E145-8 vs. 2235

[BigT]

I am in the process of collecting parts for a speaker project. My goal is very high efficiency and accuracy in a home (movies and music) environment. My original intent was to go with a pair of 2220H/J woofers per side as these are some of the highest efficiency woofers ever made. Since these don't go all that low, I would be using a subwoofer for the low end. At the top end, I anticipated crossing over to a 2123h at 300hz or so. However, before I acquired the woofers, I decided that I'd prefer that the main speakers go a little lower even though this would mean a larger box. To this end, I now own four E145-8 woofers (two per side). I expect that these should be good down to around 50hz, maybe a bit lower - at least, that's how I read the specs - and, again, use a seperate subwoofer below that.

Someone suggested that I use 2235 woofers instead. They do seem to have an excellent reputation. I'm guessing that they will go lower in about the same size box, but with somewhat less sensititivity, I will be moving away from my goal. On the other hand, with a pair of 2235's, could I dispense with the subwoofers altogether? At least for a while - money is an issue.

It was hard enough to find four decent E145-8 woofers. I wasn't all that familar with the 2235 when I decided to go with the E145-8. 2235 woofers seem hard to find and expensive when they can be found. The 2225 and a few other models use the same basket (I understand) and can be reconed to a 2235. The problem is finding four blown 2225 woofers and going through the expense of reconing them, plus selling the E145-8's. So my question is : Is the result of switching to the 2235 worth it? They are less sensitive but maybe with a pair of them in series per side and enough power (which I have), it won't be that big a deal.

Any opinions? And anyone have any blown 2225 woofers for sale or trade?

[Mr. Widget]

My goal is very high efficiency and accuracy in a home (movies and music) environment.

Any opinions? Having used all of the drivers mentioned... I have plenty of opinions. OK, I have plenty of them on many other subjects too. :D

First of all are you wanting high sensitivity for high SPLs or to use less watts?

Second, while I think you can design an exceptional system with any of these woofers, I'd use 2245s instead. If you are after extremely high SPLs or you just want to see lots of drivers you could use 2 22545s per channel, but in most instances, one 2245 per channel crossed over in the 250-300Hz range should give you a superior bottom end than the 15" woofers mentioned. In addition, you wouldn't need a sub unless you are after extreme SPLs in the sub 20Hz region.

That said, the E-145s have a slam in the upper bass that is quite compelling.


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[BigT]

I'm just trying to detemine what I will gain and lose by switching to the 2235 from the E145-8. The 2245 is out of the question for the main speakers; the required box volume is just too big for my situation. By going to the 2235 I will lose some sensititivity but, as a tradeoff, it should go lower. I'm hoping low enough that I could forego a subwoofer for a while. Is this, in anyones opinion, worth the expense and hassle? Right now I'm considering other non-JBL options for the woofer section but that's going away from my other goal, an all-JBL system.

[edgewound]

Sounds like you answered your own question.

Efficiency, low end....E-145 is the only JBL that does both.

Look at the cabinet specs for a 4628B....tuned to 35Hz. I'm talking box size....not cosmetics, of course.

You could tweak a little more sub bass by going passive radiator on the back or side of the enclosure.

[Mr. Widget]

The 2245 is out of the question for the main speakers; the required box volume is just too big for my situation.Dual 2235s use the same volume as a single 2245. On paper the pair of 2235s and the single 2245 are similar in performance, but in listening to them the 2245 just sounds better and has more deep bass authority. That said the 2235 obviously sounds better above 300Hz. With the E145 you get a more dynamic sound, but almost no deep bass. For me the E145 isn't workable without a sub. Having a system with one or two 15" woofers a side and still needing a sub just seems wrong for a home system.


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[speakerdave]

. . . . Is this, in anyones opinion, worth the expense and hassle? . . . .

I should think your pair of E145's would fetch the price of a pair of 2235's. They are less common and uniquely desireable for their frequency range because of the underhung voice coil/gap topology. You may have gotten a bargain, but if they are clean and priced right, you should net out OK if you decide to make the change.

David

[Zilch]

Dual 15"?

Do the 4435 thing or use both E145 and 2235, the latter, in effect, as a built-in sub....

[Robh3606]

How big is your room??

With E-145's for HT you need to have subs. What they do they do great but they just can't do 20-40hz like either an LE-14 or a 2235. Both of those drivers do a much better job. Zilches suggestion of a 4435 low end, dual 2234's would work just fine.

