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Mr. Widget
03-15-2004, 07:05 PM
Rob just posted a library link for the JBL Prima... I had not seen it in the library before so I did some snooping and saw that Don and others have been busy at it again... thanks!!!


So among other treasures I saw this brochure for the JBL Cascade.

http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/home-speakers/1988-cascade.htm

What the hell was that? JBL trying to be Infinity or something? I've never been much of a fan of dome line arrays, but who knows about these? I was pretty much over JBL by 1988, no longer needed the glass top speakers you know;) , so I missed a few models during those years.

Widget

Don McRitchie
03-15-2004, 07:15 PM
The Cascade never made it into production. A prototype was built and it was displayed at the 1988 CES, where this brochure came from. According to GT, they never did get satisfactory performance out of it and it was scrapped.

Another speaker from that era that had a similar fate was the XPL250. This was a 250Ti using the 093 midrange dome. Performance of this system was thought to be exemplary, but changing markets resulted in cancellation of the project. GT has one of the prototypes to this day and considers it an excellent system.

Tomas M
03-19-2004, 08:59 AM
More about PRIMA.......

wsilva
09-22-2004, 10:34 PM
Is any information available about the XPL250 prototypes?
Such as the crossover modifications to accommodate the 093 mids.
Would be interesting to try out on the 250ti's.

"Another speaker from that era that had a similar fate was the XPL250. This was a 250Ti using the 093 midrange dome. Performance of this system was thought to be exemplary, but changing markets resulted in cancellation of the project. GT has one of the prototypes to this day and considers it an excellent system."

4313B
09-24-2004, 08:22 AM
Originally posted by wsilva
Is any information available about the XPL250 prototypes?They were totally custom and were meant to be biamped from the start so there is no LF network. The 093Ti (and 046Ti) pretty much demand a stepped baffle such as found in the XPL series. The angle of the sloped baffle of the L250/250Ti was sufficient to place the 093Ti on that baffle plane. A 3-inch VC 8-inch transducer (112H/2108H) was used in place of the 2-inch VC 108H (2118H with aquaplas) used in the L250 and 250Ti. A special UHF network was also used. Additional information might be forthcoming providing the documents can be found.

I'm currently working on a hybrid design like this using the LE14H-1, 112H, 093Ti and 046Ti along with the stepped baffle instead of the sloped baffle. I've decided to make the system modular so I can swap out the LE14H-1 subs with 1500SUB subs, etc., as desired.

4313B
10-20-2004, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by wsilva
Is any information available about the XPL250 prototypes?Here is a photo of the prototype courtesy of JBL.
I'll try to post the network schematic tonight.

Robh3606
10-20-2004, 12:09 PM
Nice!!!

So that's the mystery speaker! Is that an 046ti up top??? Network would be great!

Rob:)

Don C
10-20-2004, 12:13 PM
The tweeter looks like an 035Tia to me.

4313B
10-20-2004, 12:25 PM
Network

Robh3606
10-20-2004, 12:44 PM
Thanks!!! Now if I try to build these?? My wife:scold: will get the comminment papers for sure :screwy:

Rob:rotfl:

Don C
10-20-2004, 03:22 PM
Where would you get an 036Ti tweeter? Or an LE-109 woofer?

Robh3606
10-20-2004, 03:40 PM
"Where would you get an 036Ti tweeter? Or an LE-109 woofer?"

Don't know! If I waited to get all the right drivers to build my XPL 200's I would have packed it in for sure. Take the closest drivers and give it a whirl. Figure an 035ti or 046ti and a 112H. The 109 designation could be because it has a black frame. Am I serious about building it?? Probably not.:( But if the right things fall into place like I can get a pair of LE-14H's and 112'S on the cheap off E-Bay:dancin: Yeah I would try. Why not?? If it doesn't work what's the worst that can happen??? With that driver set how bad could it be???? Half the fun is building it anyway so no loss.


Rob:)

wsilva
10-20-2004, 08:37 PM
Giskard
Excellent job on digging up the picture and crossover info. !!!!!
I really might consider trying this out, always thought it would be neat to run the 093 mid in my L250's.
Thanks again for the info.

pasadena
10-28-2004, 08:16 PM
Giskard,

If one would buy a pair of 250Ti's and modified them to become like the XPL250 prototypes, could they be hooked up with the DX-1's? If so, what modifications to the LF and HF cards would be required? Would the DX-1's be useful in this scenario? I would be talking about using a pair of DX-1's in this case.

