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Dark Knight
03-16-2008, 09:12 AM
Greetings All. I have been contemplating the benefits of a 3-way over a 2-way in terms of potentially greater sound detail. So, I have been searching hi and low for JBL L36s over my current (L46 & 4301B) speakers. I like my 2-ways for sure but my step up to these has left me craving more.

There are a pair of Yamaha NS-A 635 3-ways that at a seem similar to the JBL L36s. How do Yamaha and JBL generally compare?

Best Wishes,

DK

BMWCCA
03-16-2008, 09:44 AM
do Yamaha and JBL generally compare?Only in Gotham City. ;)

I have two-way, three-way, and four-way JBLs. Love 'em all.

Gary L
03-16-2008, 10:43 AM
Just a personal observation here but Yamaha made a couple of outstanding speakers. NS 1000 and NS 2000.

I never compared them to any JBLs but they sure could keep up with many of the big boys we like here and at half the size.

My only real complaint about the Yammies was what do we do when something breaks and there is no replacment parts?

Gary

SEAWOLF97
03-16-2008, 11:24 AM
I restored a pair of NS-690-2's....it is the same speaker as the NS-1000 , but without the BE tweeter but does have a nice wood cabinet and wood baffle. The HF,MF,LF drivers are all cast, making the speakers heavy.
Sound-wise I would call them a Japanese L-100 , very foreward sound , great bass , quality construction , a definate bargain at the going prices.

They will tear up L-36's ...which I've had 3 pair, and find the L-36 less apealing than the 2 way L-26.

Dark Knight
03-16-2008, 11:26 AM
No replacement parts? Wow. I hadn't thought of that. That is important to know. I guess it is worth holding out for the L36s.

Gary L
03-16-2008, 11:55 AM
I was talking about the NS 1000 and NS 2000 speakers which are the only ones I have any experience with. A while back you could still buy direct from Yamaha a berrillium tweeter but they were well over $300 each and I would be very surprised if still available today.

I also know all of my Yamaha amps and pre amps were famous for blowing the light bulbs and Yamaha quit making them. Go try to find a 14.5 Volt 115 MA lamp for a Yamaha Face plate!

Just a personal observation here but JBL and Altec still seem to be the best bang for my bucks and I can usually get either one repaired as long as you buy the higher ends from these companies.

The NS 1000 & 2000 speakers are the "High End" Yamahas and a very fine speaker but only as long as they continue to function properly. Speakers that don't work and can't be easily repaired never sound very good to me.

Gary

SMKSoundPro
03-16-2008, 01:12 PM
I bought a pair of NS-1000 at a pawn shop back in '91, while still working for the JBL PRO shop and were able to A-B them to a fresh reconed pair of L100s.

We agreed that the 1000 was a good bit like a 100, and overall we were impressed. We were using a Yamaha P2002 amp with plenty of gusto. The NS-1000's were comparable.

I mounted these yams in Lisa's Jazzercize club over in the free weight room tied into a b-flat basic receiver for the lifters. Then a tweeter popped and I had a hard time finding a replacement. I don't recall what I used but it must have been something out of the MCM catalog of the day.

Bottom line. The yams went to a dentist to play in his personal workout space, and he still reports that he loves them.

So, when it comes to parts support and pure love of a product, JBL is still the winner in my book. If another pair of NS-1000's came along the pike , I would snatch them up and resell them to an install situation, somewhere. ie. coffee shop, bar, gym...etc.

Scotty.

Gary L
03-16-2008, 01:23 PM
Both of my pairs went down the road too Scotty but it had nothing to do with them not sounding great!

I just saw the writting on the wall and figured it best to cut and run!

Gary

Daytona50
03-17-2008, 08:35 PM
I actually have a pair of L36's that are in nice shape (not perfect) that I would consider selling.

Mr. Widget
03-17-2008, 10:25 PM
I bought a pair of NS-1000 at a pawn shop back in '91, while still working for the JBL PRO shop and were able to A-B them to a fresh reconed pair of L100s.

We agreed that the 1000 was a good bit like a 100, and overall we were impressed.Must have been using some pretty terrible source material if the NS1000's Be tweeter and mid didn't simply out shine that LE5 and paper cone tweeter. :blink: I'm not going to dump on the L100, but up top it is really from the dark ages and those Yamahas were pretty cutting edge.


Widget

SMKSoundPro
03-17-2008, 11:18 PM
Must have been using some pretty terrible source material if the NS1000's Be tweeter and mid didn't simply out shine that LE5 and paper cone tweeter. :blink: I'm not going to dump on the L100, but up top it is really from the dark ages and those Yamahas were pretty cutting edge.


Widget Agreed! We were a JBL Pro dealer and fairly large regional Mom and Pop sound reiforcement company, and were JBL blue...through and through!

