Router bit question for the woodworkers

[scorpio]

Hi there woodworkers!
I have a problem trying to use router bits with shank-mounted ball bearing, to shape wood pieces in order to build a radial horns. The wood is 1 1/2" thick ash, and the router bit is 1". I'm using this with a template to make the pieces, but somehow, I'm destroying the ball bearing, which ends up seized and not functioning, burning the wood because ofthe friction, anybody knows what I'm doing wrong? I only managed to shape two pieces before the bearing seizing, and I still have six more to do...

I rough shaped the pieces with a jig saw, leaving about 1/8" extra wood that I have to remove with the shaper. This ash is quite a tough wood to cut/shape, I wonder if I'm trying to cut too much in one pass, but this should only affect the cutting bit, not the bearing??????????

thanks for any advice,

PS - gone now for one week, so if any question, I'll get to them next week - thanks all for suggestions and for your patience if any Q's,

Cheers,

[speakerdave]

The bit, and shank, may be getting hot and cooking the bearing from the inside out. Try varying the feed rate or working it for short periods.

David

[Mr. Widget]

I agree with Dave... also there are bearing sprays that they sell at better saw shops that help keep the dust out and the bearings working.

BTW: If the bearings go they can be replaced... and should be. Are you using industrial bits or "weekend warrior" bits?


Widget

[Gary L]

"Take Human Bites"! You may be attempting to do it all in one pass and over heating both the bit and bearing. Applying too much force against the bearing may also be the culprit.

Most of these bearings are sealed so the sprays do little to help.

Good quality bits and bearings are essential but very hard to find or distinguish these days.

Dull cutting bits get very hot very fast!

There should be no reason to hold the router and bit tight against the work piece and the rule is to allow the bit to do the cutting and to apply only the force necessary to keep the bearing on it's guide. You can make a few additional passes to do some cleanup.

If your router has adjustable speeds you might be running faster then necessary.

Lastly, if you have a 1/2" router collet then always use the largest bit for the job as less vibration will result.

Hope that helps.

Gary

[richluvsound]

Hi there woodworkers!
I have a problem trying to use router bits with shank-mounted ball bearing, to shape wood pieces in order to build a radial horns. The wood is 1 1/2" thick ash, and the router bit is 1". I'm using this with a template to make the pieces, but somehow, I'm destroying the ball bearing, which ends up seized and not functioning, burning the wood because ofthe friction, anybody knows what I'm doing wrong? I only managed to shape two pieces before the bearing seizing, and I still have six more to do...

I rough shaped the pieces with a jig saw, leaving about 1/8" extra wood that I have to remove with the shaper. This ash is quite a tough wood to cut/shape, I wonder if I'm trying to cut too much in one pass, but this should only affect the cutting bit, not the bearing??????????

thanks for any advice,

PS - gone now for one week, so if any question, I'll get to them next week - thanks all for suggestions and for your patience if any Q's,

Cheers,


Scorpio,

could you post pics of the set up and router your using.

Rich

[Mr. Widget]

Good quality bits and bearings are essential but very hard to find or distinguish these days.Quality bits do make a world of difference. I usually buy Amana router bits... they are expensive but last longer than most others that I have tried.

http://www.amanatool.com/


Widget

[richluvsound]

http://www.wealdentool.com/acatalog/Versofix_72.
htmlhttp://www.titman.co.uk/premier_router_cutters.php

2 of my suppliers . I'm sure Germans must have a favorite too.

I'm starting to collect the cutter with the replaceable blades. They are expensive initially ,but the work out cheaper and more convenient. My 45 degree bearing cutter was about $100 ,but it has 2 square blades that can be rotated. That works out $ 25 per cutter - a packet of 10 new blades , $20.

You wont find good cutters at Home Base. Carbide only

Hope this helps someone

Rich

[R Beardsley]

I work with bits that are 2" in length, but never cut much more than 1/4" in one pass. This is also true with the CNC router. Also, many times, I "rough cut" with a saber saw, leaving some material for the router to make a cleanup pass or two. Never force a bit too hard into the work, always letting the tool do the work. I find that, even with large bits, my large 3 1/2 horse router is no faster than using the 1 3/4 horse, simply because I let the tool determine the feed rate.

[rs237]

Mr.Widget and Rich are right, we should wait until scorpio told us what he uses bits. I also use bits from titman. I use the already 2 years and so have built my A300 horns, and also for my Hartfields. He's still working without any problems. There are also cheap scrap from China, 20 cutters in a box for $ 30, that's not work.


regards
juergen

[scorpio]

OK, I'm back!
Thanks for your information all, I believe that the answer is in those. To be honest and to use Widget's terms, I'm more of a sunday warrior than a seasoned woodworker, and my tools do show that.

I'm not using the B&Q / Brico / Home depot type cheap bits, I get mine at a local hardware shops that deals with professionals mostly, but did not buy very expensive bits, they are I believe made in Europe, but it's not clear from the markings. However, they are rated at a max 30k rpm and my router is rated at 31k rpm max, and I've been using it at maximum speed, taking too much wood at a time. So this strongly suggest that I burned the bearing by overheating. I'm going to try again reducing the speed and paying more attention at letting the tool do the work.

