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spyrelx
02-17-2008, 02:06 PM
Hi,

I've just joined the forum and I have a question I'm hoping someone can help me with.

I've got two JBL 4312C monitors in very good condition, and I'm in the market for a 5.1 surround speaker system (my first).

I was thinking of replacing the JBLs but lately I've been wondering if I can use them as my two L/R fronts. My understanding is the Center speaker should "match" the two L/R fronts, so I'm wondering what sort of center I should buy if I keep the 4312Cs.

In addition, I'm generally curious about people's views on how good the 4312Cs are. I was thinking about spending $500-$1000 on the two fronts but if the 4312Cs are as good as what I might get for that money, I might just stay with them (assuming I can find a center that matches).

Thanks for your help.

Don C
02-17-2008, 06:56 PM
I think that another 4312C would be OK, if you like the ones you already have. They are not magnetically shielded though, so you can't put them very close to a CRT TV set. Here's a heck of a deal if you want something else. These probably won't last long, so act fast if you want one.
http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/product_detail.asp?urlMaterialNumber=S-CENTER-Z&status=

JBL 4645
02-17-2008, 08:33 PM
I think that another 4312C would be OK, if you like the ones you already have. They are not magnetically shielded though, so you can't put them very close to a CRT TV set. Here's a heck of a deal if you want something else. These probably won't last long, so act fast if you want one.
http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/product_detail.asp?urlMaterialNumber=S-CENTER-Z&status=

Welcome to the JBL site mate.:)

Thatís right and then youíll be able to match the tone though the use of matching amplifiers with an SPL db meter.

Use the other JBL for centre back surround single, placed directly on the centre line with front centre. Then buy another pair and use them for the sidewall surrounds, there wasnít that easy.

spyrelx
02-17-2008, 08:55 PM
I think that another 4312C would be OK, if you like the ones you already have. They are not magnetically shielded though, so you can't put them very close to a CRT TV set. Here's a heck of a deal if you want something else. These probably won't last long, so act fast if you want one.
http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/product_detail.asp?urlMaterialNumber=S-CENTER-Z&status=

Thanks for the responses. I don't want another 4312C for a center as they are pretty massive. (And so, no I don't want two more for satellites either). The S-Center-Z is appealing though.

Just to be clear, are you are saying the S-Center-Z is matched to the 4312Cs? Or is it that all JBL's are matched to each other? (Or is it that this "matching" think isn't really that big a deal?). I don't understand the reference by JBL4645 to use of an SPL db meter (I'm a newbie at this).

Don C
02-17-2008, 10:19 PM
No, the S-center is not going to be very well matched to the 4312Cs. I just mentioned it because it happens to be available for a good price right now. I can't think of anything that will match the big midrange of a 4312 as well as another 4312.

spyrelx
02-18-2008, 07:36 AM
No, the S-center is not going to be very well matched to the 4312Cs. I just mentioned it because it happens to be available for a good price right now. I can't think of anything that will match the big midrange of a 4312 as well as another 4312.

Thanks Don. Two more questions. First, is there any reason I couldn't use them as sides? They are pretty big for that purpose but I was thinking I might use them for a while.

Alternatively, if I keep them as fronts (and get a third for center), do you have a general view as to how good the 4312Cs are as fronts, particularly for music? I know this is very subjective but, as I mentioned above, when I started this process I was thinking about buying a pair of new fronts for $500-$1000. Now I'm wondering if I coud find something substantially better than the 4312Cs for that price.

Thanks again.

boputnam
02-18-2008, 02:54 PM
...do you have a general view as to how good the 4312Cs are as fronts, particularly for music? They should be fine, but they will be benefitted by careful addition of a sub - you did say 5.1, or are you now saying 2.0...?


...I know this is very subjective but, as I mentioned above, when I started this process I was thinking about buying a pair of new fronts for $500-$1000. Now I'm wondering if I could find something substantially better than the 4312Cs for that price.That, I do not know. However, I would steer you toward the 4313B's if you can find some. I own both and prefer the latter. I really need to sell my 4312's L,R, but they are fitted with the 128H - makes letting them go, hard! Anyway, one day...

spyrelx
02-19-2008, 07:37 AM
I'll be using them in 5.1 system but I play a lot of music (which I'd keep to two channel) and -- if I keep them -- would keep them as fronts.