Those yams did sound very good, but they just weren't JBL.

L100's are as antiquated as anything using a paper cone tweeter! I have four 4311's mounted on the walls in the main bar area for foregound/background music. A pair of 4312's in each dj booth as monitors, and have a pair of L110a's in my workbench office, and the L200b's in the larger workshop space. They are all playing everyday!

In hindsight, I wouldn't mind a pair of NS-1000's. I would have to hide them behind some grill fabric, or everyone at the bar would give me shit about something NOT being JBL!

I got's a reputation.

scotty.

ps. Anyone want a pair of NS-10m's? Perfect shape. Only used in my office stereo.

Fred Sanford
03-18-2008, 04:31 AM
I got's a reputation.

scotty.

ps. Anyone want a pair of NS-10m's? Perfect shape. Only used in my office stereo.

I sold my 3 NS-10Ms to a friend in PA with a studio...he might want two more for 5.1 mixing, I'll let you know...

je

georgebrooke
03-18-2008, 05:05 AM
Well, chalk and cheese really.
I have a pair of NS1000M speakers. In the time that I have owned them I have gone through L300, L110, 4343 and L100 (and several pairs of ESL speakers too).
The NS1000M runs rings around the JBL in terms of detail and image. The JBL provides presence and the "JBL Punch" that I don't find anywhere else .. which is why I keep coming back to them. Sweet they are not. The Yamahas are not easy for an amplifier to drive (see later), they do have a pretty good WAF, which the 4343s (my current UK JBLs) do not.
I find the JBL a bit full in the bass, while the Yamaha is dry and hard. The mid-high on the Yamaha is really hard to beat at any price. I found the NS1000 model to be very poor compared to the NS1000M... much too boomy!
Spare parts, as far as I know, are available for both JBL and Yamaha, so should not be an issue. The Yamahas are harder to work on.. the JBL seem designed for easy maintenance. The Yamahas are the closest I have come to ESL speaker-quality but with power. They are also beautifully made.

So, here are the plans. I am bi-amping the 4343 speakers. To keep everything on the electronic side relatively simple I am also going to bi-amp the Yamahas (Ian Mackenzie is building me an active crossover to take into account the two different cross-over frequencies and slopes, and I am rebuilding the crossovers of both). I plan to use my current Aleph 5 amp for the mid-highs and a Crown K2 for the bass. For both speakers the bass-amp will directly connect to the corresponding bass driver. My guess is that once I have finished renovating the 4343s the WAF will be really low and they will have to go, leaving me (again) with the Yamahas, but now bi-amped.
If anyone has thoughts on the above strategy I should be grateful to hear them.
I hope the above helped. If you want more deatisl on Yamaha, etc just send me a PM:barf:

Dark Knight
03-18-2008, 02:38 PM
Thank you all for a terrific thread. It was just the type of discussion I was hoping for. I learned a lot. I have considered all the posts very carefully.

I started off with Advent 1002s. It is a really nice little speaker. But, I recently tried the JBL L46s, and my jaw dropped the moment I cranked-up the volume. I got curious about the studio monitor series and got the JBL 4031Bs. I am typing now as Boston is cranked on these baby blues. I must admidt that I am now addicted to "the JBL presence and punch". Georgebrooke, you summed it up nicely. Yet, I am craving the additional detail that might be achieved by going to a better spaeker. My thoughts have now turned towards the potential gain detail with 3-way. The JBL L36s also offer an additional increase in woofer size too. (that can't hurt). A recent thread is very informative here. However, I can't go any larger due to finances and room size.

I have decided now to pass on the Yamahas based on what I have been enjoying so far. I will say that the Yamaha series seems to be priced well and is very tempting. Daytona50, I wish I would have seen your post before I "just" bought a pair of really nice JBL L36s. This will most likely be my last speaker purchase due to funds. Plus, there is simply no more room. I may be looking to sell my L46s just to make room ;)

You guys have been great. I will post my comparisons shortly after they arrive. Thanks.

DK

georgebrooke
03-20-2008, 02:05 PM
Hi,

well if you really want to hear detail, and you don't want head-bashing stuff, the Quad ELS 57, or 63 are really the only choices (the newer models are expensive, bigger and Chinese).
The detail and imaging is honestly unbelievable. I hesitate to mention these speakers in this forum becasue they are everything that JBL are not. Every couple of years or so I have to go and buy another pair to get my "fix"; then I sell them. I have owned around 6 or so pairs of these super speakers.
Don't do anything uuntil you have listened to a pair.. these are the reference speakers for detail and image (but sadly not for power, bass, or that "JBL punch").
Please don't blame me if you switch to the Quad forum :)

SEAWOLF97
03-20-2008, 02:27 PM
Hi,

well if you really want to hear detail, and you don't want head-bashing stuff, the Quad ELS 57, or 63 are really the only choices (the newer models are expensive, bigger and Chinese).:)


I have Janszen ESL's ...incredible image and detail , BUT ..the sweet spot is about 2 inches wide :( ...thats why I'm using Walsh F's for mains , detail and about the biggest sweet spot available.

