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horndawg
03-12-2008, 02:52 PM
I have read one member's opinion on this forum on the sound of the 2452 comp driver and have seen the measurements which by the way look very good. It seems that in this case listening impressions and measurements are in agreement. What I would like to know if possible is the degree to which the newer 2452h-sl betters the older 2451h.

Also, I would tend to believe that the larger part in any sonic improvement would be borne by a better phase plug design. I can't recall where I read this but it's claimed that the phase plug on the 2452 is straight resembling that of the 2431 & 2435 drivers as opposed to the sort of s-shaped one on the 2451.

Any thoughts you could share on this (theory of mine) and/or more listening impressions would be appreciated.

Cheers
George

Jakob
03-12-2008, 05:50 PM
This is a very interesting question. I would like to ask another one. Do the 2452 and the 2435 share the same hole pattern?

Zilch
03-12-2008, 06:10 PM
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=185313#post185313

horndawg
03-12-2008, 08:45 PM
Zilch,

Great work in those posts, thanks. It was your comments and measurements in these that I was referring to regarding the 2452 as you seem to be the only one thus far with first hand experience with this driver. I just wish you were just a wee bit more forthcoming with your impressions of the driver's sonic performance.;) Especially since you 've had a number of other units through the shop giving you a good perspective from which to compare and contrast. But don't let me twist your arm I would be busy playing with these toys myself if I had em too, instead of writing about em :D

By the way, do you know if I am right about the phase plug design being straight? Just curious about that. Thanks again for your tests and write up, some very interesting stuff indeed.

Zilch
03-13-2008, 03:07 PM
While my initial enthusiasm about these drivers met with a chorus of yawns here, they are now apparently on the "Approved" list.

I don't write much about how stuff sounds to me, because it's so subjective. What I will say is that 2452H-SLs are on just about everything having a 1.5" throat here, and several members have built successful projects using them.

Regarding the phase plug, I only know that there is SOMETHING special about these, and I don't think it's just the diaphragm. The factory curves on PWT are very much different from other 4" drivers.

It'd be good if Techbot could post the engineering specs in Tech Info for the forum's benefit.... :yes:

4313B
03-13-2008, 05:24 PM
While my initial enthusiasm about these drivers met with a chorus of yawns here, they are now apparently on the "Approved" list.It was met with a chorus of yawns because its history was known and there was far more interest in what Consumer was doing. I'm not going to go into the nitty gritty of it because it is irrelevant now. The driver is readily available and its performance is very good for its price point. The waveguides are readily available as well. This simple fact makes both products appealing to the DIY crowd and DIY folks should be able to come up with really nice 2-way systems using these products.
It'd be good if Techbot could post the engineering specs in Tech Info for the forum's benefit.... :yes:I'm sure it will show up at some point. It really isn't all that important. It is a very good driver at its price point and that's about all there is to say about it. Both the 2435 and 2452 are quite nice, certainly leaps and bounds better than any of the legacy compression drivers. And they should be! It's 2008 now.

Mr. Widget
03-13-2008, 09:28 PM
And they should be! It's 2008 now.Dammit! No way!! When did that happen? I have to get out more often.:applaud:


Rip Van Widget

4313B
03-14-2008, 04:24 AM
What I would like to know if possible is the degree to which the newer 2452h-sl betters the older 2451h.Well, I couldn't remember the exact lineage and had to dig out my notes. The answer is, keep your 2451. If you don't already have the 2451 then get the 2452.

Dammit! No way!! When did that happen? I have to get out more often.:applaud:


Rip Van WidgetYou've got TAD's and 476Be's so you're good to go.

scott fitlin
03-14-2008, 05:01 AM
You've got TAD'sIs that TAD stuff any good?

hjames
03-14-2008, 05:13 AM
Is that TAD stuff any good?

Too expensive and not made here - give up on this newfangled "media" stuff!!

If you really want accurate sounds, just get instruments and play the songs yourself!

