Distortion !!!!

[richluvsound]

Hi Folks,

I'm noticing progressively more and more distortion in the lower mids.

Any ideas where and how to start the trouble shooting process ?

How often should the batteries be changed ? bearing in mind they are being used 12 to 15 hours a day.

Could it be the amps (bi-amping) ?

crossover ?


Help ?:banghead:

Rich

[macaroonie]

CABLES !!! Most likely a poor connector or joint somewhere. Try eliminating components by swapping CH for CH etc see if you can follow it around the chain.
Not likely to be your CC batteries they are on all the time and the lifespan is akin to the shelflife.
One channel or both ? Most likely one therefore swap the connectors at the amp end see if it switches side. Logic my dear Watson.

[Andyoz]

Is it just one speaker or both..?

[Ian Mackenzie]

How loud have you been playing the system?

Are you sure its not the Fog Horns?

Listen with your wee golden pommie bastard ear up near the woofer and the mid cones. Isolote if the distortion is from both drivers by turning down the woofer power amps.

The batteries should last for the shelf life ( 3 years....on the circuit thye are on all the time).

Is it both channels? Yes/No

Try a different source and compare... if no change swap the power amps for high/low and compare. No change?

Check the DEQX settings have not changed or the rear speaker connections/biamp settings on the rear panel?

Still not better?

Stop playing mp3 crap and get your ears waxed.

[richluvsound]

Two Aussies and a Scot,

Mp3 crap......... it did'nt sound crap with that bloody MSB dac. The dac in the deqx is shite ! -where was it made I wonder ?

Its not the fog horn ! Piano , thats where it is most noticeable .

All my music is on the mac , lossless at that. The 2122 is the culprit.

Is it possible the caps in the SAC's need replacing ?

Rich

[richluvsound]

Its not on the LF. I have tried turning the amps off and its in the mid band, but low.

I thought compression affected the LF most ?

[Ian Mackenzie]

Might be the 2122 recones.......ooops!

[macaroonie]

download a sig gen and sweep the frequencies of interest, you may find a buzz.

http://www.nch.com.au/tonegen/index.html

[cooky1257]

As an alternative;
Rich are you getting a head cold?
When my sinuses start playing up with the onset of a snotty one the first thing I notice is distortion like fug to the mids-try some phones into your mac and see if its there too.
A Chernobyl strength curry usually clears it up:D

[Hoerninger]

You did not switch over from digital source to TT with a dirty needle, did you?
___________
Peter

[richluvsound]

Only wood dust, all natural:D

Its the mac. I changed the cable from optical to coaxial. :) Is it possible for
the optical to get damaged from being stood on? Is the fibre optic signal prone
to interference from surrounding cables ?

[Hoerninger]

Is it possible for the optical to get damaged from being stood on?
It depends ...

http://www.alistoflists.com/images/animals/biggest-living-things-elephant.jpg

The fibre does not like any sqeezing. But you may sqeeze the elephant :D
(There is no interference.)
___________
Peter

[boputnam]

I'm noticing progressively more and more distortion in the lower mids...Describe, please, both the symptom and the "progressively more" comment.
- what does it sound like - a range of frequencies affected or few?
- "progressively more" frequencies?, more frequently occurs? :o: or is louder?


Might be the 2122 recones.......ooops!That would be bad. Suggests a physical / mechanical break-down with use. That would be bad. How loud are you playing these...?


download a sig gen and sweep the frequencies of interest, you may find a buzz.That's a great idea - try and isolate the offending frequency, if one, or few.

Help us help you...

[richluvsound]

Hi Bo,

It was really bad when I was using iTunes from the laptop.Now I'm using the G5 again and have got rid of the 10 m Toslink and gone coax things have improved tremendously. I realize that I'm hearing
some compression ,but most of my music is apple lossless, so what gives. I was using a really good dac and nada ,but alas that was on loan. I'm listening to Bach as I write and I can hear it in the piano. It's somewhere between 250htz and 400 htz. Could it be the xover point, 290 htz 12db ? I will try and find it with the tone disk .