Mr. Widget
03-20-2008, 07:24 PM
I hesitate to mention these speakers in this forum becasue they are everything that JBL are not.Oh, you mean they sound good. :D

I like Quads, I like them a lot, but for most music they don't have the visceral quality that a horn system can have. I like studio albums, but music recorded live just has a feeling that most studio albums don't and big horn systems further that feeling. Unfortunately so many horn systems are so far from neutral that they can obscure the music too.


Widget

Ian Mackenzie
03-20-2008, 07:40 PM
Hi George,

The president of our local audio club had NS1000s.

They were quite nice but would not take the power, nor delivery like a JBL.

Mind you some people regarded JBL's as dynamics and not much else...I tended to agree until I experienced recent advances in driver technology.

The NS1000's are definately not a party loudspeaker...I recall on guy used to pump them with a big Sansui 919. The bass was lacking for some tastes.

scott fitlin
03-20-2008, 08:25 PM
Oh, you mean they sound good. :D

I like Quads, I like them a lot, but for most music they don't have the visceral quality that a horn system can have. I like studio albums, but music recorded live just has a feeling that most studio albums don't and big horn systems further that feeling. Unfortunately so many horn systems are so far from neutral that they can obscure the music too.


WidgetI agree, many horn systems do exhibit coloration, and other things that can detract from music playback. But, there are also horn systems that are incredibly detailed sounding, and sound accurate, as well.

Now that my full range is TAD, and my tweeters and subs are still JBL, we were listening to America, Horse With No Name, CD album, yesterday, another track on the album, with acoustic guitars, MAN, you hear the pick hit the string, the strum and each of the six guitar strings sound off, every fret buzz, resonance, whatever.

THIS, TO ME, IS why I LOVE Horn systems. The drawback, if there is one, is the EXPENSE of the gear and drivers to reach this level of resolution, but, I LOVE IT ANYWAY!

And, coupled with JBL sub bass, ITS INCREDIBLE!

scott fitlin
03-20-2008, 09:22 PM
But, I also listened to Yamaha NS-10,s on a Yamaha Natural sound amp, nearfield use, and couldn't take abuse, but, punchy little speakers and sounded good.

Gary L
03-21-2008, 04:32 AM
When I first got in to all of this Yamaha stuff I set out to build the entire system.

I had 4 NS 1000M speakers and the exact Yamaha amp pre amp designed to run them MX 1000 and CX 1000.

There was little question the Yamies could produce and handle major power and extreme SPLs. I always felt there was defined accuracy in this system and grew very fond of what Yamaha dubbed the "Natural Sound" system.

Keeping this entire system working and properly lit was a bit of a chore and Yamaha Parts were scarce as hens teeth. Even little things like the 14.5 Volt 115MA lamps were near impossible to get. A berrylium tweeter was still available but at a very high price and no woofers could be found unless you scavenged other speakers.

I firmly believe that my music appreciation lends itself more to what I grew up with and the live performances that I loved. Altec provided the sound at many of the clubs and concerts I attended and model 19s were center stage in my living room since the mid '70s. There was and still is something about the big sound stage presented by large speakers with horns that touches my musical G spot and although I loved the Yamahas the Altecs won the day.

I can say for sure if I had no room for the big Altecs I could easily be satisfied with a nice pair of Yamahas but think I would want the bigger NS 2000s. I also don't feel we can compare the lesser 690s in this mix of great speakers. They are nice but not nearly up to the standards of the NS 1000 or 2000 systems.

JBL fans will always appreciate their brand so it is a very hard choice to make.

Gary

hjames
03-21-2008, 05:19 AM
Guess I've inverted this - as usual ...

I'm a fan of the sound in our living room with the cathedral ceiling ...
Big vintage Yamaha CR2040 receiver running that pair of L200s that I upgraded to 3-ways ... great sound and we NEVER need to crank it more than 1/3 of the way, and usually run it much lower ... 120w/ch seems to do quite fine.
(of course, we have upgraded the CD player to an HK unit since this photo was taken)

Gary L
03-21-2008, 05:31 AM
Very Nice Heather!

I run mine with Sansui G-9000s and remade my model 19 cabinets to fit the room and decore.

