Record Cleaning

[SEAWOLF97]

am getting back into vinyl ...really enjoying the warm dynamic sound.

Question ????

What is your personal method for cleaning records ??

I have a discwasher brush and fluid and use a dustbug, ...but still there is room for improvement. My Dad put them under the kitchen faucet and used dish soap...it kinda worked, but I think maybe left a residue.

Do you have a way that works well for you ??

[nrwjbl]

Question ????
What is your personal method for cleaning records ??
IDo you have a way that works well for you ??

Have a look here (modern turntables)

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=197150#post197150

[remusr]

A $600 VPI 16.5 record cleaning machine made my well-kept LP's sound like new...or better than new. It also cleaned up previously unlistenable records amazingly - many were just dirty and not damaged - that vinyl is unbelievably tough. Also new turntables & cartridges have advanced compared to those of the 70's.
Playing a record is also more interesting & gives me something pretty to watch vs slipping a CD into a player.
Soundwise, I understand that a RedBook CD has some advantages and disadvantages compared to LP's. CD's can sound better on the low end due to no groove-width or acceleration restrictions but drop off fairly rapidly after 14kHz. A 96kHz sampled CD (2.2x Redbook) may be another story. Either beats mp3 except for portability.

[SEAWOLF97]

I've been "re-discovering" vinyl for the last 2 months. Am experiencing a warm , fuller sound than I get with my decent quality CD players and much more range than XM.

Was at the "as-is" thrift last week and 8 boxes of records came out. They were obviously from the same person and all were in great condition. I picked up 8 pop albums ( 1st Elton Jihn , 2 Mamas & Papas , Blood , Sweat & Tears , Rhapsody in Blue , a test record , marty Robbins sings Hawaiian, Simon & Garfunkle) and it set me back $4.

In the regular thrift, they are 99 cents each, with better selecton.

wow,,I got back out the dustbug and diskwasher and its like the old days all over again...all the prep work and care seems to provide a closer link to the sounds. The covers and booklets are fun.

I found my double disk JBL demo record set from 1972 with Hoyt Axton and it blew me away. Have very few CD's that sound so good. Even learning to tune out the clicks and pops.

Oh yeah...I picked up a 3 record box set of Jonny Cash's greatest...looks like they had never been played...50 cents !!!

Starting to get excited about audio again :applaud:



whoops...OT ? anyone else have good record cleaning tips ????? (w/o buying an expensive machine ???)

[remusr]

Don't know about expensive but I went to an audio shop that allowed customers to use their VPI record-cleaner and tried it. Then bought it. No comparison to what I did with Discwashers, bugs or whatever. The records cleaned up like new. Definitely worth it.

[jblnut]

I've always used 100% Isopropanol instead of the Discwasher fluid. It dissolves fingerprints instantly and does a good job of removing most things that end up on records. It evaporates quckly too so it won't cause any incidental damage to your stylus (some say alcohol can loosen up the glue that bonds the stylus to the cantilever but I've never had that happen).

For the really dirty ones you need a real record cleaning machine. My vinyl junkie friend has a Nitty Gritty machine and it really does an amazing job. Almost makes a record sound noiseless like a CD. They aren't cheap which is why I don't have one yet, but someday I will probably bite the bullet and buy one.

jblnut



I've been "re-discovering" vinyl for the last 2 months. Am experiencing a warm , fuller sound than I get with my decent quality CD players and much more range than XM.

Was at the "as-is" thrift last week and 8 boxes of records came out. They were obviously from the same person and all were in great condition. I picked up 8 pop albums ( 1st Elton Jihn , 2 Mamas & Papas , Blood , Sweat & Tears , Rhapsody in Blue , a test record , marty Robbins sings Hawaiian, Simon & Garfunkle) and it set me back $4.

In the regular thrift, they are 99 cents each, with better selecton.

wow,,I got back out the dustbug and diskwasher and its like the old days all over again...all the prep work and care seems to provide a closer link to the sounds. The covers and booklets are fun.

I found my double disk JBL demo record set from 1972 with Hoyt Axton and it blew me away. Have very few CD's that sound so good. Even learning to tune out the clicks and pops.

Oh yeah...I picked up a 3 record box set of Jonny Cash's greatest...looks like they had never been played...50 cents !!!

Starting to get excited about audio again :applaud:



whoops...OT ? anyone else have good record cleaning tips ????? (w/o buying an expensive machine ???)

[SEAWOLF97]

Don't know about expensive but I went to an audio shop that allowed customers to use their VPI record-cleaner and tried it. Then bought it. No comparison to what I did with Discwashers, bugs or whatever. The records cleaned up like new. Definitely worth it.

