L65 on Steroids

[Mr. Widget]

I have a question for anyone who has really liked the JBL L65s and especially for those who have owned them and have had experience with other speakers.

A forum member who owns a pair and likes them would like to upgrade. We have discussed options, but he wants to maintain the sound quality of the L65s but he wants more. As in more L65 not necessarily what you or I might think is a better loudspeaker. If we start suggesting what we think is better the whole conversation wanders into the subjective land of what good sound is. We have beaten that topic to death and certainly will again.

Personally I'd describe the L65 as a rather mellow toned loudspeaker with a fairly fat low end and a zingy top end. This isn't my flavor of sound and therefore am at a loss when trying to think of a system that has even more L65 than the L65.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Widget

[4313B]

Way back then a buddy of mine had a pair of 5 cu ft boxes and we decided to put the L65 system components in them, instead of the 122A we used the 136A and it worked out pretty well. Or so we thought at the time. One could also expand the L65 into a 4315.

[Mr. Widget]

Way back then a buddy of mine had a pair of 5 cu ft boxes and we decided to put the L65 system components in them, instead of the 122A we used the 136A and it worked out pretty well. Or so we thought at the time. One could also expand the L65 into a 4315.That's right. I have literature on a JBL system using a slightly larger cabinet than the L65 called the Flair. It used the white coned 135 with the cone mid and tweeter of the L100... something like that with the 077 and mid from an L65 would be cool.

I'm not sure, but I think he is looking for a pre-made solution though.


Widget

[chilledspode]

Thanks for starting this Mr. Widget

I just finished going through your thread on hearing loss and laughed at myself - 50% deaf in one ear and I am chasing speakers... The real truth I suspect, is at 45 I am too far along my path to chase another hobby and achieve the level of understanding I have with those I have chased all my life - which is to say motorcylces, my work and now with a young family I am enjoying all sorts of new things..

I have been doing a lot of reading on this site (so much more to do) and I am going to step away from those 19's we were talking about, and continue to try to better define my modest speaker ambitions and what JBL speakers I should pursue next.

My frame of reference for speakers is so limited that I suspect engaging folks here at LH, in the hopes of leap frogging my understanding, will be a real challenge and consume too much of everyone's time - I wish to avoid this.

At this point what I think might be most helpful is a rough roadmap of JBL lineage/sound. It appears there was a transition between the west coast sound to a more balanced speaker in the 80's. If the L65 is the 'west coast sound' and I want to move up a model level would this be the L200/B/L300 series? If I accept the fact that a more technically accurate speaker is what I would like to experience next, I assume the monitor series (4311B/4312) would be a reasonable place to start and possibly the L250/250Ti home line.

Cheers and thank you all, and I recognize shopping for speakers over the internet appears ridiculous in the extreme, but it is what I have to work with, so your experience and comments are greatly appreciated.

Mark

nb: Thank you (the thread & author escapes me) for the direct comparison between Clarity and Solen caps - I think I will try the clarity's in my Jubals and see what we come up with...

[Mr. Widget]

Come on now.

I know that there are quite a few of you out there with a significantly greater first hand knowledge of commercially available JBLs from the '70s, '80s and '90s than I have. Can't any of you think of an upgrade to the L65 that still has it's character?


Widget

[johnaec]

Can't any of you think of an upgrade to the L65 that still has it's character?4315A's? :p

John

[Mr. Widget]

4315A's? Hmmm? The 4315A is an L65 that has been improved to be sure, but I believe it is not necessarily the type of "improvement" that Mark is looking for.


Widget

[porschedpm]

It's been about 4 years since I owned a pair of L65's. Back then I also was looking to upgrade them. The general concensus I got from forum members at that time was that the L65 is already closely engineered to its design goals and probably already optimum within its limitations...use them the way they are and save your money for your next set of JBLs. That being said though, the upgrades I would try are as follows and in the following order:

1) Upgrade the crossover network.
2) Add an external 14" or larger subwoofer.
3) Swap the LF drivers for the 2214 (or 128H-1).
4) Swap the MF drivers for the 104H-2.