The thought of converting a pair of 250TI's into XPL250's seems a rather interesting project, especially if DX-1's can be used.

Cheers
Pasadena

4313B
10-29-2004, 05:01 AM
"could they be hooked up with the DX-1's?"

Definitely.

"If so, what modifications to the LF and HF cards would be required?"

Changing out some resistors and capacitors.

4313B
04-14-2006, 05:34 PM
Here's another picture of the XPL-250 that I shot in a hurry.

The LE109 really is a one-off. Greg thought he used a "half-weight" 112H/2108H type cone and then made up the difference with aquaplas.

The 095Ti here is coated with aquaplas.

"If it's metal, coat it."

Substrate is irrelevent with respect to the question of "should I or shouldn't I coat it?".
Al, Ti, Be - coat it with aquaplas. It takes the "zing" out.

Very recently I noticed that statement had been amended.

"If it moves, coat it."

The 095Ti and 046Ti are a very difficult components to work with. They are very forward and the staggered baffles in the XPL Series are a must.
The L250/250Ti/XPL250 baffle also "works" due to the slope.

johnaec
04-14-2006, 05:40 PM
Here's another picture of the XPL-250 that I shot in a hurry.Now that driver combination is beautiful!

John

4313B
04-14-2006, 05:51 PM
I actually have two versions and I patterned neither after the XPL Series or L250/250Ti/XPL-250.

One version is a knock-off of the 4315 style because I couldn't help myself (Besides I had to use up the can of JBL Blue Bo so graciously sent me).
121H, 112H, 093Ti aquaplased, 046Ti aquaplased. Bi-amp only.

The other version is a minimal baffle, staggered version.
The 093Ti and 046Ti enclosure is slightly wider than their frames.
The 112H enclosure is slightly wider than it's frame.
112H, 093Ti aquaplased, 046Ti aquaplased. Bi-amp only.

DavidF
04-14-2006, 07:59 PM
"....Here's another picture of the XPL-250 that I shot in a hurry...The L250/250Ti/XPL250 baffle also "works" due to the slope."

Can you tell me if the enclosure is essentially the same as the L250 et al in terms of overall dimensions? The enclosure in the photo seems to follow a European market model, at least in terms of the beveled edges. May well be an illusion but the enclosure above seems smaller.

DavidF

4313B
04-14-2006, 08:03 PM
It's an illusion. They are full blown L250/250Ti sized enclosures.

Don C
04-14-2006, 11:29 PM
Aquaplased 093Tis, interesting idea. Wonder how they would sound in XPLs. Are you applying it yourself?

4313B
04-15-2006, 05:31 AM
Aquaplased 093Tis, interesting idea.

They are rather unique, like Greg's LE109's.

Wonder how they would sound in XPLs.

I've never tried them in a stock XPL system so I can't say.

cosmos
05-08-2008, 09:24 AM
Aquaplased 093Tis, interesting idea.

They are rather unique, like Greg's LE109's.

Wonder how they would sound in XPLs.

I've never tried them in a stock XPL system so I can't say.

In reviewing this old thread a couple questions come to mind:

1. Did anyone build a XPL-250 clone or update a 250Ti with 093/095Ti and 046Ti drivers?

2. Is Aquaplas a simple coating? Does anyone know what it is and how it is applied? If simply coating a metal dome improves it's performance and lessens it's distortion and "ring", then isn't it something worth trying on say a 035-TiA?

grumpy
05-08-2008, 09:39 AM
http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=18569

There's a lot on the topic here if you search a bit...


then isn't it something worth trying on say a 035-TiA?

someone else thought so:

http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=151651&postcount=30

JBL 4645
05-08-2008, 06:31 PM
So is it an LP storage box holder :dont-knowor in my case a Laserdisc storage box with JBL logo on the front, cool I’d like several for my Laserdisc collection.:D

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=2228&stc=1&d=1079711986

grumpy
05-08-2008, 06:48 PM
uh... that was random.

hjames
05-08-2008, 06:52 PM
The picture shows the speaker on top (kind of an L26 if memory serves) sitting on top of a matching cabinet shown holding LPs ...