The "right" woofer as far as resonable efficiency, bass extension and if you only have room for one is the 2235.

Rob:)

[SMKSoundPro]

I see many JBL cabinet designs that use the 15" foam surround woofer. From the early Lans-alloy to the foam.

I, personally, keep looking at the 43xx studio monitor line of 4-way and think I would like to build some next.

I have one E145 woofer, and more 2235's. The 2235 goes low. In my L200b cabinet sounds great. (Granted, I have 2-2245's for subs underneath)

IF you start your project around the E145's, I strongly believe you will crave a 2245 sub someday.

If you start your project around a 2235 in each enclosure, you may NEVER crave a sub, (but can add one, just for kicks!)

Scott.

[BigT]

I understood from the beginning that I would need subwoofers. My original plan was for a pair of 2220h/j woofers per side because of their very high efficiency, and with a subwoofer they would not need to go low, plus the required box size would be much smaller. I changed to E145-8's because I wanted the main speakers to better operate as standalones without giving up much in efficiency. Which is, as I said in my first post, the main goal.

I note the suggestion the 2245 woofer. The problem is finding them. I'd love to pick up a pair - or more - of 2245's but where? I don't have a source. They rarely come up on Ebay and, locally, JBL drivers of any kind are very hard to find. So I'm stuck. I want them but can't find them. What do I do? Very likely I will go with woofers from another manufacturer just because they're available.

[rs237]

Hello BigT,

Search a blown 2240 or 2245 on ebay. Let him to the 2245 reconen.

regards
juergen

[Robh3606]

I changed to E145-8's because I wanted the main speakers to better operate as standalones without giving up much in efficiency. Which is, as I said in my first post, the main goal.


OK but you will still need some decent box size to get them low enough. You end up using almost the same volume as a 2235. say 5 cubic ft to cross them over at around 50Hz with room gain. How big is your room?? For any normal room size you won't need 2 pair to do 50-300hz. How are you planing on powering them?? A couple of watts won't do it.

Have you looked at these drivers in a box program???

Rob:)

[Jan Daugaard]

The 2265H offers the same desirable combination of efficiency and low end as the E145, and the 2265H has the advantage of being a current product.

[Robh3606]

The 2265H offers the same desirable combination of efficiency and low end as the E145, and the 2265H has the advantage of being a current product.


What does it sound like??

Rob:)

[Chas]

FWIW My JBL dealer says 2245H is still available.

[BigT]

FWIW My JBL dealer says 2245H is still available.

Really? I'll have to locate a local JBL dealer to ask.

What is a 2265? I've never heard of it?

I'm ashamed to admit that my room does not justify the speaker I want to build. If I used common sense I would not want it at all and stay with mu current speakers (Legacy Focus) which are quite adequate. But that, actually, is beside the point. I plan, someday, to move into a much larger room although that time is probably far into the future. The only justification I need, actually, is it that I want it. I am beginning to backtrack a bit and am seriously reconsidering returning to my original woofer choice, the 2220h/j. If I'm using a subwoofer anyway, why saddle myself with much larger main speakers? A pair of 2245's for the deep end are sounding much better now.

[Zilch]

What do I do? Very likely I will go with woofers from another manufacturer just because they're available.Chops has some Ushers for sale.... :p

[Robh3606]

I'm ashamed to admit that my room does not justify the speaker I want to build.

Well join the club:D Lot's of members here. I could certainly use smaller set-up's but that's beside the point. What you are doing is ambitious and you should be using a box program to see what cabinets sizes you need for the sub and midwoofer boxes.

Try downloading WinIsd. It's a freeware box program with most of the JBL drivers in the library as well as many others as well. If you do use it be aware the the Vas on the E-145 is not correct. It should be 427 L not the 247L as in the program.

Rob:)

[Ian Mackenzie]

At least Rob you said it more nicely than has been put else where.

Heck, I just disconnect one of my woofers when I feel shall we say there is a tad too much bass.:D

[BigT]

Try downloading WinIsd.

Got that, as well as a couple other programs. Might eventually go with Sound Easy if I get really into speaker building, but not right now. This will be a quad-amped (with the subwoofer) system also. I found an Ashly Protea 4.24C electronic crossover for a very reasonable price not too long ago, so I don't have to get deep into learning to design passive crossovers right now.

[Robh3606]

This will be a quad-amped (with the subwoofer) system also.

What are you going to be using on the top end??

