Refoam Advice in NJ

[sekess]

Hi All,

I am new here -- first post -- great forum.
Was hoping someone might be able to point me in the right direction. I live in Northen NJ and I need to get a 2245 refoamed.
Does anyone have experience with or know of a quality service center that can repair this driver? Or at least, can someone guide me as to how to go about finding a place that does quality work.

Thanks,
Steve

[Fangio]

http://www.jblproservice.com/service/index.html

click NJ – some local members should be able to recommend one or two..

[brad347]

hey-- I'm also in north NJ and I have a pair of 2245H that need refoaming.

I want to follow up on this and see if the OP found someone he was happy with.

I've used Gabriel Sound in Pompton Lakes (www.speakerrecone.com) and while they did an excellent job both times I used them (4 drivers total), they are VERY expensive.

I think it was $150/pair for my 122a and $110/pair for my LE-8s.

Extrapolating that, I'd bet at a minimum that the pair of 2245s would be north of $200 and I just can't stomach that.

Any other good options?

[robertbartsch]

Gabreil Sound is very capable and I have used them many times. Erik just finsihed a re-cone of some Altec 416s with GPA kits.

If you have some time to visit the shop it is an interesting place.

[hjames]

Well, JBL never made replacement foams ... so anyone reFOAMing them is doing so with aftermarket parts anyway. Its not real hard to do, just real messy and time consuming.
I've refoamed a 15 woofer and a pair of 10s - 18s ought to be a piece of cake to refoam yourself - just get parts from Rick Cobb - his parts are well spoken of around here -
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?28013-Rick-Cobb-Looneytunes-Replacement-Foam-Rings



hey-- I'm also in north NJ and I have a pair of 2245H that need refoaming.

I want to follow up on this and see if the OP found someone he was happy with.

I've used Gabriel Sound in Pompton Lakes (www.speakerrecone.com (http://www.speakerrecone.com)) and while they did an excellent job both times I used them (4 drivers total), they are VERY expensive.

I think it was $150/pair for my 122a and $110/pair for my LE-8s.

Extrapolating that, I'd bet at a minimum that the pair of 2245s would be north of $200 and I just can't stomach that.

Any other good options?

[brad347]

Gabreil Sound is very capable and I have used them many times. Erik just finsihed a re-cone of some Altec 416s with GPA kits.

If you have some time to visit the shop it is an interesting place.

Yeah, I've been to the shop both times. Both times they did outstanding work.

however, both times they also semi-quoted me a price on the phone, then when I got there it was a few dollars more.

For example, with my LE8s, on the phone they said "about 50 bucks apiece." Then when I got there it was "that's $55 each, and we'll need 50% as a deposit." I guess technically that is "about 50 bucks apiece," but I wish they would've just said "$55 apiece" on the phone and told me about the deposit ahead of time so I was prepared. Similar thing happened with my 122a pair, though I don't remember the exact 'soft quote.' IIRC, they gave me a "range" and the actual quote was about 5 bucks more than the range. What's a few dollars, so I didn't argue because I'm easy like that, but if it happens more than once it gives you pause.

Neither time were they overly friendly-- I didn't get much of a positive vibe while I was there, but I'm pretty sensitive to interpersonal type stuff. May not bother most people, but if I'm paying more than anyone else charges for the same thing, I not only want the best work but the best service, as well. It is an interesting place.

If it's truly the best game in town, I'll bite the bullet and pay what seems to be top dollar again. I wouldn't say I had a "negative" experience there, but I certainly wouldn't say I had a "positive" one.

That's just ONE person's experience.

[brad347]

Well, JBL never made replacement foams ... so anyone reFOAMing them is doing so with aftermarket parts anyway. Its not real hard to do, just real messy and time consuming.
I've refoamed a 15 woofer and a pair of 10s - 18s ought to be a piece of cake to refoam yourself - just get parts from Rick Cobb - his parts are well spoken of around here -
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?28013-Rick-Cobb-Looneytunes-Replacement-Foam-Rings

I'd love to give it a try myself, but I just don't want this very nice pair of drivers to be my "guinea pig."

I'm a pretty handy guy, especially with electronics repairs, although this doesn't really qualify-- so I really should just give it a try on my own.

