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richluvsound
02-11-2008, 05:34 PM
Hi ,

has anyone seen that "HOW TO" wire balanced XLR cables ?

I have been searching for ages. I think it was Bo that posted it .

Thanks,Rich

johnaec
02-11-2008, 05:47 PM
Here's a good guide: http://www.rane.com/note110.html

John

richluvsound
02-11-2008, 05:50 PM
John,




Many thanks ;)


Rich

hjames
02-11-2008, 07:57 PM
Hi ,

has anyone seen that "HOW TO" wire balanced XLR cables ?

I have been searching for ages. I think it was Bo that posted it .

Thanks,Rich

Bo and I and Zilch and a buncha folks ...

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=9773

speakerdave
02-12-2008, 12:18 AM
Here's a link to a guide for wiring xlr to RCA and vice versa.

http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/connection/xlr-rca-1.html

David

richluvsound
02-12-2008, 04:27 AM
Folks,

3 bloody hours to solder a pair of balanced patch cables. I dont know what
I do wrong ? I can tig weld freaken Titanium,but this thing is kicking the crap out my EGO (some think that aint such a bad thing:p) I think my little 25 watt soldering iron is the problem. I think I need to buy a new one. OK , so I dont use it very often ,but I do think its time to practice what I preach and find the correct tool for the job. !

WHAT SHOULD I BUY ?

TIA Rich

rs237
02-12-2008, 05:50 AM
Folks,

3 bloody hours to solder a pair of balanced patch cables. I dont know what
I do wrong ? I can tig weld freaken Titanium,but this thing is kicking the crap out my EGO (some think that aint such a bad thing:p) I think my little 25 watt soldering iron is the problem. I think I need to buy a new one. OK , so I dont use it very often ,but I do think its time to practice what I preach and find the correct tool for the job. !

WHAT SHOULD I BUY ?

TIA Rich

hello Rich
The same quality as your router?
If so then these (or newer)

regards
juergen

Zilch
02-12-2008, 02:11 PM
I'm still using 30 Y/O 50-Watt Wellers with temp control tips.... :thmbsup:

Hoerninger
02-12-2008, 02:28 PM
Temperatur control is advisable.
Using ERSA Analog 60
___________
Peter

Andyoz
02-12-2008, 02:42 PM
3-hours Rich!!!...c'mon man!

SMKSoundPro
02-12-2008, 02:49 PM
how tough can it be?

3 hours? i'd fire you.

ps. My wife ALWAYS carries a small roll of solder in her purse, just in case.

richluvsound
02-12-2008, 02:59 PM
3-hours Rich!!!...c'mon man!
Andy,
It was 3am when I finished. I could'nt get the solder to run. Then when it did,
I melted the insulation and kept getting a short.I thought I'd run out of bloody cable. :o: Anyway, I stuck at it and WOW. I have never heard a dac that sounds like tubes until I got this MSB . The DEQX has been relieved of dac duty for the time being. Analogue Balanced was quite an improvement over coax Dig

Bo, really did the business for me with the room compensation.I'm in heaven:applaud:

Rich

Andyoz
02-12-2008, 04:16 PM
Only kidding, I find soldering the screen a real pain as it burns everything else.

I can solder a pair of XLR's in about 2 hours :p I have a few to do here and have been putting it off for weeks....

Next time I will just buy them already made.

macaroonie
02-12-2008, 05:05 PM
Use cable that is twin conductor plus foil screen with a drain wire commonly known as FST ( foil screen twin ). With this you do not have the nuisance value of the braid.

XLR types --- Cannon Switchcraft Neutric Amphenol and generics on the inside of the conn. at the back of the pins there is always a good 'well' . You want to give all the required pins a good tinning, ie flow solder onto the contact and heat it until the bond is visibly 'WET '

Prepare your cable by stripping back and trimming to the required lengths. Common practice is to keep the screen leg shorter than the two signal carriers ( pins 2 and 3 ) Tin the exposed parts of the wire ONLY until the solder has flowed and is bright then remove the iron.

Mount the pin set into a vice or a mating socket bunged into Play Dough then heat first pin 1 till the solder melts to a bright liquid. Feed the screen wire into said molten solder and the tinning on the wire will melt and become shiny. Your iron is in contact all through this. As soon as the wire tinning becomes bright withdraw the iron, hold steady and in a matter of seconds the joint will cool solid.

Repeat for your signal conductors and watch out for your pin layout because it changes if it is a male or female contact.

