Urei 813b project

[Charles0322]

I'm looking for some creative input on options for a pr. of Urei 813b..

I have purchased 2226H for the lower end.. they were fitted with 2235H when bought and the 2425H / 801B combo for the hi/mids.

Should I bi-amp, tri-amp and breakaway from the time align x-over.. or is that what makes them special?

I am being told that to truly get the best out of them they need to be soffit mounted.

Thanks

[pos]

Hello Charles0322, welcome on this forum!

The 2226 will not give you near the same bass response as the 2235.
Even the 801B will likely go lower.
If you still have the 2235s you could try to get them reconed (assuming they need to).

EDIT: I think you're supposed to have 2234s as helper woofers there. That is the same basket as the 2235, even the same recone kit, the only difference being that the mass ring from the 2235 kit is not installed. So maybe you're best bet would be to sell your 2226s and get your 2235s reconed as 2234s ?

[Charles0322]

Hello Charles0322, welcome on this forum!

The 2226 will not give you near the same bass response as the 2235.
Even the 801B will likely go lower.
If you still have the 2235s you could try to get them reconed (assuming they need to).

EDIT: I think you're supposed to have 2234s as helper woofers there. That is the same basket as the 2235, even the same recone kit, the only difference being that the mass ring from the 2235 kit is not installed. So maybe you're best bet would be to sell your 2226s and get your 2235s reconed as 2234s ?

I was told to swap out the 2235 (as they needed reconing) for 2226 and bi-amp them with a bss x-over. I won't be needing the model 840 x-over? Does this make any sense?

Thank you very much for your input. A 2234 is different in which way from the 2235? How much are the 2226H worth second hand in good condition?:banghead::banghead:

[Bob Womack]

I'm typing in front of these 813B/Cs right now:


http://www.in2guitar.com/stereo/813ssi.jpg


They live in the soffit of a Live-End Dead-End control room with a grille over them.

The lovely phase coherence and lack of ear fatigue that are the greatest features of the 813s come from the crossover. These days, some are re-capping the crossovers to restore the specs.

The UREIs are, in fact, designed to be soffit-mounted and suffer from bass rolloff if they aren't. However, acoustic consultant Bob Hodas has written an excellent article about using subwoofers to counteract this very situation and has had good results. You can find the article HERE (http://bobhodas.com/pub3.html) . Notice that he disagrees with the notion that bass is non-directional and suggests using stereo subwoofers.

Before I read his article, I happen to have stumbled upon a pair of the 813s smaller bothers, the 811cs, and set them up with a subwoofer on one side. Lo and behold, I was troubled to discover that I could discern that the low bass was arriving from one side. Right about that time I came across his article and set up my 811cs with dual subwoofers and was much happier.

Bob

[hjames]

I was told to swap out the 2235 (as they needed reconing) for 2226 and bi-amp them with a bss x-over. I won't be needing the model 840 x-over? Does this make any sense?

Thank you very much for your input. A 2234 is different in which way from the 2235? How much are the 2226H worth second hand in good condition?:banghead::banghead:

2234 does not have the "massring" under the dustcap, but is otherwise the same as a 2235.

Read text and see picture -
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=919

[Charles0322]

I'm typing in front of these 813B/Cs right now:


http://www.in2guitar.com/stereo/813ssi.jpg


They live in the soffit of a Live-End Dead-End control room with a grille over them.

The lovely phase coherence and lack of ear fatigue that are the greatest features of the 813s come from the crossover. These days, some are re-capping the crossovers to restore the specs.

Bob

Really nice soffit install. 3/4 ply press fit. What do you use for a base, sand or concrete?

I have lots of questions (sorry)

Do you think I can use the 2226H as subs? And re-cone the 2235 as a 2234?

how much should it cost to recap the the x-overs..

Right now I have two Crown PS-200's I'm using bridged mono.. is it sufficient for these in quality & power.

I respect this forum a great deal.. very nice to see people passionate about sound!

[Skywave-Rider]

I happen to have stumbled upon a pair of the 813s smaller bothers, the 811cs

Hey Bob, let me know if u want to get rid of them, LOL.

I miss using the 813s. They're less and less common. But great, as u know. Charles, best wishes on this project. I don't have much to offer but following with interest.

[Zilch]

Don't know about "B," but 813C would be biampable with crossover mods.

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/UREI%20Time%20Align%20Series/813C-L,R.pdf

I believe you're getting bad advice elsewhere on several scores:

1) You're going to throw out the built-in passive time alignment and HF compensation, the system's major features, in favor of what?

2) 2226 is not a rational substitute for 2234/5; a comprehensive system redesign is implicit in doing that.

3) Does BSS provide the requisite tunings for 813B? In what bi/triamp configuration?

Suggest that your advisor(s) come here and discuss their proposals before you implement any of them.

Yes, you can make subs out of 2226s, but that's not merely a matter of sticking them in a box. They require active EQ in specific alignments to perform as subs....

[rs237]

and the 813C use the 2215H helper Woofer , or is this wrong ??

regards

juergen

[Zilch]

and the 813C use the 2215H helper Woofer , or is this wrong ??3.5 mH/20 uF is not what I'd call a subwoofing lowpass.

The tapped inductor values for the coaxial woofer are not given, though I believe I was able to track those down at one time.

I'm not sure whether 2234H or 2235H would be the more appropriate substitute for 2215H in that system, either.... :dont-know

[Charles0322]

Don't know about "B," but 813C would be biampable with crossover mods.

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/UREI%20Time%20Align%20Series/813C-L,R.pdf

I believe you're getting bad advice elsewhere on several scores:

1) You're going to throw out the built-in passive time alignment and HF compensation, the system's major features, in favor of what?

2) 2226 is not a rational substitute for 2234/5; a comprehensive system redesign is implicit in doing that.

3) Does BSS provide the requisite tunings for 813B? In what bi/triamp configuration?

Suggest that your advisor(s) come here and discuss their proposals before you implement any of them.

Yes, you can make subs out of 2226s, but that's not merely a matter of sticking them in a box. They require active EQ in specific alignments to perform as subs....

Thanks.. I'll make subs out of the 2226's and keep the Urei in stk form. Just recone the 2235s. Now to save up for Brystons!