I did notice the input signal on the Deqx clipping and have turned down the input, again some improvement,but still not good enough.

It does'nt happen when I use the DvD as a transport .So maybe it is just the compression. If it is the 2122 recones ,then Ian can tell Guido not me:p

Is there a usb device that will give me a digital out via coax ?

Rich

[macaroonie]

What is this tone disc you speak of ?

[richluvsound]

Hi Mac,

Test disk that has Frequency signals lasting 2 mins each- audio test tones

it is the signal not the 2122's:p

Rich

[macaroonie]

Do you have a skunk speaker you can drop in to see if it shows up there. Do that and you can eliminate your Monitors from the equation. Before you do that I would download that sig gen. Its only a trial download but is safe and works ok. You can set it up easy peasy to do a mega slow sweep over any frequency range. Whole thing can be done in half an hour then you have peace of mind. You know it can be as simple as a loose screw or a slightly non glued bit of surround etc that will kick off at one frequency. A fixed tone will most likely not catch it.
This is why I invented signal generators. :D

[richluvsound]

Mac ,

the distortion is the same on both monitors.......
And I thought the French bird

was High maintenance :banghead:

Rich

[macaroonie]

I do believe that is the first time you have told us that.
Good luck with your search. You now got to start stripping things out of the chain and get back to the most simple system you can and if it is not away by then you need to substitute components until it is gone. As you do that it will be apparent who the guilty party is.

[richluvsound]

Mac,

I have ran signal tests and it has gone. The signal path is the same for both music and test tones. Therefore, I deduce my dear Watson, it must be the itunes.

Rich

[edgewound]

Mac,

I have ran signal tests and it has gone. The signal path is the same for both music and test tones. Therefore, I deduce my dear Watson, it must be the itunes.

Rich

Apparently...that lossless Apple iTunes stuff adds seeds back to the mix.

BRILLIANT!!!!

[boputnam]

Mac,

I have ran signal tests and it has gone. The signal path is the same for both music and test tones. Therefore, I deduce my dear Watson, it must be the itunes.

RichThey are not the same - there is a different device and power supply.

I noticed some weirdness off your iPod when I was there - I thought we talked about it, but we pretty quickly went to CD's.

It may not be iTunes, per se, but something in your particular iPod signal path to the beloved 4345's...

[pelly3s]

Unless the files are ripped into your computer at a full uncompressed wav file then you will run into some false information in the music (reguardless of compression). I would firmly believe that is your problem.

[richluvsound]

Pelly,

I have alot of stuff ripped wav. I just put more memory in the mac . Them little wav files sure eat up gig. I'll have to go through the my collection and re-rip the lossless to wav.

Does one one dac cancel out the other, or do they double up on the signal ?
is there a better way to get the signal from the the mac ?

Has anyone had experience of a usb dac ?

Rich

[Ian Mackenzie]

Rich,

Can I suggest the issue has always been there and has been un masked with Bo's skillful eq. As a result the system is more transparent and you are hearing the problem further up stream

You may recall I explained previously that biamping (and attention to eq) would clear the midrange up when properly set up.

It could also be that your ear/bain is now un learning the previously mess and is becoming more aware of what is now coming out of the system.

F%^& off the Mac and play some real music.

[timc]

Fuck off the Mac and play some real music.



Thumbs up! :applaud:

[Ian Mackenzie]

A USB dac will help but it aint going to be AAA HiFi diddly de that you Pommie's crave for.

It really is counter productive to everything your have done recently.