RCA / phono These can be quite varied in the contact arrangements inside and it is a good idea to have some small heat shrink sleeve to cover the tip ( + ) connection Other than that use the same method as above for the soldering.
When unbalancing twist the screen and the -ve conductor together and solder to the outer ( shell ) contact

1/4 jacks -- as above

I can do XLR conns easily with a 15w iron.

macaroonie
02-12-2008, 05:27 PM
line female conn. Cable is Foil screened twin 3 mm O/D with a reinforcing sleeve over to beef it up in the clamp. Note the excess length on the red + and black - .

richluvsound
02-12-2008, 05:55 PM
Thanks Mac,

I had them too short. The little bit of shrink-wrap is a nice touch. I got it done in my own awkward way . I not posting pictures , You lot will piss yourselves. Maybe I should , just for a giggle .:D I love taking the piss out myself, I find does'nt hurt so much when someone else does it .;)

Rich

Guido
02-13-2008, 02:25 PM
You'll have an ERSA station when you finally bring your ass here :)
Go and practice, soldering the right way isn't easy but also not an art :p

speakerdave
02-13-2008, 08:31 PM
. . . . Next time I will just buy them already made.

:applaud:

macaroonie
02-14-2008, 05:27 AM
Andy,
It was 3am when I finished. I could'nt get the solder to run. Then when it did,
I melted the insulation and kept getting a short.I thought I'd run out of bloody cable. :o: Anyway, I stuck at it and WOW. I have never heard a dac that sounds like tubes until I got this MSB . The DEQX has been relieved of dac duty for the time being. Analogue Balanced was quite an improvement over coax Dig

Bo, really did the business for me with the room compensation.I'm in heaven:applaud:

Rich

On re reading that post I had a thought that you might be using one of those Audio file tweak cables. Some of them have enameled conductors and those truly are a bitch. If you try to let the solder burn off the enamel then the insulation melts. Solution if that is the case is to fan out the strands on a work surface and use a stanley blade to give them a scrape. The slder will take much faster after that. Guilty party --- Monster.
There was a solvent method also but I cant recallwhat it was.
The foam type insulations do not help either.
Some cable vendors have clearly never tried their hand at soldering.

Try these guys for good quality schmutter http://www.vdctrading.com/default.asp

No affil.

boputnam
02-14-2008, 01:07 PM
Bo, really did the business for me with the room compensation.I'm in heaven:applaud: Good to know! The bulk of it was LF loading - it was surprisingly strong for those concrete floors. Guess nothing should surprise me with the 2245 and those cabinets... ;)


3-hours Rich!!!...c'mon man!Now that's funny...!


ps. My wife ALWAYS carries a small roll of solder in her purse, just in case.Now that's damned weird... :blink:


It was 3am when I finished...Sounds like every gig I do....

Rich - make sure and test each completed cable with a mini-meter. Just make sure you've not crossed any leads. Good discipline, particularly if you finished at 3am...

SMKSoundPro
02-14-2008, 01:40 PM
I have one of these in my gig bag at all times.

http://www.whirlwindusa.com/ftp/Blackbox/tester.jpg

boputnam
02-14-2008, 01:58 PM
I have one of these in my gig bag at all times....As you should. But your wife's purse!!?? :rotfl:

I have so much stuff in my "save the gig bag", it won't fit here. It's insane. But everytime I try to wean, I end up adding more stuff. Two soldering irons, 26-adaptors of all sorts, 16-turnarounds of each gender, etc., balanced, unbalanced adaptors, Pin2-Pin3 converters - it goes on-and-on...

SMKSoundPro
02-14-2008, 02:12 PM
Lisa's grandmother always carried bullets in hers. Here in Alaska, you just don't know what you will faced with! It is a frontier, still!

Sometimes a little solder and a match can get you out of the woods pretty quick!

Scott.

SMKSoundPro
02-14-2008, 02:15 PM
As you should. But your wife's purse!!?? :rotfl:

I have so much stuff in my "save the gig bag", it won't fit here. It's insane. But everytime I try to wean, I end up adding more stuff. Two soldering irons, 26-adaptors of all sorts, 16-turnarounds of each gender, etc., balanced, unbalanced adaptors, Pin2-Pin3 converters - it goes on-and-on...


Dear Bo,

Once again, you are confused.

Thats NOT the gig bag, I have all that stuff in the "punt" box. When it is third and long, go to the punt box! A giblets are found there.

Gig bag = minimag, aspirin, lots of ear plugs...etc.

tongue in cheeked,
scotty.

boputnam
02-14-2008, 02:21 PM
Gig bag = minimag, aspirin, lots of ear plugs...etc...Sheeit, man - I call that a pocket.

SMKSoundPro
02-14-2008, 02:23 PM
touche'

Mike Caldwell
02-14-2008, 03:30 PM
For XLR testing I like the RAT Sniffer. It's a two piece unit so you can test the ends of long cable runs, snake cables ect without needing both ends together to plug into the tester. They'll check for shorts, pin swaps, open pins. You can also use it as a phantom power indicator.

My gig bag has grown into the entire top lift out tray of a work trunk and my tool box will barely close!

My XLR soldering record is about 90 in an 8 hour period!

