What the H is going on with JBL's product line?

[kenratboy]

Basically, they have some very nice, but hugely expensive and hard to find hi-end stuff that just seems 'stale' - and on the other hand, there is the Northridge E series stuff, and the cheap in-wall, HTiB, etc. that no one seems to buy or care about?

Are they going to be releasing anything new, or redoing their product line?

It is depressing to see they are not doing much of anything. It seems a company like JBL could do whatever they wanted as far as tapping new markets and keeping some excitement in their products.

At least Klipsch has some wicked stuff that will be released soon. The new THX system (it will be released) and the new flagship Reference speakers (makes the RF-7's look like Bose :D ) - and the fact the Synergy and Reference lines are great to begin with.

[4313B]

"It is depressing to see they are not doing much of anything."

The JBL Consumer division appears to be quite busy overseas. My impression is that most, if not all, of their resources are targeted there.

[kenratboy]

You think we will see some of those efforts trickle over here?

It doesn't matter WHERE they spend the money - if they develop a product for Japan, and think they can sell it here, thats more money for them and little or no R&D (less a possible X-over design - don't Japanese like subtle bass and higher highs?)

[4313B]

"You think we will see some of those efforts trickle over here?"

It could happen if JBL ever decides to rebuild it's U.S. based Dealer network. From what I've heard it's a shadow of it's former self. I don't think much infrastructure is left to handle anything currently. That's my perception, I could be wrong.

[kenratboy]

The thing with JBL is they are a HUGE company - and they could do stuff to make dealers want to carry their stuff, and I don't know what other companies do, but send 'free' floor models, make sure everything the dealer stocks in on commision (no cost for the dealer other than the space taken up), fancy posters, banners, brocures, etc. You get the idea.

I just hate JBL in its current state.

[4313B]

"I just hate JBL in its current state."

I hate the entire planet in its current state.
I greatly preferred it back in One Million Years B.C. when Rachel was running around ... Oh wait! Wrong forum... :slink:

[kenratboy]

Originally posted by Giskard
"I just hate JBL in its current state."

I hate the entire planet in its current state.
I greatly preferred it back in One Million Years B.C. when Rachel was running around ... Oh wait! Wrong forum... :slink:

I hate people, so I guess we think the same :p

[Hofmannhp]

[i]Originally posted by kenratboy [/B]

Hi kenratboy, hi Giskard,

a deepgoing thread here....

Maybe we should think about to discuss this point in a special thread, called "future JBL product lines". Can be a zero-cost effective marketing help for JBL.

Also for my opinion there a "hole" in the actual product line between "Northridge" and "K2" series......but where are the buyers?
The sucess of this forum depends on the vintage systems based on very fine pro speaker systems, which can easily put together like DIY kits for different usage.
I believe that there also is a market for a 1,000$ to 3,000$ (per) speaker system, like the older studio monitor lines. This only works when long time fabricated pro series speakers find their place.

HP

[Hofmannhp]

Hi All ,

is there any knowledge of how JBL staff participates from this forum......and with what kind of feedback?

HP

[4313B]

Originally posted by kenratboy
I hate people, so I guess we think the same :p Well, there is a whole worldwide industry devoted to that kind of thinking so you shouldn't have too much trouble finding work :rotfl:

Anyway, this thread went to hell in a hurry :rolleyes:

[Charley Rummel]

I believe JBL is succumbing to brand management tactics, and I think Harmon International's objective is to position JBL in a way such that they minimize competition with other brands within the Harmon domain that are proven profitable in their eyes.

Also, I'm sure Harmon knows that if they ever unload JBL (Like I wish they would), once out from under their control, JBL could prove to be a worthy nemesis to their remaining brands.

Regards,
Charley

[MJC]

Originally posted by Giskard
"You think we will see some of those efforts trickle over here?"

It could happen if JBL ever decides to rebuild it's U.S. based Dealer network. From what I've heard it's a shadow of it's former self. I don't think much infrastructure is left to handle anything currently. That's my perception, I could be wrong.