[chilledspode]

4315A's? :p

John

Hello again John - the pursuit continues...

The 4315's certainly fit the bill from what I have read and Heathr seems right pleased with hers, but they seem to be near unobtanium and more truthfully I think they represent a good 2 levels up from the Jubals - I will continue to dream of owning a pair but I think I need to set my sights a little lower...

Cheers

Mark

[chilledspode]

It's been about 4 years since I owned a pair of L65's. Back then I also was looking to upgrade them. The general concensus I got from forum members at that time was that the L65 is already closely engineered to its design goals and probably already optimum within its limitations...use them the way they are and save your money for your next set of JBLs. That being said though, the upgrades I would try are as follows and in the following order:

1) Upgrade the crossover network.
2) Add an external 14" or larger subwoofer.
3) Swap the LF drivers for the 2214 (or 128H-1).
4) Swap the MF drivers for the 104H-2.

Sorry if I was unclear - I intend to return the Jubals to my father in near original condition - I am looking for a replacement vs an upgrade to existing.

Cheers

Mark

[porschedpm]

In the words of Emily Latilla: "Nevermind".

[porschedpm]

I think the 4412 Studio Monitors might be what you're looking for.

[hjames]

Hello again John - the pursuit continues...

The 4315's certainly fit the bill from what I have read and Heather seems right pleased with hers, but they seem to be near unobtanium and more truthfully I think they represent a good 2 levels up from the Jubals - I will continue to dream of owning a pair but I think I need to set my sights a little lower...

Cheers

Mark

Actually, mine are a step above the 4315s, I have 4341s, pretty much the same 4 drivers as a 4343 but in a slightly smaller cabinet (small is relative). They do pop up from time to time, but to get a set in good condition can be a bit pricey (although not as pricey as the 4345s with those huge 18" woofers!). I was lucky, PLUS I had some spares to shift around from another set of big boxes to make them complete ...

Maybe a set of 4313Bs?

[mike]

If you like the sound character or "voicing" of the Jubals you won't want to upgrade to something too much newer. I would say that the L220's would be the closest thing to a speaker that sounds like a larger version of the Jubal. They should be findable with a little effort and waiting.

Mike

[Donald]

I have L65, L222 and L300. I have not done ABC tests of the 3 but for me the L65 is better than the L222. The highs can cut glass and the bass seems tighter. I have not pushed the L300 like I have the L65 but I would think the L300 would be better since it has the same tweeter, a horn mid-range and a bigger woofer.

Something to do Sunday. ABC testing.

[johnaec]

The 4315's certainly fit the bill from what I have read and Heathr seems right pleased with hers...Actually, Heather has a set of larger models with a 15" woofer and 10" low-mid. The 4315 has a 12" LF, 5" upper-mid, and slot radiator, just like the L65, only different models. It also includes an 8" low-mid, (see below). The 2203 used is the only 12" speaker JBL ever made for monitor systems that has a 4" voice coil, for excellent control. And the 8" low-mids have a 3" voice coil! The 2405 slots are the same as the 077's in the L65's only with a plack "prism" instead of clear. The 5" 2105 is the pro version of the LE5-5 the L65 uses, so basically, the 4315 is like an L65 with a more accurate 12" and added 8"..

John

[chilledspode]

Actually, mine are a step above the 4315s, I have 4341s, pretty much the same 4 drivers as a 4343 but in a slightly smaller cabinet ... they do pop up from time to time, but to get a set in good condition can be a bit pricey. I was lucky, PLUS I had some spares to shift around from another set of big boxes ...

Maybe a set of 4313Bs?

Clearly I need to go print out all the spec sheets on these speakers and spend some time understanding the technical differences

My apologies about understating your new pride an joys :-)

Cheers

Mark

[chilledspode]

Actually, Heather has a set of larger models with a 15" woofer and 10" low-mid. The 4315 has a 12" LF, 5" upper-mid, and slot radiator, just like the L65, only different models. It also includes an 8" low-mid, (see below).

John

I see what was confusing me now - in travelling around threads I had mistakenly got into thinking the 15/10/5/tweeter and the 12/8/5/tweeter were the same driver sets, I simply missed it....

