4311/4313 help

[p greenlund]

I am new to the site and need to sort out phase question on the older JBL's is it true the the phase should be reversed at the speaker?

[Mr. Widget]

I am new to the site and need to sort out phase question on the older JBL's is it true the the phase should be reversed at the speaker?I moved your post to this new thread.

Yes, most older JBLs have the opposite polarity of the industry standard... modern JBLs are now following the industry standard.

Anyway, in answer to your question... generally no. If you are running JBLs and other speakers in the same room, you will need to reverse the leads on either pair of speakers so that they are all in phase with each other, but if there are only JBLs in the room, the notion of absolute phase in a home playback system is rather silly... some amps invert phase, others do not, in the recording process some mics and their associated electronics invert and others do not...:blah:


Widget

[Mr. Widget]

Reversed relative to what?
Come on Heather... are you joking, or have you not been paying attention for the last couple of years.:)


Widget

[Mr. Widget]

Sure I've been reading - but what I'm asking is what did HE mean?Seemed pretty obvious to me... "Are my JBLs bass akwards?"


Just trying to keep things simple... the polarity question, the impedance question, the JBL numbering scheme, the JBL Consumer vs. Pro equivalency, the sensitivity question, the alnico vs. ferrite question... these things just pop up over and over again. We've talked about making a quick answer section to answer all of these reoccurring questions, but as of yet we haven't implemented one.


Widget

[boputnam]

I am new to the site and need to sort out phase question on the older JBL's is it true the the phase should be reversed at the speaker?

If you are talking about the connections INSIDE the cabinet, they should be connected:

4311 and 4313
HF = YEL to Red Terminal
MF = WHT to Red terminal
LF = GRN to Red terminal

On the outside connections, on the rear of the cabinet, you can connect (+) to Red, or Black. JBL designed for the former, but they can be run the latter to have the woofer cone move out on (+) voltage (present industry convention).

Is this what you are asking? :help:

[hjames]

I was trying to get at the nugget of the question he was asking, instead of ASSuming what he mean.
But since you want this to be a thread for future reference in your Quick Answer section, I've killed my posts so you have a nice clean thread -
have a fine day! :)


Seemed pretty obvious to me... "Are my JBLs bass akwards?"


Just trying to keep things simple... the polarity question, the impedance question, the JBL numbering scheme, the JBL Consumer vs. Pro equivalency, the sensitivity question, the alnico vs. ferrite question... these things just pop up over and over again. We've talked about making a quick answer section to answer all of these reoccurring questions, but as of yet we haven't implemented one.


Widget

[Mr. Widget]

I've killed my posts so you have a nice clean thread - have a fine day! :)Fine Day?!

You have a Happy New Year!:bouncy:


Widget

[hjames]

Fine Day?!

You have a Happy New Year!:bouncy:


Widget
Thats Tamale!
Its just eve eve to me and you!

:applaud:

[spwal]

Widget/Bo --

I have made a mess of my connections ever since i found out that the older jbls are backwards.

I assumed that the TAD 2002 were "normal" so i have "red" to "red" on those, and "red" to "black" on every thing else in the cabinet.

im losing my mind, i just dont know anymore....

i dont think it sounds better than it used to, but i dont know anymore.

[boputnam]

I have made a mess of my connections ever since i found out that the older jbls are backwards. :( Actually, the world got it all wrong...


I assumed that the TAD 2002 were "normal" so i have "red" to "red" on those, and "red" to "black" on every thing else in the cabinet.TAD are current convention, (+) to Red = outward movement.


...im losing my mind...There is a different forum for that! :rotfl:


i dont think it sounds better than it used to, but i dont know anymore.Let's review...

1. You using are using the 4345 I think?
2. Are you biamped?
3. If #1 and #2 are yes, inside the cabinet you should have all solild coloured, non-black striped, wires connected to the Red terminals on the JBL drivers. The TD-2002 should be connected with the YELLOW solid wire connected to its Black terminal.
4. Once #3 is done correctly, you could then cross-connect the entire cabinet hook-up, so that the (+) from the amps connects to the Black posts on the cabinet rear. This would have the 2245H go out on (+) voltage (as will other like-phased elements).