What I've heard from local high-end dealers around here(Reno), and there aren't that many, "screw me once, shame on you-screw me twice, shame on me." So they don't want to deal with JBL.
In the '60's and '70's JBL was only sold in hifi shops, and then in Circuit City, and now in Best Buy(I like to call it best crap). The small dealer can not compete in price with the likes of Best Buy.
One of the local dealers used to sell Citation and they would have carried the Synthesis except JBL wanted them to also carry the low end stuff. So they said forget it.
This situation is like Home Depot and Lowes. They come into town, which causes the good local hardware stores to go out of business because they can't compete in price. BUT, Home Depot and Lowes don't carry alot of the tools and other things I could buy in the local stores.
Bigger is not always better, when I wanted to buy a HDTV I went to a local store in Carson City, because they had the tv I wanted and would burn it in with a dvd and then calabrate it in their store before they delivered it to the house. You won't get that service from Best Buy. But a lot of people only are willing to look at price.
Of coarse there is Synthesis part of JBL and as we know, all the new lines that have just come out are there, Performance Series, K2, and the HT setup just shown at the CES. But here in Western Nevada(a no mans land in electronics) :mad: the only dealer in the state for those lines is in Las Vegas and they don't have a show room. And from what I've been told, there are no dealers in No. Cal. that have any of those lines on display either. No show rooms means lower over head.
So it would seem, the only way JBL could rebuild their dealer base is to pull their business from Best Buy and only go with real hifi shops.:help:

[kenratboy]

MJC:

I am sure they could rebuild their dealer network, but they would probably have to give the dealers some sweet incentives to do so.

Same story with Klipsch?

How is HT Electronics in Sparks? I have not been there yet? Are they going to get pissy if a 19 year old college kid shows up on a quiet weekday to look around? Should I call?

[MJC]

Just go in there, I was in HT Electronics a couple of days ago checking out their pre/pros. One of the guys there, John, worked at Entertainment Designs a few years ago.

[Alex Lancaster]

Harman is leaving a huge hole between the E´s and the TiK´s for everybody else to get into; Seems the S312 and S412 are NLA, and IMO, they are decent home speakers; Maybe they will be pushing Infinity in that segment?.

[JuniorJBL]

As it looks to me JBL is mostly concerned with it's pro products. Harman seems to have JBL home and car going just where they want them in the US. As it has been said on this forum before people overseas are willing to pay the "BIG BUCKS" for JBL. The current market in the US is best buy or nose bleed hi-end (you to can have a pair of $120.000.00 speakers). People these days buy what others tell them to buy not what sounds best to thier ears. And then we have the dealer problem as well.
But one thing I want to say in JBLs defense is the LSR series of monitors sound AWESOME!!!!
Just a thought.....
Shane:D

[kenratboy]

Originally posted by MJC
Just go in there, I was in HT Electronics a couple of days ago checking out their pre/pros. One of the guys there, John, worked at Entertainment Designs a few years ago.

Cool, sounds like a plan - I am looking for a new receiver/pre amp/amp anyway.

[TimG]

http://gearmedia.ign.com/gear/image/ces2004_klipsch_concept_big.jpg

[pangea]

Originally posted by Giskard


I hate the entire planet in its current state.
I greatly preferred it back in One Million Years B.C. when Rachel was running around ... Oh wait! Wrong forum... :slink:

Hey... looks like we have a thing or two in common!!! :cheers:

I don't hate people, I just hate the way we interact. :bash:

BR
Roland

[kenratboy]

TimG:

Yes, those will be like the new Paradigm Signature Series I guess - or at the least, a RF-9 :D

Klipsch also has a bitchin THX II system on the way (just a matter of time, Trey on the Klipsch forum says soon), along with what looks to be a hi-end HTiB system.

I think Klipsch is doing quite well.