[doodlebug]

Here's what I did with my 813A's. Just a standard crossover recap in both the front and rear units. Cost was somewhere on the order of $50 or so, IIRC. In my case, I had the Altec 604s reconed by GPA, too. They sing quite nicely now and I've used them for mixdown on a number of local band projects as well as daily listening. They're in storage for now until the new house is finished in March.

Most band members I've worked with these days haven't seen anything like the old-school monitors - until they hear themselves. About all they know are the near-field stuff at Guitar Center.

I appreciate the discussion here on the subwoof options. The 801s in my set are all original except for replaced foam surrounds at one or more points in their past. Mine aren't soffit mounted, either, and will likely never be due to living room limitations. I don't feel any problems with bass, though.

Cheers,

David

[Zilch]

Thanks.. I'll make subs out of the 2226's and keep the Urei in stk form. Just recone the 2235s. Now to save up for Brystons!http://memweb.newsguy.com/~stigerik/almighty/index.html

[Robh3606]

The 813 A,B,C all use different drivers and crossovers. They are not interchangeable. If you have "B" there shouldn't be any JBL helper woofers in them. In the BX they had 2234's. The Le-15 and 2234 are almost equivalents as far as there LF extension.

Take a look here.

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Systems%20Reference%20Charts/UREI%20Series.pdf

You can get the schematics here for the "C"s:

http://www.jblproservice.com/navigation/UREI%20Time%20Align%20Series.html

And the "A+B"s here in the last pages of the manuals:

http://www.jblproservice.com/navigation/Vintage%20JBL-UREI%20Electronics.html

The Tapped Inductors for any of the "C" series all have to be custom wound if you can get the winding information from JBL Pro.

Rob:)

[doodlebug]

http://memweb.newsguy.com/~stigerik/almighty/index.html


Ah, our man of a 1000 links.....Zilch, I always appreciate the quality and relevance of the things shared.

Cheers,

David

[Zilch]

Rob found references I didn't know existed.... :D

Funny thing about the almighty sub is he decries using active assist in subs, then goes ahead and does it. :p

[Bob Womack]

Really nice soffit install. 3/4 ply press fit. What do you use for a base, sand or concrete?Thanks! This room was built according to Live-End Dead-End principles, one of which is to prevent conduction through walls and floor to the mix position. As you may know, conduction through a solid transfers sound faster than through a gas, so when the sound is re-radiated from the floor to the mix position, phase interference results.

To prevent this, we cut through the concrete building foundation and poured new footings into the ground underneath the floor with bolts integrated to secure steel columns. The columns were fabricated with flanges at each end to bolt to the footings and accept the receiving boxes on top. The receiving boxes were fabricated from double layer, glued and screwed, 3/4" plywood. Once they were fabricated, mounted, and aligned, conduit was run to them and wall construction could begin. The triple walls were erected separately with no physical connection between themselves and the boxes and mounts. You can see a bit of the white flexible sealant used to fill the gap between the boxes and the wall at the bottom of the opening.

Once the room was in the final construction stages, the wiring was run and the boxes were lined with dense rubber strips to isolate the speakers. The speakers were then press-fit into the boxes. As an LEDE roon (unlicensed in this case), the control room is largely anechoic on the front and and diffuse on the rear. There are RPG quadratic diffusers across the rear that were designed specifically for our installation by Peter D’Antonio at RPG Systems.

I have lots of questions (sorry)No problem!

Do you think I can use the 2226H as subs? And re-cone the 2235 as a 2234?I really don't know the wiring config for the "B" version of this speaker but the "C" variant has the option to power the LF separately. It should be noted that the manual for the "C" version specifically warns against electronically pushing the response below 80hz more than 6db to extend the frequency response. The stated reason is to prevent distortion and damage. It recommends that no boost at all be applied below 30hz for the same reasons. That's one reason why I've approached the LF situation at home from the angle of using an external subwoofer. I'm not sure that bi-amping the systems and pushing the response in the LF range won't just cause the same effects.

how much should it cost to recap the the x-overs..Addressed by another poster.

Right now I have two Crown PS-200's I'm using bridged mono.. is it sufficient for these in quality & power.For home use, probably. For a control room, the manual suggests a minimum of 300 watts at 4 ohms, to allow more dynamic range without distortion. Remember that if you subwoof your system with separate amplification, you are reducing the wattage requirements for the main system.

By the way, while we were building the room, we operated these 813B/Cs unsoffitted in another room and they worked fine. The soffitting extended the bass response, but I'll be honest that I aesthetically prefer the LF range of my subwoofed 811Cs at home. I've described it this way on the forum before: The soffitted 813s have a smoother bass response than the non-soffitted, subwoofed 811s, but the subwoofed 811s have a more solid, deeper low-end.

It should be noted that the 813s are powered by David Hafler amps and gently smoothed by Clarke-Technik room EQs. Because they are used as primary control monitors, the installation has been TEF'd for frequency response and time spectrum analysis. The mixes I create on these monitors are very predictable and balanced.

The 811s came out of a control room and are now my home system. Though I've done rudimentary frequency sweeps, I can't vouched for their accuracy and no mixing is being done on them. I do audition work at home, but that's about it. They are set to be pleasing, not dead accurate. :D

Bob

[Urei809]

This post will not be helpful at all, I assure you, but I just wanted to say I have ALWAYS wanted a pair of 813's. Currently I have 809's that I have had reconed (10+ years ago) by the only person in Michigan certified to work on Ureis and recently rebuilt the cabinets to make them more appealing in the livingroom.

The cabinets are identical in construction to the original cabinets with the exception that I have created a lip that will hold a speaker grill.


Anyway, I am extremely jealous.

[Charles0322]

This post will not be helpful at all, I assure you, but I just wanted to say I have ALWAYS wanted a pair of 813's. Currently I have 809's that I have had reconed (10+ years ago) by the only person in Michigan certified to work on Ureis and recently rebuilt the cabinets to make them more appealing in the livingroom.

The cabinets are identical in construction to the original cabinets with the exception that I have created a lip that will hold a speaker grill.


Anyway, I am extremely jealous.

I love them Big & Ugly, lol..

I grew up in Quebec, Canada.. Disco was big in Montreal earlier on and they had a lot of disco systems.. I grew up listening to music on JBL & I fell in love!

