Back in the 50s, a new Hartsfield is built

[rs237]

Hartsfield 1957

[rs237]

Hartsfield 2008

[rs237]

Many thanks to the information in this great forum I had a few Hartields build. Therefore, once again many thanks to all who made this forum possible.
More images.

Regards
Juergen

Ps Please do not look at the lens, I work because they have to gold anodize.

[macaroonie]

Nicework there Juergen. That is an ambitious design to build. :applaud:

[rs237]

thanks macaroonie, it has made a lot of fun.
Pictures from Build.
The part numbers correspond to the numbers from the original plan they find here :
http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/plans/harts.htm

From left to right

37,43,W413,45,42,50,42,45,W413,43,37
51

[richluvsound]

Hey Juergen,

that smile on your face is worth a thousand words. You should be very proud

of yourself . They are beautiful . :applaud:

Rich,

[Hoerninger]

Juergen,

congratulations! It is a very fine work. :applaud:
You have let us share your progress within your avatar already, now it has come to a "golden" end.

Your pose scares me. ;) The lady must be very old, so it is a no-no choice. :shock:

Please let us know not only your listening impressions but some measurements too - as far as I know you have the original speaker package.
___________
Peter

[rs237]

Rich, Peter,

Thank you for your comments.
I have not quite the original speaker. The 150-4C, I have only to the 32 ohm version, 150-4. Therefore, I can not use the orginal crossover. I will, therefore, only an active crossover and use triamping. According to the findings, I will then build a passive crossover.

regards
juergen

[richluvsound]

Jurgen,

it would'nt cost much to have the lens powder coated .

And, I think you are much prettier than the original;)

Rich X

[rs237]

second step.

Parts
44,52,47,53,44
35

parts 52,53 and particularly 35 were very very difficult.

[rs237]

more

[matsj]

Sehr schön, juergen.

mats

[rs237]

Danke sehr :D

[Rolf]

Beautiful! A piece of history made new. I envier you these beautiful speakers.

Question: How do they sound? Please try to give me (us) a listening test.

[rs237]

Jurgen,

it would'nt cost much to have the lens powder coated .

And, I think you are much prettier than the original;)

Rich X


Rich,
I will also make DIY anodising, it is cheaper than powder-coated. But it is very difficult to remove original color:(.

regards
juergen

[rs237]

thanks Rolf,

If the crossover voting is finished, I will report on the sound and measurements. But I can now say, "It is very promising." Explosive Dynamic:D

regards
juergen

[Bruno GINARD]

Congratulations Juergen...

I am very impatient to read your listening impressions.

After 4 Years with this speaker i've tried a lot of combination with amplifiers, and filter slope...Differences goes from wonderful to odious !

Warmest regards

Bruno

[rs237]

hello Bruno,

Thanks for your reply and your website. My first suggestions on the construction of Hartsfield I have from there.

regards

juergen

[JBLOG]

Juergen,

You've created a beautiful piece! Spectacular!:applaud:

Those compound miter cuts look scary....

Enjoy!

[RKLee]

rs237/juergen: beautiful piece of work. BUT I was expecting a beautiful young woman like in your first picture, but what do I get!? YOU.

Any pictures of the components speakers that you plan to put in your new cabinet?

[richluvsound]

Rich,
I will also make DIY anodising, it is cheaper than powder-coated. But it is very difficult to remove original color:(.

regards
juergen



Juergen,
Have you tried acetone. Or have them glass beaded

I dont wish to sound a now-all or too critical.

congrats again , Rich

[rs237]

Juergen,

You've created a beautiful piece! Spectacular!:applaud:

Those compound miter cuts look scary....

Enjoy!


thanks JBLOG

"Those compound miter cuts look scary...."

What do you think how many have not passed , and in the oven arrived. It was a hot time.

regards
juergen

[rs237]

rs237/juergen: beautiful piece of work. BUT I was expecting a beautiful young woman like in your first picture, but what do I get!? YOU.