I found one on eBay...

http://cgi.ebay.com/V-P-I-Record-vacuum-Cleaner-VPI-HW16-HW-16_W0QQitemZ280191255225QQihZ018QQcategoryZ48648QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

looks like a vacuum box. so what about taking the home vacuum with a soft but porous cloth around the wand brush and cleaning it ? (after using alcohol on it)

[remusr]

Looks quite similar to my 16.5 except the vacuum arm seems attached to the cover rather than removable and the record clamp is real small. If it doesn't come with some you'd have to make your own cleaning solution - I have a recipe somewheres for homebrew but my dealer offers to mixup batches whenever. Uses a couple things like toner developer or something to remove residue...gotta go find the recipe!

[nrwjbl]

Back in the 70's audio magazines recommended playing vinyl-collections WET. In Europe most known equipment was LencoClean. Record surface was moistened during playing by a special "tonearm" filled with "Lenco-Super-Mixture" and the stylus running in liquid. Sound was fine as long as playing record wet. Those days impressed by that marketing-gag I treated lots of records with that fluid. Some of my friends lost their stylus as glue dissolved from system. I never had that with my EMT.

Later I wished playing them dry again as I was fed up with that paddling in liquid when ready for listening music. That was a shock for me as it was no more possible playing my records the dry way. There where klicks and ticks and distortion so to forget about enjoyable listening.
Actually I'd "lost" all my records after applying wet method.

I tried different ways cleaning surfaces again. The only efficient way to do was buying a Keith Monks II and clean records without any trace. And that worked fine, some had to be cleaned 2-3 times but now they are fine again and I saved my collection by using that machine. Nowadays there are different machines on the market.
I find KM most professional and easy to service. Noise while vacuuming liquid is pretty low and you can use it even in your living room.

peter

[Rolf]

Omy ooo may. So much hope ... so much to to care fore.

You analog people makes me think Edidon.

[SEAWOLF97]

Omy ooo may. So much hope ... so much to to care fore.

You analog people makes me think Edidon.

Rolf , maybe if you have nothing positive to contribute, then this is not the thread for you ?? In your tagline you say "It's really all about music" , and we are discussing how to get the best music out of our gear. :D

The thing thats funny is that vinyl playback has a HIGHER sampling rate than Cd's do

[Mr. Widget]

Omy ooo may. So much hope ... so much to to care fore.

You analog people makes me think Edidon.You my friend, make me laugh... :D

You don't need a $25K turntable to hear the difference. A friend found an old $100 Sanyo DD table at the dump and took it home... even with the old $25 Audio Technica cartridge running through his receiver's built in phono stage he was amazed at what he had been missing. Now he is using a borrowed Rega and new Shure cartridge and a borrowed phono stage... there is no comparison. :bouncy:

FWIW: Red Book CD makes me think of the dark ages... let's hope we emerge from the other side with 192/24.

Widget

[rs237]

There are people whom convenience is more important than a good sound.:D
regards
juergen

:uhmmmm:

[hjames]

There are people whom convenience is more important than a good sound.:D
regards
juergen

:uhmmmm:

hey, when I am jogging in the neighborhood, or taking a trip in the car, it IS all about convenience.

But when I am home and have time to relax and just listen ...
my requirements are so much different!

[rs237]

Yes you are right, my answer was not entirely serious, therefore, the smily. But for everything you have to enjoy what you want, more or less prepare. So why is it so bad if his records washes ?

regards

juergen

[hjames]

Yes you are right, my answer was not entirely serious, therefore, the smily. But for everything you have to enjoy what you want, more or less prepare. So why is it so bad if his records washes ?

regards

juergen

Well, its not bad to me, frankly cleaning sounds like a good idea - I may buy a record rinse'n'vac too, after all this discussion ...

[majick47]

Years ago just about everyone had nothing more than a Discwasher kit to clean their LPs and looking back it wasn't very effective and just moved the dirt and dust around. About five years ago when I got back into vinyl I invested in a record cleaning machine. I strated out with a manual Disc Doctor and graduated to a VPI 16.5 RCM. What a difference from the old days, many of my old LPs are as quiet as a CD. Sure it's work but the results are well worth it. Where I have both a CD and LP of the same "album" it's rare when the LP doesn't kill the CD.

[pioneer]

I found one on eBay...

http://cgi.ebay.com/V-P-I-Record-vacuum-Cleaner-VPI-HW16-HW-16_W0QQitemZ280191255225QQihZ018QQcategoryZ48648QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

looks like a vacuum box. so what about taking the home vacuum with a soft but porous cloth around the wand brush and cleaning it ? (after using alcohol on it)

I bought a VPI 16 record cleaning machine last year on Ebay for approx $150. It works great but I would recommend upgrading it to the 16.5 which I did with a kit from Elusivedisc cost $69 http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=HW-3015
This was a huge improvement it needed a hole enlaged to fit the new vacuum pickup, that was fairly simple, I bought a cork mat so that the records would tighten securely and after a good cleaning it was ready to go.
They are loud when in use but certainly worth it particularly if you are picking up yard sale LP's. I use the VPI cleaning fluid but will try something else when I run out.