I have worked at Stereo Montreal since 1999. These Urei 813b were originally the dj booth monitors at Stereo. They were purchased by Angel Moraes from Francois Kevorkian in the 90's. I always really loved these speakers and Angel knew it. Finally they became too cumbersome for Angel to drag around and my best friend and I purchased them to eventually use in a studio.

[Charles0322]

Thanks! This room was built according to Live-End Dead-End principles, one of which is to prevent conduction through walls and floor to the mix position. As you may know, conduction through a solid transfers sound faster than through a gas, so when the sound is re-radiated from the floor to the mix position, phase interference results.
Bob

The level of specifications awes me :applaud: I admire people who take sound to the next level!

I will build these 2226 bass cabs, two of them, use them in stereo as Mr. Hoda suggests. Can I use the 8ohm version to the same effect as the suggested 4 ohm?

Soffits is way to involved for my budget and I just don't have that specifically designed room to suit.

I want to thank everyone contributing to this thread!

[doodlebug]

This post will not be helpful at all, I assure you, but I just wanted to say I have ALWAYS wanted a pair of 813's. Currently I have 809's that I have had reconed (10+ years ago) by the only person in Michigan certified to work on Ureis and recently rebuilt the cabinets to make them more appealing in the livingroom.

The cabinets are identical in construction to the original cabinets with the exception that I have created a lip that will hold a speaker grill.

Anyway, I am extremely jealous.

I've got a set of the 809s, too, UREI809. I can tell you that they are voiced _very_ similar to the 813s. The biggest difference is the soundstage of the 813s is a bit larger and can be pushed harder (read: louder).

If I had a smaller room, I would seriously consider using 809s along with bass augmentation. Rebuild your crossovers, if you haven't yet. Its worth it.

I feel that your jealousness is somewhat misplaced. That is, you are not that far off from the 813s as it is.

Cheers,

David

[Charles0322]

http://widget.slide.com/rdr/1/1/3/W/f00000013f158c6/1/237/sx5s-TF_5D-xI45OwCFAeb-XgHMjqLxP.jpg (http://www.slide.com/s/oNgZQRj9zj_xhtgWheckzWhWo7qsjfSi?referrer=hlnk)

http://widget.slide.com/rdr/1/1/3/W/f00000013f15ef6/1/18/zs1D32f63z-LL2i3Ge9wSDd2yZdDaJew.jpg (http://www.slide.com/s/wm1PF-r27z9MvAaUdqh02o7r9piooO3v?referrer=hlnk)

http://widget.slide.com/rdr/1/1/3/W/f00000013f165ee/1/23/lTZ1EtlC4j9VVQyDbBby-sNcaiMhfRoR.jpg (http://www.slide.com/s/23g-iRC96z_OT1KoA_CLTm2YitO6tvSo?referrer=hlnk)

http://widget.slide.com/rdr/1/1/3/W/f00000013f16d0a/1/202/8mtr2pgI6T-eKUUEQFY105MaM9doU7sr.jpg (http://www.slide.com/s/wEorXJv3vD8H_4Vv4Pojrj94jgVnxkUs?referrer=hlnk)

[Charles0322]

http://widget.slide.com/rdr/1/1/3/W/f00000013f1a199/1/61/LAJUvtxr2D-1logWFSjwxat2zYcNpZdl.jpg (http://www.slide.com/s/RIYf3sAWyz8lL1LW7ah_8HKIQqtZ0JQw?referrer=hlnk)

[Bob Womack]

Soffits is way to involved for my budget and I just don't have that specifically designed room to suit.My 811cs at home are not soffitted, by the way. They sit on top of my little 200 watt, 12" Sony subs. We made up a felt pad between. I plan to build grilles for these monsters. They look a little, mmmm... industrial for the living room.

http://www.in2guitar.com/stereo/stack.jpg

Bob

If you are interested in how my little stereo came about and want to see pix of a REALLY cool home theater system based on UREIs that was built by the forum's own Frederick, look HERE (http://www.in2guitar.com/stereo.html) .

[Urei809]

I've got a set of the 809s, too, UREI809. I can tell you that they are voiced _very_ similar to the 813s. The biggest difference is the soundstage of the 813s is a bit larger and can be pushed harder (read: louder).

If I had a smaller room, I would seriously consider using 809s along with bass augmentation. Rebuild your crossovers, if you haven't yet. Its worth it.

I feel that your jealousness is somewhat misplaced. That is, you are not that far off from the 813s as it is.

Cheers,

David

Thanks for the info. The crossovers are stock originals.

I had originally bought these for recording but now they are in the living room. I absolutely love the sound of them - realistic and with energy is how I describe them acoustically - but my wife was not in love with their appearance (they were pretty beat).

Over the Christmas holiday I build new cabinets for them (structurally identical) but prettier. I honestly think they sound better now too, these cabinets have a ton less vibration than the originals.

So, where can I get the crossovers rebuilt and how much should that cost me?

Here is a before and after picks.

http://dale-murray.com/web/urei809-original.jpg

http://dale-murray.com/web/Urei809.jpg

[doodlebug]

Seems to me I spent around $50 in parts for the caps on my 809s. I just pulled the woofers out and put them aside, then just pulled the crossover boards out without fully disconnecting them. I then just desoldered each of the caps and replaced them, one for one. I believe I had to use some paralleled caps to get the right values.

The schematic is downloadable from JBL, I believe, but I _always_ check the boards to confirm values before ordering parts. I used Solen caps but they are a bit larger than the originals due to higher voltage ratings. This required a bit more work to get them installed in order to slide the boards back into the original cabinet's mounting holes.

Oh, and Charles0322, apologies for highjacking your thread. Love the pics of the speakers in the studios. I wish I had a pic of the set I have when they were at Fantasy Studios in Oakland.

Cheers,

David

[Charles0322]

Oh, and Charles0322, apologies for highjacking your thread. Love the pics of the speakers in the studios. I wish I had a pic of the set I have when they were at Fantasy Studios in Oakland.

Cheers,

David

No problem, I love reading about Urei speakers.. I like listening to them a whole lot more :applaud:

I can't believe what I'm hearing out of these. Right now I have them hooked up to a BGW Performance series 3, 375 W @ 8 ohm. I used a couple of well produced tracks, a 12" Tom Moulton re-edit and a Daniel Lanois album on CD (I couldn't stop listening so let it play)

I will re-cap the x-overs professionally eventually. If this is the benchmark and everything sounds better after some subs and mods!!! I am dumb founded.