Any pictures of the components speakers that you plan to put in your new cabinet?

hello RKlee ,

What am I not beautifull?:D.
Yes more pictures, including the drivers will follow.

regards

juergen

[rs237]

Juergen,
Have you tried acetone. Or have them glass beaded

I dont wish to sound a now-all or too critical.

congrats again , Rich


Rich ,

Yes acetone and other chemicals (I know their names are not in English).Glass beaded, will probably be the only way.

regards
juergen

[rs237]

the next step

Parts No :

49,46,49
55

[scorpio]

Gee Juergen, now I definitely want to come over and have a listen! Be-you-tiful!

[rs237]

Hello scorpio,

Gladly, I would be glad.

regards
juergen

[4343]

Juergen,
Have you tried acetone. Or have them glass beaded

I dont wish to sound a now-all or too critical.

congrats again , Rich

If anodized, the accepted method is to use Easy-Off oven cleaner. I've used it with great results on anodized alloy wheels. :applaud:

[rs237]

Hello 4343,

the orginal black its Varnish ( powder coated ? ), not anodized.

regards

juergen

[rs237]

next Step

Part No 48

[rs237]

Parts No:

41,36,41
27,26,25
a lot U1000

[rs237]

The "coffin lid"

Parts No
3,4,3
2,2

[rs237]

Veneering,
I used the by Rick Riessen very well described ironing method.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=18218

Titebond 3 in Germany is very expensive. I use has been Ponal Express with very good (long-term) experience.

[rs237]

built the Front Box Assy,

Parts No

33L,34,33R, (32)

[rs237]

very simple with good results

[Guido]

Unglaublich!! Das die so gut werden hätte ich nicht gedacht ! :applaud:

Unbelievable!! I haven't thought they will come out THAT good!

If you need crossover help.....

Next LH Meeting is at you place. Warm up your tube amp :)

[rs237]

Unglaublich!! Das die so gut werden hätte ich nicht gedacht ! :applaud:

Unbelievable!! I haven't thought they will come out THAT good!

If you need crossover help.....

Next LH Meeting is at you place. Warm up your tube amp :)


Hello Guido,

1.) Danke:)
2.) wenn ich Probleme mit den Weichen haben komme ich auf dich zurück
3.) Gerne, warum nicht

translatet

1.) Thanks:)
2.) If I have problems with the crossover, I have come back on you.
3.) Like, why not.

regards
juergen

[rs237]

Parts No,

31,30,30,31

[rs237]

Parts No

20,29

[Woody Banks]

Nice work Juergen. I can appreciate all the effort that it takes. Great job!

Regards
Woody

[rs237]

Hello Woody,

thanks. Your Hartfields are more beautiful. I see you again your old avatar, which I like better.

regards

juergen

[Hofmannhp]

Ps Please do not look at the lens, I work because they have to gold anodize.

Hi Juergen,

They look absolute fantastic.......

as far as I can see on my 2310 Lens they are black anodized. It is no color paint what makes them black.
So it may be a problem to anodize them again in another color then black.
The aluminium surface is ready when anodized, like "frozen" color......maybe I am wrong but it is worth a try.

HP

deine Hartsfields sehen super aus......:applaud:

So weit ich weiß, kann man schwarze 2310 Linsen nicht mehr neu eloxieren, wenn sie schon einmal eloxiert sind. Meine 2310 sind schwarz eloxiert.
Aber wer weiß.....vieleicht gibt es ja Mittel und Wege......einen Versuch ist es wert.

[Jan Daugaard]

Glückwünsche zum erfolgreichen Nachbau!

Ich mag Deine Pose -- unvergesslich ...

--------

Congratulations on the successful cloning!

I like your pose -- unforgettable ...

[rs237]

Hi Juergen,

They look absolute fantastic.......

as far as I can see on my 2310 Lens they are black anodized. It is no color paint what makes them black.
So it may be a problem to anodize them again in another color then black.
The aluminium surface is ready when anodized, like "frozen" color......maybe I am wrong but it is worth a try.