I wrote JBL and they wrote me back saying I could use the LC1 as a center. What do you think?

http://www.jbl.com/home/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=LC1&Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA&cat=BFS&ser=SLS

JBL 4645
02-19-2008, 07:49 AM
I must insist you get a third for the centre channel mate, why skip on what wonders youíll hear and FEEL with a matching third JBL in the centre mate, priceless!http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/icons/icon14.gifhttp://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/icons/icon14.gifhttp://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/icons/icon14.gifhttp://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/icons/icon14.gifhttp://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/icons/icon14.gifhttp://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/icons/icon6.gif:applaud:

Akira
02-25-2008, 07:46 AM
Of course it is better to have a matched LCR arrangement. But, as long as the acoustic signature is similar and the physical alignment the same (front to back) it is my opinion that the results can be quite acceptable.

The center channel is dialog only and therefore IMO, a less than identical match will sound fine. The only time identical speakers are truely necessary is in the actual audio production or re-mix stage for picture. I mix films and at work use 5 matched Genelec's, but at home I have an unmatched system that is probably more representative of what a lot of people use. If I can make my home product sound good, then I know I have a great final product that will translate well in most situations.
While you need a full response center channel when mixing the final tracks to picture, for playback in a home situation I would rather have something small with limited low pass bandwidth that delivers clear dialog.

The center channels mentioned here should work fine with your system. Again, the center channel is probably the only channel where you can get away with a less than seamless match... the only exception being 5.1 music production. In this case a uniform front is much more critical because, unlike a movie where our ears will accept and sometimes desire a bit of acoustic separation from the overall mix where dialog is concerned, this is not a good quality for music production.
Still, I think you will be pleased with the results. If you don't like the results...you can always change, so what ever center channel you buy keep in mind a later upgrade to the matching pieces of that system.

spyrelx
02-25-2008, 09:52 AM
Thanks for the input but you said one thing that I don't understand.


Again, the center channel is probably the only channel where you can get away with a less than seamless match...

I was under the impression that the biggest concern about matching was the three fronts. That the sides didn't really need to match up, nor did the sub (i.e., they could be from different manufacturers, etc.). Are you saying something different about the sides/sub?

Thanks.

doyall
02-25-2008, 12:42 PM
Build you a center. Get an appropirate sized center box of any brand, one or two 104H-2/3's, one 035TiA and a crossover from a 4312C, all of which probably can be found relatively inexpensively on eBay (or you can just make the simple crossover) and put it all together. Run one 104H-x off the mid range and one off the low pass. You should be able to do it for less than $150. It will likely take some simple box modifications but it is very doable. I know because this is exactly what I did for my center.

jblnut
02-25-2008, 01:19 PM
I would think that's a good way to blow up a 104h. Even with a typical AV receiver cutting out the lows (below 100hz) by selecting "small" in the speaker setup, the 104 is not going to be happy putting out a lot of volume below 800hz or so. Maybe if you never drove it loud it would be OK, but I'm not sure that's an ideal solution. I'd find a real bass driver to run off the low pass instead of a 104. Maybe a 115H-1 for example ?

I totally agree with the other comments in this thread. I'm using the early 90's CL505 center with 4410 fronts. It's fine for most movies but on concert DVD's the tonal match isn't quite 100%. However, it's not bad enough that I've been motivated to do anything about it either so I suppose that says something.

As always, if it sounds good to you - that's what matters.

:)

jblnut





Run one 104H-x off the mid range and one off the low pass. You should be able to do it for less than $150. It will likely take some simple box modifications but it is very doable. I know because this is exactly what I did for my center.

Akira
02-25-2008, 10:06 PM
I was under the impression that the biggest concern about matching was the three fronts. That the sides didn't really need to match up, nor did the sub (i.e., they could be from different manufacturers, etc.). Are you saying something different about the sides/sub?

Thanks.
Just expressing my opinion. For movies I do not feel you need a uniform wave front between LCR. For music production you do...or at least you should.
For the rears, a lot of system's use di-poles just to spread the sound out enough, but again, if you listen to well mixed surround music production like Peter Gabriel, identical rears are really necessary.
It all depends on your level of expectation of what you are using your system for.

Bottom line: 5.1 music (only) and 5.1 picture have different demands. I find watching live concert video (surround) on an matched system OK to good, because the visual always over takes the audio and the mix is usually closer to the live experience, or how you would hear it in a hall. But, for music specially produced for 5.1 (still experimental) I would no more want to hear an unmatched system than I would using two different speakers for stereo playback.

Why don't you just borrow a fairly decent center speaker and try it out? That will tell you real fast whether you can live with the results. But if you do decide to just add the center to your existing setup...go for something that puts out a similar 'size' image and similar efficiency...not to mention similar acoustic signature---GO JBL.

spyrelx
02-27-2008, 07:51 PM
Thanks everyone for all the advice. I really appreciate it.