Just like you, it never needs to go much past 1/4 on the volume dial with 160 Watts.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/Gamalot/Electronics/TwoGs.jpg

Gary

georgebrooke
03-21-2008, 02:35 PM
OK,
Apart from the Quads and the other speakers I mentioned, I did own a pair of Klipschorns (actually built from a Swiss copy with Fostex drivers). They certainly had the dynamics; my teenage son had the police down at least twice, and to hear Springsteen's version of War was a bit of a shock unless you were ready for it. Apart from the dynamics and the scale of the sound, I really did not enjoy listening to them, at least after a year or so. I sold them to a friend who then emigrated (no connection I am sure). They now reside in Sydney.
Back to the NS1000. I think I agree with Ian about them being a bit bass-shy. Also Mr. Pass has recently confirmed that the Aleph 5 amp that I use was a bit woolly / fluffy in the bass. Hence my interest in bi-amping with the Crown K2. If that doesn't produce the bass (together with Ian's crossover) then I am back to square one, but lighter by several hundred pounds (sterling).;)

Krunchy
03-21-2008, 04:18 PM
Hi Gary, like that Sansui! Do you have any experience w/the Pioneer SX1250 & higher. I ask only because I have been told that the Sansui is a much better sounding unit. I've heard the 1250 and it sounds great if you like that vintage type of sound and so was curious to hear your opinion.
Take care!

paragon
03-22-2008, 09:54 AM
Agree,

My father has a pair of NS 1000. Never heared this great mids and highs again. Awesome speaker for this price ! Bass is very dry.

Ian Mackenzie
03-22-2008, 12:49 PM
I thnk people forget they are a sealed system , not bass reflex.

Gary L
03-22-2008, 01:02 PM
Hi Gary, like that Sansui! Do you have any experience w/the Pioneer SX1250 & higher. I ask only because I have been told that the Sansui is a much better sounding unit. I've heard the 1250 and it sounds great if you like that vintage type of sound and so was curious to hear your opinion.
Take care!

Yes Krunchy, I've had a number of the higher end Pioneers including the SX1250 and the SX1980, also have listened to the bigger Sansui G2200 and G 3300 models and for my money the G 8000 and G 9000s blow them all away as far as great sound. I did have one pioneer, think it was an SX 1010 but don't remember for sure, it was one of the best sounding pioneers I ever owned. I also had a few of the bigger Marantz units and liked the way they sounded over the pioneers. Pioneers to me just seem a bit dry and lifeless.

Gary

SEAWOLF97
03-22-2008, 01:31 PM
My father has a pair of NS 1000. Never heared this great mids and highs again. Awesome speaker for this price ! Bass is very dry.

I believe my NS-690-2's use the same woofer and I've never found them "dry" ...quite punchy, very comparable to L100.


have listened to the bigger Sansui G2200 and G 3300 models and for my money the G 8000 and G 9000s blow them all away as far as great sound. IGary

Gary ...I have a Sansui 9090DB in spectacular condition, case, face like right out of the box , with owners manual. Unfortunately (un ??) I have too many power sources.. Do you know of a group of Sansui lovers (besides ebay) who wud be interested in it ?

brudha
03-23-2008, 04:31 PM
Yes Krunchy, I've had a number of the higher end Pioneers including the SX1250 and the SX1980, also have listened to the bigger Sansui G2200 and G 3300 models and for my money the G 8000 and G 9000s blow them all away as far as great sound.
Gary
Gams,

Are you still trying to justify for not stepping up to the plate with the 5-digit G-series?

Dark Knight
03-23-2008, 04:34 PM
The last few posts really brought a nagging question to the front of my mind in the JBL versus Yamaha discussion. I have noticed that JBL's are ported. I guess that this is the "bass reflex system". What does it add? The Yamahas that I have seen are not ported.

DK

Gary L
03-23-2008, 05:03 PM
Gams,

Are you still trying to justify for not stepping up to the plate with the 5-digit G-series?

No justification necessary! If I felt any of them sounded better then the G 8000 or G 9000 I would probably have a few of them as well!

Even the older 9090DB mentioned above have a nicer sound to my ears.

Seawolf, The last I knew there was a good following of Sansui gear over at AK. The 9090DB is a fine unit and I am sure you could find some interest there. Any member here seeking a nice Vintage receiver would be very satisfied displaying the 9090DB and they are built like tanks with power to spare.

Gary

scott fitlin
03-26-2008, 04:23 AM
Yes Krunchy, I've had a number of the higher end Pioneers including the SX1250 and the SX1980, also have listened to the bigger Sansui G2200 and G 3300 models and for my money the G 8000 and G 9000s blow them all away as far as great sound. I did have one pioneer, think it was an SX 1010 but don't remember for sure, it was one of the best sounding pioneers I ever owned. I also had a few of the bigger Marantz units and liked the way they sounded over the pioneers. Pioneers to me just seem a bit dry and lifeless.

GaryI STILL have my dads first reciever from 1970! A SANSUI EIGHT. Only 50 watts per channel, but that sucker cranks, and sounds cool, and its HEAVY, too. About 40 or 50lbs.