HP

deine Hartsfields sehen super aus......:applaud:

So weit ich weiß, kann man schwarze 2310 Linsen nicht mehr neu eloxieren, wenn sie schon einmal eloxiert sind. Meine 2310 sind schwarz eloxiert.
Aber wer weiß.....vieleicht gibt es ja Mittel und Wege......einen Versuch ist es wert.



Hallo HP,

thank you.
My 2910 is definitely not anodized. The paint is very durable. I now have a chemical from Belgium found. The seems to be working.

Hallo HP,
danke dir.
Meine 2310 sind definitiv lackiert nicht eloxiert. Der Lack ist allerdings sehr widerstandsfähig. Ich habe jetzt einen Abbeitzer aus Belgien gefunden . Der scheint zu funktionieren.


regards
juergen

[rs237]

Glückwünsche zum erfolgreichen Nachbau!

Ich mag Deine Pose -- unvergesslich ...

--------

Congratulations on the successful cloning!

I like your pose -- unforgettable ...

Hallo Jan,

danke, aber sag schon , ich bin genau so schön wie die Dame im ersten Bild , oder ?:D

Hi Jan,

Thank you, but tell already, I am just as beautiful as the lady in the first picture, right?:D

regards
juergen

[ratitifb]

amazing work !

[rs237]

beautifull :D

regards
juergen

[rs237]

Parts No

11,12,13,
14,15,16,15,14
17

[rs237]

Parts No
19,20

an Front Box Assy, veneered and oiled

[rs237]

Top Assy complete
(Parts No 5,6,7,8)

[rs237]

left and right grille assy.

parts no
66,67,66,65
68

[timc]

amazing work !



Thats some nice legs...

[rs237]

Thats some nice legs...


Yes, yes, makes you calm funny about me:D:D:D

regards

juergen

[ChopsMX5]

Absolutely beautiful work! I wish I had half of your woodworking skills! :applaud:

My open baffle loudspeakers sound great, but boy do they look nasty. :(

[rs237]

Hello ChopsMX5,

thanks.
An "open baffle" nice to make is not so easy. You have done good work. Might help a little veneer, it is very simple.

regards

juergen

[Skywave-Rider]

I'd love to hear that.
Looks perfect.
Congratulations!

[RKLee]

Nice pictures. HOw long did it take to assemble one Hartsfield. From your pictures, it looks like it is fairly involved. Personally, if I were going to build a speaker, I would go the butt joints and rectangular box style.

[rs237]

Hello Skywave-Rider,

thanks .

Hello RKLee,

I voted in Mai 2006 with the construction started. How much time have I actually used, I can not say. Sometimes, I have 14 days doing nothing. Sometimes, I have 14 hours in a day built.

regards

juergen

[AJSons]

juergen,

you're the man!!!
or ...referring to the second picture of this thread..the woman. LOL!!!!

congratulations, you did a fine job:applaud:.
those drawings are hard to read and follow, but you did it.

aj

[rs237]

juergen,

you're the man!!!
or ...referring to the second picture of this thread..the woman. LOL!!!!

congratulations, you did a fine job:applaud:.
those drawings are hard to read and follow, but you did it.

aj


Hello aj,

thanks for the compliments.

regards
juergen
Quiet, my name is Marlene but not tell :nanana:

[rs237]

a little helper

[rs237]

Mounting the rear enclosure Assy (Coffin lids)

[rs237]

the Woofer , 150-4 (unfortunately, not 150-4C).

[rs237]

Mid's 2441 and High 2402 or 2405 . Optically no longer quite so nice, but all with new Dia's.

