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subwoof
02-19-2008, 01:17 PM
Found some old literature from my employer back in the 70's. I am still digging thru those binders and I think there were a few others.

These are the cut sheets for the JBL made compression drivers that were sold to Dukane for their line of install products. At the same time JBL was selling to Heath, RCA, Fender, Sunn, Peavey ( yes..! ), General railway, tideland signals and of course, the military ( shhh ).

After 1981 or so, when the alnico was kept in-house by JBL, Dukane changed the driver source to a japanese company ( panasonic heavy industries?? ) and these are the vast majority that show up on ebay ( with the SAME number - thanks a lot ). They can be ID'ed by the METRIC hardware and recessed allen bolts on the rear cap.

Speculation is common about the types of diaphrams that were made and for who. Check with the "goes into" list on JBL's website for a little more info BUT I am sure that a lot of NLA material has been purged.

NOTE that if JBL made a component, it SAYS SO on the foilcal. That will end all arguments.

SP350 = 175HP ( pro number 2460 then became 2461 )
SP355 = 275HP ( no pro number until 2470 )
5A360 = 375 / 2440 with STAINLESS STEEL diaphram ! )

The "transducer" is the venerable slot ( 077 ) that had removable wedges inside the horn so it could be tailored to a specific intersection. More on that in the definitive " ring radiator rodeo and revue " coming up in about 2 weeks. Gonna need photoshop for this one.

sub ( and sometimes tweet )

subwoof
05-05-2008, 06:20 AM
A seller in indiana has posted a pair of Dukane / JBL's on ebay but there are small errors on both listings.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Dukane-JBL-5A360-Horn-Driver-375-Match_W0QQitemZ290228191638QQihZ019QQcategoryZ4709 2QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

The 5A360 is the exact same driver as the Pro 2440 or consumer 375 BUT BUT has a stainless steel diaphram that ( if I remember right ) has the same wider gap as the phenolics and cannot be rediaphrammed into a 375. However it's been almost 30 years since one was open on my bench...:)

The second one's description / picture ( 5A355 ) ( not P ) are both wrong. The 5A355 is a rebadged 2480 ( phenolic ) 2" ( note there are 4 bolts ) and cannot fit the Al / Ti diaphrams.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Dukane-JBL-5A355-Horn-Driver-275HP-Match_W0QQitemZ290228193351QQihZ019QQcategoryZ4709 2QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

sub

spkrman57
05-05-2008, 06:36 AM
Thanks for posting!

Ron

Earl K
05-05-2008, 09:09 AM
The 5A360 is the exact same driver as the Pro 2440 or consumer 375 BUT BUT has a stainless steel diaphram that ( if I remember right ) has the same wider gap as the phenolics and cannot be rediaphrammed into a 375. However it's been almost 30 years since one was open on my bench...

The second one's description / picture ( 5A355 ) ( not P ) are both wrong. The 5A355 is a rebadged 2480 ( phenolic ) 2" ( note there are 4 bolts ) and cannot fit the Al / Ti diaphrams.


- My JBL service documents ( from the mid 70s to early 80s ) quite clearly telegraph that Dukane had 3 basic compression driver types built for them by JBL .

These are the suffixes that denote basic body type .

(i) 350 ( le175 body size )
(ii) 355 ( le85 body size )
(iii) 360 ( 375 body size )

A middle initial denoted diaphragm material type.

"P" equates to phenolic
"A" equates to aluminum ( about the "stainless steel" diaphragm, I know nothing )

- Mid 70s' to mid 80s' replacement diaphragms were sourced from whatever parts JBL decided was the best match .

- So, in the seventies & mid-eighties ;

(i) The small body 1" ; 5(A or P) 350 was (re)fitted (ie; fixed ) with either a D16R2410 or D16R2460 diaphragm .

(ii) The larger body 1" ; 5(A or P) 355 was (re)fitted (ie; fixed ) with either a D16R2420 or D16R2470 diaphragm .

(iii) The 2" driver : 5(A or P) 360 was (re)fitted (ie; fixed ) with either a D16R2440 or the D16R375AB depending on the "A" or "P" designation .

- FWIW, the 375AB was a "fog-horn" driver that had no phase-plug. ( I'm not suggesting that the Dukane 5P 360 lacks a phase-plug ).
- The D16R375AB shares the same "test parameters" as the 2480 . Healthy DCR for the 5P 360 is 5.5 - 6.7 ohms ( which is the same as what is listed for the 2480 ) .