I have been in touch with Stig for the almighty sub woof. I will try to start building it but may need someone more accomplished in wood working..

How do I crossover the 2226 subs to work with the 813b s? Do I send the signal from the Urei 1620 mixer to the crossover for the subs and the output from that x-over going to the Urei 813? Or do I use another output from the Urei mixer going into the crossover for the subs, and allow the 813's time align model 840 it's own input from the mixer.. I am thinking of crossing over the 2226 subs @ 150hz. I am a little puzzled how to incorporate the subs while utilizing the 813's in stk form.

a couple more pics of my setup..
http://widget.slide.com/rdr/1/1/4/S/f000000141be481/1/129/M2UJXkOw4j9ifFuL2B8UqR04DlZUlVez.jpg (http://www.slide.com/s/QmkUQlap7j93zyFArDpFIE8Qz4Ut94aR?referrer=hlnk)

http://widget.slide.com/rdr/1/1/3/W/f000000141bf480/1/34/UlqhcIcF5z-f80jzAXSrGSaYDW0uINZK.jpg (http://www.slide.com/s/C3hJ9pWz6T9ZroKXp_rprRceJP5C90Ok?referrer=hlnk)

http://widget.slide.com/rdr/1/1/3/W/f000000141bee65/1/200/qErXVD022D-56h2Mlu9x60yP_6yXqB6s.jpg (http://www.slide.com/s/QIMGzofTnz9cEi_lskh5bdxOlqRtAd2A?referrer=hlnk)

[Bob Womack]

Your best bet may be either an active crossover or a "bass management system" such as Bag End uses.

Bob

[louped garouv]

charles0322,

are you planning on a RLA styled crossover in your system?
maybe some old crown crossovers...
old pioneer ones can be really nice as well...


seems to fit with the 'era' as they say....



on a related note...

I am picking up the Urei 809As i had gotten refoamed this afternoon

:)

plan on using either a Crown DC150 or Phase Linear 200 Series II to power them

single EAW SB48e for subwoofer while i try to find/clone another three....

:D

[stephane RAME]

http://cgi.ebay.com/UREI-838-TIME-ALIGNED-CROSSOVER-ALTEC-604-6048G-604-8G_W0QQitemZ130197678847QQihZ003QQcategoryZ14977QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Charles0322]

http://cgi.ebay.com/UREI-838-TIME-ALIGNED-CROSSOVER-ALTEC-604-6048G-604-8G_W0QQitemZ130197678847QQihZ003QQcategoryZ14977QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Those are out of the 813A...

[Charles0322]

charles0322,

are you planning on a RLA styled crossover in your system?
maybe some old crown crossovers...
old pioneer ones can be really nice as well...


seems to fit with the 'era' as they say....



on a related note...

I am picking up the Urei 809As i had gotten refoamed this afternoon

:)

plan on using either a Crown DC150 or Phase Linear 200 Series II to power them

single EAW SB48e for subwoofer while i try to find/clone another three....

:D

Nice! I just picked up three Crown PS-200's from a cinema install. I'm testing them all right now.

My D-150A series II is my baby, bought new in a local shop as old stk. I just love it. I'm actually getting better sound with the PS-200's..

I'm configuring the Crowns for a HT set up. B&W DM 602 S2 for the front, B&W DM 601 S1 for the rear, B&W CC6 S2 for centre & a quest subwoofer.

Looking for options for a 5.1 decoder from my PS3

Next is the Panasonic PT-AX200U projector..:bouncy:

As for the RLA.. I wish I had one.. There is a great tube version out called the Thrive ISO designed by Shorty. I'm a saving but this hobby is the mother of all hobbies, hobbling my bank account!

[eso]

The 813 A,B,C all use different drivers and crossovers. They are not interchangeable. If you have "B" there shouldn't be any JBL helper woofers in them. In the BX they had 2234's. The Le-15 and 2234 are almost equivalents as far as there LF extension.

Take a look here.

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Systems%20Reference%20Charts/UREI%20Series.pdf

You can get the schematics here for the "C"s:

http://www.jblproservice.com/navigation/UREI%20Time%20Align%20Series.html

And the "A+B"s here in the last pages of the manuals:

http://www.jblproservice.com/navigation/Vintage%20JBL-UREI%20Electronics.html

The Tapped Inductors for any of the "C" series all have to be custom wound if you can get the winding information from JBL Pro.

Rob:)

This is some information I've been looking for. What I'm still lacking is the Urei part numbers for the PAS low frequency drivers that were used, I believe, in the "b" series monitors.

I just purchased these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250468831288&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT



The schematics at the 2nd link are general and not sufficient to actually build a C-series crossover as the tapping points of the inductors are not given.

Now, does anyone know where to purchase the Urei horn with the foam surround NOS? I believe that horn for the b or c series will require the JBL 2425 driver with the threaded attachment.

I would like some Urei horns, as their dispersion is undoubtedly factored into the crossover filtering. Barring finding a pair of those I will likely make a pair out of fine hardwood similar to some made for some Altec 604 by Japanese horn aficionado Yuichi Arai that I'm currently trying to track down some pictures of.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

eso

[Robh3606]

Hello Eso


The schematics at the 2nd link are general and not sufficient to actually build a C-series crossover as the tapping points of the inductors are not given.

Yes they are of limited value. I have the tap information on the 811C coil and wound one to make an 811C clone. I use it as my center chanel. I can post the information if you want it. That said I wouldn't use that crossover with the PAS woofer. The 811C used and E-145 as the 15" and I doubt the spacing is the same between the voice coils in both woofers. From the pictures it looks like your compresssion drivers bolts on to the back using the JBL 3 bolt pattern. If that is so you would use a standard 2425/2426 as a compression driver.

On the "C"s they used a 2425S which looks like a 2426 without the 3 hole adapter plate. It's a standard 2425 with a threaded throat. So if you look at the off sets the 2425S threads into the E145 pole piece. That's going to give you a shorter VC offset than bolting on a standard 2425 assuming that the magnet and backplates have the same spacing as an E-145.


Now, does anyone know where to purchase the Urei horn with the foam surround NOS? I believe that horn for the b or c series will require the JBL 2425 driver with the threaded attachment.