Maron Horonzakz
03-14-2008, 06:09 AM
TAD too expensive??? Nahhhh.. Cheaper than JBL 476be

4313B
03-14-2008, 08:07 AM
If you really want accurate sounds, just get instruments and play the songs yourself!Or just leave the playing to trained professionals. :)
Is that TAD stuff any good?Yeah, it's good but it has the wrong three letters stamped on it. I've always considered TAD "the enemy" since day one. :rotfl:

Maron Horonzakz
03-14-2008, 08:17 AM
Its always nice to have a topnotch competater to keep the prices UP... TAD and JBL are like the oil companys.. they will use any excuse to raise prices:D

4313B
03-14-2008, 09:02 AM
TAD and JBL are like the oil companys.. Does that mean we are going to start invading other countries and facilitating the execution of their leaders to get raw materials for loudspeakers too?

:blink:

Mr. Widget
03-14-2008, 09:26 AM
Does that mean we are going to start invading other countries and facilitating the execution of their leaders to get raw materials for loudspeakers too?

:blink:Only if they have speakers of mass destruction. :rotfl:


Widget

FWIW: I realize that hundreds of thousands of people's lives have been lost or seriously disrupted on both sides, but making light of this terrible situation is about the best I can do. :(

4313B
03-14-2008, 10:46 AM
Only if they have speakers of mass destruction. :rotfl::rotfl:
FWIW: I realize that hundreds of thousands of people's lives have been lost or seriously disrupted on both sides, but making light of this terrible situation is about the best I can do. :(It makes me ill to think about it.

edgewound
03-14-2008, 10:53 AM
:rotfl:It makes me want to vomit. If there ever was a point where our system of checks and balances completely failed us it would be the last eight years. I realize that we've done alot of heinous things to be ashamed of during our history but this is completely haywire, and for the first time in our history (due to the easy proliferation of information) we are ALL accomplices. :( We allowed it to happen...

I've chosen not to be an accomplice on this....

What does this have to do with this thread?


2452H is an awesome driver, and....all the large format diaphragms....except phenolic will interchange.

4313B
03-14-2008, 11:00 AM
I've chosen not to be an accomplice on this....
A woman who says she lost more $1 million gambling in Atlantic City sues some casinos for $20 million, claiming they should've stopped her compulsive gambling.

People who bought houses they couldn't afford with loans they didn't understand want their lenders to change the terms.

Congress authorizes a war and then tries everything it can think of to get out of it.

Our country gets addicted to oil and then blames OPEC when it doesn't like the price.

These stories prove how personal responsibility has all but vanished in America, and our government is leading the way.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/14/beckfloridamichigan/

What does this have to do with this thread?The comments about JBL being like the oil companies in case you missed it...

JBL is tanking while the oil companies are reaping record profits...
TAD too expensive??? Nahhhh.. Cheaper than JBL 476be

The 476Be had a suggested retail price roughly $1,200 less than the TAD.

edgewound
03-14-2008, 04:52 PM
A woman who says she lost more $1 million gambling in Atlantic City sues some casinos for $20 million, claiming they should've stopped her compulsive gambling.

People who bought houses they couldn't afford with loans they didn't understand want their lenders to change the terms.

Congress authorizes a war and then tries everything it can think of to get out of it.

Our country gets addicted to oil and then blames OPEC when it doesn't like the price.

These stories prove how personal responsibility has all but vanished in America, and our government is leading the way.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/14/beckfloridamichigan/
The comments about JBL being like the oil companies in case you missed it...

JBL is tanking while the oil companies are reaping record profits...

The 476Be had a suggested retail price roughly $1,200 less than the TAD... that's why we ended up buying every last one that was available.


That's funny...I thought this thread had to do with how the 2452HSL sounds.

But I guess we all have differing interpretatons on how things work.

It's all a conspiracy...and we're all accomplices, apparently.

Thanks for quoting me way out of context.....I blame the media.

horndawg
03-14-2008, 05:19 PM
The 476Be had a suggested retail price roughly $1,200 less than the TAD... that's why we ended up buying every last one that was available.
I was almost certain that Mr. Timbers said a while back in this forum that the price for a single 476Be was $3,500.

MSRP for the 4003 is $2,700. If the 476 was $1,200 less than the TAD it would have been priced at $1,500 which is only a couple of hundred dollars more than the 2451. The difference in the prices of the diaphragms alone (between Ti and Be) should be considerably higher than this. What gives?