Heather's 4341's while desireable for me from a 'too much is just enough' perspective, are simply too much speaker for my modest living room (14x20 with no back wall) and ambitions.

It is starting to sound like 4315's may be my version of JBL nirvana - more reading of the JBL history article to see how these came into existence.

Cheers and thank you all for helping me understand and narrow the field down to manageable spectrum.

Mark

[chilledspode]

According to another website, just stack another pair on them.......;)

An elegant solution - would the glass top of the lower set take that.. :D

The flaw I see, in my particular case, is that your solution still leaves my father without his original Jubals;)

Cheers and I must say I enjoyed the active thread where you and others worked through environment and system issues with the member from Alaska - science and experience will get you there.. I might have considered, for reinforcing a wood frame floor, assuming you can get to the underside of it, using plywood to sheet the bottom side of the floor joist to create a box beam effect. I expect the plywood in tension would do far more than blocking the joists - just a thought. I would also glue it to the joists for strong connections. The possible downside is you also create another 'chamber' and I suspect this may have introduced yet another challenge...

Mark

[chilledspode]

Actually, Heather has a set of larger models with a 15" woofer and 10" low-mid. The 4315 has a 12" LF, 5" upper-mid, and slot radiator, just like the L65, only different models. It also includes an 8" low-mid, (see below). The 2203 used is the only 12" speaker JBL ever made for monitor systems that has a 4" voice coil, for excellent control. And the 8" low-mids have a 3" voice coil! The 2405 slots are the same as the 077's in the L65's only with a plack "prism" instead of clear. The 5" 2105 is the pro version of the LE5-5 the L65 uses, so basically, the 4315 is like an L65 with a more accurate 12" and added 8"..

John

Any chance you might know where I could procure a pair of those, John - nudge, nudge, wink, wink...

Mark

[Earl K]

Personally I'd describe the L65 as a rather mellow toned loudspeaker with a fairly fat low end and a zingy top end. This isn't my flavor of sound and therefore am at a loss when trying to think of a system that has even more L65 than the L65.

- I'll imagine that LHF member "Akira"(s)' custom rework of his L100s when mated with the pair of subwoofers that he built ( using JBL, 10" car subwoofers ) are quite close to sounding like an L65 ( times 2 ).
- ( I think he reworked the L100s' crossover & replaced the stock tweeter with 077 slots )
- Search for all threads started by "Akira" to read the details .

- Since Akira has just acquired a pair of 4315s / it would be interesting to hear his listening impressions between the two systems .

:)

ps ; chilledspode, you might want to start collecting data on the shipping costs ( into Yellowknife, I presume ) for the upwards of 150 to 250 lbs of speakers you're considering buying .
- These costs ( as well as the Cdn taxes that are collected by the "carrier" when coupled with all UPS/Fedex "brokerage fees" / payable upon delivery ) can have a sobbering effect on transborder shipping ( assuming you haven't talked yourself into "irrational exuberance" before you see this final bill ) .

[chilledspode]

Hi Earl,

I am trying to stay with a simple speaker system without subs - limited room space.. I will look into Akira's work and maybe he will offer a comment on the differences.

Thanks for your comments and your sage advice about shipping costs, the all in sobbering ones:D - I have been up here a long time and am painfully aware of the reality of living up here.

I have air/road/rail freighted all manner of things and yes it is expensive but the alternative is a life hardly worth living..;) Moderation and occasional silliness thrown in, seems to be a sustainable approach.

Cheers

Mark

[jblnut]

On the contrary - 4315's seem to be coming out of the woodwork lately. Very nice pairs in the $1200 range have appeared on both coasts in the past few weeks on ebay. If you really want an upgrade from the L65 with similar sound (drivers), these are the ones I would look into.

Finding the right pair of vintage JBLs is a waiting game. Take your time, do your research and then strike when the right pair pops up close to home. It may take some time, but there's a lot more sense of reward and accomplishment when you finally track down that elusive pair of speakers you've been chasing for a while.

