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Mr. Widget
12-21-2007, 09:58 AM
I just stumbled upon these while looking at the JBL site...

http://www.jblsynthesis.com/products/system_overview.aspx?prod=SYN1-ARRAY&Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA

Looks very interesting.

Widget

Mr. Widget
12-21-2007, 10:02 AM
That SAM1HF unit could easily be incorporated into many DIY designs... looks like an excellent way to get an outstanding top end... or a complete system with their SAM2LF.

Anyone know anything about them?


Widget

boputnam
12-21-2007, 10:08 AM
Reminds me a lot of the system Greg Timbers had in his home Greg Timbers & DIY - looks like things are progressing!

Mr. Widget
12-21-2007, 10:12 AM
Reminds me a lot of the system Greg Timbers had in his home...Ya think?;)

Looking around a bit more I found the list price. One SAM1HF is $3300... yeah sure that is a lot compared to a pair of 20 year old monitors, but for your $3300 you are getting two brand new compression drivers and a state of the art dual horn. I'd say it's a pretty good deal.


Widget

timc
12-21-2007, 11:07 AM
Is it the same horn used in the Array? Is it usable for 2 way use?

I have seen them, but not the price. It's not that bad really.



-Tim

Zilch
12-21-2007, 01:11 PM
I want to know more about the 8" woofers.... :yes:

JBLnsince1959
12-21-2007, 01:58 PM
I want to know more about the 8" woofers.... :yes:

me too. mostly tho, I'll like to know the crosover freq between the sam1 & 2 and 18" sub

hmolwitz
12-25-2007, 07:36 PM
The dual 8 inch drivers are Aluminum cone.
Here is the blurb:
ACCURATE MID-BASS DRIVERS: The 8" (200mm) mid-bass drivers incorporate many of JBL’s patented technologies – such as Symmetrical Field Geometry™ (SFG), Symmetrical Inductance Modulation (SIM) and Vented Gap Cooling™ (VGC) – as well as unique cone and dome materials, to provide tight, smooth midrange sound without harshness, stridency or listener fatigue.
DEEP-ANODIZED CONE AND DOME MATERIAL: The special deep-anodized aluminum cone and dome material, together with the motor features, helps to reduce midband distortions to very low levels (approximately 50dB to 60dB below the fundamental signal driven at 100dB output).
Dual 8” (200mm) deep-anodized-aluminum cone and dome material with dual inside neodymium magnets, shielded motor structure and 2inch (51mm) voice coils

Dual "Inside" Neodymium motor structure: Two Neodymium magnets are used. The "Top" Neodymium magnet is magentized with opposite polarity to the main lower magnet. This inverted dual magnet configuration improves magnetic shielding and offers increase acoustic output.

These look like fairly serious little woofers utilizing all of their best technology to date.

I was interested in the crossover they are using which is a Cobranet digital crossover device.
In my own meanderings I have disliked the idea of dual d/a a/d stacks, and really wonder why they were unable to eliminate that in this very high end solution. If they had pushed digital from the SDP40DH (http://www.jblsynthesis.com/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=SDEC4000&Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA)
directly to the SDEC-4000 (http://www.jblsynthesis.com/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=SDEC4000&Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA) via Cobranet it would seem a cleaner solution.
I haven't figured a way to do this myself (Import Digital 5.1 into Cobranet) but one would think it feasible.
I wonder if this is just a rebadge of the bss ps8810? It seems to have much the same feature set.
I have one and am truly interested in this.

Neat stuff.
Harry

JBL 4645
12-26-2007, 06:52 AM
Is the bass mid enclosure (rear ported)? That’s got to be at least a few grand,:p does JBL sale the (SYNTHESIS® SAM2LF) on there own?

The frigging HF horn is louder than my JBL Control 5, 98db where the control 5 is only 89db. Bet these would sound great for movies in a small room.

http://www.harmanaudio.com/images/products/SAM1HF.jpg


UHF Transducer045Ti 1” (25MM) Pure titanium compression driver with aluminum edge-wound voice coil and 2” (51mm) neodymium motor assembly, mounted in a SonoGlass® constant-directivity horn

High-Frequency Transducer435AL-1 3” (75mm) Aquaplas-treated aluminum-dome compression driver with aluminum edge wound voice coil and neodymium motor assembly, mounted in a vertical SonoGlass® constant directivity horn

Sensitivity (2.83V/1m)98dB

One thing I can’t see that is in the technical specifications is the (horizontal and vertical) paten of the sound?

:happyh::window::tree:

MJC
12-27-2007, 08:31 AM
When I first saw the system, online, I firgured it was the Project Array, set in-wall. If for no other reason, as to the name, SYNTHESIS® ONE ARRAY.
Just like the Synthesis 4, is basicly the Performance Series.

Guido
12-27-2007, 01:37 PM
Ya think?;)

Looking around a bit more I found the list price. One SAM1HF is $3300... yeah sure that is a lot compared to a pair of 20 year old monitors, but for your $3300 you are getting two brand new compression drivers and a state of the art dual horn. I'd say it's a pretty good deal.
Widget

Widget,
the 2431H is app. 400$, so 2900$ for one Horn and a supertweeter?
Thank you.
No matter how we look at it. JBL isn't interested in DIYers any longer! Period.

There is a huge market for those overpriced HiFi Gear. And this market is far more interesting than the DIY market.
Everyone with a bit experience can calculate the margin on a pair of Everest 2 or K2-9800. Even if you fill in spare parts prices (which contain traditionally itself a high margin) you will end with a dream margin.
That's what I learned to understand. No way around it. No sense to complain.