Maron Horonzakz
03-14-2008, 09:08 PM
Well look at the amplifier companys... They take away the Tone controls.. Take away balance control. Take away Phono stage than charge you 5 times higher price.... They should hang the amp designers.... As far as the high prices of HF drivers... They are not made here any more... But the profit margin is wider. How can JBL compete??? It will come to pass the 476be will eventually be made elswhere.

Maron Horonzakz
03-14-2008, 09:44 PM
Ive allways said if JBL will not support its products with parts (476be phrams) or cones for 1500 woofers,,,, I wont support them. Ill buy TAD instead. ;)

scott fitlin
03-14-2008, 11:59 PM
Too expensive and not made here - give up on this newfangled "media" stuff!!

If you really want accurate sounds, just get instruments and play the songs yourself!


Or just leave the playing to trained professionals. :)Yeah, it's good but it has the wrong three letters stamped on it. I've always considered TAD "the enemy" since day one. :rotfl:You guys really think this?

I don't know, TAD sounds PRETTY SPECTACULAR to ME IN MY PLACE!

SIX 4002,s on 2395,s , which may change to a newer consitent Q horn, powered by a McIntosh 2125, make some of the FINEST MIDRANGE/HF I have ever heard.

My engineer and I had a demo of the the almost finished system tonight, with someone who has a CD book with the most amazing music, MAN the TAD woofers, THAT LOW END, THE PERCUISSIONS, THE VOCALS, ALL THE MUSIC AND SOUNDS!

Musically from A to Z, went from dance music, to Porgy and Bess, to Stevie Wonder, to David sanborn, to techno. Even at low volumes, the resolution is FIERCE and transients have some dynamic snap!

Notes, baby, you hear notes. Vocals are breathy, and I have NEVER heard CD sound like this, at times, I think it,s surpassing vinyl playback! Its pretty good.


:D

scott fitlin
03-15-2008, 12:02 AM
And Widgets subs are OUTSTANDING!

THAT IS JBL, EIGHT JBL 2242,s with 6400 watts of Crown JUICE and THAT DOES KICK AZZZZ!


:bouncy:

KCCT82
03-15-2008, 02:42 AM
Originally Posted by hjames http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=204105#post204105)
Too expensive and not made here - give up on this newfangled "media" stuff!!


Hello, i'm a noob comparing to must of you here (student) but the so. cal dealer told me TAD 4002s are made in the U.S. I have no idea how accurate this is and the dealer might just be talking out of his a$$ so forgive me if I sound really stupid. :p

I did get a pair of 2002s and they are great.


Musically from A to Z, went from dance music, to Porgy and Bess, to Stevie Wonder, to David sanborn, to techno. Even at low volumes, the resolution is FIERCE and transients have some dynamic snap!


Yes, between my dad and I, that about covers every type of music and I agree with your description.

I'm comparing to compression drivers we've played with before, jbl 375, bms 4592 coaxial, altec 288-16k, tannoy...

Probably shouldn't say this here but... once you go TAD you never go back :scold: but when my horns get here I'll see how the 2452H-SL go up against the 2002s.

One more thing, anyone got the connections to a pair of 476Be? Please let me know. To be fair we have to use JBL Be drivers against TAD's Be :D

Regards

richluvsound
03-15-2008, 04:24 AM
once you go TAD you never go back :scold:

:D I haven't heard the 475's , but I have heard the 4003,4001 and now the 2002. I love JBL, always will , but hats off to Tad for a very fine product indeed. Like everything else F--- the hype and try it out for yourself.

I thought the tad drivers were designed by an American anyway ? Is like the CAD technology ? Bill Gates didn't want it so it went on to Japan to become the best invention since toilet tissue !

I doubt GT would slag TAD , even Van Gogh ( as in GO ,not GOFF) :D would have to smile at the realism devoid of SISS , SISS, SISS.

ofocurse Just a humble opinion !


Rich

KCCT82
03-15-2008, 04:30 AM
Japan? That's where people are buying the 1500AL, 435BE, and 045BE. I posted the link above. That's where you can get other finished products like the S4600 from as well.