You see them on E-Bay from time to time. Not sure which version you should get. There were at least 3 versions I can think of and have pictures of.

Could you please post some pictures of your drivers and the mounting plate??

Good luck making up your system and please post pictures of your progress as you go.

I think this is your woofer it was an 801B

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Systems%20Reference%20Charts/UREI%20Series.pdf

Close-up of the "C" version horn. You can use that to compare what you have. It's a conical section that smoothly morphs into what look like an Exponential

Rob:)

[eso]

Thanks for the input Rob. I know the crossover was tweaked for each configuration, so after some thought I think it best to get the 2425 drivers and stick with the 840 crossover as it should be the correct match and also have the proper correction for the High frequency contours.

To get it right I do need to find out what the 800W woofer is for the extra 15", as the crossover is probably adjusted for that too, and Urei didn't use the JBL woofers until the 813bx and 813c series. That is unless I could find a schematic for the 841 crossover that matches that combination.

If you look at the ebay link you can see the horns that come with these drivers are very different from the Urei units: shorter overall with a wider dispertion pattern. The Urei horn appears to be more of a constant directivity device than one seeking greatest output.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250468831288&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

Thanks for the photos. Those are indeed the drivers. I'm going to try to make it out one day this week to pick up a pair of 2425s. The heatsink/magnet cover has a throat hole and mounting holes for standard 2 and 3 bolt patterns set up for counter sunk screws, the heatsink then screws to the woofer magnet with 2 1/4-20 countersunk screws. There are also bolts that mount the horn through the woofer magnet.

I'll try to remember to get some pictures this week.

Any idea on the 800W woofers?

Eric

[doodlebug]

If you are looking, I have a set of 800W woofers that are not being used. PM's are appropriate.

Cheers,

David

[eso]

Could you please post some pictures of your drivers and the mounting plate??

Here we go:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o157/esodesign/PASCXL1580.jpg
PAS CXL1580 without the heatsink
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o157/esodesign/Mounting2425H.jpg
Mounting the 2425 to the heatsink
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o157/esodesign/Coaxassembly.jpg
Mounting the heatsink on the woofer
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o157/esodesign/Urei813Bdrivers.jpg
Full set of 813B drivers

Sorry about the image quality from my cell phone with the broken lens, but you probably get the idea.

So, that's a full set of drivers for a pair of 813B. I need to locate either the Urei horns and install them or make a nicer pair than the stock PAS ones. And I'll start rounding up the crossover parts.

I did learn something today while picking up the woofers and compression drivers: A JBL 2425H IS a 2425HS with and additional mounting ring that actually threads over the 2425HS threaded snoot. This would explain why the "C" series is probably the best sounding series. With the driver threading directly onto the woofer that JBL coax assembly in the "C" series would have the least built-in time delay of any of the Urei monitors making the time alignment filter more simple and probably imparting fewer artifacts of it's own.

I may have to do some experimenting in that region at some point.

eso

[eso]

Rather than start a new thread I'll see if I can get any answers here.

After trying to buy a pair of the new GPA 604 HIII horn flares and being denied, and speaking with a tech at Harman Int'l about any NOS parts I'm going to have to make some new horns for the CXL 1580 drivers.

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=41137&stc=1&d=1249836210

Can any of you provide a few measurements of your horns for me? Height and width of the mouth, the height of the arc at the mouth (Widest point when a straightedge is placed across the corner to corner of mouth), depth, dimensions of the slots, depth where the sides increase the flare.

Cross-section dimensions at a couple of points would be great.

I really want some blue urei horns, but the last order JBL placed for the b series was in 1984 and they purchased 1000 parts from a company that is no longer in business.

Anyone able to help with this?

Thanks,
eso

[Robh3606]

I will try to get you some dimensions. It's not easy with the foam in place as there is a lip that covers the actual end of the horn. As far as the angles I will post a couple of photographs you can then print and use the vanishing points to get the angles with a protractor. No way I can actually measure them with the horn mounted.

You can also use a Paint Shop like program to scale things using the pixels per inch once you have a know dimension.

The inside has a different contour than the flat outer wall on the sides. There are gentle curves you can see in the sidewall foam that are either in the foam or molded in.

The throat is going to be a real PITA as I don't think I can get a accurate measurement on the diameter or length. Same with the angle in the throat. If we can get a reasonably close length and the 2 diameters, figure one is 1" you can calculate the angle of the pole piece section leading up to the blue plastic horn.

Rob:)

[eso]

Rob, thank you. Even some measurements that are close can help me to reverse engineer the flare. I know just enough of the math for calculating horns to be dangerous.

So, is there a lip, or step near the mouth that the foam wraps around? I always thought it was basically a small square/rectangular strip that was to the outside at the mouth. Looking closely at your pictures I am now seeing otherwise.

Also, the two sides have some high density foam too? I think I am seeing that as well in your pictures.

This may be a good candidate for making a mould and using Urethane or epoxy.

While I was speaking to JBL tech yesterday I found that when the "B" version was last purchased in 1984 they paid $11.95 ea. for the parts from a producer in Sun Valley. The last of the "C" series parts were listed in their Pro support pricing as $98.95 in 2004.

I'm going to begin sketching something up in Autocad for this. I'll have to bring my work computer home...

eso

[Robh3606]

I'm going to begin sketching something up in Autocad for this

Can you wireframe from a photo/image file??

Rob:)

[eso]

Can you wireframe from a photo/image file??

Rob:)

I'm not that knowledgeable or skilled with CAD for that. But I know enough to draw a little bit.

Eric

[eso]

Well, I found these locally and I can study the horn design for fabricating new horns for my 813 clones:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320411721362&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123

Any of you own both the 12" and 15" Coax horns? If so can you verify the horns are similar if no identical?

Thanks,
eso

[Robh3606]

Hello Iso

I waited till I got back to work to get a vernier to try some measurements.
The 809 horns are smaller without the slots, however the 1" transition should be the same. They use a 2416 which has the exact same throat dimensions as a 2425HS.

These dimensions are inside the horn. The widths are 6.100 at the termination of the inside blue foam pads at the end of the horn. At the other end of the pads the dimension is 2.250 inside. So it goes from 2.250 to 6.100 along the length of those blue pads. The length of the blue pads are 3.250. From the back of the pad to the metal throat transition is 2.375. The length of the transition is about 1 7/8 to the compression driver screen.