It's an antique, but, I like it, still.
:D

AltecLansingFan
03-28-2008, 12:09 PM
I always loved the Sansui sound, specially the AU111.
When I was 14, I got a pair Altec 409B and a Sansui AU222.
A super sound for that time. I still have the Sansui AU222 just for fun.

almostblue
04-12-2008, 11:26 AM
I have been running Yamaha NS-A635As with my Sansui AU-517 amp and recently tested them against JBL L26s I refoamed. The Yamahas proved more efficient and had better definition with a tighter bass. The JBLs were muddy by comparison. I was a little surprised to say the least. I might ditch the JBLs for some bigger and better Yammies. Do I dare throw good money after bad on bigger and supposedly better JBLs?

SEAWOLF97
04-12-2008, 11:43 AM
Got my Yammys going right now, its all the sound that I could ask for from that size box. LOTS of bass , if asked for, sparkling highs, very foreward.

Rumor is that another pair of Yammys , "with BE tweeter , but NOT NS-1000's" coming my way,,,,,anyone want some L-36's ?

Mr. Widget
04-12-2008, 11:45 AM
I have been running Yamaha NS-A635As with my Sansui AU-517 amp and recently tested them against JBL L26s I refoamed. The Yamahas proved more efficient and had better definition with a tighter bass. The JBLs were muddy by comparison. I was a little surprised to say the least. I might ditch the JBLs for some bigger and better Yammies. Do I dare throw good money after bad on bigger and supposedly better JBLs?Are these like your Yamahas?

The L26 Decade was JBL's entry speaker in it's day. I'd say almost anything from JBL or Yamaha would be a step up.


Widget

JohanR
04-16-2008, 07:45 AM
Yesterday, while leafing through an old heap of HiFi mags I stumbled on something called Yamaha F1 or FX-1 from 1978 that was pretty much a rip off of L300/4333. They where black, like NS1000, but with 15", mid horn with lens and (probably) a horn for the treble. They seemed to use beryllium in the mid/high drivers.

I have tried to find some more info via google but only get answers for motorcycles and some very huge keyboards :banghead:

JohanR

jblfreeek
04-17-2008, 04:26 AM
Oh, Yamaha made some very fine speakers for sure...
Their best is probably the Yamaha GF-1 (http://www.thevintageknob.org/YAMAHA/GF1/GF1.html) from 1991 which received COTY award with a price tag of 70.000$ :blink:


On the original NS-1000 and its many siblings, Beryllium was vapor-deposited on copper blanks ; the copper was then removed by etching.
Beryllium domes on the GF-1 are "forged": the domes are pure Beryllium with a layer of gold for additional damping and anti-corrosion.Btw, I'd LOVE to get my hands on a Yamaha NS-2000 and compare it to my Century Golds....and probably to my 250TI Jubilees as well.

Unfortunately they are rare as hell (thus over-expensive).

dllyons
04-18-2008, 04:51 PM
I tell ya.... the first time I heard NS1000's was at the place I eventually bought my L300's- A place called Swallens in Columbus, Oh. 1978 When I walked in the main showroom, someone was playing some jazz and my immediate response was, what was making that amazing sound ?!?!??! Especially the mid & highs .... It was outstanding upper end reproduction in my opinion !! Come to find out they were NS1000's, and I was impressed. At the time I thought they were too expensive, though. Within a week or two the L300's went on closeout sale for $1100 a pair, and it was over with for the NS1000's.

But, your question about them vs. L100's- overall, I still like the L100's, but the NS1000 top end aint gonna get touched by any of the bookshelf speakers from JBL from that era.

As far as L36's, I have a pair of L36's too, and by golly, if you get them placed correctly in a room, I think they're very good too. Not quite up to an L100, and as I mentioned, doesn't have the top end of an NS1000, but I really like them.

Here's the kicker- as mentioned before, you can still get parts for the JBL's. So, hands down, stick with JBL...... IMHO. :blah:

Gary L
04-18-2008, 05:20 PM
I don't feel it is at all fair to even try to compare a JBL L 100 to a Yamaha NS 1000.

Both are very fine speakers in their own rights but any one here who thinks the L 100 is even close has worse ears then me!

I will almost always love the sound of JBL or Altecs over any Yamahas but the NS 1000 and particularly the NS 2000 are in a class way above the JBL L 100 and that could easily be recorded buy the test equipment many members here rely on.

That is not to say if you love your L 100s you are wrong but there really is no comparison in the accuracy and measurable sound quality between the two.