This happened when I used my router upside down bolted to a thin MDF plate, to make it more like a shaper, in this way it's easy to push the workpiece too hard on the bit. I'll revert to using it in the standard manner, where I can more easily feel the work piece and hopefully limit overheating (ash is a pretty hard wood to shape, I'm not surprised it overheated).

For info; and for what it's worth, follow a pic of the bit I'm using and the router bolted to the MDF support plate, I then clamp the router upside down in a workmate.

If I still have too much problem when going to lower speed, less pressure, more patience, I'll try sourcing heavier duty cutting bits.

Cheers,

[richluvsound]

Scorpio,


is that a 12mm or 6mm router. If its the bit has a 6mm shank its too small.

That is also the wrong template bit , you need bottom mounted bearing . The larger the dia the bit is, the less fiction on the work piece. You should not be cutting with anything less than 12mm dia shank and 18mm cutter in that set up on that kind of material. Go and hire a Makita for a few days.

This is just my experience and opinion

Rich

[scorpio]

It's a 6mm one, as I said, 'weekend warrior' stuff. I'm using shank mounted bearing to give the shape using a template that I screw on the wood piece, then I use another bit with the bearing at the top to finish the work since the wood I'm shaping is 4 cm thick and the bits are only 25mm.

The 6mm router has been a good help until now for what I've done with it, I agree that it is a little 'light' for this type of work.

[rs237]

Scorpio,


is that a 12mm or 6mm router. If its the bit has a 6mm shank its too small.

That is also the wrong template bit , you need bottom mounted bearing . The larger the dia the bit is, the less fiction on the work piece. You should not be cutting with anything less than 12mm dia shank and 18mm cutter in that set up on that kind of material. Go and hire a Makita for a few days.

This is just my experience and opinion

Rich

So rich is right, that's toys.
"Go and hire a Makita" or a Festoo l:D


regards
juergen

[richluvsound]

Scorpio,

if that that 6mm shank snaps while in use !!!!!!
I have seen it happen . We had to pull the broken end out of the wall with a pair off pliers. Jeez, imagine that it had hit flesh :(

I dont want to be a nagging wife, but it will only cost you 20 or 30 euro to hire one for a weekend . The bonus being , your work will look more professional.

Rich,

[Gary L]

Here is what I use to do these projects and the router is a 1/2" variable speed 3.5HP. I always use the largest bit I can find.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/Gamalot/Personal%20Pics/DSCN1614.jpg

This is not by any means a commercial work station but it does fine with building speakers and useing MDF and 3/4" plywood for a home work shop.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/Gamalot/Personal%20Pics/DSCN1618.jpg

That is a high tech dust collection system I mounted in the window! LOL

Gary

[richluvsound]

Hi gary,

I like that quick - fit. Mine is made out 10 mm ply and could get retired for one of those. How much $$$$$ and would you be willing to ship one to me ?

Is that a PortaCable I spy ?

Rich

[scorpio]

Scorpio,

if that that 6mm shank snaps while in use !!!!!!
I have seen it happen . We had to pull the broken end out of the wall with a pair off pliers. Jeez, imagine that it had hit flesh :(

I dont want to be a nagging wife, but it will only cost you 20 or 30 euro to hire one for a weekend . The bonus being , your work will look more professional.

Rich,
Yes, that's been worrying me a lot, I use a face shield when I work with this, but no clue if it would stand a broken shaft.
You guys get me worried, maybe I should get the ol' file and elbow grease out of the closet....

Time to look for a grown up tool it seems,

[Gary L]

Yea Rich, PC router and quick lift went for right around $400 off EPAY.

The Ryobi BT 3000 saw was around another $400 and is a surprisingly accurate light duty work station.

I can move it around the shop by myself for just about any speaker project I want to build and never have to worry about horse power until I get into solid oaks and ash over 1.5" thick which is pretty rare.

I also have a Bosch 3.5 Plunge router with a Circle jig I got from Parts Express that is the cats MEOW for building speakers.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/Gamalot/Personal%20Pics/DSCN1627.jpg

Gary

[richluvsound]

Hi Scorpio,

this is the type of cutter I would use for your task.

[scorpio]

How do you make the cut then, do youplace the template on the bottom, the piece to be cut on top of it and then cut from above? I'm doing it in two passes as the cutter bits I have are not long enough, considering they are only 6mm shafts. That's the reason for me doing the first cut with the other type of cutter, with the bearing on the shaft, not on the top.

I'm looking around for a 1/2" router right now before trying further, if only for added safety.

Thanks,

[macaroonie]

Either way it does not matter the bearing follows the template. I reckon you are just going too hard at it. I would not expect to take more than 2mm / 1/16" at a pass in seasoned ash. I think you are toasting stuff, resins in the wood, the lube in the bearing etc. when the tool gets good and hot the lube will dry out hence the stick and then it spins on the template toasting it too.
Take a little at a time. Please post pics of your workpiece and template.:(

[richluvsound]

http://www.axminster.co.uk/src/froogle/page_method/email/product-CMT-2E-1-2-Router-554582.htm

This is the best router for the money. CMT used to build the ELU I have and then Dewalt bought ELU the get rid of their cordless drill and turned around
and put that chunk off disposable crap they call a cordless.

You mount the template on top.
I have seen the curved boxes you made. Your skills deserve the correct tools.

I would suggest a book on Jigs for routers. I have one ;)

Rich