Alternatively, you can always buy (and optionally sell later) something a little easier to find while you are waiting. It wouldn't hurt to check out some of the newer 12" 3-ways starting with the L112 then moving into a 120Ti or 4412.

jblnut




Hello again John - the pursuit continues...

The 4315's certainly fit the bill from what I have read and Heathr seems right pleased with hers, but they seem to be near unobtanium ....


Mark

[Mr. Widget]

4315's seem to be coming out of the woodwork lately. If you really want an upgrade from the L65 with similar sound (drivers), these are the ones I would look into.Maybe Johnaec was right. It has been quite a while since I've heard either. My memory tells me the 4315 has a more neutral sound and far less of the L65s "character". John what say you? You do have or have had both systems recently.

As for the shipping etc. It seems to me that an economical solution might be to acquire a new set of L65s for dad since he is in the lower 48 and much closer to LA where so many of these things live.


Widget

[speakerdave]

I bet Dad would like some clean 4315's.

[chilledspode]

I bet Dad would like some clean 4315's.

I am certain he would - my generosity has limits however...:D

He is currently pursuing more accurate forms of audio at a price point I won't be chasing...

The folks come to visit regularly - the grand kids are real the attraction, and he always remarks how much he likes the Jubal sound, this is my impetous for trying to get them back to him - the 4315's if I was ever so fortunate to find a nice clean pair, would be for me!

Cheers

Mark

[chilledspode]

I look forward to johnaec's comments on the character aspect...

There is some humour in the second part of your post - my father, who likes the west coast sound, lives on the east coast of Canada :D The logistics problem people have mentioned to Yellowknife is a real challenge especially with the folks being out east, but we manage (all it takes is money).


Maybe Johnaec was right. It has been quite a while since I've heard either. My memory tells me the 4315 has a more neutral sound and far less of the L65s "character". John what say you? You do have or have had both systems recently.

As for the shipping etc. It seems to me that an economical solution might be to acquire a new set of L65s for dad since he is in the lower 48 and much closer to LA where so many of these things live.


Widget

[Mr. Widget]

No humor, just a misunderstanding... when you said he moved south, I thought you meant really south. I have a hard time with the notion that with the exception of parts of Ontario, southern Canada is still north of North Dakota.:)


Of course, as a kid growing up in San Diego, I couldn't imagine why a place like Chicago even existed.


Widget

[chilledspode]

Widget
I just wanted to say thank you - I am starting to understand things better and you have been instrumental in making that happen.

As for your geopgraphy challenges - I suffer the same problem, just inverted:)

Mark


No humor, just a misunderstanding... when you said he moved south, I thought you meant really south. I have a hard time with the notion that with the exception of parts of Ontario, southern Canada is still north of North Dakota.:)


Of course, as a kid growing up in San Diego, I couldn't imagine why a place like Chicago even existed.


Widget

[JohanR]

Way back then a buddy of mine had a pair of 5 cu ft boxes and we decided to put the L65 system components in them, instead of the 122A we used the 136A and it worked out pretty well. Or so we thought at the time. One could also expand the L65 into a 4315.


In those "good old days" the Swedish pro importer even sold a kit, "Kit 65 big" that where just that, an L65 with a 15" woofer.

JohanR

[chilledspode]

Good morning, Don

Any chance you found the time to do the ABC testing - curious minds want to know...:)

Mark


I have L65, L222 and L300. I have not done ABC tests of the 3 but for me the L65 is better than the L222. The highs can cut glass and the bass seems tighter. I have not pushed the L300 like I have the L65 but I would think the L300 would be better since it has the same tweeter, a horn mid-range and a bigger woofer.

Something to do Sunday. ABC testing.

[macaroonie]

For a little Backyard Box Building. Seems to me you can collect the drivers you need bit by bit and go from there. There are plenty of 2213's and 104H's and slots at a price. Your imagination is the only limitation. :)

[chilledspode]

I can't fault your comment but this kind of project would be stretching my skills a loooong ways....

