horn within a horn

[louped garouv]

saw a pic recently that got the brain to thinking...

about what i dunno yet...


Theroetically, would mounting a horn in a horn like this increase the percieved output of the compression driver?



this is a custom box made for the audiophile clubsound market by a custom installer in the nyc area, LHS member soundmanshorty. His installs are getting alot of love. hopefully i'll be able to hear one sooner or later.

metinks TAD 4002 loaded with TAD 1201* in the bottom.

looks cool at the very least.
:)

[speakerdave]

It would lower the effective cutoff frequency for that horn.

David

[louped garouv]

ah...

the normal bigger horn = lower cutoff paradigm....

makes sense to my feeble mind

thanks!

[edgewound]

I do believe that the cutoff of the horn can't be changed, due to the intrinsic loading of the existing horn throat dimensions.

If you look at the profile of the cabinet, notice that the upper and lower horns share the same geometry.

This cabinet is for pattern/dispersion control in high SPL dance club applications.

[subwoof]

Starting in 1981 I churned out dozens of those type boxes each year for club installs. While the cone loading was straight forward, the horns needed to be offset to make the voice coils align and whatever was left over was "built out" in the design to make a tidy front appearance or to allow a one piece grill.

My horn of choice back then ( before the flat fronts ) was the JBL 2309 or 2343 ( used in the 2390 and 2395 respectively ). No time delays, DSP's, etc meant you designed them as manageable as possible before installing them.

As far as "extending" the LF cutoff of the horn, any method that lengthens the wrap-around length will do that BUT it's smoothness will be suspect.

Just for fun we took a JBL 4550 and extended the horn out an additional 8 feet all around under a stage once and it worked great for vibrating the opposite wall, not the dance floor.

sub

[toddalin]

Nothing new. I used to play my keyboards through an Acoustic 270 guitar head with two Acoustic 201 cabinets. Each had two 418Bs and an Atlas horn that was mounted in a cabinet recess that extended the horn flair.

http://acoustic.homeunix.net/twiki/pub/Acoustic/GuitarCabinet201/acoustic_201_2.1.jpg

http://acc.homeunix.net/images/catalogs/1972/page7.jpg

[Allanvh5150]

I do believe that the cutoff of the horn can't be changed, due to the intrinsic loading of the existing horn throat dimensions.

I would have to agree with Edge. The cuttoff for the horn is changed when the throat is made longer.:)

[scott fitlin]

THAT IS MY MAN Shortys, work.

Its a mid/hi horn, application specific, for dance clubs. Pattern control, HORN LOADED PUNCH, etc. We have found, that while there may be more refined speaker designs for consumer use, nothing has the punch, transient response, and impact and immediacy of PROPERLY DESIGNED HORNS!

Seems like only yesterday, 1990, when all the audio peeps were telling everybody to ditch thier old horns, and TODAY? Pro apps, and Club Sound? HORNS ARE BACK!

JUST LOOK AT JBL,s Precision Directivity series, or their Dance Series. Then, a company called Funktion One, English manufacturer, makes FULLY HORN LOADED DANCE CLUB SYSTEMS, Then we have EV,s Dynachord, affectionately known as DYNACRAP! EAW and their Avalon Series!

THEY DO THE JOB, and done properly, they sound smoooooth, too, and realistic, with startling impact.

[louped garouv]

THAT IS MY MAN Shortys, work.

Its a mid/hi horn, application specific, for dance clubs. Pattern control, HORN LOADED PUNCH, etc. We have found, that while there may be more refined speaker designs for consumer use, nothing has the punch, transient response, and impact and immediacy of PROPERLY DESIGNED HORNS!

.

i gave credit
;)


is that open cell foam affixed to the top/bottom of the compression driver outer horn?


thanks

[scott fitlin]

ITS quite similar to TAD,s now discontinued AFAST horn, which has a TUNNEL LIKE filter inside the horns wall. Decreasing resonance, increasing articulation, intelligibilty, and clarity.

Speakers, amps, all audio gear, produce sounds and distortions, that many don't even know are there, TILL they hear something that DOESN'T have these added sounds and distortions.