[rs237]

Later, I would alternate driver test

TAD 4001, 2440
2452H-SL

[Rolf]

Later, I would alternate driver test

TAD 4001, 2440
2452H-SL

Why are you doing this to me? (Showing all that good stuff)

I just get envies! Stop! :D:D:D

[rs237]

Why are you doing this to me? (Showing all that good stuff)

I just get envies! Stop! :D:D:D

Rolf,

Ok then I show the Woofer which I all in the Hartsfield test does not:D:D:D

regards

juergen

[rs237]

The first listening test setup

aktive crossover modified JBL M553
two Thoshiba Aurex SCM-15 for mid and high
Yamahe PC2602M for the woofer.

regards
juergen

[Rolf]

The first listening test setup

aktive crossover modified JBL M553
two Thoshiba Aurex SCM-15 for mid and high
Yamahe PC2602M for the woofer.

regards
juergen

I will suggest some better amps. Not that your amps are bad, but there is better, and you can probably borrow some. ?? The xover I do not know, but JBL sounds good. What are the xover frq's?

[rs237]

I will suggest some better amps. Not that your amps are bad, but there is better, and you can probably borrow some. ?? The xover I do not know, but JBL sounds good. What are the xover frq's?

Hello Rolf

Yes you did right. I have only used this amp because I just did. It is only for the first tests. I would like the Speakers with a 25W SE triode amp and passive crossover.Through the long bass horn, however strong run-time differences between woofer and midhorn (about 1m or 3 feet). This, I will probably only through a digital delay can be compensated. Or someone has experience with the calculation of passive Time Alignment Crossovers aka Urei Monitors. Passive when it fails, I will 3 Pass Lab amp's build.

regards

juergen

[rs237]

Crossover Points
450Hz and 8kHz .

regards
juergen

[A9X]

Incredible work. I'm very impressed and a little jealous of your skill.
The pic in post 2 cracked me up.

Reminds me to get to work on my current project.....

[rs237]

Hello A9X,

Thank you for your comment.

The first measurement, not so bad.

regards
juergen

[rs237]

I like that less:(
The woofer has a delay to the Mid-Horn of 3,56 mSec .

[rs237]

Mid> High delay 0.9 mSec = 31cm (1 feet). That I could control, it is true. (Sorry the photo is bad).Also, the measure to vote.

[rs237]

Ohh, whats that? An absolute rare 2310S (S = Silver) Lens? No, i am kidding. But I am glad that the color down. Now I can anodise gold.:D

regards
juergen

[Jan Daugaard]

Could we have a picture of the lens after gold anodization?

Könnten wir ein Bild der Linse nach Anodisierung mit Gold haben?

[Krunchy]

Hello Juergen! & congratulations on your beautiful project, I have to agree with JBLOG, those are some scary mitre-cuts, but you handled them wonderfully. How are they sounding to you so far.
Enjoy! :)

[rs237]

Could we have a picture of the lens after gold anodization?

Könnten wir ein Bild der Linse nach Anodisierung mit Gold haben?

Hello Jan,

Yes I will pictureses of the golden lens. I must first of the anodizingmachine ready to build.

regards
juergen

[rs237]

Hello Juergen! & congratulations on your beautiful project, I have to agree with JBLOG, those are some scary mitre-cuts, but you handled them wonderfully. How are they sounding to you so far.
Enjoy! :)

Hello Krunchy,

thanks for the compliments. Sorry my English is very bad and I am not a man of large words. I have from day to day more fun with the Hartfields.The frequency response is still not so perfect, I still work on it. The dynamics and the musically resolution is overwhelming. There is still room resonances at about 180Hz. Since they are not at the listening position, it is not so disturbing. In addition its the room still empty.

regards
juergen

[Krunchy]

Juergen, your english is fine, and I am glad to hear that you having a good time with your Hartsfields. Once you get them fine tuned I am sure you will be having even more fun :D :applaud:

[rs237]

I have Peter in German my first impressions are described. He was so kind and gave me the text translated.

The Hartsfields are sounding better from day to day. They are sounding the way only a horn can do - in its positiv meaning. I do not hear horn colourations! The sound is unbelievably dynamic. From gentlest tones to brutal sound intensities they are extremly dissolving.