The height is 2.850 at the outside edge, I can't get any kind of decent measurement further down the horn. It's just too tight in there. You should be able to scale it with the known dimension in a graphics program.

The slots are 1.500 x .375 wide.

Hope this helps

Rob:)

[eso]

Rob,
Thanks. Between those measurements and being able to compare the geometry to the 809 horns I should be able to get really close.

One of the last challenges will be sourcing the blue foam for the mouth. I already have a pretty good idea for the inside foam panels. I'm picking up the 809s tomorrow afternoon. The seller within 10 miles.

eso

[Robh3606]

One of the last challenges will be sourcing the blue foam for the mouth.

It reminds me of the foam they use too make the pool noodles.

Rob:)

[Mr. Widget]

One of the last challenges will be sourcing the blue foam for the mouth.The folks at Foam Trends might be able to help... they seem pretty resourceful and are excellent at attention to detail.

They may be able to fabricate something out of a white foam and tint it... just a thought.


Widget

[speakerdave]

Foundation sill form, maybe? It's nominally 1/4 inch, and folded over it might make about the right outside bend, or you could bend it around a former. Some of it's blue.

[Oldmics]

N.O.S.

Which ones do you need??? :p

Oldmics

[Robh3606]

Hello Oldmics

Can you post a picture of the flip side to see how they attach to the coax driver.

Thanks

Rob:)

[eso]

N.O.S.

Which ones do you need??? :p

Oldmics

The two on the left. P.M. me please.

eso

[Oldmics]

Ther Ya Go .


Also have these 800 W woofers currently on eBay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150367145042&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

[Robh3606]

Thanks!

Ok so the metal transition through the pole piece is completely within the pole piece on those horns. You bolt up through the top plate.

Rob:)

[doodlebug]

Be aware, though, that the cone's spider must be removed in order to mount the horn. The inner circumference of the spider is attached to that large circle where the screws go through the base of the horn.

I'm looking at my 809s right now as I write this. IIRC, the Altec 604 version does the same thing but the spider also has felt on it. Seems to me from the pics of the JBL-based versions I've seen didn't use felt but the more standard spider system.

BTW, on the ALtec 604 versions, the blue horn - sans the foam lips - was glued to the standard mounting base and could be removed without dinking (a technical term that!) with the spider. This is how I ship or move my UREI/Altecs in their box.

Cheers,

David

[speakerdave]

Be aware, though, that the cone's spider must be removed in order to mount the horn. The inner circumference of the spider is attached to that large circle where the screws go through the base of the horn.

I'm looking at my 809s right now as I write this. IIRC, the Altec 604 version does the same thing but the spider also has felt on it. Seems to me from the pics of the JBL-based versions I've seen didn't use felt but the more standard spider system.

BTW, on the ALtec 604 versions, the blue horn - sans the foam lips - was glued to the standard mounting base and could be removed without dinking (a technical term that!) with the spider. This is how I ship or move my UREI/Altecs in their box.

Cheers,

David

The horn in the original UREI version incorporates what looks like the base for the stock 604-8G horn. That is screwed to the pole piece with a spacer and the felt bridges from the cone to the mounting flange of the horn base. The woofer spider is not in any way involved with the mounting of the horn. Are you really referring to the felt?

[doodlebug]

Yes, I was referring to the felt. Frankly, I've never peeked around back of it so made an assumption. Thanks for keeping it straight.

Cheers,

David

[eso]

Have any of you ever built/rebuilt one of the Urei crossovers? I'm having a hard time finding the l-pads as called out in the 840 schematic: 30-25ohm/25watt for the H.F. Trim and Drive and 50ohm/25watt for the Mid trim. Any Ideas?

I was searching around in the archive and most here seem to favor Solen caps. The Urei schematic calls for mostly 100V caps and the Solens are 400V. Is this going to affect any of the desired values?

Also, any input on Resistor types? I'm currently leaning towards Mills 1% from Parts Express.

Have any of you thought about or tried to implement Charge Coupling these networks? Does it sound like a good idea here?

Any input on these items would be greatly appreciated.

******

Playing with these is a big stretch from my years as a low-power-SET-amp-BIG-horn-system guy. Following some guidelines in the Urei manuals I've located a decent sized amp (McIntosh MC2200) and just hooked up the 809s I got for the first time. They're fun. The entire presentation is different from what I've lived with for years now. Even with the little 12" monitors I'm pleasantly surprised by the transient response.

The NOS horns for the 15"s should be here any day, and then I need to get the 800Ws down to Orange County Speaker for re-foaming. It's all about getting the Crossovers built now. The cabinetry for these is a no-brainer.

http://s119.photobucket.com/albums/o157/esodesign/?action=view&current=sub.jpg
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/%3Ca%20href=%22http://s119.photobucket.com/albums/o157/esodesign/?action=view&current=sub.jpg%22%20target=%22_blank%22%3E%3Cimg% 20src=%22http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o157/esodesign/sub.jpg%22%20border=%220%22%20alt=%22Sub%20in%20pr ogress%22%3E%3C/a%3E

[Robh3606]

Hello Eso

I have a picture of my 811C crossover. I used Mils ressistors, Solens and Elctrolytics for the large values. I did that network a year or more before we were talking CC networks. I don't see why you couldn't especially on the compression driver. For the pots I used 2 legs of the standard 8 ohm 25 watt pots.

Rob:)

[eso]

Rob,
That's the crossover with the tapped inductors, isn't it?

[Robh3606]

Yes it is.

Rob:)

[grumpy]

... a little late in the conversation, but

re DIY 604-8G horns, Yuichi has his A-800AL documented here:

http://www.geocities.jp/arai401204/Download_Page/Download.html

[eso]

... a little late in the conversation, but

re DIY 604-8G horns, Yuichi has his A-800AL documented here:

http://www.geocities.jp/arai401204/Download_Page/Download.html

Cool, he just put that up within the last 2 weeks. I had looked at his site for it and Emailed him and asked for the plans for it.

I may still build some of those. They are really pretty and based on my experience with building his 290Hz radial horns I'd be willing to bet he's done the math and designed a good sounding horn.