You are better of buying a Squeeze Box if you want your stuff on call imho.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I have alot of stuff ripped wav.
Rich


Jack The Ripper ripped up all his music until he could not bare to ear it no more!:D
http://www.slimdevices.com/ (http://www.slimdevices.com/)

[richluvsound]

Ian,

Squeeze box ?

do you have a link where I can do some reading ?

sometimes I dont know what to say to you :D LOL

Rich

[Ian Mackenzie]

Ian,

Squeeze box ?

do you have a link where I can do some reading ?

sometimes I dont know what to say to you :D LOL

Rich
http://www.slimdevices.com/

It has been around for a while, see the transporter ..there are reviews on 6moons.com also

http://www.stereophile.com/mediaservers/207slim/

[hjames]

Pelly,

I have alot of stuff ripped wav. I just put more memory in the mac . Them little wav files sure eat up gig. I'll have to go through the my collection and re-rip the lossless to wav.
Rich

Umm, once its been compressed, the missing data is gone. You can't rerip from a compressed format to a less compressed format.
You can rip from your CDs direct to WAV - no doubt you'll want a larger hard drive. I started adding external hard drives for my use. This case works with either Firewire or USB2 and holds 2 IDE drives - I've got a pair of 500Gig 7200rpm Seagate Barracuda drives in there, for a terrabyte of external storage (iTunes and iPhoto eat some space!). These days I have a second one beside it for Time machine (backups).
I got them from Other World Computers (Macsales.com) (http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/MEFW912AL2/)
Case is about $100, drives are about $120 (each) these days.
You can buy them preassembled with noname drives, but I like the barracudas.

[grumpy]

not to be contradictory for it's own sake, but -if- the compression was lossless, then
as long as you have the code to decompress, then you're back to the original
binary file in whatever format it started from (in which case, it isn't really what I'd
call "ripping", but whatever...) :) -grumpy

[timc]

not to be contradictory for it's own sake, but -if- the compression was lossless, then
as long as you have the code to decompress, then you're back to the original
binary file in whatever format it started from (in which case, it isn't really what I'd
call "ripping", but whatever...) :) -grumpy



I guess the question is if lossless really is lossless.....


-Tim

[John W]

Is there a usb device that will give me a digital out via coax ?



Here is a device I've been meaning to try.

http://www.hagtech.com/hagusb.html

[boputnam]

...As a result the system is more transparent and you are hearing the problem further up stream

You may recall I explained previously that biamping (and attention to eq) would clear the midrange up when properly set up.

It could also be that your ear/bain is now un learning the previously mess and is becoming more aware of what is now coming out of the system.Great post.

That is symptomatic of everyone who emerges from the veils of poor system balance, in all it's forms... :)

[cooky1257]

Hey Rich, One fix posted on the mac discussion boards is to disable the equaliser (not just set flat) in iTunes.I'd also go into system prefs-sound- and try switching off effects, mute the analogue out etc to see if it clears.
Frank

[richluvsound]

Great post.

That is symptomatic of everyone who emerges from the veils of poor system balance, in all it's forms... :)

Does this mean I have graduated from nowhere to somewhere ?:D


Rich

[boputnam]

Does this mean I have graduated from nowhere to somewhere ?:DHa! You bet.

And now you're getting picky! :rotfl:

[Ian Mackenzie]

The particular loudspeaker in question is also notoriously picky and has rendered many owners play lists short.

Thus you may only need a single draw cd player after all.

[richluvsound]

Hey Rich, One fix posted on the mac discussion boards is to disable the equaliser (not just set flat) in iTunes.I'd also go into system prefs-sound- and try switching off effects, mute the analogue out etc to see if it clears.
Frank

Cheers Frank,

I was using the iTunes Pre to get an extra 12 db of gain . The Deqx is a little shy of umff ! Do you remember Shriekback ? :p

Rich

Ps , you get your new dia yet ?

[richluvsound]

Ha! You bet.

And now you're getting picky! :rotfl:

:D Next month it'll be Krunchy's turn.

I aint done bad though, have I ? I had two great guy's( engine drivers) come thousands of miles to help me turn my friskey girls into vivacious wives.

I still have balance the amp outputs. I guess I just have to use my ears for that.

And along came a parcel from the US and it starts again. :applaud:

Rich

[cooky1257]

Cheers Frank,

I was using the iTunes Pre to get an extra 12 db of gain . The Deqx is a little shy of umff ! Do you remember Shriekback ? :p

Rich

Ps , you get your new dia yet ?