There are so many threads on various fora and so many tutorials with conflicting information, each side more opinionated than the last about the proper way to center the voice coil in the gap, etc. It has made me a touch gun shy. If there was one clear 'best way,' I'd give it a go.

What are the consequences of failure and the typical pitfalls? If it doesn't come out perfect the first time, can I remove the foam and try again without great risk of damage to the cone? I understand the two most common methods of centering the VC in the gap, but is there a proper method for determining the 'starting height' of the cone, if that makes sense? I mean I'm sure the voice coil has to be hung at a relatively particular spot to have the right amount of travel as the speaker compresses and rarefies?

Maybe I'll start with cleaning the old foam off, and if I have good success with that step, I'll decide if I want to proceed myself.

[brad347]

and yes,,,if you do a bad one, they can be removed and re-done...s/b no damage.

I'm gettin' an itchy trigger finger.... really feeling like diving in and doing this pair.

I know I can do it. It just seems like each pair that needs done I say "not this pair... they're too nice."

Either I buy a crap pair of speakers I don't want just to prove to myself it's easy, or dive right in.

I'll do some more reading, but right now I'm leaning in the "dive right in" direction. I bet I would be more careful than anyone else, anyway, since they're my speakers and I care about them.

[herki the cat]

If I were in your shoes...wud locate a cheaper pair needing refoam, practice on those...when you find out how easy it is and have some confidence...tackle the big ones.
and yes,,if you do a bad one, they can be removed and re-done...s/b no damage.

herki:
Without cutting the dome cap off, how do you remove the the cap from the cone to access the gap to use shims? GordonW recommends shims only!

[hjames]

herki:
Without cutting the dome cap off, how do you remove the the cap from the cone to access the gap to use shims? GordonW recommends shims only!
you don't cut the dome off and shim it - you remove the old foam, clean the frame, glue the new foam ring to the back of the speaker ONLY, let it set up slightly, then glue it to the speaker frame and play the test tones to be sure its centered. Once you are sure you let the tones play while its drying ...

But - don't follow me, Bo posted the whole directions here as a sticky, I did the 15 in my B380 based on his notes,
and lots of us have followed his directions since he posted it!

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?469-Resurround-Step-by-step

be sure to start with Post #1 and read forward ...

And if you like, buy a cheap 12 or 15 and practice on that before working on your 18s ...

Honestly, the bigger the ring, the easier it is to work on ... 8s and 10s are tougher than 15s

Here's one of Bo's pix showing his cleanup work on a 10 inch woof ...

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=322&stc=1&d=1058237299

[brad347]

OK, I'm doing it. Ordering the kits today.

Why not jump in feet first.

I'm a reasonably smart, careful person and I love doing stuff myself. I always love a good project.

Will order the kit today from Rick Cobb.

[rdgrimes]

I've done the LE14s, they are the easiest I've ever done. The surround is narrow and the cone nearly centers itself. the 18s are very similar and should be fairly easy to do.

[brad347]

Kit from Rick Cobb ordered.

Thanks for the encouragement.

[boputnam]

OK, I'm doing it. Ordering the kits today.

Why not jump in feet first.

I'm a reasonably smart, careful person and I love doing stuff myself. I always love a good project.

Will order the kit today from Rick Cobb.Give it a go.

We encourage a full recone when possible / affordable - it is the only proper way to go. But in the interim, unless you're all thumbs and sloppy, you will not harm the critical bits of any driver/motor doing a simple re-surround.

Be careful on your cleaning efforts - it's easy to get impatient. Use MEK sparingly, but repeatedly, to deal with the gooey areas on the frame (and the cone, too) that prove difficult. And, follow Rick's instructions to the letter - USE THAT 30Hz TEST TONE DURING THE DRYING STAGE and do not leave the workbench until the glue has dried clear. Keep an ear for voice coil rubbing - it's quite a distinct (and gut wrenching) sound. .

I did a neighbor's vintage pair of '75 Bose 301's this week. Oh, stop it! They were HIS! :p Rick's kits fit super and the job was done in +6-hrs elapsed time.

[brad347]

boputnam, what is "improper" about a re-surround, in your opinion?