You have to give Shorty credit, HE HAS his horns for his high ticket dance club systems CUSTOM MADE FOR HIM!

www.systemsbyshorty.com, AND THIS IS THE MAN REDOING MY SOUND AS WELL,
THE SBS MAMMOTH@ELDORADO AUTO SKOOTER
1216 SURF AV
BKLYN,NY
11224
BUMP BUMP BUMP YOUR ASS OFF
:D

[mwaldron]

:offtopic:

I had the PLEASURE of experiencing one of his installs at G+ in Shanghai.

There might be better out there but I haven't experienced it yet.

Kudos to forum member Shorty!

[scott fitlin]

:offtopic:

I had the PLEASURE of experiencing one of his installs at G+ in Shanghai.

There might be better out there but I haven't experienced it yet.

Kudos to forum member Shorty!Ahh, YOU heard G-Spot!

As long as you heard SBS, tell us? HOW WAS IT? :bouncy:

[mwaldron]

:offtopic:

First thing is the club's name is G + (plus)http://www.clubgplus.com/, Calvin Zhou is a close friend of ours. SBS needs to fix their web site with this regard.

I have been to Turnmills, MOS :blah::blah::blah:

I have never experienced the shear "power of presentation" that this venue has. I now know why the term fatigue comes into peoples descriptions. At club volume levels, opening DJ's, headliners, closing DJ's this was the most amazing club sound system that I have been exposed to with absolutely no "fatigue". I spent about 12 hours in this place during my last visit.

My amazement was hearing the various mixes being presented, I found myself thinking, " Yeah it's mixed wrong " but it still sounded accurate, just mis-mixed. If the mids were to high, you heard it clearly, if he forgot to pull the bass in, you heard it, when it was right you heard it and felt it. If you've ever experienced an Open class SQ competition system it was like that, only better (of course without the soundstage and imaging). I felt like you could turn the main level down and thoroughly enjoy any genre of music on it, not just EDM. It reminded me of the staged demo's of ridiculously priced home systems that I have been to. As an avid music listener, amateur system designer, aging clubber my first thought was, "I want to play with this".

It has left the same impression on me as walking into the first "audiophile" demo of 6 panels of electrostatics with a Velodyne sub powered by numerous Sumo's playing Ricky Lee's Magazine from the half speed master back when I was much younger, and I am much more jaded now then I was, but clearly as impressionable.

mw

[Harvey Gerst]

Nothing new. I used to play my keyboards through an Acoustic 270 guitar head with two Acoustic 201 cabinets. Each had two 418Bs and an Atlas horn that was mounted in a cabinet recess that extended the horn flair.

http://acoustic.homeunix.net/twiki/pub/Acoustic/GuitarCabinet201/acoustic_201_2.1.jpg

http://acc.homeunix.net/images/catalogs/1972/page7.jpg
Interesting choice of speakers. I designed those Acoustic speakers, as well as taking the pictures and designing the catalog. My name should be on the back of that catalog, along with my assistant. It is indeed, a small world.

Whoops, I just looked again. I did design the speakers, but the photography was farmed out. That's the catalog that has the Acoustic 910 and the Black Widow guitar - two of my proudest moments.

[scott fitlin]

:offtopic:

First thing is the club's name is G + (plus)http://www.clubgplus.com/, Calvin Zhou is a close friend of ours. SBS needs to fix their web site with this regard.

I have been to Turnmills, MOS :blah::blah::blah:

I have never experienced the shear "power of presentation" that this venue has. I now know why the term fatigue comes into peoples descriptions. At club volume levels, opening DJ's, headliners, closing DJ's this was the most amazing club sound system that I have been exposed to with absolutely no "fatigue". I spent about 12 hours in this place during my last visit.

My amazement was hearing the various mixes being presented, I found myself thinking, " Yeah it's mixed wrong " but it still sounded accurate, just mis-mixed. If the mids were to high, you heard it clearly, if he forgot to pull the bass in, you heard it, when it was right you heard it and felt it. If you've ever experienced an Open class SQ competition system it was like that, only better (of course without the soundstage and imaging). I felt like you could turn the main level down and thoroughly enjoy any genre of music on it, not just EDM. It reminded me of the staged demo's of ridiculously priced home systems that I have been to. As an avid music listener, amateur system designer, aging clubber my first thought was, "I want to play with this".