[Bernard Wolf]

This site has everything you could ever want to know about cleaning records. The Disc Doctor not only sells cleaning fluids and brushes but also explains how to use them. He actually believes manually cleaning a record is superior to machine cleaning.. check it out.

http://www.discdoc.com/p14.html

[jblwolf]

I have been using Kodak Photo-Flo 200,mixed with distilled water for over 30 years.I think it may have been Phillips-BASF-AFGA?? that did research on vinyl restoration and its really does a great job cleaning/restoring vinyl.

[SEAWOLF97]

I've always used 100% Isopropanol instead of the Discwasher fluid. It dissolves fingerprints instantly and does a good job of removing most things that end up on records. It evaporates quckly too so it won't cause any incidental damage to your stylus (some say alcohol can loosen up the glue that bonds the stylus to the cantilever but I've never had that happen). jblnut


Back in the 70's audio magazines recommended playing vinyl-collections WET. In Europe most known equipment was LencoClean. Record surface was moistened during playing by a special "tonearm" filled with "Lenco-Super-Mixture" and the stylus running in liquid. Sound was fine as long as playing record wet.
I find KM most professional and easy to service. Noise while vacuuming liquid is pretty low and you can use it even in your living room.

peter


This site has everything you could ever want to know about cleaning records. l (http://www.discdoc.com/p14.html)


I have been using Kodak Photo-Flo 200,mixed with distilled water for over 30 years.


the above is what I was asking for by starting this thread , thanx and plse keep it up.

[remusr]

I found the recipe for use with my VPI:
10 drops Kodak Photo-Flow(200??),
1 liter 70% isopropyl alcohol
3 liters distilled water
It says not to use rubbing alcohol, must contain bad stuff for vinyl or leaves residue.

[rs237]

Cleaning is one thing. The important thing is the drying. This brings only vacuum the desired results. After a drop of oil. But that right. Either expensive oil from the HiFi shop, or cheap Sharkoil (Squalan) from the pharmacy. The one for $ 60, the other for $ 15. It is both the same.

regards

juergen

[nrwjbl]

Forgot to mention the mixture for cleaning fluid I use for many years:

3 units of Isopropanol alc (minimum 70% better 100%)
7 units of double distilled water (no mineral left overs)
1-3 drops of wetting-agent (Kodak etc.)
1 drop of dishwasher liquid

even records heavily stained can be cleaned with that mixture.

Seems quite pesky cleaning vinyls with a machine - but it pays - try to find an old dusty record with lots of sweaty fingerprints plus sticky coke residues, clean it and listen to it again - you've got a new record. That's the reason I use the machine for. Without a machine you better fling it to your trash can ...

Attached some pics of KM II.

peter

[jblwolf]

I wish I could find the research paper,but I do remember the mix-1.5oz pf to 1qt dist.water,as for any type of other additives there was none.when the study was completed, it was felt at the time that some record cleaners(on the market)-silcone base-alcohol base-sulfate base something?-ammonium base something?-may have a detrimental impact over time on the make up of different vinyls used by record companys.I have only used this solution on my collection,no other additives.I remember doing a recording of A=before/B=after cleaning/treatment of one of a prized Blue Note lps(spare copy)it was like night and day.than 10 years later,I comparing the recording B=after treatment to a fresh recording of the same record with no damage/sound loss.as a matter of fact I used they very same equipment that was used to make the first recording.man talk about having way too much time to enjoy my hobby!!!!I also want to add-have any of you used the straided discharge wire system to remove static charge when playing records?

[loach71]

I found this text years ago on the internet -- but I forgot where :(

I looked up the original Discwasher patent on their cleaning formulation.
The patent is U.S.# 3,951,841. This patent most likely applies to D3 which preceeded D4. I don't know what changes might have been made when going from D3 to D4 but they were likely minor and still fall within the scope of the original patent. The cleaner basically contained an antifungal agent, a surfactant, one or two solvents to keep the surfactant soluble in water and assist in cleaning, and distilled water.

The Patent discussion indicates the following possibilities:

1. The antifungal agent was sodium azide and probably ran between 0.0001% and 0.004% by weight.

2. The surfactant was either Triton X-114 or Triton N-57 and probably used somewhere between 0.0003% and 0.025%. These surfactants start to become insoluble in water when the temperature reaches 70 - 75°F which is what makes them effective at cleaning oils/greases but can cause formula stability problems (separation into two layers) without the assistance of a cosolvent or other surfactant.

3. The two possible solvents are propylene glycol and isopropyl alcohol (IPA). Propylene glycol is probably run between 0.001% and 0.2%. The patent suggests IPA is run anywhere from 0.01% up to 5%. Since this cleaner can be thought of as being similar to a glass cleaner, the total solids level usually does not exceed 0.1% by weight (glass cleaners are prone to leaving visible streaking above this level). Thus, my best guess at the original D3 Discwasher solution is:

Sodium Azide = 0.004%
Surfactant (most likely Triton X-114) = 0.025%
Propylene Glycol = 0.01% to 0.075% (probably closer to the high end)
IPA = Won't hurt to run the full 5%
Distilled Water = quantity sufficient to add up to 100%

[hjames]

Anyone remember the Ball system "Soundguard" circa 1976 or so ...the idea was to clean your records, then apply a "slick finish" with their spray that created a low friction surface to "dramatically lengthen the life of your records".
I swear that over time, that stuff etched the surface of some of my import albums and added a ton of record noise ...