I used to go to AK a while back until a bunch of guys there agued that their Realistic Mach Ones blew the doors off JBL L 100s & 4311s.:banghead:

Gary

Mr. Widget
04-18-2008, 05:58 PM
I used to go to AK a while back until a bunch of guys there agued that their Realistic Mach Ones blew the doors off JBL L 100s & 4311s.It isn't that I didn't believe you, but the idea that there were people out there who still listened to Mach 1s blew me away... they were considered crap when they were brand new! I had to google them. I found this:

Mr. Widget
04-18-2008, 06:05 PM
...and then I thought, "What the hell? These things must be on eBay. I wonder...?"

Mr. Widget
04-18-2008, 06:12 PM
Oh yeah. JBL vs. Yamaha.

Yamaha like JBL has made a ton of speakers over the years. Most are probably OK. Many JBLs are OK, but most are better than that. That said, the NS1000 and NS2000 have midrange and tweeters in them that are simply among the best ever produced.

Those two Yamahas are truly special, though obviously not as special as a Realistic Mach One. :rotfl:


Widget

Gary L
04-19-2008, 05:56 AM
I'm not one for bashing any speaker because if someone likes them it is perfectly fine with me.

I had a set of Mach Ones and have to admit they were a great Dorm Speaker and capeable of getting very loud.

After I sold the innards on Ebay I was left with the cabinets and no real use for them as speaker boxes.

When I switched my fire place to a coal stove the Mach ones finally found their calling!:applaud:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/Gamalot/Cabinets/DSCN2052.jpg

Gary

Dark Knight
04-21-2008, 03:18 PM
That is just hysterical :-)

DK

cosmos
05-04-2008, 11:56 PM
As an update to this thread, this weekend I hosted one of the member listening rooms at AKFest 2008 in Detroit, MI. One of the main topics and activities in the room was the comarison of my Yamaha NS-1000 versus my JBL 250Ti Limited Edition speakers. (Picture of the room below)

Without taking an deliberate vote, I can tell you that of the hundreds of visitors all but a very few liked the JBLs over the Yamaha's.

In my opinion, and that of many others hearing them in the room, the Yamaha did have a slightly better top end "air" but suffered from a marked lower level in response from 300 Hz. (or so) down.It had decent bass extension, but it was down in level compared to the highs. Other than those two impressions, the speakers really sounded very similar. The Yamaha's are slightly more efficient.

Russellc
05-05-2008, 06:20 AM
Take those L 100s, remove the woofer, put it in a 2.5 to 3.5 cu ft sealed box. Place the econowave on top. Tweek to taste, start serving up smoked Yamahas! ( and most others as well) These things are unbelieveable.:applaud:Want all JBL? remove selenium, add 2425H, ( or 2450 variants if you are flush) tweek compensation, kick Yamaha rear end!

L 100 woofs actually work better in a large sealed box, rather than the boomy smaller ported one. See the econowaveguide thread at AK. See Q and D here, as well as the "babies" thread for more info.;)

Russellc

oznob
05-18-2008, 06:02 PM
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1216316789

I think they're a bit pricey but if you are a true Yammy fan......
And to think, I paid just a bit more for my S3100's!

Mr. Widget
05-18-2008, 07:31 PM
I don't think $1300 would be at all too much if they were in ebony... for black lacquer I'd let them go.


Widget

cosmos
05-19-2008, 07:40 AM
I don't think $1300 would be at all too much if they were in ebony... for black lacquer I'd let them go.


Widget

I would agree 100%. The NS-1000M also has a smaller cabinet than the Ebony NS-1000. The sound is really nice.

rj2077
05-19-2008, 09:37 AM
i paired up the 1000's with twin B-380's, and that is all that was needed to fill the room. i had the yamahas powered by tube monoblocks and the b-380s with a s.s 250 wpc threshold. if anyone wants any, i have both; the ebony 1000's or the 1000m for sale. let me know.

regards

Ryan Choi
07-11-2008, 05:56 AM
I am the original owner of a pair of NS1000Ms and was the second owner of the JBL 4345s. Enjoyed both speakers a great deal.

The NS1000Ms were more accurate and had better imaging qualities. Comments of them lacking bass are not entirely true. Everything depended on the source material. IE if the bass was there, you heard it... if it wasn't there you didn't. Mids and highs were great.

The 4345's were fantastic as well. But bass and mid's had more emphasis. If you wanted to party or listen to some high energy tunes, you could have a lot of fun with these.

Long & Short
NS1000Ms were probably better for critical / technical listening.
Both were fun for parties / home theatre / and listening.
Preference - depended on what I was listening to.

Sources:
Yamaha A-1060 / A-960 / B1 - C2
Yamaha PX-2 with Shure v15 Type IV MR / Yamaha MC-1, MC-5, MC-11

a senior member now has the 4345's

Mr. Widget
07-11-2008, 08:14 AM
The NS1000Ms were more accurate and had better imaging qualities. Comments of them lacking bass are not entirely true. Everything depended on the source material. IE if the bass was there, you heard it... if it wasn't there you didn't.While I never heard both speakers in the same room let alone during the same decade, I bet I'd agree with your imaging and accuracy comments.