It has left the same impression on me as walking into the first "audiophile" demo of 6 panels of electrostatics with a Velodyne sub powered by numerous Sumo's playing Ricky Lee's Magazine from the half speed master back when I was much younger, and I am much more jaded now then I was, but clearly as impressionable.

mwWOW!

[toddalin]

Interesting choice of speakers. I designed those Acoustic speakers, as well as taking the pictures and designing the catalog. My name should be on the back of that catalog, along with my assistant. It is indeed, a small world.

Whoops, I just looked again. I did design the speakers, but the photography was farmed out. That's the catalog that has the Acoustic 910 and the Black Widow guitar - two of my proudest moments.

A Phase Linear 400 amp driven by a pair of Tapco 6-channel mixers made short work of the Altecs and Atlas horns rendering all mute (fried) at one gig where I was using them for PA duties in the Sepulveda Basin. :(

Luckily, I purchased them new (at the Guitar Center in Hollywood) with full factory warrantees. Acoustic replaced all the drivers and had them back to me in under a week. ;)

(Our bass player actually worked at Acoustic and used to bring amps home "piece-by-piece." Also, my Moog Satelite was assembled from Moog parts obtained from Thomas Organ Company (where I worked), piece-by-piece. Ahhh, the old days. :hyp:)

BTW, why did you make the 201s so heavy? :p

[grumpy]

... sounds like a Johnny Cash (recorded by) song ... "One piece at a time..." :D

[hmolwitz]

Hey Harvey How is Christine?, I saw a quote in the WSJ from you...
Best
Harry

[Harvey Gerst]

Hey Harvey How is Christine?, I saw a quote in the WSJ from you...
Best
Harry
That was so weird; to get a call from the Wall Street Journal. Here's the article:

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB120578983252543135-lMyQjAxMDI4MDE1ODcxODg5Wj.html

[louped garouv]

Do you think maybe you could have made an honest mistake on what system they have at G+. My understanding is that EAW Avalon sound systems are in both G+ Clubs Xiniadi south block 5f Shanghai & 6f 169 QingchunLu, HangZhou

Perhaps, you have confused G+ with another club called Gspot that SBS did at 4f Lielin building 1 Huai Hai Zhong Lu that closed in January of 2007; it was only opened for 5 months, from what i have read.



here's the club listing for G-Spot,
http://www.smartshanghai.com/venue/2560/Club_G-Spot_shanghai
(the webpage listed for G-Spot on the bottom of this ^^^ listing is 'dead')

and here's the web info for G+
http://www.smartshanghai.com/venue/2466/Club_G_Plus_shanghai

and the G+ website...
www.clubgplus.com (http://www.clubgplus.com/)


maybe a case of a close name....
my problem with New Orleans nightclub history, is that a few of the owners reopened the same named club in several different locations over the course of several decades, so depending on how old the person you are talking to is, could very well determine what location you are talking about..... sometimes it wasn't that easy tho also.... lots of folks continue going to nocturnal daliances late into life there.... so, it's hard to keep track sometimes...


-david



:offtopic:

First thing is the club's name is G + (plus)http://www.clubgplus.com/, Calvin Zhou is a close friend of ours. SBS needs to fix their web site with this regard.

I have been to Turnmills, MOS :blah::blah::blah:

I have never experienced the shear "power of presentation" that this venue has. I now know why the term fatigue comes into peoples descriptions. At club volume levels, opening DJ's, headliners, closing DJ's this was the most amazing club sound system that I have been exposed to with absolutely no "fatigue". I spent about 12 hours in this place during my last visit.

My amazement was hearing the various mixes being presented, I found myself thinking, " Yeah it's mixed wrong " but it still sounded accurate, just mis-mixed. If the mids were to high, you heard it clearly, if he forgot to pull the bass in, you heard it, when it was right you heard it and felt it. If you've ever experienced an Open class SQ competition system it was like that, only better (of course without the soundstage and imaging). I felt like you could turn the main level down and thoroughly enjoy any genre of music on it, not just EDM. It reminded me of the staged demo's of ridiculously priced home systems that I have been to. As an avid music listener, amateur system designer, aging clubber my first thought was, "I want to play with this".