Rob:)

[Jan Daugaard]

Here are the systems in which the 2265H is found:

http://www.vikascorporation.com/cntnt/sndjbl-srx700series.shtml

[BigT]

I won this auction for a pair of 2245h's : http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120232221864&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=002 . Hopefully they are as good as they look and the seller packs well. I thought they were reasonably priced with reasonable shipping.

Now, again - my original intent was for a pair of 2220h woofers per side plus subwoofer, then I changed to a pair of E145-8 woofers per side plus subwoofer and then thought about a pair of 2235h woofers without subwoofers initially but maybe subwoofers later. Now I have a pair of 2245h 18"ers!

So I'm thinking again. a.) A pair of E145-8's per side with the 2245's used as subwoofers b.) selling the E145-8's and use one 2245h per side, or c.) sell the E145-8's, return to my original plan of a pair of 2220h's per side with the 2245's used as subwoofers?

What would you do and why?

[grumpy]

I would try what you have, to find out what you do... or do not like about the resulting
system. Based on 2245's and E145's, the potential for a very nice system is there...
The hole sizes/bolt patterns for your candidate 15" drivers are the same (easy physical
swap), should you change your mind.

[speakerdave]

Why two E145's per side? I think you only need one (with the 2245 to do the low bass).

David

[Robh3606]

Why two E145's per side?

My thoughts as well.

Rob:)

[grumpy]

Was a driver layout/topology ever described? just curious.
(what would this look like when put together?)

[Mr. Widget]

So I'm thinking again. a.) A pair of E145-8's per side with the 2245's used as subwoofers b.) selling the E145-8's and use one 2245h per side, or c.) sell the E145-8's, return to my original plan of a pair of 2220h's per side with the 2245's used as subwoofers?

What would you do and why?I would sell off the whole lot and buy a nice little Bose system. The why is because I am insane or deaf or perhaps both. :applaud:

Ok, seriously. I would use a single E-145 and 2245 per channel. Why? Because a pair of woofers in a home system is likely to detract from the system's coherence at frequencies approaching the midrange. (This is why both the 4435 and Everest II systems only use one woofer above the lower bass frequencies.) I would use the E-145 over the 2220 as it has lower distortion and has a subjectively better sound to my ears. I would crossover the 2245 to the E-145 somewhere between 60Hz and 150Hz (I can't be specific as I have never run this combo and I would have to experiment) and crossover to a big ass horn or a kick ass cone mid at 500-700Hz. You can run the E-145 significantly higher, but transparency and detail loss will occur.


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[BigT]

Yeah, I'm thinking that one E145-8 per side crossed over to a 2123h is a better idea. I wanted two E145-8's for higher efficiency - my goal. But it's turning out that the speaker - because I want all drivers in a vertical line - is going to be too tall with the tweeter (2404h) too far above my seated position. And it will be ~4.5 cubic feet smaller, a good thing in my situation. With the two 2245h's as subwoofers between them and below my screen, I should be ok.

[Zilch]

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=8736&stc=1&d=1120367095

[Allanvh5150]

I would have to agree with Widget. Go with the 2245 and the E145 crossed over at 80 hertz. I have always liked the 80 hertz crossover point as it keeps all the "sound" out of the sub and the sub can concentrate on moving air. You will have a very nice setup.:)

[pos]

what do you plan to use on top of the 2123 ?

[BigT]

what do you plan to use on top of the 2123 ?

I will be using a 2446h compression driver and a 2382a horn. Crossover will be an Ashly Protea 4.24c, 4 in, 8 out. I will need another crossover to the subwoofers but I don't know what that will be yet. Amps are undecided except for my current amp, a Crown Macro Reference that I've owned for a dozen years. 760 watts/channel - great woofer amp. I will be looking for eight more channels of amplification. It's very likely that they will be all pro amps simply because of the bang/buck advantage but I'd like them to be quiet, cheap, reliable and at least 200 watts/channel. I'll probably have to compromise on one thing or another. I don't know if what I want exists but I'm looking. I favor Crown and QSC.

[Baron030]

And what do you plan to use on top of the 2446h / 2382a horn combination ?

[BigT]

And what do you plan to use on top of the 2446h / 2382a horn combination ?

As I said offhandedly in some post above (or was it another thread?), a JBL 2404h. I probably don't really need it as I don't hear the really high frequencies that well, but I want it anyway.

[Mr. Widget]

...a JBL 2404h. I probably don't really need it as I don't hear the really high frequencies that well, but I want it anyway.Ah, that explains the obsession with piles of woofers. ;)



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