in real distress I had to have him put down. My wife has Rheumatoid Arthritis and has had an operation to sort out her feet.
Thanks again
Dave

[David Ketley]

Rich see www.dungevalley.co.uk
You need to get north not quite so shitty.
Dave

[David Ketley]

Hi Guys catastrophe had a mains spike take out a high frequency unit whilst testing the old amps. Any help to get a replacement would be appreciated. I understand its usually just the High Frequency cone that goes?