I wish I could find the research paper,but I do remember the mix-1.5oz pf to 1qt dist.water,as for any type of other additives there was none.when the study was completed, it was felt at the time that some record cleaners(on the market)-silcone base-alcohol base-sulfate base something?-ammonium base something?-may have a detrimental impact over time on the make up of different vinyls used by record companys.I have only used this solution on my collection,no other additives.I remember doing a recording of A=before/B=after cleaning/treatment of one of a prized Blue Note lps(spare copy)it was like night and day.than 10 years later,I comparing the recording B=after treatment to a fresh recording of the same record with no damage/sound loss.as a matter of fact I used they very same equipment that was used to make the first recording.man talk about having way too much time to enjoy my hobby!!!!I also want to add-have any of you used the straided discharge wire system to remove static charge when playing records?

[SEAWOLF97]

Anyone remember the Ball system "Soundguard" circa 1976 or so ...the idea was to clean your records, then apply a "slick finish" with their spray that created a low friction surface to "dramatically lengthen the life of your records".
I swear that over time, that stuff etched the surface of some of my import albums and added a ton of record noise ...

and there was a spray that solidified on the surface, and you peeled it off and with it any dust/dirt that was in the tracks was now stuck in the stuff.

[jblwolf]

I have record collecting buddys that used the discwasher products as well as 3M's? soundguard and Last sound? products and now 20 years later their lp's are now more or less unplayable.we have tried using to Pho-flo mix on them but it really did do much good unless you play them wet,seems the damage that those products did was permanent.I would also stay away from a product named Groovy cleaner,over the years I've seen this product start some type of mold to grow on the vinyl.maybe we need a list/poll of products to stay away from.

[Hoerninger]

Once I got a very dirty disk "Petit Fleur" by Chris Barber.
(I like to ask friends for their old disks to "preserve" the music on CD).

But cleaning with the record cleaning unit KNOSTI (http://knosti.de/index_gb.htm) gave no success. KNOSTI is not expensive and normaly does its job pretty well. It has two label bowl to protect the the labels and two brushes to clean the disk.

http://knosti.de/produkte/images/1300001_s.jpg (http://knosti.de/lupe_gb.php?label=0&wg_id=55&wug_id=7&artID=4844)
The sizzling noise kept on to be very nasty. I thought to myself it is the dirt, there are not so many scratches. At that time my daughter had a job at a petrol station and I got in mind there is a car wash. The agents for cars can solve dirt pretty well and they will not damage the surface optically - otherwise the car wash can shut its doors.

I took a drop of the car washs agent into KNOSTI and I had the success. I played the wet disk and recorded it on the PC. "Petit Fleur" did not have the sound of a campfire anymore, and had its French charm back again.

So, is a car wash agent good? It depends but I would better say no. After cleaning and playing dry I observed that there must be a residuum in the tracks. The needle fetched some creamy material out of the groove and I had to clean it. This happened more than one time.

Just 2cts.
__________
Peter

[nrwjbl]

... soundguard and Last sound? ...

I used Discofilm (Last?) long time ago and it's still on the market. You evenly distribute the liquid on your disc and it takes at least 6-8 hours to solidify. It's intended that dust and dirt will be imprisoned in that plastic foil and you just rip it off and all is fine...

Maybe I'm not very talented in applying this method, but after tearing off the foil there were still some left-overs on the surface in the grooves, not visible but audible like an explosion when the stylus hit them high level. The stylus could have been damaged by plastic residues still there. There was no chance to remove it again without a cleaning machine.

I never tried it again because of this experience, I think it's pretty expensive and only suited for people investing years to clean their collection.
Cleaning a record on my machine takes max. 5 minutes and I have the best result I can ever get. Maybe you want to try, but be careful when applying this stuff.

peter

[nrwjbl]

So, is a car wash agent good? It depends but I would better say no. __________
Peter

Hi Peter,

that's correct, you should not try again as there will remain residues on the record.
Better try Ilford wetting agent or Kodak Photo-Flo Solution. Both decrease water-surface tension, minimize water marks and streaks on the surface and intensify cleaning effect. There will be no residues after drying. I use it for more than 15 years and my vinyls are still fine.
You only need drops and you get it at reasonable prices.

peter

[SEAWOLF97]

Most of the record cleaning machines are 'wet systems" with vacuum.

Instead of vacuum, could one just crank up the air compressor and hit them with 100 psi of air ??

[Hoerninger]

Better try Ilford wetting agent or Kodak Photo-Flo Solution.

Peter,

thank you for your response. I suppose you gave a good advice. Do I get these agents at a photo dealer (Fotohändler)? Although I read about Kodak I have never tried it before.