- JBL ( from 1976 to 1984 ) doesn't list the D16R2480 , as "fitting / going into" a 5P 360 .
- Also, the D16R375AB is not listed as "going into" a 2480 / but is listed as the replacement diaphragm for the 375AB/EX/FH/HP, 5P360, MI-11426 / MI-11426A ( drivers oemed for RCA ) .
- The suggestion here is that there's something unique about the phenolic domed D16R375AB ( 5P360 ) that differentiates it from a stock D16R2480 ( 2480 ) .

- Opening up a 5P360 to try sizing different 4" diaphragms is the only way to see what's really possible .

:)

Robh3606
05-05-2008, 09:32 AM
FWIW Here's the current list as JBL has it.

Rob:)

Earl K
05-05-2008, 09:42 AM
Here's the current list as JBL has it.

RobH

- I think you need to add a "FWIW" ( at the front of your quoted text ) .

- ie; I'd love to see any JBL tech. try to fit-up a 2440 diaphragm into the 5x350 small-body type ( 5P350 ). ;)

:)

ps; Thanks Rob !

subwoof
05-05-2008, 06:10 PM
I remember working on a boatload of the phenolic '355 drivers that got zapped by lightning once. The stupid tinsel lead just burnt off at the wire terminal so I was actually able to resolder 1/2 of them. The place I worked at had a room full of JBL, Dukane, Atlas, university, etc dia's and parts and often it was "see what fits and tweak"

I still have my old dukane "sound system design" book and some of the cut sheets ( like the ones I posted ) but can't seem to find the big phenolic one...someday it will turn up. When the place did a big cleanout I rescued a big pile of JBL info but the service update binder was kept...I wonder if they still have it???

Worth a call...

Here is the pronote that came in on june 30, 1978 about the diaphrams but it doesn't give much detail.

BTW - it was COMMON practice to swap around the foilcals and there was a box of them when I worked there. Dukane was very good about proofreading their published info. And we all know how good JBL was....not...

sub

Earl K
05-06-2008, 07:40 AM
FWIW :
- Here's a compilation pic that's shows the available recone parts ( in 1988 ) for some Dukane & RCA transducers .

:)

subwoof
05-06-2008, 09:16 AM
Another JBL typo....notice the 2240 instead of 2440 on the last item???

....sigh....

4313B
05-06-2008, 09:36 AM
Yeah, JBL documentation drove me insane for years. Now I just don't care. :) The two guys who could remember most of it (at one time) don't really seem to care anymore either. Oh well. :dont-know

Found some old literature from my employer back in the 70's.It's amazing how much of that stuff was thrown out over the years. They really went to alot of trouble to document things. I think there was a greater sense of permanence then. It's too bad that misdocumentation occured with revisions and conversions.

Earl K
05-06-2008, 09:41 AM
the evil typo strikes again...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another JBL typo....notice the 2240 instead of 2440 on the last item???

....sigh....

Yeh, I saw that & decided to include it for "effect" . ;) I guess I better add my own "FWIW" into the title .

The sad thing is that these typos seem to have a life of all their own .

:)

4313B
05-06-2008, 09:49 AM
The sad thing is that these typos seem to have a life of all their own .Oftentimes it's due to people who have no knowledge of the product doing the documentation; the numbers all run together or something. That isn't always true though. I've seen Engineering Design Standards with errors on them made by people with a vested interest.

subwoof
05-21-2008, 11:33 AM
Does anybody know what time it is??

It's time to open the Dukane driver spotted on ebay a few weeks back.

My memory said that it was a rebadged 2480...
Earl K had a numbering scheme that said aluminum dia.
The JBL sheet says it's a 2421 *one inch* driver...

Ready??

subwoof
05-21-2008, 11:37 AM
Found a sharp Xacto knife to break the wax...
Then a long, hard screwdriver to bust them loose...

See how long that took??
Even after answering the phone and finding the right TOOL.

subwoof
05-21-2008, 11:44 AM
And the answer.

After flowers, dinner and drinks ( bidding buying and shipping )
And I find out it's the same as always...came in second again.

A 2480 phenolic. And it looks like the tag is original too.

So my memory was correct, and the JBL / Dukane lit was wrong....??

So now it's get a cab time and put her on a shelf and never call back.

...sigh...

ps - earl: if you have the page from the old service sheet with that info could you post it?? I might stop by my old employer from back then when I am there on friday and see if *they* have something too.

sub

subwoof
06-09-2008, 06:02 PM
Gee whiz beaver, there's another one on ebay that has the SAME number but it's smaller!

By golly, you're right!

Let's ask Mr fixit down on main street for the reason!

*insert theme music here*

http://cgi.ebay.com/Dukane-JBL-horn-driver-12-pound-monster_W0QQitemZ260249777909QQihZ016QQcategoryZ73 372QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem