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View Full Version : What horns do these appear to be?



mikebake
02-16-2008, 03:42 PM
I'm thinking of rescuing these components before they collect more dust.
The lower cab seems to be a 4560BKA and the upper one contains unknown drivers, but they are almost certainly JBL. I haven't been up there for 4-5 years.

Robh3606
02-16-2008, 03:46 PM
Hello Mike

They look like the 2360 familly to me. Good luck

Rob:)

mikebake
02-16-2008, 03:56 PM
Seems right. I have a fun project in mind for them...............I'll keep you posted! It will be interesting to see what the subs are. Bldg. was constructed in about 1980. It is a mono system.

grumpy
02-16-2008, 04:03 PM
2365's perhaps (40x60deg variety)? + 2445 or 2446's...

mikebake
02-16-2008, 04:14 PM
2365's perhaps (40x60deg variety)? + 2445 or 2446's...
Probably close. 2360 short throw 2365 medium throw 2366 long throw. Not srue which I'm really hoping they are. These ahd to cover s distance of maybe 100-130 feet to the back of the theatre. I have to climb up there soon and refresh my memory. I am hoping the diaphragms are still good.

subwoof
02-16-2008, 06:49 PM
2365. easy to tell by the side flare and the 2366 was a good 24 inches deeper. I have a pair of them outside the wood shop door as mice condo's.

The throats alone were used briefly as the HF horn in the concert series wedge monitors and were given the model number 2396. JBL ground off the chain loops and bullnosed the outside edges. If you really need a tower speaker that's only a foot wide, use
these and (4) LE111H.

Think of it ( acoustically ) as a slot / slit diffraction source.

Think of it ( manly ) as a 2405 on steroids that can go to 800hz.

sub

macaroonie
02-16-2008, 06:56 PM
Yumeeeeeeeee:D

mikebake
02-16-2008, 08:02 PM
2365. easy to tell by the side flare and the 2366 was a good 24 inches deeper. I have a pair of them outside the wood shop door as mice condo's.

The throats alone were used briefly as the HF horn in the concert series wedge monitors and were given the model number 2396. JBL ground off the chain loops and bullnosed the outside edges. If you really need a tower speaker that's only a foot wide, use
these and (4) LE111H.

Think of it ( acoustically ) as a slot / slit diffraction source.

Think of it ( manly ) as a 2405 on steroids that can go to 800hz.

sub
Interesting. Thanks for the info.
You don't happen to have the mounting brackets for them, do you? ANy other thoughts on the 2365? I'm considering trying them on top of the quad 2226H boxes for my outdoor movie rig.

subwoof
02-16-2008, 09:23 PM
I do have a smattering of 236X brackets parked in the woodshop. I know I have at least 4 of the original issue wood ones and *maybe* some of the metals???? How many do you need? It's gonna be an expedition thru the snow drifts to see.

I gave a pair of 2309A's to "norealtalent" when he came shopping some time ago.

The advantage of full vertical pattern control is very noticeable in club settings but for you it will probably save a few squirrels from certain deafness when you do your outdoor "video" shows.

:)

mikebake
02-17-2008, 05:08 AM
Har!
Well, you nailed the horn; wanna make a stab at the cab hanging above in the photo?

subwoof
02-17-2008, 07:56 AM
Gee - a lot to go on NOT

get more pictures or dimensions.

you know - this site likes full frontal views...

:)

mikebake
02-17-2008, 09:33 AM
Gee - a lot to go on NOT

get more pictures or dimensions.

you know - this site likes full frontal views...

:)
Hey, that'd be easy; even I could get it then!! The front is 30 feet over the audience and not accessible (ast least easily) for viewing. I like the mystery.

subwoof
02-17-2008, 12:05 PM
Well my bet is it's a 4550 dual 15 horn. Since there are already 4560's there, and flying scoops ( 4520,4530 ) is a wasted effort, and there were essentially NO other JBL cabs black theater back then, I win.

Send beer.

sub

mikebake
02-17-2008, 02:20 PM
Someone said it looked like an MDF box; I thought of the 4550 too. I'd rather it be some sort of sub; little use for a 4550, but I'm sure it coud be fun somewhere. Come to think of it, it would be firing into the catwalk area and not at all into the audience, like a 4550 should be. It ain't pointed down like the other stuff.

SMKSoundPro
02-17-2008, 04:37 PM
2365. easy to tell by the side flare and the 2366 was a good 24 inches deeper. I have a pair of them outside the wood shop door as mice condo's.

The throats alone were used briefly as the HF horn in the concert series wedge monitors and were given the model number 2396. JBL ground off the chain loops and bullnosed the outside edges. If you really need a tower speaker that's only a foot wide, use
these and (4) LE111H.

Think of it ( acoustically ) as a slot / slit diffraction source.

Think of it ( manly ) as a 2405 on steroids that can go to 800hz.

sub

Question: Mount the "2396" vertically?

I have all of the parts.

Tell me more!

JBL 4645
02-17-2008, 05:10 PM
Hello Mike

They look like the 2360 familly to me. Good luck

Rob:)

Thatís my first guess as well 2360-A THX approved! :applaud:

I donít understand why the pay a guy to walk around on the cat walk and look at that dust, for heavens sakes they need a quick dusting down. :D

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=31028&stc=1&d=1203205323

subwoof
02-17-2008, 08:52 PM
Slit sources are vertical. You really should have 4-8 inches on each side to provide baffling but this is somewhat uncharted ( and/or documented on this site ) territory so it's an interesting application to test.

Here is the ONLY picture I have ever found on JBL's site OR thru the dealer paperwork we got back then...look closely at the floor monitors.

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/Concert_Series.pdf

with all these super large flatscreens it seems that a very narrow flanking pair of cabinets would be an advantage. if you don't incorporate LF, and keep it 2-3 way ( with slots ) then realistically a 12" wide cabinet with 2-4 JBL 10's ( I suggest the 2012H or the Nd version ) would absolutely KILL.

Now I want to play woodshop...I have 4 of those 10's and 2 2365 horns ( that no buyer ever would want to pay shipping on ) and 2450J drivers....Hmmmmmm

sub

ps - pay the guy?? look at his "middle" finger. He's digging for gold.

mikebake
02-18-2008, 06:06 AM
I'm wondering if the upper cab is a 4842...............

Or not..................
On 2nd look at 4842 pdf, the size seems close but not the hardware, etc.

mikebake
02-28-2008, 10:21 AM
Okay, boys, the sub is a double 18; drivers are side by side and above each one is a large port. Two 18's, two ports directly above. Can't seem to find it in the vintage section, at least yet. Any ideas?

grumpy
02-28-2008, 10:26 AM
rounds ports or slotted? (e.g. cab w/ 2268's inside...)

mikebake
02-28-2008, 10:28 AM
rounds ports or slotted? (e.g. cab w/ 2268's inside...)
Round, look like 6-8" diameter. Tried to get cell phone camera picture but the lights washed out the dark sub cabinet.
These cabs would be vintage 1980-ish.

mikebake
02-28-2008, 10:31 AM
Where is that doc that has what drivers were installed in what systems???

grumpy
02-28-2008, 10:41 AM
early 4642? (2241x2) I don't see 2240 systems other than the bandpass &
E155 seems too old...
??

mikebake
02-28-2008, 11:18 AM
Hmmm, I see, the 4642 has the slot port.....................

Tim Rinkerman
02-28-2008, 01:43 PM
4688's? The only enclosure I can find listed for double 18"s. JBL pro obsolete catalog.
duh..except the 4642's further up...

subwoof
02-28-2008, 02:08 PM
With the last hint we have a winner:

Look in this brochure for the 4842A:
http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/Concert_Series.pdf

There was a particle board install version that was used in the cinema series ( 4642 and 4642-4 )

Betcha that these are the *first* generation that had differences when compared to the final version. JBL did this on some of the cinema and early generation "custom shop" stuff. I bought a pile of orphans from JBL at the '97 namm show and they were sent from the Kearney, NE fabshop. There were model numbers and mods that I have never seen before or since.

It sucks that the JBL site is NOT complete with the old cut sheets - I found this in the big orange binder that came with dealer packages in the late 80's.

Note that it says "preliminary"

sub ( 8.5% Belgium dubble ale please )

grumpy
02-28-2008, 02:28 PM
three port holes would have made for less head scratching...:) I thought there were just
two? pic looks like a custom plywood job (believe JBL did stuff like this, and still does ?)

-grumpy

mikebake
02-28-2008, 05:07 PM
With the last hint we have a winner:

Look in this brochure for the 4842A:
http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/Concert_Series.pdf

There was a particle board install version that was used in the cinema series ( 4642 and 4642-4 )

Betcha that these are the *first* generation that had differences when compared to the final version. JBL did this on some of the cinema and early generation "custom shop" stuff. I bought a pile of orphans from JBL at the '97 namm show and they were sent from the Kearney, NE fabshop. There were model numbers and mods that I have never seen before or since.

It sucks that the JBL site is NOT complete with the old cut sheets - I found this in the big orange binder that came with dealer packages in the late 80's.

Note that it says "preliminary"

sub ( 8.5% Belgium dubble ale please )
I was counting on you. I already saw these, but the ones in question do have only two ports, otherwise seem close. Your other information as to preliminary etc. may indeed qualify you for the ale prize, and I will deliver indeed.
The drag/fun part is getting this stuff down. First order is to clear the floor area 30 feet below, and I am definitely wearing the expensive new fall arrestor gear a friend in the chemical industry gave me recently. This stuff was certainly installed with a big lift before the seats and ceiling structure were installed. They are flown in a proper but permanent fashion and do not lend themselves to removal via the catwalk at all. Nonetheless, I am up for the project and they will come down..............
Perhaps for fun I should have some photos to document the endevour.........
Really, most of this cannot be taken down the VERY narrow 4 story spiral stairway that services these catwalks, so other than perhaps drivers, I'll have to lower this stuff down through major obstructions. This one won't be easy at all.

mikebake
02-28-2008, 05:09 PM
three port holes would have made for less head scratching...:) I thought there were just
two? pic looks like a custom plywood job (believe JBL did stuff like this, and still does ?)

-grumpy
It seems to be virtually the same cab, but with two ports. Very very similar, as viewed from 25 feet away from another catwalk in dim light; the only place to view them from as they are suspended in space.......

subwoof
02-28-2008, 05:41 PM
If the cabinet has the mounting hardware installed rather than a cradle, you could use a rope pully system with a brake to lower them. I would remove all the components first - if you have to play spiderman so be it.

I took apart a JBL cluster in 1980 that was hanging above a working ice rink by having 3 guys hold onto a 30ft stepladder that predated the automobile. Talk about trust.

I unbolted 3 of 4 bolts from the drivers, installed an eyebolt and lowered each of the 375's down to the ice with a rope. Did the same for all the other parts until it was done.

Smart me sold the drivers for 300/pr later that summer and I thought I made out big time.

sub

mikebake
02-28-2008, 06:03 PM
The 4560 Has a homemade, but solid looking, fly system bolted through with 5 bolts per side. The sub cab is simply cradled. The whole thing, if removed from catwalk level, is a Chinese puzzle. Also, below all the cabs are acoustic/aesthetic diffuser panels which do not allow dropping things directly to the floor.
Crazy.
It really diminishes what the components are worth. This is not an easy un-installation.

mikebake
02-28-2008, 06:08 PM
See the panels in the ceiling? They block dropping the rig down........

subwoof
02-28-2008, 07:33 PM
What is the weight of a "diffusion" panel compared to the cabs?? nada.

Have someone who can deal with the panels set up a simple scaffolding and remove the one that is under the sub along with the grid parts..

Then lower all the goodies thru the hole and have him re-install. At the least his services are deductible on schedule C... and he HAS to have insurance to work there..:o)

2 birds, one stone.

Or just take the drivers / horns and leave the boxes.

sub

mikebake
02-29-2008, 04:46 AM
Plan B might be it; I'll know more after I get into it. I wouldn't mind having the cabs.

subwoof
02-29-2008, 05:25 AM
Take the drivers out and mention you *thought* you saw asbestos insulation.

Then watch the fireworks getting them out but unless you wear a moon suit, won't be able to claim them...:o(

sub

mikebake
02-29-2008, 06:18 AM
Removing the panels is probably out of the question in this situation, however, I think that if I can get the cabs onto the catwalk, (see photo first post), I can drop them down the other side (behind me) as that should be above the stage and not the seats. I trust lowering the 4560 with the fly rig it has, but the sub cab will have to be analyzed. What do 2445's seem to bring?

subwoof
02-29-2008, 10:47 AM
Unfortunately technology has moved forward and that lovely high power 32lb mofo driver has been replaced by the 3lb 3rd gen Nds that can be had for 475/pr WITH coated diaphrams on the bay.

I couldn't sell the 2445's or 2360's if I wanted to. Even the heavy metal bands have gotten wiser..:)

On the sub, remove both 18's and run 3 loops of 1/2" or larger rope around the wood between the holes and lower away. The baffle strength is the best bet without actually mounting metal ribs inside and this will be at the balance point too..

sub

mikebake
02-29-2008, 11:14 AM
That is how I was going to do it, with the baffle, but I want to make sure it's solid and safe. i've done them that way before.
I kinda figured that was the story on the 2445's. I'd like to have some lighter stuff, but I my applications it won't matter as much. As you might imagine, I'm not offering much for this collection...............
Did you see if you had some of the metal brackets by any chance?

subwoof
02-29-2008, 11:44 AM
I have (4) original wood and (6) adjustable metal 2 piece. The metal ones were part of the theater kit.

sub

mikebake
03-14-2008, 06:34 AM
Well, at least I know the price now for this stuff.........................free.

spkrman57
03-14-2008, 09:49 AM
Well, at least I know the price now for this stuff.........................free.

You must have a entire garage and thensome of gear sitting around!!!

Ron

mikebake
03-14-2008, 10:06 AM
You must have a entire garage and thensome of gear sitting around!!!

Ron
Ha! To be accused of that by you is something!! Actually I store my gear in the winter here at my work in one end of a large bathroom!!! BTW, I have some empty test cabs that Giskard made up for the sub1500;They can be run ported or sealed. Need 'em?

spkrman57
03-14-2008, 10:10 AM
Ha! To be accused of that by you is something!! Actually I store my gear in the winter here at my work in one end of a large bathroom!!! BTW, I have some empty test cabs that Giskard made up for the sub1500;They can be run ported or sealed. Need 'em?


Yeah, I would like the cabs.


I'll try and call you today....

Regards, Ron

mikebake
05-02-2008, 04:15 AM
zMade it back up in the catwalk yesterday to make plans for removal; took a strong flashlight to look at the front of the sub cab from about 25 feet away; the drivers have the foam roll surround and not the pleated, so I guess they are 2245's, not 2241's. Fine with me. One seems to have had the cone scuffed/damaged by some object contacting it and will apparently need a recone.

4313B
05-02-2008, 04:52 AM
One seems to have had the cone scuffed/damaged by some object contacting it and will apparently need a recone.Well, I've got the kits.

mikebake
05-02-2008, 04:59 AM
Cool. Getting them out is gonna be some work. I did find a block/tackle system up there I can lower the cabs with, but removing the flying hardware is gonna be a job; they put them in the right way, for sure.

4313B
05-02-2008, 05:09 AM
Is this something the three of us can do on a weekend day?

mikebake
05-02-2008, 06:33 AM
Well, that is part of the problem; the theatre is busy on weekends this timeof year with dance recitals, graduations, etc.
Plus, this is job requires fall-arrest, IMO.
My son and his buddy rock climb alot so they have the safety gear for themselves, plus the energy and guts.
I have a good industrial fall arrest system a friend gave me last month.
I think it's a 2.5 hour job, probably on short notice on a weeknight.
Who is the third person?

4313B
05-02-2008, 06:56 AM
I was thinking Ron.

spkrman57
05-02-2008, 07:58 AM
I was thinking Ron.

I can help out on the ground level.

I lose my balance and sanity when up over 6 ft.:blink:

But would be willing to travel and help out!

Ron sends!

spkrman57
05-02-2008, 08:02 AM
I could possibly do that also with some advance notice.

If those 18" cabinets are excess to your needs, I have a pair of 2245 reconed to 2240 that would be interesting to try out. ;)

They don't handle much power compared to the 2242s, but I don't need much for home use!:D

Ron

mikebake
05-02-2008, 09:53 AM
I could possibly do that also with some advance notice.

If those 18" cabinets are excess to your needs, I have a pair of 2245 reconed to 2240 that would be interesting to try out. ;)

They don't handle much power compared to the 2242s, but I don't need much for home use!:D

Ron
I don't need another big cab. A true sub, especially of that size, doesn't help me much.

mikebake
05-02-2008, 11:49 AM
I can help out on the ground level.

I lose my balance and sanity when up over 6 ft.:blink:

But would be willing to travel and help out!

Ron sends!
You stand down below, we'll drop the cabs down to you...................

spkrman57
05-02-2008, 11:53 AM
I can be available most anytime with advance notice.

Does the dual 18" cab look like the 4642 shown in page 2 of this thread??

Ron

mikebake
05-02-2008, 02:10 PM
I can be available most anytime with advance notice.

Does the dual 18" cab look like the 4642 shown in page 2 of this thread??

Ron
Pretty much.

mikebake
08-27-2008, 07:08 PM
Update; removed items tonight, 3 man crew, all wore fall arrest when over the rails!
Turns out the sub had two 2245H! Both have rotten foam, one had a cone tear that someone smeared something like silicone to try to repair; almost looks like it was "repaired" during the initial install, honestly. From the backside, they look damn near new. My tent sale pair did not have white aquaplas on the rear, these do.
4560 cab held a single good 2220, nice condition.
2445J's, three of them, look good, but have not tried them out yet. Removed two of three horns (tricky stuff in mid-air) and they are 2360 and 2365. One still remains installed in the theatre, may go back later to get it. Sub cab and 4560 not worth the effort to remove. Man, I love the frames on the big ol' 2245's.

mikebake
09-16-2008, 12:25 PM
spkrman57 or others; anyone want the horns; one each, both are different, one 2360 and on 2365.