"Brute force" has only been an adventure. But the disk is playable again, it was full of dust and may be other dirt. The fluid of KNOSTI did not get it.

At Amazon you can get "Petit Fleur" as CD just as new. ;)
___________
Peter

[nrwjbl]

Peter,

Do I get these agents at a photo dealer (Fotohändler)?
Peter

Hi Peter,
yes get it from a good photo dealer or order it via net.
It is not essential having it, but preferable. Otherwise apply just 1-2 drops of dishwasher but wetting-agents have no disturbing admixtures.
Enjoy your Petite Fleur, very nice standard.

peter

[qcautosports]

Most of the record cleaning machines are 'wet systems" with vacuum.

Instead of vacuum, could one just crank up the air compressor and hit them with
100 psi of air ??I use 70% Distilled water, 30% Iso Alcohol (91 or higher grade and don't use rubbing alcohol, and a few drops of Dish Washing Soap. This is what I use for my VPI 16.5. After vacuuming, I then pour (or you can use a small spray bottle) pure distilled water to wash any leftover cleaning fluid, turn the vac on and spin two revolutions and I'm done.

If you don't have a RCM, scrubing the record with the same mixture will do the job. You can then rinse it with tap water from the faucet and after that, do a final rinse with distilled water and let dry. And be carefull not to wet the labels. This worked for me, it will surely work for you.http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m172/qctirecenter/EMPIRE/ce761e9d.jpg
I don't have thousands of records but I did consider investing on a RCM. It's worth it. I have a very simple and cheap set-up but with the right listening position and speaker placement (I am a near field listener), and clean records, you'll enjoy hours of listening pressure with no fatigue. I am proud to say that my system sounds expensive.=)
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m172/qctirecenter/EMPIRE/d2909159.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m172/qctirecenter/EMPIRE/1d00aaf0.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m172/qctirecenter/EMPIRE/3a2d5db1.jpg

[SEAWOLF97]

this link was in the old thread and the DIY machine looks pretty EZ....:D

http://www.teresaudio.com/haven/cleaner/cleaner.html

[louped garouv]

i hope to finally build one next week

:)

[majick47]

Recommend anyone interested in a RCM keep an eye on Audiogon for a reasonably priced preowned RCM. I purchased two, a VPI 16.5 that was a unused display demo from a dealer and a DiscDoctor manual RCM from a private party. Some of these are RCMs have little use and sometimes are listed for rock bottom prices. Recently a DiscDoctor $60 obo, a VPI 16 $180 obo. If you can afford the VPI 16.5 that would be the way to go.

[Wayner]

I'm surprised to see no mention of record cleaning machines from Nitty Gritty. I've used one of theirs for a year or two with very good results.

[89-300ce]

I've been using a model 3 Nitty Gritty for over 20 years. Works great, but noisy. They seem very durable.

Jorg

[rs237]

Someone has experience with this cleaning machine.

http://www.zenn.com.sg/zenn_record_cleaning_machine.htm

regards

juergen

[SEAWOLF97]

hows this for a tt ?? kewl ??

also, was cleaning and found a headshell with a hisute looking cartridge and stylus..only name I can get off it is "panama" ...anyone heard of it ?? And I turned up a V-15 mk2 with no stylus. Anyone interested ??

[sonofagun]

hey, when I am jogging in the neighborhood, or taking a trip in the car, it IS all about convenience.

But when I am home and have time to relax and just listen ...
my requirements are so much different!

I'm working on a turntable for joggers :applaud:

- has a few bugs to get out :blink:

[SEAWOLF97]

also, was cleaning and found a headshell with a hisute looking cartridge and stylus..only name I can get off it is "panama" ...anyone heard of it ?? And I turned up a V-15 mk2 with no stylus. Anyone interested ??

here's the "panama" ...it sounds pretty good, can find NOTHING about it.

[SEAWOLF97]

here's the "panama" ...it sounds pretty good, can find NOTHING about it.

Panama went completely dead ...oh well. Now using a V15/3.

Found my "Cosmic Sounds of the Zodiac" disk (see "whats playing now" thread). made in 1967, it was ...what's the best word ?? ...contaminated ?

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=205483#post205483

Ignoring all the replies in this thread , I took it to the kitchen sink , hand rubbed dish soap all over , thoroughly rubbed in and off ,rinsed, then dried it with a towel, then went back over it with the discwasher brush and D4 and wow !!! that really worked.. sounds VG ..not like new, but VG !! :D

[LRBacon]

Found my "Cosmic Sounds of the Zodiac" disk (see "whats playing now" thread). made in 1967, it was ...what's the best word ?? ...contaminated ?

I had that LP. Haven't listened to it for close to 40 years. Kinda different. I have also used the dish soap method you described on LP's before. It's been a number of years, too.
I have a V-15 type IV cartridge, that I haven't used for quite awhile either, it's on a Sony PSX-6 DD turntable. Thought the viscous damped brush was the cat's meow, I could finally listen to warped LP's without the tone arm jumping half way across the disc.