Thanks, I know my posts don't show it, but I've been here for a few years. There are members who can get this kind of stuff without going through the hassel of buying from Japan. Whether they want to help me out or not is another matter. I'm not accusing you of anything but given the numerous informative posts you have written, it's hard to believe you don't know that the 476Be's are not sold in Japan as seperate parts. Then again, you probably have a lot more important stuff to do than keep track of what they do sell or don't sell in Japan, so thanks again anyway. ;)

From the posts i've been reading, it seems the 476Be will kick a lot of butt. If I can get my hands on 476Be's I would use that as comparison. I kinda see 2435 and 435 as JBL's break through in using Be, then 476 as the "perfected" driver with Be. I think 476 has a very good chance of taking the lead.

Sorry for going off topic

Regards

KCCT82
03-15-2008, 04:53 AM
even Van Gogh ( as in GO ,not GOFF) :D would have to smile at the realism devoid of SISS , SISS, SISS.

When we switched from BMS coaxials to 2002s we thought they were dead, ultra quiet indeed... :blink:

KCCT82
03-15-2008, 05:53 AM
My post was intended to suggest where one might get 476BE's from since I know a pallet of them went to Japan and said pallet didn't remain in the United States. If you can get a pair another way then more power to you. My post was genuine. I have no idea whatsoever if Harman Japan would sell anyone a pair or not. I do know that they recently provided some 044Ti's to another forum member.


Thanks for the info, sorry if I offended you in any way. Now I know THEY DO have 476s! :D



I've heard from four different sources now that the TAD beats it.


Ouch... harsh...


If we had it all to do over I would have to recommend building the best system we could using JBL Professional components.

Kinda like Drew Daniels' system? :hmm: updated to 2407 + 2435 + 2251 + 2268HPL muahhhhahhhahhh

I'll stop now, way off topic, feel free to delete my post :p

Regards

Ian Mackenzie
03-15-2008, 08:46 AM
[.I've heard from four different sources now that the TAD "beats" it.

.[/quote]

Good way of killing an OT discussion.:).

I heard the 2452 (I think b/n jet lag and beers) at Zilch's and I thought it was nice.

It would be (perhaps) useful if there was a tutorial on how best to apply these drivers. I mean I really dont see the point in talking about them unless their application can be likewise supported on the forums.

And this applies to feedback from our friends over in the UK and Europe.

Preferences often start out through mis application and before you know it you have Tad/JBL Cell of worshipers opposing each other because they DKWTFTATA.

There is no substitute for accurate applications engineering.

Any driver will deliver when used correctly.

Over to Giskard, Sub Woofer and Zilch

Ian Mackenzie
03-15-2008, 09:00 AM
once you go TAD you never go back :scold:

:D I haven't heard the 475's , but I have heard the 4003,4001 and now the 2002. I love JBL, always will , but hats off to Tad for a very fine product indeed. Like everything else F--- the hype and try it out for yourself.


Rich

Rich,

Its pleasing to hear some positive up talk about something you've heard. It must have worked first time.

I think Scotty arrived at a similar conclusion when he tried a Byston active crossovers after years of pondering.

I've also heard the 4003 and and I wondered what all the fuss was about....... pity about the way it was setup.

In reference to what I posted earlier I dont give tuppence to the weight of popular opinion among minions.

richluvsound
03-15-2008, 09:33 AM
Ian,

if I had the skills tune a crossover like you and a fews other talents around here I would stayed with JBL driver and made it work !

I took the advice of those that know and it made sense for me to go the way I did. Expensive option at first,but when consider the time it would have taken to redesign the crossover ( that would have to be payed for ) and then the time without the Wive's to please me, it made perfect sense. A PLUG AND PLAY solution to my problems.

That 4003 needs a pro to design the crossover . Considering the 476 Be is held in the same regard by him, I don't know why he didn't go that route and use the vast experience the forum offers to guide him.

Anyway , perhaps we need to get all posts with the TAD word removed and shipped to the TAD vs JBL thread. Either way, its a clash of giants.