No sign of dias yet,
Shreikback? would that be "My spine is the bassline"? Yes I do:)
F

[Guido]

Listening to music out of a computer :hmm: :no:

Wait till the CD Player arrives and you'll be fine ;)

[modena]

...is there a better way to get the signal from the the mac ?

Has anyone had experience of a usb dac ?


1. Using the (bit perfect) Airport Express digital output to dac digital input, using Belkin's mini-to-toshlink optical cable.
2. A Musiland MD10 USB dac.
3. A ESI Waveterminal U24 to convert USB-to-COAX or Toshlink and feed a. A NOS Lite Dac-AH and b. A Benchmark DAC-1 (2005 model)
4. From Mac digital out, straight to DAC with Minijack-to-Toshlink cable.

Speakers were JBL Studio L880s, biamped by two Trends TA 10.1 amps with Dared SL2000A tube pre. (that was before i got my 4430s)

Itunes playback: UNchecked Crossfade Playback, Sound Enhancer and Sound Check. Ripping to AIFF (or WAV) with Error Correction checked.
Audio MIDI setup to 44,1/16bit. (No upsampling)

To my ears, connection nr.4 was the worst sounding, but rest three connections sound about the same (using the same DAC) and any sliiiiiiiight differences i had noticed, might was just placebo effect.

George

[Krunchy]

:D Next month it'll be Krunchy's turn.
Rich

You're a funny guy! :D :applaud:

[richluvsound]

Thanks George,

maybe I'll see if I can get the Elgin's back for you :p

I do find the coax sounds better ,especially over the distance I'm running.

I tried with out the enhancer. I prefer the sound with it . It seems to open things up a bit.

I have a problem with the cd in the iMac. It wont play or even recognise a cd.

It plays DVD fine ,but not bloody cd's:banghead: I have checked everything-got any ideas?

I cant find audio midi set up either. Spotlight cant find it . It should be in applications , right ?

Rich

[hjames]

In Leopard -
Go to (system) Preferences
CDs & DVDs
"When you insert a music CD, (select) Open iTunes"
(or select "Run other application" if you use something else)

or, is it not Leopard?




I have a problem with the cd in the iMac. It wont play or even recognise a cd.

It plays DVD fine ,but not bloody cd's:banghead: I have checked everything-got any ideas?

I cant find audio midi set up either. Spotlight cant find it . It should be in applications , right ?

Rich

[modena]

Thanks George,

maybe I'll see if I can get the Elgin's back for you :p

I do find the coax sounds better ,especially over the distance I'm running.

I tried with out the enhancer. I prefer the sound with it . It seems to open things up a bit.

I have a problem with the cd in the iMac. It wont play or even recognise a cd.

It plays DVD fine ,but not bloody cd's:banghead: I have checked everything-got any ideas?

I cant find audio midi set up either. Spotlight cant find it . It should be in applications , right ?

Rich
Rich
Go to Applications> Utilities>AudioMidi setup.app
Assuming u have latest version of iTunes and your DEQX is capable of 24/96, set Audio Output to 96000,0Hz and 2ch-24bit. iTunes must be launched AFTER the sample rate is set in AudioMIDI.
That way u tell CoreAudio to send 24/96 streams to the 24/96 (?) dacs of DEQX. Your CD's ripped files are "only" 16/44,1 so iTunes will upsample everything to 24/96. (Latest iTunes upsampling algorithms are pretty good!)
You can always set it back to 16/44.1 if you don't like the sound, and let your DEQX handle the 16/44.1 stream. (remember to always quit iTunes before changing settings to AudioMidi)
If you have purchased (or u've ripped) 24/96 music, u must set AudioMidi to 24/96, else iTunes will downsample to 16/44.1...(u don't want this)

For CD playback, do what hjames suggested. Or go to iTunes>preferences>Advanced>Importing and select from the "On CD Insert" popup menu.

important!... Make sure u always keep iTunes volume to maximum.

Hope these will help

George

One more thing! If u prefer the "Enhancer On" sound, try this, just for fun! With equalizer, make a new preset with preamp gain to -12db and move all sliders to +12db.