Larry

[SEAWOLF97]

So I got a MapleShade catalog in the mail last week and its mostly snake oil audio enhancements.....but I read about STEAM CLEANING records in there..

http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/audioproducts/deepcleaningsystem.php

and say "Oh yeah, that might work , uh huh " and remembering that I've got a couple of steamers that look just like the catalog pic ( cute little buggers - "made in Italy" ...the cat says theirs shoots at 140 degrees , so got mine going and shot it at a cooking thermometer and it was 145-150 ,,,cool ,,,so tried it out on an unwanted Graham Nash record and then played it ... My My My , it sure did clean up all the old nasty dirt , checked and no warpage ... will continue experiment again before using on good vinyl ...but so far VERY GOOD :applaud:

their steamer:

[Doc Mark]

Evening, All,

I have lots of records, and used the regular old Discwasher system for more than 30 years, with absolute success. I read in this thread how someone who had used one like that, ended up with records that were almost unlistenable. :blink: I've never had problem one with that system, and all the records I bought brand new back then, still look and sound like brand new, and that's one heck of a lot of records! ;):D

The only thing that I do in addition to the regular Discwasher stuff, is to use a "Zerostat" anti-static gun. I've had that, too, for more years than I can remember. The one I currently own is my second one, actually, as the first one died after many years of use. Maybe that's why the dirt actually comes off the record, as the Zerostat gun causes it to lose static and therefore be more easily picked up. I used to prove that it worked, to any skeptics, by blowing up a balloon, tying it off, then rubbing it on my leg to create some static and sticking it to the wall. One or two shots with the Zerostat gun, and it fell right off the wall! In our business today, I still use it on days when we have a lot of static electricity in the air. I have to measure myriad tiny items into small plastic bags, and on those days, the stuff sticks to the sides of the bags, and makes a real mess! So, I just grab my Zerostat gun, and after a couple of shots, everything is where it is supposed to be, with no muss, no fuss. I have had such wonderful luck with the Discwasher/Zerostat combination, that I will most certainly just keep on using it. The outstanding condition of my record collection speaks for that system's efficacy. Oh, and my Sure V15 III has lasted for the same amount of time, and I believe it still has it's original stylus. Had it measured once, many years, ago, and was told it was almost perfect with very little wear. For what it's worth..... Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[SEAWOLF97]

I have lots of records, and used the regular old Discwasher system for more than 30 years, with absolute success.
Doc

Doc ...when I was working on my own purchased new LP's , the D4 system worked OK, but those records have been well picked over by my kids ( my dotter is a part time DJ in Germany, son a college student - getting into vinyl ) and so have been rebuilding the collection this summer , mainly from Thrifts and garage sales ( see this thread ==>> http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2724 ) and most of the LP's need more help than the D4 can provide .... I am picky about the ones I purchase, but some of those that look perfect in the store ...well, they .......:(

So being unable to afford a RCM , I'm happy for any cleaning tips and happy finding that the steam method may hold promise.

[Doc Mark]

Hey, Seawolf,

Spot on, my Friend, and well said! I'm really picky about my records, and even when I buy a used one, if it doesn't appear almost mint, I won't spring for it. Right now, I've rearranged the living room, and our TV is now setting on top of the door to the turntable! So, no LP's for me, at least for a while, and I miss them already! :(;) Glad you chance upon the steam cleaning method, and that it works so well for you. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[gerard]

I bought one disc cleaning system for kabusa .
In fact it is a nitty gritty but less expensive ( 159.00 $ ).

http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/rcleaner.htm

Works perfectly , clean the Lp , less noise , no cracks any more on classical records .

Use my own cleaning solution with water , alcohol and wetting agent .

Gerard

[SEAWOLF97]

I was reading a CL ad for used tt that said

"Use this with an USB adapter to make mp3's from your analog records"

is there such a thing ?? rca to usb ? does it sound ok (if it does exist)

looked a little more and yes, I guess there is ..
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001ARZDLS?smid=A256KD9C1BPC5J&tag=nextag-mi-mp-delta-20&linkCode=asn

so if using this, do you then lose the RIAA curve ?

[hjames]

I was reading a CL ad for used tt that said

"Use this with an USB adapter to make mp3's from your analog records"

is there such a thing ?? rca to usb ? does it sound ok (if it does exist)

looked a little more and yes, I guess there is ..
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001ARZDLS?smid=A256KD9C1BPC5J&tag=nextag-mi-mp-delta-20&linkCode=asn

so if using this, do you then lose the RIAA curve ?

Your digital capture/conversion software should handle the RIAA EQ - on my MAC, its "Final Vinyl" - came with the iMic from Griffin software.