I listened to a big orchestra coming from a faint level growing louder and louder. And when you think it can not be louder you hear a small triangle from the left which you can hear very clear. For my taste and normal music (without electronic "schicki-micki") the Hartsfield has enough bass. There is nothing missing. I do not know whether I will experiment with a different back chamber or a different woofer. This will probably lessen clarity.

Two problems are left. There is a room resonance at about 180 Hz. Using one horn this is worse. When running both horns the room resonances are only left at the opposite room corners. At the listening position they are attenuated.
The second problem is a lack of depth in sound stage. I think it is due to different runtimes from the bass and midrange horn. Presumably I will have to go aktiv with a digital delay, meaning my special soundcard. Bummer, I had intended to go passiv with a 25 W SE triode amp.
Now it's enough drooling.

regards
juergen

ps @ Krunchy
I also hope you enjoy your new "babys":D

[Krunchy]

Hello Juergen, glad to hear you are having a good time with them, thats great. The sound you are describing seems very pleasing to the ear, its unfortunate that you are experiencing resonance problems, how big is the room & is it square? (sorry if you already listed this info) I was told that I may experience this problem as well within the room I have my speakers in as the room is almost square. So far they sound good but someone else may think otherwise. That shouldnt be too difficult to get under control.
Your second problem seems a bit more complicated but thankfully there are many knowledable people here who will have good suggestions for you to get them to sound to your liking. Sorry I cant offer any advice as I am just learning about a lot of this stuff myself. Once you get those pups fine tuned I am sure you will quite happy/er whith them.

My new babies are doing quite nicely thank you, having lot of fun with them :)

[rs237]

Hello Krunchy,

my room is 4m X 4m (13ft X 13ft). All the rooms in my house, these dimensions:(. Ian has a good Tread written about room problems :

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=16794

regards
juergen

[Krunchy]

Thank you Juergen, good thread. I am sure all rooms could probably benefit from some sort of treatment.
Every little bit helps :)

[Ian Mackenzie]

juergen,,

I think this is one of the best diy threads we have seen for some time.

About what you are hearing I would expect having the enclosues in the corner may account for this. My solution build a third centre channel!

Cheers

iMac

[rs237]

Hello Ian,

thank you, your kompliment pleased me very much.
A third centre channel is an interesting idea. I will try it when I make a center speaker built.

regards
juergen

[rs237]

The anodizingmaschine is still not finished. But I have a few interesting manuals found. Unfortunately by the 1954er Hartsfield.

regards

juergen

Part I

[rs237]

Part II

[rs237]

I have these manuals is not in the library. If this already exists there, the admins delete these posts.

regards
juergen

[Hoerninger]

I do not want to hijack this thread, perhaps it is interesting: http://web.telia.com/~u16130035/ampzilla/jbl_pl100_4min.jpg The PL-100 was made and constructed for the Hartsfield speaker in1960. It fits in the spaces to the right and left of the tweeter in the rear compartment at the top of the Hartsfield speaker cabinet. Only 5 stereo systems were made in this series and one is in Sweden as the author amd owner claims. (I have a HTML page from 2003 here.) Fortunately some informations are republished by the owner in vintage audioasylum in 2008. http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/vintage/messages/15/156749.html
Made in only 10 system (5 Stereo system).Today there is only one working stereo system I know about (it's my system). (uses 6pcs 6973 in each ch.) (20+40watt/ch)2*60W total 1st stage 1 12ax7 from "Telefunken"; It was the best tube 2nd stage 12BH7 3rd stage Ecc83/12AT7 4th stage Ecc81/12AT7 (phasesplit) 5ft 6973 Peter

[rs237]

Peter

wonderful :applaud: , great found. Thank you for the pictures and the link. In the plans of Hartsfields there is a cutout for a Amp. This is, however "This cutout requiered only when JBL solid state energizer is installed" labeled. It is also a tube amp for the Hartsfield gave me was unknown. Die Frequenzweiche wurde deutlich, built-in-Verstärker.
The Hartsfied the first active speaker? I always say there's nothing really new in the Lautsprechertechnk for more than 50 years:D.

regards

juergen