[richluvsound]

One more thing! If u prefer the "Enhancer On" sound, try this, just for fun! With equalizer, make a new preset with preamp gain to -12db and move all sliders to +12db.[/QUOTE]
Heather, George,
So, I tried it . Distortion galore. I've gone back to your original suggested set up .:D

I still cant find the midi set up :banghead: Do I have to reboot with the Leopard install disk or can I just down load it from somewhere. Can I email to myself from my macbook (leopard)

The cd just wont work . It has to be a setting somewhere ! Apple want $ 400 to replace the cd drive:blink:

Rich

[readswift]

no ( zero ) reason to upsample 24/96 before DEQX.

1. Either get a real soundcard ( Lynx , RME) - AES / EBU output
2. high quality (megabucks) transport - CD or hdd based - AES / EBU output
3. middle price range transport - slimdevices or Wadia Ipod dock
Spdif output.


Spdif sux. :)

[richluvsound]

Hey Readswift,

where's that wonder DAC your working on ?

Rich

[readswift]

roundup:

middle price range : slimdevices squeezebox vs. wadia ipood dock (1-0) (K.O.)
megabucks range: slimdevices Transporter™ (http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_transporter.html) vs. regular cd transport (1-0)(K.O.)

I would exclude macintosh vs pc cause thats the boutique question, I would not use either for serious listening, unless you access it from another room , terminal style , isolated AES / EBU or async USB (rare bird and most of USB cables suck )
http://www.slimdevices.com/ (http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_overview.html?)
http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/04/wadia-digital-intros-itransport-the-audiophiles-ipod-dock/

[readswift]

Hey Readswift,

where's that wonder DAC your working on ?

Rich

Spdif should be used with BNC cable.

DAC: there are so many components we have at least a year ahead. BTW it goin to have AES/ EBU , async USB and DSP too. No spdif this time. :barf:

[modena]

Rich

In Applications, there is a folder called Utilities.
Open it, u see AudioMidi setup.app

George

[cooky1257]

One more thing! If u prefer the "Enhancer On" sound, try this, just for fun! With equalizer, make a new preset with preamp gain to -12db and move all sliders to +12db.
Heather, George,
So, I tried it . Distortion galore. I've gone back to your original suggested set up .:D

I still cant find the midi set up :banghead: Do I have to reboot with the Leopard install disk or can I just down load it from somewhere. Can I email to myself from my macbook (leopard)

The cd just wont work . It has to be a setting somewhere ! Apple want $ 400 to replace the cd drive:blink:

Rich[/QUOTE]

Rich, try this, go to your hard drive then do a search.
Frank

[richluvsound]

this is all I can find !

Or am I just :o:

[readswift]

Now I see Ian already mentioned slimdevices , Cheers!! :thmbsup::yes:

Rich, macintosh spdif out sucks because it has an embedded clock that is corrupted by the DC DC converters + switching power supply and this manifests itself as phase noise, it is sent thru the spdif cable into the deqx as well.
Im not sure distortion is linked to this behavior. If you not experienced with MSB dac then you sohuld try the squeezebox with deqx for real, even better rent a Transporter, preconfigured to a degree.

[richluvsound]

Readswift,

So how do these work with the internal clock ?

[modena]

this is all I can find !

Or am I just :o:

Ok. seems we have two issues. 1. Audio setup and 2. Audio CDs playback.
1. If Utilities Folder is missing from Applications, afraid u have to do a clean install from Mac OS X install Disc.
2. Don't even think paying $400 for the drive. (Is it combo or superdrive?)
First, see if there are any firmware updates available from Software update. Check if this happens to ALL audio CDs (bought, or burned) If this happens on bought cds, check if there is any kind of copy protection label on CD covers.
But I assume u have already checked these.
Last.. Create another user account and see if u have the same problem.

Then... u have to assume u have a drive failure... (quite strange though, as it reads + plays DVD discs! ) and u will replace it... easy!!!

http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/imacg5_20inch_OpticalDrive.pdf

George

[readswift]

apogee is way overpriced and bad as example because both of these are either usb or firewire.