[SEAWOLF97]

So I got a MapleShade catalog in the mail last week and its mostly snake oil audio enhancements.....but I read about STEAM CLEANING records in there..

darn .... it works well , just wipe LP down when wet with a good record cleaning brush :)

[SEAWOLF97]

I think that the magic solution has arrived....:D

hand washing did well for my vinyl, but not quite good enuff , same for steaming...so I combined the two

using an old tt dustcover, I turn it upside down straddling the kitchen sink, half fill it with luke warm water with just a couple drops of dish washing soap, let marinate a minute or two ...then brush down both sides with a parostat cleaning cylendar,,,then,,,,without draining too much saopy water from it,,,place it on a flattened bath towel on the countertop and then steam both sides and brush down again with a diskwasher brush ....then damp it dry with another towel ... WOW !!! have saved many "beyond hope" records ....out of a hundred or so, only 2 have tacoed on me ....Goldfinger & The Graduate ....hmmm, both movie soundtracks and both light weight vinyl ....but the 180g disks are bulletproof and never warp ......flattened the tacos under a big stack and even they came back OK...success :bouncy: :applaud:

[jblsound]

I use a solution of 50/50% rubbing alcohol/distilled water. I spray it on the record and use the cleaning brush from a Sound Guard kit and then wipe it again with a piece of old T shirt soaked in distilled water and then dry it with another piece of T shirt.
Finally I use the vacuum wand with, a clean brush attachment, to suck up any remaining dirt particles and water. That has brought back from the grave many old LPs to at least 90+% clean.

[scorpio]

I've used a simple Moth DIY RCM, it is quite basic and noisy but works OK. However, I never enjoyed the magic of getting noisy records back to life using the standard isopropanol/distilled water/drops of washing liquid.

Going through this thread, I checked the Kodak photo flow and realized that this is a well know non-ionic surfactant from the nonylphenol ethoxylated family. This is a family of surfactant that is the very best wetting agent there is, I know it well has having been involved in wetting and spreading issues for many years in my work as a chemist. The negative of nonylphenol ethoxylates is that they are bad when getting into the environment, being non biodegradable and having endocrine disrupting properties. For these last two reasons, the family has been banned for use in most developped countries.

Good thing is, being a chemist, I could find a small sample in our labs, and I've tried it instead of the usual cleaning liquid I used until now. Guess what, it did the trick, I never managed to have older noisy records cleaned so well and deeply in just two passes. I would not say that they become as noise free as a CD's, but very close to good quality new vinyl.

Remember this name of nonylphenol ethoxylates (classic trade names are Makon 1O, Nonipol 9, Triton W-30 but there are many others), it's unbeatable, and with it's water solubility, I bet the very little residue will be washed away with a single distilled water rinse. Also, it's negative properties I mentioned above are not really an issue considering the amount used in even hard core record cleaning, it has really been banned because it used to be used at hundred of thousand of tons a year, not the few drops we'd use.

I have salvaged about 40 mls of it, this should ensure me many years of superb cleaning. I'll see if I can make any stock of the stuff whenever I can locate any.

[SEAWOLF97]

being ultra frugal ( read cheap ) , but knowing the benefits of a record clamp/weight ( really does hold down a less-than-flat LP) I've been using a big rubber foot from a dead JBL sub , with the hole drilled out. works well.

BUT , my new (2me) B&O table is so low profile that the sub foot wont fit and be able to close the cover ..:(

got to looking around for a round object, abt the right weight and low profile ..
NECESSITY IS THE MOTHER OF INVENTION....

A hockey puck !!!! perfect ...drill 'er out and you've saved $35 :applaud:

gonna find a JBL sticker to go over the tacky Portland Winterhawks one..

I like it :bouncy::bouncy:

[jblsound]

I've got a few NHL pucks, I'll have to give that a try.
He shoots, He scores!:applaud:

[SEAWOLF97]

I've got a few NHL pucks, I'll have to give that a try.
He shoots, He scores!:applaud:

turns out that the hockey puck was too wide and the sensor arm was bumping into it .....started looking for a smaller replacement -abt same weight, but less diameter-

and bingo !! found an old dual tt counterweight that was abt correct weight, fits under the low dustcover...but hole was much bigger than the spindle....

so glued it to an upside down 45rpm adapter ...and its now PERFECT :applaud:

[Wagner]

Keith Monks is the Rolls-Royce (if you can afford it) and the best choice if you are serious and want results. The VPI machine is faster, a big plus for those occasional record cleaning orgies of 50 or more discs.

1st Runner Up and 99% as effective as the Keith Monks - the VPI 16.5 which is what I was able to afford.

I own about 5,000 Lps, most of them from thrifts, library sales etc although I do have a fairly good number of premium discs purchased new, like my Beatles and Classic Records re-issues.

I have tried and used many of the methods discussed here over the years, with varying results.

I can tell you this; if you are SERIOUS about record care (and accumulating from "dubious" sources) and have, or plan on having, a significant number of titles in your collection, then a vacuum machine is the ONLY way to go.

Every thing else is a waste of time and energy (and money if you have a lot of titles). A lot of us have to conserve that as best possible.

And for the ridiculously filthy yard sale treasures? Pre-wash with lukewarm water and a little Dawn in your kitchen sink before you put them on your machine. Avoids contaminating the brush strips on the VPI (like washing your car with a dirty rag).
Not an issue with the Monks machine; that's it's major advantage over the VPI beside sex appeal.