It has left the same impression on me as walking into the first "audiophile" demo of 6 panels of electrostatics with a Velodyne sub powered by numerous Sumo's playing Ricky Lee's Magazine from the half speed master back when I was much younger, and I am much more jaded now then I was, but clearly as impressionable.

mw

[mwaldron]

:banghead:

David appears to be absolutly correct. I was never able to find anybody that had ever heard of G Spot and dismissed it as bad translation (happens alot).

I assumed (my bad) that the EAW systems and the clubs were actually one in the same. Now I'm on a quest as I thought I had expierenced an SBS system and it turns out I haven't. I'll have to find an excuse to get to the Eldorado room.

[louped garouv]

good call!

there are several other rooms that are SBS installations in the nyc area i believe as well...


i'm trying to talk the wife into a trip to NY as well, but it'll probably end up being sometime near Christmas, knowing my luck...

:(

[Charles0322]

:applaud:
:offtopic:

First thing is the club's name is G + (plus)http://www.clubgplus.com/, Calvin Zhou is a close friend of ours. SBS needs to fix their web site with this regard.

I have been to Turnmills, MOS :blah::blah::blah:

I have never experienced the shear "power of presentation" that this venue has. I now know why the term fatigue comes into peoples descriptions. At club volume levels, opening DJ's, headliners, closing DJ's this was the most amazing club sound system that I have been exposed to with absolutely no "fatigue". I spent about 12 hours in this place during my last visit.

My amazement was hearing the various mixes being presented, I found myself thinking, " Yeah it's mixed wrong " but it still sounded accurate, just mis-mixed. If the mids were to high, you heard it clearly, if he forgot to pull the bass in, you heard it, when it was right you heard it and felt it. If you've ever experienced an Open class SQ competition system it was like that, only better (of course without the soundstage and imaging). I felt like you could turn the main level down and thoroughly enjoy any genre of music on it, not just EDM. It reminded me of the staged demo's of ridiculously priced home systems that I have been to. As an avid music listener, amateur system designer, aging clubber my first thought was, "I want to play with this".

It has left the same impression on me as walking into the first "audiophile" demo of 6 panels of electrostatics with a Velodyne sub powered by numerous Sumo's playing Ricky Lee's Magazine from the half speed master back when I was much younger, and I am much more jaded now then I was, but clearly as impressionable.

mw

Thank you for a proper review of that space! I will go one of these days.. I had the pleasure of working with some of Shorty's work at Stereo Montreal. What you say about other types of music is so so true. Low volume or high volume the components are matched superbly well. G+ gets an A+ ;)

[Charles0322]

:banghead:

David appears to be absolutly correct. I was never able to find anybody that had ever heard of G Spot and dismissed it as bad translation (happens alot).

I assumed (my bad) that the EAW systems and the clubs were actually one in the same. Now I'm on a quest as I thought I had expierenced an SBS system and it turns out I haven't. I'll have to find an excuse to get to the Eldorado room.

Excuse!!! bumper cars and crazy sound, you need more:blink:

[scott fitlin]

Excuse!!! bumper cars and crazy sound, you need more:blink:A TAD loaded bumper car ride!

You know I have the fever. BERYLLIphiTUS

:blah:

[scott fitlin]

:banghead:

David appears to be absolutly correct. I was never able to find anybody that had ever heard of G Spot and dismissed it as bad translation (happens alot).

I assumed (my bad) that the EAW systems and the clubs were actually one in the same. Now I'm on a quest as I thought I had expierenced an SBS system and it turns out I haven't. I'll have to find an excuse to get to the Eldorado room.COME TO NY, summer is almost here, Have a Nathans Hot Dog and fries, and come experience THE ELDORADO.

I would love to meet forum members.

The TAD stuff is incredible, different from vintage speakers, but, oh well, my digital music sounds sooo good.

You wont believe Im spinning files out of a laptop using Serrato!