Rich

richluvsound
03-15-2008, 10:49 AM
4313b,
I can only compare the drivers I've heard ,
2420,2425, 2435, 2441, 4003, 4001, 2001 and the 2002. For my system the 2002 was it with the resources I had at my disposal. In other words, I was comparing JBL and TAD in this respect.

Besides, you need a hell of a lot of paper clips to keep all those I-pod dock orders tidy on the desk. :D

I guess TAD will have to design an I pod dock to convince some of their pedigree. X

Rich

Ian Mackenzie
03-15-2008, 02:00 PM
Rich,

I appreciate real world realities lead to certain choices and its easy to stand by the principle in words. You had no choice under the circumstances and is was expensive.

I also appreciate we all like to talk about our preferences however in the case of a truely successful outcome there is usually some strong technical backbone to it.

But I think this is the reality many members face.

New stuff is aired and showcased like the 2451/52 about whats new or now available but where's the real substance to applying it? I know Zlich has done a lot of activities with various horns, crossovers and waveguides but we need a more definitive set of guides to known applications that actually work so people can spent their hard earned cash wisely.

Zilch
03-15-2008, 02:40 PM
New stuff is aired and showcased like the 2451/52 about whats new or now available but where's the real substance to applying it? I know Zlich has done a lot of activities with various horns, crossovers and waveguides but we need a more definitive set of guides to known applications that actually work so people can spent their hard earned cash wisely.Well, that's the dilemma, isn't it?

These pro components are used in SR products, basically. Other than LSR, JBL's not even building Studio Monitors anymore. For DIY, it's work with the best of whatever knowledge is available to us and fill in the gaps with whatever competence we can muster.... :yes:

SMKSoundPro
03-15-2008, 02:53 PM
QUESTION:

Are 2452SL 's easy to come by? What is the cost?

Are 2381 horns easy to come by? What's their cost?

L200B might get the big CHOP!!!!


Thanks to the anonymous adviser!!!!!!!



Scotty.

Zilch
03-15-2008, 05:05 PM
Top o' the list @ $94 MSRP:

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Horn%20List/Horn%20Parts%20List.pdf

Gotta drill the flange for the smaller bolt circle.

Haven't looked lately, but Hector in LA was selling 2452H-SLs on eBay, and they were going for about $500 a pair.

I THINK installing "SL" diaphragms in 2452H yields the same result, though I haven't actually done that to verify. :dont-know

subwoof
03-15-2008, 08:03 PM
In the storage room are (4) cabinets I made for a 2002 install that have had a succession of HF combinations - currently there are 2381's and 2450SL ( the earlier generation to the 2452SL ) mounted and I do not think that I will be reusing them in that configuration so MAYBE I could spare 2 horns and drivers.

I bought the horns new thru JBL parts in 2006 and the drivers from an ebay deal in LA that I *think* was the forerunner to hector and the other dealer that both sell the same JBL "B" stock stuff. These were pulled from JBL DMS-1 monitors and I used the 2332 horns in a pile of wedge monitors.

send me a PM...maybe...maybe...

sub

boputnam
03-15-2008, 11:08 PM
You had no choice under the circumstances...I'm sorry - but what were those circumstances? I thought this an entirely elective option? Those 4345's sounded really damned good with their stock 2425's. Now I learnt an eye* was at risk...? :blink:


I also appreciate we all like to talk about our preferences however in the case of a truely successful outcome there is usually some strong technical backbone to it.OK, now we're sane again.

That there, is right.

Preferences are fine, but measurements supporting, or more importantly those which test one's "specifications bias", is another. It is all too easy to convince oneself "this sounds really damned good because it should".

Taking quality measurements and investigating how the listening environment is responding to the system in question, while critically analyzing one's precepts, provides lasting reward.

Whoa - that's heavy. :p

---------

* - apologies and credits to Giskard

Ian Mackenzie
03-16-2008, 01:48 AM
I'm sorry - but what were those circumstances? I thought this an entirely elective option? Those 4345's sounded really damned good with their stock 2425's. Now I learnt an eye* was at risk...? :blink:

OK, now we're sane again.

That there, is right.