As for the bass however, it seems this notion of source dependent bass comes into play whenever a speaker is putting out bass but it is several dB down relative to the midband. Most speakers that are considered to have "good" bass will typically be up a few dB in the lower frequencies relative to the midband when playing in a typical room. If the bass rise is too great they are considered bass heavy and if the rise is nonexistent or slightly negative they are considered bass shy. This area is extremely difficult to pin down as it varies from room to room and even position within the room.

Harman's Revel brand incorporate a boundary compensation switch on the back of the speakers... all of the current crop of Revel floor standing speakers have significant bass output and can get quite over bearing in some room positions. Withe the correct setting of the boundary compensation the speaker's overall sound can be dramatically improved while the sense of deep and powerful bass is preserved.


Widget

jomina
05-05-2009, 05:02 AM
Rather late to the party.
NS1000s are designed for a very specific acoustic environment, that's why they are a sealed box with the "classic" AR 12db rolloff from 100Hz. Put some L100s in *my* tokyo concrete bunker and you would understand immediately why the Yams are the way they are.
If Yamaha built a modern version, I'm sure they'd use DSP to enable trimming to specific acoustic environments, but these speakers are from the 70s and 80s and that simply wasn't an option back then.
The 1000s are excellent speakers. Always have been, and, until someone comes along with some radical new technology, always will be. They have their quirks and won't work in every situation, but when they sing...

pos
05-05-2009, 05:24 AM
Put some L100s in *my* tokyo concrete bunker and you would understand immediately why the Yams are the way they are.
You can plug the port, as Zilch did:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=12036
The 123/2213 really likes sealed boxes.

jomina
05-05-2009, 04:07 PM
You can plug the port, as Zilch did:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=12036
The 123/2213 really likes sealed boxes.
Or I could just stick with the NS1000s, which work very well and require no more than a little care with regard to room choice and setup.

hjames
05-05-2009, 04:51 PM
Or I could just stick with the NS1000s, which work very well and require no more than a little care with regard to room choice and setup.

Or you could hang with the Yamaha Heritage site folks and celebrate your cool sounds with them! Oh, wait - I don't think I've seen a Yamaha Heritage site

(understand that I have 3 vintage Yamaha receivers, CR-400, CR-1020, CR-2020, plus a few other pieces ...)

mike
05-05-2009, 05:34 PM
Or you could hang with the Yamaha Heritage site folks and celebrate your cool sounds with them! Oh, wait - I don't think I've seen a Yamaha Heritage site

(understand that I have 3 vintage Yamaha receivers, CR-400, CR-1020, CR-2020, plus a few other pieces ...)

I don't think any speaker company or audio company has inspired as much fanaticism as JBL; maybe Mcintosh.

Mike

jomina
05-05-2009, 05:48 PM
Or you could hang with the Yamaha Heritage site folks and celebrate your cool sounds with them! Oh, wait - I don't think I've seen a Yamaha Heritage site
FYI the thread title is Yamaha versus JBL.
In certain circumstances, a Yamaha may prove to be a better solution than a JBL. In many other circumstances it will be the other way round. No big deal.
The point I was trying to make is that not all speakers are designed to work the same way or under the same conditions.

hjames
05-05-2009, 06:48 PM
FYI the thread title is Yamaha versus JBL.
In certain circumstances, a Yamaha may prove to be a better solution than a JBL. In many other circumstances it will be the other way round. No big deal.
The point I was trying to make is that not all speakers are designed to work the same way or under the same conditions.

'course not - for one, thats why there are so many different JBL designs - lots of different kinds of sounds!. I think the earlier comment about using a "zilch-plug" on an L100 was another approach to adapting that speaker beyond its normal parameters. I had a pair of them, didn't see (or hear) the fascination, and sold them fairly quick for a nice return, and that helped pay for the ongoing restoration of a pair of big JBLs ...

MikeBrewster77
05-05-2009, 08:11 PM
You certainly could as you seem to be a pretty strong advocate for the Yamaha speakers in your set up. Nonetheless, this is a Lansing heritage site, so it's not surprising that you would receive recommendations on how to adapt a JBL product to your particular environment and tastes. Just consider it an expected bias in a forum of this nature ;).

I'm not disputing the merits of Yamaha products (I'd be hard pressed to since I own some of them) nor would I make a comparison since I've never heard the NS1000's. I am, however, curious Jomina as to what attracted you to this particular site? With JBL speaker stands seemingly representing the extent of your product ownership, I'm interested to know what has drawn you here.

Best,
- Mike


Or I could just stick with the NS1000s, which work very well and require no more than a little care with regard to room choice and setup.