Mike Caldwell

boputnam
02-14-2008, 03:35 PM
For XLR testing I like the RAT Sniffer. It's a two piece unit so you can test the ends of long cable runs, snake cables ect without needing both ends together to plug into the tester. They'll check for shorts, pin swaps, open pins. You can also use it as a phantom power indicator.Yea, that is a goodie. Rat Sound Pro Audio Sales (http://www.ratsound.com/ratsales/phanphas.htm)


My gig bag has grown into the entire top lift out tray of a work trunk and my tool box will barely close!Dood...


My XLR soldering record is about 90 in an 8 hour period!DOOD! But, like how long were they...? :rotfl:

You can do my next snake-build, dood. I think I love you...

richluvsound
02-14-2008, 04:19 PM
My XLR soldering record is about 90 in an 8 hour period!

Mike Caldwell

So I know where to go for my apprenticeship then. The entire west coast is littered with skills I need to learn. I'll bring my surfboard too !

Bo. still in profile one:applaud:

Rich

Zilch
02-14-2008, 06:33 PM
LOTSA good surfing in Ohio, yup.... :D

subwoof
02-14-2008, 07:12 PM
90 in one 8 hour sitting??

using standard switchcraft XLR's on belden 8451 ( thin install cable that's easy to strip ) I could do 90 in less than 2. And that's with beer ( input and output ) breaks..;o)

If you strip and tin BOTH the connector and the wires it goes a LOT faster and the heat build-up that melts the insulation is a non-issue if you let them cool before final assembly.

sub

richluvsound
02-15-2008, 01:57 AM
Zilch,

I'm allowing for the rise in the water level due to global warming :D
My mistake,for some reason I thought Mike lived somewhere near Portland.

Rich.

boputnam
02-15-2008, 11:23 AM
Bo. still in profile one:applaud:That is a surprise - I guessed you'd ditch that and go back to "LF Loading-a-rama".

Wow. I'm pleased.

That preset, to me, really shows what the 4345's can sound like. Great balance - talking about "balance"! :rotfl:

richluvsound
02-15-2008, 03:39 PM
Hi bo,

everything sounds tons better. I can finally sit and listen to Bach or Hayden and hear it properly. I had'nt been able to sit in the sweet spot in awe
since Ian fiddled . My music thanks you kind Sir;)

Rich

Mike Caldwell
02-15-2008, 03:47 PM
The 90 XLR's were on cables wiring up racks for a large install job, that did include some cable measuring, fitting and cutting!. The connectors were all Neutrik NC3MX and NC3FX. I hate switchcraft XLR connectors and the little set screws! In some strange way I like making up cables. I have built all of my cables from patch cables to snakes, sub snakes my split snake, speaker cables and many various custom jobs for people. Maybe I should have bought stock in Neutrik a few thousand connectors ago!

Tinning the stripped wire and connector terminals is the only way to do it.

I do live next to a river so if "richluvsound" wants to bring the surf board along for a few days of soldering apprenticeship, I'll pull your surfboard behind the canoe!

Mike Caldwell

richluvsound
02-15-2008, 04:04 PM
Mike,
maybe I could get someone to drop a paragon off the bridge so I can get good wave.

boputnam
02-15-2008, 06:50 PM
Hi bo,

everything sounds tons better. I can finally sit and listen to Bach or Hayden and hear it properly. I had'nt been able to sit in the sweet spot in awe since Ian fiddled . My music thanks you kind Sir;)

RichCool! I'm glad. Those 4345's are simply amazing cabinets. I think even the Widget would like it better now, too... :p


...In some strange way I like making up cables. I have built all of my cables from patch cables to snakes, sub snakes my split snake, speaker cables and many various custom jobs for people. Dood - I want you, now. Call me...


Mike,
maybe I could get someone to drop a paragon off the bridge so I can get good wave.And that, coming from someone who months back couldn't even spell JBL - now your entire life seems to revolve around the things! :rotfl:

Glad I took the trip to Peckham - it was great to spend time with you. I'll hope to do it again before the Berlin chapter begins.

boputnam
02-29-2008, 09:09 AM
For XLR testing I like the RAT Sniffer. ... They'll check for ... open pins. Except, for Pin1 open.

Pin1 open gives a full dead report. That is not helpful, as it could confuse with a "device no worky" (dead battery, etc.) report. Pin2 and Pin3 can only show as good if Pin1 intact (it is the return).

This is a pet peave I have with all these testers: If you've dropped Pin1 for GL reasons, the testers don't show anything.

Handy as this is for testing of long runs, never travel without your multi-meter...

Mike Caldwell
02-29-2008, 11:59 AM
True if pin 1 is open there is no ground referance for power to the other LED's. I built a tester based on the Whirlwind models with the selector knob that checks each pin one at a time. That will check for any open pins, miswiring ect. but it is an all in one tester where you need both ends of the cable at the tester or a real long cable to run out to the other end.


Mike Caldwell