Preferences are fine, but measurements supporting, or more importantly those which test one's "specifications bias", is another. It is all too easy to convince oneself "this sounds really damned good because it should".

Taking quality measurements and investigating how the listening environment is responding to the system in question, while critically analyzing one's precepts, provides lasting reward.

Whoa - that's heavy. :p

---------

* - apologies and credits to Giskard

Bo, the answer lay in Rich's earlier post no 32. It was personal and not an elective.

The issue here is the "problem" and the "capability"

cooky1257
03-16-2008, 09:15 AM
Of all the threads in this fine forum am I the only dumbass who can't figure out whats going on on this one?:D
Are these comp drivers the mutts nuts or not?:)

Robh3606
03-16-2008, 09:36 AM
Of all the threads in this fine forum am I the only dumbass who can't figure out whats going on on this one?:D
Are these comp drivers the mutts nuts or not?:)


I think one of the main points is when you go beyond a standard JBL box using different drivers or crossovers you don't get plug and play. There is a lot of engineering in the original designs. To think that you can just pull a one off without the investment in time and tools and get comparable or better performance is kind of foolhardy.

It doesn't matter how good the drivers are if the basic system design is flawed. That's why it always pays to start from an existing design or have a high quality benchmark system to use as a reference. Keeps things real and ultimately saves you both time and money.


Rob:)

cooky1257
03-16-2008, 11:08 AM
I think one of the main points is when you go beyond a standard JBL box using different drivers or crossovers you don't get plug and play. There is a lot of engineering in the original designs. To think that you can just pull a one off without the investment in time and tools and get comparable or better performance is kind of foolhardy.

It doesn't matter how good the drivers are if the basic system design is flawed. That's why it always pays to start from an existing design or have a high quality benchmark system to use as a reference. Keeps things real and ultimately saves you both time and money.


Rob:)

Ah now I get it:applaud:
Ta.

richluvsound
03-16-2008, 11:39 AM
Cooky,

you can make up your own mind with your lugoles :D

Rich

boputnam
03-16-2008, 02:02 PM
Bo, the answer lay in Rich's earlier post no 32. It was personal and not an elective.

The issue here is the "problem" and the "capability"Not corrrect. So...

Let's review because it matters.

The stock 2425 performed wonderfully. The sole issue revolved around the 2435/H9800 horn mod that was tried. It was recognized there were sonic problems with that configuration and that the stock 2425/2307 was superior.

That said, the TD-2002, which bolts right onto the 2307 and has performance characteristics which excell, has been a proven improvement.

So, all things considered, the TD-2002/2307 in this application, exceeds the 2421B/2307 (my experience), the 2425/2307 (my and Rich's experience) and certainly the 2435/H9800.

wrt the latter, again for review purposes, the 2435/H9800 was never contemplated in the crossover design. Therefore, there is no reason this mod should have worked. Simply, there is compensation needed for that combo that is not in the topology of the crossover being used.

It may therefore be "lucky" the TD-2002 slips-in as sonically effortlessly as it does physically (the 2435/H9800 does not fit into the 4345 cabinet and rests atop it).

The TD-2002 works brilliantly. Reports from all who have trialed it, and have reported in, are consistent. But so does the 2425.

This is entirely an elective option - there is nothing wrong or "lacking" in the stock 4345.


...one of the main points is when you go beyond a standard JBL box using different drivers or crossovers you don't get plug and play. There is a lot of engineering in the original designs. To think that you can just pull a one-off without the investment in time and tools and get comparable or better performance is kind of foolhardy. 'zactly... :)

Mr. Widget
03-16-2008, 04:17 PM
It may therefore be "lucky" the TD-2002 slips-in as sonically effortlessly as it does physically...Luck is certainly part of the equation. I was certainly surprised that it worked as well as it did when we first gave it a whirl. I think the main point of "luck" is that the 3145 network uses an L-pad on the mid and that helps the "wrong" driver mate well with the system.


Widget

Ian Mackenzie
03-17-2008, 02:17 AM
Luck is certainly part of the equation. I was certainly surprised that it worked as well as it did when we first gave it a whirl. I think the main point of "luck" is that the 3145 network uses an L-pad on the mid and that helps the "wrong" driver mate well with the system.