If you don't want to spend money, then the next best thing to a machine is good old soap and water. May I suggest original Dawn concentrate, nice clean new white towels for the drying and a good brush. It'll do everything that steamer can do and better (safer).
I'm going to go back and re-read, but if that process actually warped a record I would venture to say it is a flawed choice.

Avoid wetting labels. This can devalue a disc and is worth thinking about, even if you are only in it for the beautiful noise.

Enjoy,
Thomas

[Wagner]

For what it's worth, the Library of Congress chose VPI machines and Simon York tables for their massive archiving projects stared about 10+ years ago.

Thomas

[Wagner]

I've used a simple Moth DIY RCM, it is quite basic and noisy but works OK. However, I never enjoyed the magic of getting noisy records back to life using the standard isopropanol/distilled water/drops of washing liquid.

Going through this thread, I checked the Kodak photo flow and realized that this is a well know non-ionic surfactant from the nonylphenol ethoxylated family. This is a family of surfactant that is the very best wetting agent there is, I know it well has having been involved in wetting and spreading issues for many years in my work as a chemist. The negative of nonylphenol ethoxylates is that they are bad when getting into the environment, being non biodegradable and having endocrine disrupting properties. For these last two reasons, the family has been banned for use in most developped countries.

Good thing is, being a chemist, I could find a small sample in our labs, and I've tried it instead of the usual cleaning liquid I used until now. Guess what, it did the trick, I never managed to have older noisy records cleaned so well and deeply in just two passes. I would not say that they become as noise free as a CD's, but very close to good quality new vinyl.

Remember this name of nonylphenol ethoxylates (classic trade names are Makon 1O, Nonipol 9, Triton W-30 but there are many others), it's unbeatable, and with it's water solubility, I bet the very little residue will be washed away with a single distilled water rinse. Also, it's negative properties I mentioned above are not really an issue considering the amount used in even hard core record cleaning, it has really been banned because it used to be used at hundred of thousand of tons a year, not the few drops we'd use.

I have salvaged about 40 mls of it, this should ensure me many years of superb cleaning. I'll see if I can make any stock of the stuff whenever I can locate any.


Kodak Photo-Flo is readily available. So much so, you can buy it by the gallon off Amazon, by the classic trade name "Kodak Photo-Flo".
Get 'em while they're HOT!
Guess we're not "developped". :bouncy:

Thomas

[SEAWOLF97]

I can tell you this; if you are SERIOUS about record care (and accumulating from "dubious" sources) and have, or plan on having, a significant number of titles in your collection, then a vacuum machine is the ONLY way to go.

Every thing else is a waste of time and energy (and money if you have a lot of titles). A lot of us have to conserve that as best possible.

seem rather reaching and not altogether true.


Kodak Photo-Flo is readily available. So much so, you can buy it by the gallon off Amazon, by the classic trade name "Kodak Photo-Flo".
Get 'em while they're HOT!
Guess we're not "developped". :bouncy:

Thomas

I started checking vinylengines forums after this thread started ...
the consensus is "DO NOT USE PHOTOFLO"


, nice clean new white towels for the drying and a good brush.
Thomas

white ? white is still a dye color



I'm going to go back and re-read, but if that process actually warped a record I would venture to say it is a flawed choice.

have had no further issues with the steamer



Avoid wetting labels. This can devalue a disc and is worth thinking about, even if you are only in it for the beautiful noise.

I watched the Utube video on record producing ...the labels are pressed into the hot vinyl , not stuck on..have had no label problems with my methods

[Hoerninger]

"DO NOT USE PHOTOFLO"

Hitherto I have not read this neither in an English nor in a German forum.
I use a German equivalent product and I am very satisfied with the result.
____________
Peter

[Wagner]

seem rather reaching and not altogether true.



I started checking vinylengines forums after this thread started ...
the consensus is "DO NOT USE PHOTOFLO"



white ? white is still a dye color



have had no further issues with the steamer



I watched the Utube video on record producing ...the labels are pressed into the hot vinyl , not stuck on..have had no label problems with my methods


An "expert" in under (2) years!
Congratulations! :applaud:
I've been collecting and archiving for more than 40, guess I'm just a slow learner. :(
Enjoy your records! :bouncy:
Thomas

[SEAWOLF97]

An "expert" in under (2) years!
Congratulations! :applaud: Thomas
not altogether true, again.
have been enjoying records from the mid 60's to mid 80's and then again in the last 2
(like many others):bouncy:


"I've been collecting and archiving for more than 40, guess I'm just a slow learner. :(
"

some people have 40 years experience, some have 1 year - 40 times.

[MikeBrewster77]

...if not a bit overwhelming:

http://musicangle.com/feat.php?id=54&page=0

[SEAWOLF97]

...if not a bit overwhelming:

http://musicangle.com/feat.php?id=54&page=0

thanx for that link Mike....not ready to give up my tried & proven method yet