Conversely, you could have all the internal connections to all the JBL drivers as solid coloured, non-black striped, wires to the Black terminals, and then the TD-2002 should be YELLOW wire to its Red Terminal. In this case you would connect the amps (+) to the Red cabinet posts.

:)

[hjames]

:( Actually, the world got it all wrong...

TAD are current convention, (+) to Red = outward movement.

There is a different forum for that! :rotfl:

Let's review...

1. You using are using the 4345 I think?
2. Are you biamped?

:)
He's a 4341 kinda guy, except for b@stardizing it with them Thads!
You taught him that, dincha? :applaud:

[boputnam]

You taught him that ... dincha? We'll gladly teach anyone willing to learn... ;)

Anyway, above instructions valid for the 4341, as well.

[spwal]

gracias. this is huge

spwal

[hjames]

So the basic convention of those folks with oldies and newies mixed in a system. The big 4 ways can be connected backwards from the amps, even when biAmped (-to red, + to black on the main cabinets, (2 pairs of connectors, one for just woofers, one feeds the original crossovers that feed the other 3 drivers)).
Then wire the rest of the room normally, right? Say, for a 7 way surround system with mixed vintage speakers.



We'll gladly teach anyone willing to learn... ;)

Anyway, above instructions valid for the 4341, as well.

[spwal]

sounds like it makes sense senorita...

------

bo, my scenerio is a little different...


Can someone please review? I am running unterminated 14 guage Canare 4S11 starquad cable from my external crossover directly to each driver via a custom airtight cutout in the back of my speakers for maximum fidelity.

for my needs to keep things simple:


i am not biamped yet -- will be in a few weeks. when i do, i will wire up everything red to red black to black "modern conventionally":

>from the preamp to the active 2 way,

>from the active 2 way to the woofer amp, from the woofer amp to the 2235.

>from the active 2 way to the 3 way charge coupled passive, from the 3 way charge coupled passive to the 2121 and 2405,

>>EXCEPT to the TAD 2002, which i will reverse. I will go black to red and red to black from the passive 3 way crossover to the driver.

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? it makes sense to me i think... that should get things at least in basic phase correct?

thank you

[spwal]

bump. anyone wanna give me the thumbs up on this?

thanks

[duaneage]

A lot of questions can be answered with a 1.5 volt battery on the speaker terminals.

[spwal]

I have heard of this technique, putting a 1.5 v across the terminals and a piece of tissue paper on the horn.

i think i will be all set if i wire everything the same, and simply reverse the tads coming from my crossover. that should do it.

thanks

[boputnam]

Then wire the rest of the room normally, right? Say, for a 7 way surround system with mixed vintage speakers.Sorry, I was sleeping the past week... :snore:

Heather, you should be OK, but best to check the polarities to be sure. Pairing a three- or four-way cabinet with a two-way will almost certainly have some portions of the frequency response that are outa phase, cabinets to cabinets. Trial the connections you mention - maybe it is fine.

The sub in a ?.1 system is always tricky - that's why makers put a phase switch on the rear of the cabinet (and often a "turnover frequency" knob). Try both polarity choices (and keep the high-pass filter to as low a "turnover frequency" as possible to minimize overlap with higher range transducers). It's all up to your ears (need a "Happy Ears" smilie...!!).

[boputnam]

bump. anyone wanna give me the thumbs up on this?Yea, OK - waking up. Lemme think about your question...

[boputnam]

Can someone please review? I am running unterminated 14 guage Canare 4S11 starquad cable from my external crossover directly to each driver...Uh, no. Or, you got a typo...? :blink:

In an active system, the crossover outputs go into the amps inputs, then on to the driver(s).
i.e., the crossover sees line-level voltage.

But the rest of your post looks OK.


DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? it makes sense to me i think... that should get things at least in basic phase correct?Yes, I believe so.

[spwal]

yes yes i will go from the 2 way active into the amp then into the woofer.
i will also go from the 2 way active into the amp then into the 3 way passive then to the drivers.

the only thing hooked up "out of phase" will be the connection from the 3 way passive to the tad 2002, which i will wire black to red and red to black.

that should get everything working properly i think.


Uh, no. Or, you got a typo...? :blink:

In an active system, the crossover outputs go into the amps inputs, then on to the driver(s).
i.e., the crossover sees line-level voltage.

But the rest of your post looks OK.

Yes, I believe so.

Thank you!