Seawolf found one of the speakers recently at his local thrift warehouse ... http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=20028

Library info is here - http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/specs/home-speakers/1972-l25/page04.jpg
and look here - http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/specs/home-speakers/1972-l25/page05.jpg



So is it an LP storage box holder :dont-knowor in my case a Laserdisc storage box with JBL logo on the front, cool I’d like several for my Laserdisc collection.:D

hjames
05-08-2008, 06:53 PM
uh... that was random.
Nope - Its ANCIENT, but check the first post of this thread ...

grumpy
05-08-2008, 06:58 PM
:D heh, OK, ... interesting sequence then.

cosmos
07-29-2008, 05:27 PM
Ok, the XPL-250 looks interesting.. but what if one were to use a 2245H, 2204H, 096Ti and a 035Ti?

Or perhaps better a 2245H, 2204H, Mid and Tweeter from a Yamaha NS-1000?

Maybe best of all and 2245H, 2204H and a BMS 4590 ?

Seems to me that any of the above would be a nice combination of drivers.

Recently, I came into some 2245H and am contemplating such a system. I sure could use ideas...

rj2077
08-06-2008, 07:34 PM
i too, have contemplated on using an ns1000 tweeter on my L-250's to see what that sounded like? that is one great tweeter.

regards

pos
10-09-2013, 12:48 PM
Sorry to revive this old thread :)


The LE109 really is a one-off. Greg thought he used a "half-weight" 112H/2108H type cone and then made up the difference with aquaplas.
"half-weight" 112H, does that mean that a mass ring was remove in the orinal kit? (I did not know that driver had a mass ring).
Is the final MMS identical?

Robh3606
10-09-2013, 03:33 PM
Hello Pos

The last round of cone kits were smooth, no ribs. If you measure the FS your are about 20Hz high. You could always take a pair of these for starters and add mass until you get an FS match to the original cone. Or of course just try them as is, they look just like miniature 2122's. Your not going to miss the LF response anyway in a 4 way.

Rob:)

macaroonie
10-09-2013, 03:44 PM
Getting into 2250j territory here perhaps / Different motor and impedence hey we're amongst friends.
Didn't that guy in LA have these a lot for cheap out of vertecs ?

pos
10-09-2013, 04:16 PM
The LE109 seems to have the original ribbed cone: http://test.audioheritage.org/Images/jbl/photos/home-speakers/XPL-250_e.jpg

I have a pair or 112H with original cones that will need new surrounds and spiders. If there is a mass ring in there it will get removed for sure, as I will run it active anyway, and adding mass for the mass (ie without any stiffness or damping benefit like aquaplas would bring) has no interest in this situation and would only force those "tiny" underhung VC to dissipate more heat...

But frankly I doubt there is a mass ring in there, so that "half weight" 112H cone in the LE109 has me curious...

4313B
10-10-2013, 10:27 AM
No mass rings were used in the 112A/H or 2108A/H.

pos
10-10-2013, 01:59 PM
Thanks

ivica
10-15-2013, 02:10 AM
The LE109 seems to have the original ribbed cone: http://test.audioheritage.org/Images/jbl/photos/home-speakers/XPL-250_e.jpg

I have a pair or 112H with original cones that will need new surrounds and spiders. If there is a mass ring in there it will get removed for sure, as I will run it active anyway, and adding mass for the mass (ie without any stiffness or damping benefit like aquaplas would bring) has no interest in this situation and would only force those "tiny" underhung VC to dissipate more heat...

But frankly I doubt there is a mass ring in there, so that "half weight" 112H cone in the LE109 has me curious...

Just as an info

martin_wu99
10-15-2013, 06:17 AM
Just as an info
Very professional:applaud:

4313B
10-15-2013, 06:54 AM
Very professional:applaud:Thanks! :)

Yeah, I posted alot of that kind of thing years ago. I think alot of it was lost between the various versions of the forum.

BMWCCA
10-15-2013, 07:11 AM
Thanks! :)

Yeah, I posted alot of that kind of thing years ago. I think alot of it was lost between the various versions of the forum.

Might there be a way to combine them all within the Technical Reference forum? Or are they hidden in there already?? :dont-know:

ivica
10-16-2013, 04:14 AM
Might there be a way to combine them all within the Technical Reference forum? Or are they hidden in there already?? :dont-know:

That is VERY GOOD suggestion.

Ivica