I am assuming, for the moment, that my requirements are not wholly unique and 'there is a speaker out there for me' - I just haven't found it yet:D

Cheers

mark


For a little Backyard Box Building. Seems to me you can collect the drivers you need bit by bit and go from there. There are plenty of 2213's and 104H's and slots at a price. Your imagination is the only limitation. :)

[macaroonie]

and here are your speakers.

http://cgi.ebay.com/JBL-4315-DRIVERS_W0QQitemZ300204114818QQihZ020QQcategoryZ50 597QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Now the guy sounds like an idiot so you may well have some spadework to do but off you go sport. Happy hunting:applaud:

[macaroonie]

I would try to score them whole but if you cannot do that get all the hardware and build something like these ( my own )

[SEAWOLF97]

and here are your speakers.

http://cgi.ebay.com/JBL-4315-DRIVERS_W0QQitemZ300204114818QQihZ020QQcategoryZ50 597QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Now the guy sounds like an idiot so you may well have some spadework to do but off you go sport. Happy hunting:applaud:

Hmmm...."VIA WIRE TRANSFER TO MY BANK ACCOUNT "
MY PAY-PAL ACCOUNT IS SCREWED UP
Shipping costs:US $100.00 (or maybe more)

only 3 feedbacks as a seller
new old stock (how can that be ?? - they are pulls)

LOTS OF FLAGS THERE ...BE CAREFULL

[macaroonie]

True and true but they (allegedly ) are in Canada. Get the guy to quote you some serial nos. to start you can get them verified here at least.
Wise Old Wolfy --- the consumate Hi Fi hound :applaud:

[SEAWOLF97]

Wise Old Wolfy --- the consumate Hi Fi hound :applaud:

do you have some sort of scarcastic comments for HJ and David and Mark and the other Mark too ?

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=203042#post203042


Yeah, this sounds so much like an ebay wannbe hustle ... hijacked account, whatever -
I sure wouldn't trust them!

The last part they sold thats visible was a chromed ford Comet bumper for $200 .. the rest are aged out and unknown ...



Someone who lives near enough to make an offer of local purchase creditable should make contact and see what happens. (Be careful--it's dangerous out there!!)
David


NOS speakers in a box being parted out. Sounds like a COS!


sounds like a cash only, in person and a large mean looking friend would be coming with me

If the seller is not an idiot or a scammer he should realize it reads like either(see part 1 again) :)

Mark

[macaroonie]

Comment was not meant that way rather a note relating to your experience in procuring good gear at proper prices. Sorry if you took it the wrong way. Mac

[chilledspode]

I am off and panting... :-)

I'll update this thread as news becomes available

To be honest this one has 'walk away' written all over it but I have friends in Van who can go observe first hand so there's a chance this might work out

Cheers

Mark


and here are your speakers.

http://cgi.ebay.com/JBL-4315-DRIVERS_W0QQitemZ300204114818QQihZ020QQcategoryZ50 597QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Now the guy sounds like an idiot so you may well have some spadework to do but off you go sport. Happy hunting:applaud:

[chilledspode]

Hi Mac

I have never seen these - what are they and from what time period?

They are pretty and the driver set looks like what I am chasing.

Cheers

Mark


I would try to score them whole but if you cannot do that get all the hardware and build something like these ( my own )

[macaroonie]

I'm glad you have chums that can do some legwork for you. I get the feeling the guy will mess about some but you never know. I just noticed that he is flipping the bass drivers at $800 or up. Actually greed might get the better of him as that is a high price. Add in all the other drivers you are going to nudge 2k whilst the going rate seems to be about 12 - 1500 complete. Presented with readies he may come to his senses. Good luck they certainly are worth chasing although they do like power being a four way. Anyhow you got to get em yet.
The speakers in the pic are 4315a components in a new box. I had the original cabinets at one time but they got wrecked in a flood. By a stroke of luck the drivers all survived intact and after a previous interpretation I built these as a keeper re-work. 40mm solid oak baffle 25mm hardwood ply casing. In this format they image much better than standard. Vertical in line drivers / narrow cabinet does the trick.

[Earl K]

Mac, is this a new picture , n'est pas ?