[Charley Rummel]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MJC
"What I've heard from local high-end dealers around here(Reno), and there aren't that many, "screw me once, shame on you-screw me twice, shame on me." So they don't want to deal with JBL.
In the '60's and '70's JBL was only sold in hifi shops, and then in Circuit City, and now in Best Buy(I like to call it best crap). The small dealer can not compete in price with the likes of Best Buy.
One of the local dealers used to sell Citation and they would have carried the Synthesis except JBL wanted them to also carry the low end stuff. So they said forget it."

I've heard the same from a handful of dealers in the Chicago area over the years. Did it all start tumbling down when Beatrice first got their hands on JBL?

Regards,
Charley

[scott fitlin]

Back in the 60,s and 70,s JBL was NOT mass market, low end merchandise. JBL was only available at good Hi-Fi and Pro audio stores. And JBL wasnt inexpensive either. But, JBL had a sound!

As for the JBL product sold in places like Circuit City and Best Buys, JBL didnt used to make low end stuff like that either! I guess corporate marketing gurus figured if they made an inexpensive product, and put the JBL logo on it, they could sell tons of low priced units!

As I see it, JBL shot themselves in the foot, because, people who used to purchase speakers like JBL L-300,s KNEW they were buying expensive, great sounding speakers, that werent available just anywhere, and had a certain " Elite " status! The speaker to have, today, that both sound good, although different from the classic JBL sound, and has that elite status are B & W 801,s!

Most importantly, JBL, back then through the 80,s had a very desirable sound. Those items made by JBL were the best sounding examples of their genre. But, JBL today concentrates on goods for the touring and concert industry, car audio, and low end mass market goods. They just arent making high end premium home speakers or studio monitoring systems! The studio monitor market is now dominated by companies like Dynaudio and Genelec!

What I cant understand is how JBL marketing execs can say they dont make expensive studio monitor systems because they wont sell, when I see Genelec and Dynaudio systems in Studios that cost a fortune! If a studio is willing to spend $50,000 on a pair of top-of-the line Genelec monitors, why wouldnt they spend money on JBL monitor system IF it was the best sounding?

My opinion is that JBL actually hurt their image when they put the JBL name in sales outlets like Circuit City! When I shop for Audio, I never go to circuit city as they dont carry the level of gear Im looking for.

As for JBL,s current pro stuff, they are offering high technology goods, but for whatever reason, the sound isnt quite what Im looking for.

I really think Harman, which has purchased many of the legendary names in both consumer and pro audio, markets the products like a chain supermarket. Lets take Crown for example, which is now a Harman owned company. When did you ever see Crown amps available in catalogs like Parts Express? No disrespect to P.E., but Crown also was a brand of application engineered products that was only available at select profesional audio outlets! And Crown, under the tuteledge of Harman International, has now also brought to market several lines of inexpensive amplifiers that I dont feel are worthy of the Crown name!

Jus my .02 cents!

[Alex Lancaster]

When JBL came out with the "Radiance" series they told me they were crap and stay away, the insiders hated the change in direction, but I bet Harman is laughing all the way to the bank.

[kenratboy]

Well, anything with a cone tweeter (less things that Davis makes, and other hybird drivers) is total crap. Considering you can have a 1" dome tweeter for $10, and probably $3 at the OEM level, you know there is a problem when speakers don't have domes, horns, etc.

[Hofmannhp]

Originally posted by scott fitlin

I really think Harman, which has purchased many of the legendary names in both consumer and pro audio, markets the products like a chain supermarket. ...................... And Crown, under the tuteledge of Harman International, has now also brought to market several lines of inexpensive amplifiers that I dont feel are worthy of the Crown name!

Jus my .02 cents!

you met the point:thmbsup:

HP

[kenratboy]

Originally posted by Hofmannhp
you met the point:thmbsup:

HP

But Crown is still making good gear! As long as the cheap stuff is not trash (as in, it is reliable and as good or better than same-priced amps), it is fine.

It's like Klipsch. Yes, that have the Synergy gear at Best Blow, but Klipsch makes the Reference line, Heritage line, and they have a THX system on the way, and some really cool flagship tower. Sure, the Synergy gear isn't as good as the Reference or Heritage line, but it is NOT cheap junk, and for the price, it is very good. ANything wrong with that?