***edit***

So here's the page with the assembly and some graphs:

http://www.geocities.jp/arai401204/Horn/A800/A800.html

So, while he doesn't have 604 stock and modified measurements for comparison the Gauss rework looks like a substantial improvement.

And they're really pretty too...

Thanks for posting the link,
eso

[eso]

So here's the PAS CXS 1580 drivers fitted with the NOS Urei horns. Thanks to oldmics for the horns...

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o157/esodesign/801Bpair.jpg

Now I just have to order the crossover parts. I think I'm going to build completely stock for starters, and then try to upgrade by charge coupling the the portions that affect the coax. The parts count gets crazy when I quadruple the caps for the CC circuit, and I've already spent a little bit on the effort...

AS a side note, I was doing some patterns today for the Yuichi 800Hz horn for the 604 8G...
http://www.geocities.jp/arai401204/Horn/A800/A-800Gauss04.JPG

The geometry of this horn nearly Identical to the horn for the Urei 809 12" coax. The Yuichi horn is a more refined radial design. I'm going to throw a pair together as I think his designs are well executed and worthy of exploration.

Still, I'm moving ahead with the basic 813B set-up with 840 crossover first: start with a known quantity before moving the goal posts.

eso

[eso]

Does anyone have a drawing of the 813B cabinet Baffle layout? Or can someone measure theirs and post that information?

It should be 36" X 31", but I need to location of the driver cutouts and the size and location of the vent/crossover openings.

Any help would be appreciated.

eso

[Bob Womack]

Hi, ESO!

I pulled out a ruler and went to work on our UREI 813B/Cs. Because of our particular setup, the speakers are oriented with the bass driver on the top and main driver below, near ear level. The port is next to the bass driver and the control panel is next to the main driver. These monitors were furnished with left and right mirror image cabinets. Basically that means that the port and panel are set together on opposite sides for the left and right speakers.

http://www.in2guitar.com/stereo/813ssi.jpg
This is the right-hand speaker in the soffit.

Here are the dimensions I got:

Port - 2" down, 1" from edge, 7.5" tall x 4.75" wide

Edge of bass driver basket flange is 2/75" from top edge and centered left/right

Edge of main driver basket flange is 2.25" from bottom edge and centered left/right

Crossover control panel is 1.5" up from bottom, .75" from edge, on same side as the port.

We power ours with a Hafler TransNova P7000 amplifier and use Klark-Teknik DN360 graphic EQs to smooth them out. All that is mounted in the machine room. We've tuned them with white and pink noise and we've shot Fast Fourier Transforms of the room. The speakers are inserted into boxes built with two layers of 3/4" plywood that are mounted to steel posts. We cut through the foundation of the building and poured separate footings with bolts to secure the posts. After that, floating floors were installed and the room's shell built around, but not in contact with, the existing speaker mount assemblies. As a result, the speakers are totally isolated from the structure of the room.

The control room is an unlicensed Live-End dead-End room, designed by an engineer who studied at Syn-Aud-Con. The front end is as anechoic as possible and shaped to pass all residual reflections to the back wall.

http://www.in2guitar.com/images/ppssm.jpg

The acoustically-significant portions of the rear walls have been treated with RPG diffusers. We sent the blueprints for the facility to Dr. Peter D'Antonio at RPG and he designed diffusers to the space. Here is a shot of the rear:

http://www.in2guitar.com/images/pps1rear.jpg

I'm reproducing this info on the forum so others can benefit. I hope that helps a bit in your quest!

Bob

[mikeharris]

i have a set of new old stock 813 crossovers we discover while cleaning up

[UreiCollector]

Have you made any progress with the 813's?

[eso]

Have you made any progress with the 813's?

I have to get the parts and build the crossovers. I've got all of the drivers for the 813b, and the cabinet layout, but beyond collecting the various parts and info I have been too busy finishing up a project for my work to take the time in my shop to complete them.

Oh, and I've got a local foundry casting some of the PAS heatsink/compression driver mounts for some other 15" drivers I came up with too.

Soon I'll have a completed pair.

eso

[eso]

It's been a while since I've posted here. The end of last year nearly worked me to death and I've been getting another project underway for this year.

So, I am only now getting back to my Urei project. Here is a prototype for a wooden horn that I reverse engineered from one of the originals I got from Oldmics. These are made from a plywood I laminated using 7 layers of Wenge veneer. The idea is to use an industrial wool felt for the mouth instead of the foam:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o157/esodesign/audio/Ureiredux.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o157/esodesign/audio/UreireduxII.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o157/esodesign/audio/UreiReduxIII.jpg

These are coming out nice enough that I think I'll use some of the really nice veneers I have for a deluxe pair after I sort out the the throat construction.

I still haven't got the heatsinks back from the foundry and I have yet to get the crossovers under way.

So, I'm still plugging away with them, just much more slowly than I'd like!

Eric

[rgwalker]

It's been a while since I've posted here. The end of last year nearly worked me to death and I've been getting another project underway for this year.

I still haven't got the heatsinks back from the foundry and I have yet to get the crossovers under way.

So, I'm still plugging away with them, just much more slowly than I'd like!

Eric

I have a pair of crossovers from Urei 813s that I should sell. I never got around to building the project they were for and likely never will. If you're interested I'll send you photos. If you're planning to duplicate the system with the light boxes it's something to consider.

Bob Walker
[email protected]

[eso]

Well, I've gone from just trying to recreate a pair of Urei 813Bs to trying to recreate the drivers with some improvements.

Since PAS has long since stopped making the cast aluminum heat sink/compression driver mount of the original B series drivers I decided to talk to an old friend that runs a foundry....

Here's the first test castings. These are sand castings as opposed to the originals which were die cast. These will have the mating surfaces and screw and mounting holes milled and then be painted. Not as clean as the originals, but the whole thing is just lipstick anyway...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4500648/Heat%20sinks%20I.jpg

I have parts for 3 pairs of these, and once I complete the throats for the little wooden horns I should be able to put together a really nice set for a domestic setting.


eso

[Mr. Widget]

Not as clean as the originals, but the whole thing is just lipstick anyway...Glad you said it first. ;)

Looks good though. I like to see a pretty girl wearing the right shade of lipstick.:D


Widget

[eso]

Well, here's an 813B...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4500648/Audio/1st%20813.jpg

I just roughed everything together to get a look at it before paint. These have to be one of the ugliest boxes ever conceived.