- That flood did us all a favour . ;)

http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=31307&stc=1&d=1204590088

Anyways, ( whether I've seen this pic before or not ) I seriously think all existng 4315(s) should be morphed to look like your creation ( but then , you already knew I was a fan of this "look" ).

cheers

[4313B]

Very nice! :applaud:

[macaroonie]

Thanks guys but these have been around for four years at least. There were some old posts from that time that I tried to find a link for to help out our Canadian chum but they seem to have lapsed.
FWIW they were built using the same method as the L300ish project.
Here are a coupleof other shots for your amusement.

[chilledspode]

Mac,

Nice piece of work you did there. Question: I have always been under the understanding that bass is non directional, and I am curious to know from you if there is any noticeable difference in your new speakers due to the lateral placement of the woofers vs front firing 4315.

Cheers and thank you for bringing these to my attention.

Mark

[macaroonie]

It seems to work well in the sense that the overall plusses outweigh any minuses. The downside if at all is that placement is fairly critical WRT boundary walls. The bass units fire inwards and as you see the port is on the back. The port should not have any issues other than being able to breathe.
Anyway in all I prefer them like this to the way that they were. Bear in mind that the original design was for soffit mounting so that alone would be different to freestanding in a domestic environment.

[4313B]

This configuration would probably work really well with the L212 components too.

066 instead of 077
121 instead of 124

70 Hz crossover between 121 and 112 instead of 400 Hz between 124 and 112.

[macaroonie]

I get the impression that the woodwork may be beyond your capabilities. Well the basics of these and in fact any cabinets can be accomplished easily and not at great cost ( in theory ) by a competent cabinet shop. Do you have one locally ?
If you do you could reasonably explore the option of a 'home build'
In the event that the deal in BC does not come off as I suggested before you could collect drivers from here and there until you have what is required.
I agree with 4313B about the alternative driver split in that configuration. For sure if the woof was behaving more like a SUB then everything should be tidier. He is the man to sort out that 3114 crossover, but the stumbling block would seem to be availability of the 112 / 2108.
As it happens the in between iteration of my phoenix 4315,s was two B380 subs ( with BX63 ) and as satellites the three upper drivers from the 4315.
The cabinet was 42" tall about 12" wide and 5-6" deep. The 112/ 2108 was allowed to run all the way down and was operating in a sealed enclosure.
That is such a good driver that the panels on their own were pretty handy. In fact there is one over there to the left. 8" driver with a 3" coil. You don't see many of them about thats for sure.
In all that system sounded great but it was running at that time in a big room with lots of space to 'air' as it were. Fantastic imaging. I don't live there any more--- oh well .
I would be glad to help with dimensions etc if you wanted to build.
Hope all this helps and is not turning your head round and round like a case of Moosehead and a quart of Yukon Jack

[chilledspode]

Mac,

In truth I could probably take this project on and pull it off, but another approach is spinning up and so please hold your great comments suggestions for a bit until I can talk about what is happening....

I sure enjoy watching you guys assemble solutions - cool shite!

Stay tuned, I'll tell you all what's going on when I can.

Cheers

Mark

[chilledspode]

Thanks to the efforts of a number of LH members and specifically John, I now have a pair of 4315A's in my living room and I must say I am very pleased with these speakers. Jubals on steroids - a fair statement in my opinion :D

I don't think we broke any long distance records for shipping but full points go to John for doing an excellent job at packaging and getting them to me in fine shape.

Unfortunately they are occupying an interim setup in our living room until I finish the last of the reno's on the end wall - then I'll move the stereo into it's final home and properly set them up.

Lastly, I just want to say John is a dang nice guy and performed yeoman service, in terms of taking the time to educate me and helping me work up to the decision to move on the 4315's, not to mention providing a complete set of response curves with corresponding control settings - I owe John more than a few wobbly pops if I ever get down his way:applaud:

Long distance purchasing of vintage gear just doesn't get any better than this.

Cheers and my sincere thanks to you, all.

Mark

[4313B]

Very cool! :yes:

[macaroonie]

You will truly enjoy these of that I am sure, just make sure you have plenty of clean power on tap coz these are kind of greedy once things get going.

Welcome to the 4315 club and well done John as ever :applaud:

[chilledspode]

Hi Mac!