Is driver performance compromised in any clear way?

I still plan on doing this, but I'm just curious.

[Robh3606]

One thing you need to remember is the x-max on these drivers. The coil alignment won't tolerate as much tilt as you could get away with on a lower excursion driver. Take your time and definately use the tone.

Rob:)

[brad347]

I'm sure the kit instructions will make it all clear, but how loud do you play the 30Hz tone during centering and drying?

[bigyank]

I'm sure the kit instructions will make it all clear, but how loud do you play the 30Hz tone during centering and drying?

Do NOT play the tone loudly or problems will occur, guaranteed. What you want to do is induce a small amount of movement so you can listen for the voice coil rub. I use a CD player and a small integrated amp when I redo surrounds. Remember that gravity is your friend here and the best advice I can give is to read the read previously posted link (more than once :D) and to take your time. I use clothes pins to attach the surround to the frame and aid in ensuring the cone is centered if needed. Good luck and post pics.

Yank

[grumpy]

IIRC (no guarantee), Rick's instructions talk about the 30Hz tone...
(i.e., where to set the volume knob to approach a suggested displacement
at various stages in the process).

[boputnam]

I'm sure the kit instructions will make it all clear, but how loud do you play the 30Hz tone during centering and drying?The instructions are quite clear, and slow paced. Do it in steps.

And, review this thread, again: Resurround Step-by-Step

Once cleaned, and both the frame (basket) and the cone are prepared, you will glue the surround to the back (in this case) of the cone. Try a dry fit first, and get accustomed to what it will all feel like before you do it with glue.

1. Glue the surround to the cone. Beneath the cone edge, apply an even glue bead to the surround's innermost edge, working slowly around the entirety. Gently join the cone with the surround. A bit of glue might ease out - this is water soluble for a while so don't freak - you can dab it with a teeny paint brush to remove (keep a water dish and paper towels handy). The glue will shink a bit and dries clear, so don't worry about a little bead around the edge of the cone.

Heat lamps are excellent aids in this - they keep the temp right and can speed-up the curing. Not too hot. Let this dry for +2-hrs, or until the glue is clear.

2. Glue the surround to the frame (basket). First, connect the binding posts to a speaker output from your stereo - be careful to not let the +/- touch. Play the 30Hz test tone at low volume - listen to the flutter of the cone. Very gently push the cone off center and you will hear the painful rasping of the voice coil scraping the sides of the gap. Not a good sound, huh? That is what you want to avoid.

The cone should not flutter more than 1/4" - 1/8" is plenty.

Apply an even glue bead to the frame - poking the nipple of the glue container between the surround and frame, work slowly around the frame. Let the surround settle onto the frame and it should mostly center itself. If you hear rasping, you need to push/pull on the surround/frame join to gently recenter the surround. Keep the heat lamps on, keep the test tone playing and stand at attention for the 20-minutes it takes the glue to set. Do not leave!

Do only one speaker at a time.

[brad347]

I have read that thread over many times, thanks again.

Thanks also for the step-by-step recap.

They didn't come today-- probably tomorrow.

I went and bought several small clippy/clampy things from my local mom-n-pop hardware store. I've been doing a lot of reading online and I saw in many places where it was suggested to use clothespins or similar to clamp the gasket on top of the surround edge while drying.

[boputnam]

I went and bought several small clippy/clampy things from my local mom-n-pop hardware store. I've been doing a lot of reading online and I saw in many places where it was suggested to use clothespins or similar to clamp the gasket on top of the surround edge while drying.IMO, that is a really bad idea. I've done dozens of these - many brands, many sizes - and the last thing that would work is to try and secure the surround while it is drying.

I've only had a few that proved difficult - the 116H can be a real trouble - but if you stay with the project while the glue cures, you are good. The 30Hz tone serves to help the assembly center itself. Trouble is, to hear properly, you cannot have any music/radio playing - so it gets a bit boring. But, you need to listen carefully for the obvious rubbing sound (as compared to the flutter which is OK), and massage the assembly into center.

No clamps, no clips. 2¢

[brad347]

no clamping-- check.

Thanks for the heads-up.

Hopefully I'll be able to get cracking on these tomorrow.