The speaker stands are JBL :applaud:

jomina
05-05-2009, 09:37 PM
this is a Lansing heritage siteFunnily enough, my first post on this site was about a pair of Altec Lansing 604G drivers that I own. No replies to that...
FWIW, I use a pair of 4311s at the office and am responsible for the 20 JBL speakers we have in the meeting installation. I insisted upon these in the face of opposition from the local BOSE Brigade. In addition, I've listened at some length and have always enjoyed the classic 4XXX series as well as 9500s, 9800s, 4331s etc etc.
What interests me about this site is that there are a few very knowledgeable people and quite a lot of good information on here. Big JBLs represent a serious investment of money, space and effort. I'm not interested enough in hi-fi to F**** about forever fiddling with hardware, I want to make the best possible decision - which may be no decision at all. Or not...

MikeBrewster77
05-06-2009, 05:44 AM
Are the Altec drivers in use? What is their application?

So, do I understand that you are evaluating your options with the intent of potentially making a buying decision? Can we sway you over to our side? ;)

P.S., (and completely off topic) have you seen the new LS series for sale in Japan yet?

Best,
- Mike


Funnily enough, my first post on this site was about a pair of Altec Lansing 604G drivers that I own. No replies to that...

Big JBLs represent a serious investment of money, space and effort. I'm not interested enough in hi-fi to F**** about forever fiddling with hardware, I want to make the best possible decision - which may be no decision at all. Or not...

jomina
05-07-2009, 06:24 AM
Are the Altec drivers in use? What is their application? They've been passed on to someone who can make use of them. The drivers were housed in 620 cabs and were used for over 20 years in a corporate screening room.


So, do I understand that you are evaluating your options with the intent of potentially making a buying decision? Can we sway you over to our side? ;)

The side I'm on is the one of getting the best possible sound for a minimum investment of time, effort and money. I am very not married to any specific brand (been there, suffered that).
JBL certainly figures in the equation: I like much of what I've heard.
The usual audiophile rationales don't work for me. However, I am open to rational argument :-)

jomina
05-08-2009, 07:30 AM
P.S., (and completely off topic) have you seen the new LS series for sale in Japan yet?
LS is not so new I think. Not really heard them beyond the show in any case. What Harman Japan are pushing *very* hard right now are the 9900 & new TS series.

MikeBrewster77
05-08-2009, 08:33 AM
LS is not so new I think. Not really heard them beyond the show in any case. What Harman Japan are pushing *very* hard right now are the 9900 & new TS series.

True they're not really new at all, but in relative terms they're "new" to me since I don't think they've ever actually been officially launched in North America. I'd perform criminal acts to be able to audition a pair... :(

Never heard of a TS series until you mentioned it. Googled it, and it looks like it's exclusive to the Japanese market, but from what I can tell, very nice looking speakers that appear to have taken cues from the PT800. I'd happily take a pair of the TS8000's off someone's hands.

You guys get all the goodies ;)

Best,
- Mike

JPitonzo
06-02-2009, 06:44 AM
I've been using JBL 4312C's in a tight space and am ready to make the jump to near field monitors.

Any thought between the Yamaha NS-10M and the JBL Control 5's ... I'm used to the 4312C's so would likely have a natural preference for the speakers sounding the closest to what I have

thanks,

Joe

MikeBrewster77
06-02-2009, 07:27 AM
I've heard the NS-10M's once and not for any length of time so I suppose my comments should be taken with a grain of salt. Then again, even if I had never heard them, I'd be leery of any speaker with a cardboard woofer :p. In all seriousness, the consensus seems to be that while they're pretty robust, even their most avid supporters will admit that they're "so flat" that they're unpleasant to listen to for any length of time. FWIW, I personlly think the flat excuse is BS meant to compensate for an unnatural sounding speaker, but............

On the flip side, I have Control 5's set up with a pretty nice vintage receiver in a secondary (or tertiary, I'm not sure which :p) system in my office, with my PC as the source. Since I often work from home, it's not unusual that I spend 8 hours+ listening to music through this set up in a near field arrangment, and I can honestly say I've never experienced listener fatigue. The Control 5's are voiced a bit mid-range forward (as would be expected given their application) but not to the point that it is annoying. I do find them just a slight bit lacking in bass - though not nearly as lacking as I remember the NS-10M's being. After putting a sub in the office to compensate at the lower levels, I don't notice it at all now.

Hope this helps!

Best,
- Mike

bdahms
11-23-2009, 01:54 AM
I am also going to bi-amp the Yamahas (Ian Mackenzie is building me an active crossover to take into account the two different cross-over frequencies and slopes, and I am rebuilding the crossovers of both). I plan to use my current Aleph 5 amp for the mid-highs and a Crown K2 for the bass. For both speakers the bass-amp will directly connect to the corresponding bass driver.

Any news on this project? Inquiring minds are wondering...