What would you consider a minimum for home duty... I am currently running them with a NAD 370 at ~110W's a side but at 1/2 vol they are 'substantially' loud :D so I figure I have enough headroom.

I would like your comments though, Mac - thanks

Mark

[chilledspode]

Very cool! :yes:

Thank you, sir, for your part in this

Mark

[macaroonie]

If it sounds good to you then it is good. For my money I have never been a fan of NAD and it is the case that there is a certain ' match made in heaven ' thing with JBL of that vintage and Crown amps. You will just have to be patient and enjoy your new best pals. A couple of pics would be good.
On another subject , just after we were e mailing we got that documentary on TV about the ice roads. Well in the name of the wee man those guys are nuts. It gave me a take on where you live though. Interesting to say the least.

[chilledspode]

Can you let me in on the Crown secret? I certainly appreciate there is a lot of dialogue in here on them - do the Crown's produce a vintage or a neutral sound or is there different langauge you would choose to describe them.. I have found the NAD stuff serviceable at my price point and I have not chased alternates - maybe I should revisit this aspect...

Ice roads are interesting things - the TV stuff is over dramatized. A lot of detailed engineering goes into these things and the safety record speaks to that, though unfortunately bad things do happen.

Cheers

Mark

nb: some neat pics in here http://fogonazos.blogspot.com/2007/04/arctic-highway.html

[macaroonie]

With vast experience in these matters. Scott Fitlin in NYC knows his onions as does Subwoof and many more . I'll let them tell you. I would have one if they were not so £££££ over here. You want to do a rummage around the site there is plenty of comment and little of it adverse. The JBL/ Urei amps are also well thought of without going at silly money.

[johnaec]

'Glad they arrived OK, Mark, and didn't fall through the ice road! :) Maybe you can use all the styrofoam packing for house insulation.

Post some pics when you can.

John

[Mr. Widget]

Excellent!

Glad it worked out.


Widget

[chilledspode]

Hi John,

Pics - will do

Cheers

Mark


'Glad they arrived OK, Mark, and didn't fall through the ice road! :) Maybe you can use all the styrofoam packing for house insulation.

Post some pics when you can.

John

[3dbdown]

Chilledspode.

Rick here. If you want to return them in near original condition, about your only choice is to upgrade the midrange(Jubal's weakest link) to the LE5-9 or LE5-11.....They're about 3db better than the original, but still not enough to plug the midrange hole inherent in the L65. Drew Daniels and I did this to my Jubals in 1981, and it helped just a slight bit. We did it at JBL, while looking at the response on a White analyzer, and it was about the only thing to be done. The next best thing is to try and minimize the deficiency by getting the L65 off the floor by 8 to 10 inches , and get them out of the corners of the room. This will tighten up the mid and upper bass regions, and so make the midrange hole less noticable. Best you can do, IMHO, and beyond that, enjoy the functional beauty of the cabinets, and look elsewhere among JBL systems for better overall sound.

For whatever difference it might make, my Jubals are 1975 vintage, with 126A's. I'm not sure how the compare to yours.
Hope this helps,

Rick

[3dbdown]

One further thought.

It's like Porschedpm said....The Jubal was right on with respect to its design parameters.

The first thing I asked Drew after seeing the analyzer levels, was, "can I restuff them with another system?" Answer: No. Nothing would make any substantial difference. So, we installed the LE5-9's, picked up 3db against the 6 to 12 it really needed, and that was it.

Beautiful Cabs, though.

Rick

[chilledspode]

Hi Rick,

Interesting stuff on the Jubals - thank you for sharing it.

I am now enjoying a fine pair of 4315A's courtesy of Johnaec.

I was listening to some odd stuff today and I can now appreciate what you mean by midrange hole in the L65's. The 4315's are giving me a whole new sound and much more music - I am thoroughly pleased with my "L65's on steroids"!!

Now Tom Petty is pretty fluffy music but the 4315's deliver it in a way that the L65's just couldn't. In fact everything in my collection is much more musical and enjoyable with the new speakers.

Again thanks to all for getting me to consider these speakers and John, "thanks", I am totally stoked with these!

Cheers

Mark