[Alex Lancaster]

Anything wrong?, yeah they´re K.....:die: :die:

[kenratboy]

Huh! You don't like Klipsch, well take THIS:

http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/products/2001/018/h018LS35B-F_MT.jpeg

[4313B]

Originally posted by Alex Lancaster
When JBL came out with the "Radiance" series they told me they were crap and stay away, the insiders hated the change in direction, but I bet Harman is laughing all the way to the bank. The writing on the wall became apparent to me when I pulled my first blown 125A/127A... it was a big shock after dealing with LE10A's for years. The Radiance Series takes the cake for me as the all time "worst effort" though.

The 2242H and 1500 SUB are examples of JBL "still having what it takes" :)

[kenratboy]

Also, they are using beryllium in their pro tweeters and the K2 line! That stuff is so very expensive (JM Labs Utopia Be line - Wilson Audio killers :D ) JBL has the tools, capitol, good taste, etc. to do what they want, but it is all about selling it.

Maybe JBL should send one of these (http://www.harryanddavid.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prmenbr=201&category_sel=517&prrfnbr=125900) to all the dealers and see if they can rekindle old ties. The closest thing to legal crack.

[scott fitlin]

Originally posted by kenratboy
But Crown is still making good gear! As long as the cheap stuff is not trash (as in, it is reliable and as good or better than same-priced amps), it is fine.

It's like Klipsch. Yes, that have the Synergy gear at Best Blow, but Klipsch makes the Reference line, Heritage line, and they have a THX system on the way, and some really cool flagship tower. Sure, the Synergy gear isn't as good as the Reference or Heritage line, but it is NOT cheap junk, and for the price, it is very good. ANything wrong with that? Well, Ill tell ya what! Crown does still make good sounding amps. The Macro, Micro tech line, and K series is decent. The Studio reference is good. BUT, the CE series isnt all that great! They break! The knobs break off, the amps crap out. The service center I use for my electronic repairs have CE,s in all the time for service, and they hate the amps! That surface mount technolgy is almost impossible to work on, and the amps are NOT the most reliable either. Granted you can purchase 660wpc of Crown CE power for under $700, but these amps are not workhorse amps like Ive come to expect from Crown! Matter of fact, the whole reason they came up with the CE series was to compete with QSC and their USA line of amps. They saw QSC selling alot of amplifiers and wanted a slice of those sales!

[kenratboy]

So what is the best 'cheap' NEW pro amp? Cheap is up to you (as in, least amount of cash to get something acceptable)

[Robh3606]

Why buy new??? You can get great used amps off Ebay. Just got another Crown PS-200 for $128 delivered. How can you beat that?? So OK they are not mega watts and don't do less than 4 ohms but strapped you got 325 watts of clean power in an amp with real balls that you can run all day without a fan.

Rob:)

[Hofmannhp]

Originally posted by kenratboy
Huh! You don't like Klipsch, well take THIS:

http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/products/2001/018/h018LS35B-F_MT.jpeg

Hi Ken,

the pic shows the radio clock from my bedroom desk:D

HP

[4313B]

"Who's on First?

Why do so many innovative products appear in Japan first?

"Japanese consumers are serious technophiles and like to buy gadgets," explains Roger Kay, vice president of client computing for IDC, a market research firm. Also, Japanese consumers have an even more important trait, according to Kay: "They are far less price-sensitive than U.S. buyers." As a result, Asian manufacturers have more leeway to build well-designed or miniaturized products. "U.S. buyers are more no-nonsense. They want the best deal, the best product for the buck. That attitude tends to stifle innovation here. No one is interested in taking a risk on technology because there's [often] no payoff," Kay says.""

http://msn.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,114029,00.asp

[Alex Lancaster]

"U.S. buyers are more no-nonsense. They want the best deal"

To say nothing of the cat, oops, I mean Us Mexicans.