Widget

I think there have been difference discussions and observations at difference times.

But in the very last instance Rich tried as he might to use the 2435 be on the short diy cut off horn to improve the overall subjective outcome in the 4345 but it falled despite some changes to the network.

As Rich had no means or on- hand technical assistance to make it work and other alternative uses/projects for the JBL 2435 were sidelined it was dropped out of the equation as a useful driver. I happen to know this because I acquired the driver and the horn as a result. The hand was already on the draw for the 2002 and so he elected to go that way but the 2435 had to go.

Rich in the end was/is after the best possible performance out of his diy 4345 and based on his own observations the ultimate solution was beryllium. As I said earlier its something Rich just wanted to do and requires no further justification to adherance. We all have our reasons.

As Rob states rarely will you find a drop in replacement from an existing design. This is why I raised the issue of driver technical support earlier when the talk of the 2452 comparisons surfaced.

It usually takes more than a nudge to make even great ideas work.

For those reading between the lines when I get a moment I will have a look at those 1.5 inch 2307 conversions but the 2435 is really overkill for that situation and is more deserving of the more recent JBL Consumer horns.

The Tad 2002 is an over the top "icing on the cake" and and very expensive but as I said we all have our reasons.

iMac

Mr. Widget
03-17-2008, 08:14 AM
I think there have been difference discussions and observations at difference times...I have no idea where you are going here, but my comments were with regard to Bo's system.



The Tad 2002 is an over the top "icing on the cake" and and very expensive...And simply having a pair of 4345s in one's living room isn't? :D


Widget

4313B
03-17-2008, 11:27 AM
This is why I raised the issue of driver technical support earlier when the talk of the 2452 comparisons surfaced.To what end? What kind of technical support? Do you want me to bolt one on to a consumer horn or waveguide, take some measurements and plug those measurements into LEAP? Why bother? What is required here?

I'd rather just see those who use the products post their projects. Someone must have bought all these 2452H-SL's off eBay... where'd they all go? Where are all the 2-ways using this c.d.?

richluvsound
03-17-2008, 12:32 PM
And simply having a pair of 4345s in one's living room isn't? :D


Widget

If it came down to it the 4345's would be the last thing to go from the living room (studio) with or without the Tads. For the moment this is the best
sound I have experienced in MY home . Heck, I'm still young and could ,maybe someday, build something better. But, one thing is for sure, I'll ask your opinions first.
You ain't pointed me in the wrong direction yet !

Rich

ps. Anyway, what is the acoustic difference between the 2452 and 2451 ?

Chas
03-17-2008, 12:49 PM
where'd they all go? Where are all the 2-ways using this c.d.?

A couple of 2452H (non SL) ended up here.;)

They will be tried in a 2 way or, maybe a three way with a couple of 2123's (I can't get my head around using a 15" woofer up to around 1Khz - the 4345's have spoiled me!), once my four way modular contraption is completed.

boputnam
03-18-2008, 10:03 AM
...the DIY junk needs to be moved to it's own thread. It now is.

Go here: 2452H-SL in a 2-way

Ian Mackenzie
03-18-2008, 01:57 PM
To what end? What kind of technical support? Do you want me to bolt one on to a consumer horn or waveguide, take some measurements and plug those measurements into LEAP? Why bother? What is required here?

I'd rather just see those who use the products post their projects. Someone must have bought all these 2452H-SL's off eBay... where'd they all go? Where are all the 2-ways using this c.d.?

Sorry I have been quite busy leading up to Easter.

What I thought would be useful and interesting is :

A bio on the 2451/2

Their strengths and limitations, exit geometry.

Key applications as used by JBL

This could be done by comparison with a properly prepared 2440 vs 2451/2...distortion measurements, comparisions of FR on plane wave tube, a horn .

Then apply that to where they might be useful, ie is there a real benefit to putting them in a vintage systems like 4355 or a cloned 4345.

Investigate a real 2 (2 1/2 way ) system using these drivers

Conclusion with networks and passive EQ for Cd or PT horns.

It might be a 12 month project but I think it would add value to the site.

Ian