Once completed I'll probably fly these somewhere in the shop. The crossovers are the wrong model, but I got them to use as an example for circuit/wiring layout and panel sizes.

Have any of you ever run Urei monitors with the Urei 6500 amp using their "Conductor Compensation™" circuit? I'm very curious about what it is and what it does.

eso

[mikeharris]

the 6500 was a great match for the 813

[UreiCollector]

Well, here's an 813B...

eso


These look great! Can't wait to see them with paint! I have used Duratex on some recent projects, and it would look great on these!

[eso]

These look great! Can't wait to see them with paint! I have used Duratex on some recent projects, and it would look great on these!

Thanks Fredrick. I've got some tinted primer on them now. I'm probable going to go with a simple satin Black with a bit of texture like the stock cabinets.

On a different note, Your home cinema is impressive and inspiring to me. I'm collecting parts that may be used for a smaller version using 803 (12") drivers if I am able to proceed with my Home addition later this year.


eso

[gestures]

Long time lurker here... I recently acquired a pair of near-pristine 813C's based on the strongly positive opinions here. After living with them for the past 6 months, I can't imagine owning anything else, ever. Unexpected vocals will make me jump involuntarily (on a regular basis)... such is their accuracy/realism/presence.

I plan on refreshing the crossovers based on what I've seen in this thread. Will certainly document my experience for everyone here.

Hope I'm not threadjacking here, ultimately I just wanted express my gratitude toward those that have paved the way thus far. Keep on keepin' on. ; )

[eso]

Long time lurker here... I recently acquired a pair of near-pristine 813C's based on the strongly positive opinions here. After living with them for the past 6 months, I can't imagine owning anything else, ever. Unexpected vocals will make me jump involuntarily (on a regular basis)... such is their accuracy/realism/presence.

I plan on refreshing the crossovers based on what I've seen in this thread. Will certainly document my experience for everyone here.

Hope I'm not threadjacking here, ultimately I just wanted express my gratitude toward those that have paved the way thus far. Keep on keepin' on. ; )

No threadjacking I can see. Heck, I may have jacked this thread last year when I found it and began gathering information for my reproduction project.

Congratulations on your acquisition. They are not pretty but they do make music.

Here's the initial assembly of the pair of 813B:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o157/esodesign/audio/813BRepro.jpg?t=1273200395

I've still got the wrong crossovers in them, but I wanted to give them a listen even if they're not 100% correct yet. I've got parts on order and will get the new ones made soon.

Compared to the crazy efficient horns I've been playing with for years, these things can drink up the output of a healthy amp easily. I'm using a Mcintosh 2200 currently. What gets me is how punchy they are. I was listening to a bit of Physical Graffiti at stupid levels for a few this afternoon and was really surprised at how well these do drums for mostly direct radiators.

Now I've got to get a genie lift and fly these up next to my A5s to reclaim some realestate in the studio...

eso

[eso]

Well, I've gone from just trying to recreate a pair of Urei 813Bs to trying to recreate the drivers with some improvements.

Since PAS has long since stopped making the cast aluminum heat sink/compression driver mount of the original B series drivers I decided to talk to an old friend that runs a foundry....

Here's the first test castings. These are sand castings as opposed to the originals which were die cast. These will have the mating surfaces and screw and mounting holes milled and then be painted. Not as clean as the originals, but the whole thing is just lipstick anyway...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4500648/Heat%20sinks%20I.jpg

I have parts for 3 pairs of these, and once I complete the throats for the little wooden horns I should be able to put together a really nice set for a domestic setting.


eso

It looks like the picture got lost with the server transfer that happened recently. Here's the heat sink test castings:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4500648/Audio/Heat%20sinks%20I.jpg

And here's a pair of the horns in Maple:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4500648/Audio/Maple%20Pair.JPG

eso

[gearfreak]

...probable going to go with a simple satin Black with a bit of texture like the stock cabinets.eso

I'll be very interested to see the result/know a bit more about how you apply the texture.

Mine have the satin base + (gloss?) texturing, but could stand to have some freshening-up done. Scratches from transporting/mounting are probably a little too deep to just color-fill, but probably not deep enough to warrant taking the whole thing down to bare structure.

I've anyone's ever done so, I'd be interested to know how they went about it / what the results were.

e.g. Did you strip them down completely to structure, then respray completely, or is there some trick to get the satin base / gloss texture effect, while maintaining the majority of the original coating?

I've looked up duratex - and note that they have a special roller of some sort to use.
In their case, does it just magically come out as satin+gloss texture? (maybe the globs are glossy, simply because they dry more slowly?), or is the result all one way or the other ?

[BlueC5]

I had long considered my 813B's, the "Holy Grail" of speakers and when i got them they needed very little work. I swept the crossovers replaced some resistors and caps swept em again,had some scratchy spots in the pots,,,, refoamed the emminences twice in 20yrs that i have owned them,,,, listened to them for years ... i moved them to three locations and its not the room........


I have 4333s in my bedroom and always seemed to like them better,,,, i have a pair of 4345s at my other location and they are now my favorite, i will be replacing the 813Bs with 4345s soon and i bet they will stay ,,,, so what are 813Bs worth in great shape?

RN
Miami
(http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=288778)


I'll be very interested to see the result/know a bit more about how you apply the texture.

Mine have the satin base + (gloss?) texturing, but could stand to have some freshening-up done. Scratches from transporting/mounting are probably a little too deep to just color-fill, but probably not deep enough to warrant taking the whole thing down to bare structure.

I've anyone's ever done so, I'd be interested to know how they went about it / what the results were.

e.g. Did you strip them down completely to structure, then respray completely, or is there some trick to get the satin base / gloss texture effect, while maintaining the majority of the original coating?

I've looked up duratex - and note that they have a special roller of some sort to use.
In their case, does it just magically come out as satin+gloss texture? (maybe the globs are glossy, simply because they dry more slowly?), or is the result all one way or the other ?

[JES]

A little off topic but has anyone had the need to recone one of these "b" version coax units? The OE re-cone kit is no longer available.
I'm looking at either the PAS CXL-1580C recone kit of the after market kit offered by Speaker Exchange. Looking forward to all the experienced replies.