Mr. Widget
12-27-2007, 02:05 PM
Widget,
the 2431H is app. 400$, so 2900$ for one Horn and a supertweeter?
Thank you.
No matter how we look at it. JBL isn't interested in DIYers any longer! Period.Maybe I've been playing around with the TADs too long... a single TAD 4003 driver and horn was around $4750 when they were available.

As for what is a fair profit margin and all that, it is for the market to decide, but I think that undercutting and cheaping out is what leads to lack of healthcare and the use of unsafe plastics and paints... we need to scale back and buy less, but buy better and be prepared to pay a fair wage. America was like that when McIntosh and JBL were the premium brands and eagerly sought around the globe.


Widget

DavidF
12-27-2007, 03:51 PM
Widget,
the 2431H is app. 400$, so 2900$ for one Horn and a supertweeter?
Thank you.
No matter how we look at it. JBL isn't interested in DIYers any longer! Period.

There is a huge market for those overpriced HiFi Gear. And this market is far more interesting than the DIY market.
Everyone with a bit experience can calculate the margin on a pair of Everest 2 or K2-9800. Even if you fill in spare parts prices (which contain traditionally itself a high margin) you will end with a dream margin.
That's what I learned to understand. No way around it. No sense to complain.

JBL is very interested in the DIY market, Guido. Nowadays it is in the automobile market, though, not the home-system market.

I wouldn't be surprised if JBL originally hoped just to break even on the Everest II. A lot of development time, expensive components, and little incentive to tool up for automated assembly since there is a limited volume in sales.

Ian Mackenzie
12-27-2007, 03:52 PM
Guido,

I think with perhaps one exception (Nelson Pass) the people that sell the Hi End HiFi dont care for diy people because it cuts into their 200% margins.

Pass has always supported Diy and he is also very successful commercially. Passlabs continues to grow on both fronts and has proven that very impressive results can be had without spending a fortune.

Unfortunately the market is such that some will only have you believe that you must spend a fortune for the best sound.

The issue with JBL is accessing some of the horns and drivers.

Guido
12-27-2007, 04:00 PM
........ but I think that undercutting and cheaping out is what leads to lack of healthcare and the use of unsafe plastics and paints... we need to scale back and buy less, but buy better and be prepared to pay a fair wage. America was like that when McIntosh and JBL were the premium brands and eagerly sought around the globe.
Widget

Absolute Agreement! Wal Fart killed alot. I'm very proud that we kicked them out of Germany. Finally they gave up here. But we have enough other crap sellers which was the main reason.
I buy less and better. I always did.
Something between 1.500$ and 1.800$ would be a fair price for that SAM. But once again, I do not complain. If one can sell a 500$ product for 3.000$ and still have lucky buyers than one will do so.
I price my work different, but who am I?

Guido
12-27-2007, 04:07 PM
I think with perhaps one exception (Nelson Pass) the people that sell the Hi End HiFi dont care for diy people because it cuts into their 200% margins.

200% is still fair imho if you think about development costs.

We're talking more in the 400-500% region. A lot of this is eaten by the arrogant dealership. It can happen that you want to buy an EVEREST 2 but can't hear it first because the dealer is simply too lazy to unpack them. It really happened here!

Not to speak about margins in the cable sector. 4 digits percentage should be normal there. Or how much RMB do you think the chinese "high end" cable assemblers take home a month?

Guido
12-27-2007, 04:08 PM
Pass has always supported Diy and he is also very successful commercially.

Nelson ROCKS!

richluvsound
12-27-2007, 04:42 PM
Guido,
I remember you telling me about that. Its disgusting . I dont think GT would approve of that kind of attitude being linked to him or the company he works so hard for.

Rich

Ian Mackenzie
12-28-2007, 06:40 AM
200% is still fair imho if you think about development costs.

We're talking more in the 400-500% region. A lot of this is eaten by the arrogant dealership. It can happen that you want to buy an EVEREST 2 but can't hear it first because the dealer is simply too lazy to unpack them. It really happened here!

Not to speak about margins in the cable sector. 4 digits percentage should be normal there. Or how much RMB do you think the chinese "high end" cable assemblers take home a month?

Guido,

If you have the money (not a tyre kicker) whats a $2K air fare to hear a $60K investment under the right conditions.

I put this to someone else who will remain nameless and they were quite offended. Obviously they did not have the money.

That is the route issue and its a good way of weeding out the real market hence distribution as it stands. The flip side is the guy who might just be able to afford it and really appreciate it will squirm and agonise over the decision and piss about with many sleepless nights because he needs to justify the outlay. (no offence to the entire American population intended)

Guido
12-28-2007, 07:08 AM
Obviously they did not have the money.


THAT was NO issue!

Mr. Widget
12-28-2007, 07:52 AM
If you have the money (not a tyre kicker) whats a $2K air fare to hear a $60K investment under the right conditions.While that seems quite logical...



I put this to someone else who will remain nameless and they were quite offended. Obviously they did not have the money.Most of our clients are quite wealthy... a couple could afford their own small country... the other day one was complaining about the $10/mo charge for each of his many satellite receivers in his 16,000 sq ft home. I think it is the same mentality. Just because you have an income that exceeds your needs by 100,000 fold, doesn't mean that you are willing to spend money on something that doesn't seem to be a bargain... a $2K expense to look at some merchandise may not seem like a bargain, though a "free" dealer paid trip including hotel expenses for a pair of "special" Everest IIs costing $65K instead of the $60K "standard" Everest IIs is likely more palatable to some. Personally, I am with you. If I was serious about dropping $60K on a pair of loudspeakers, I'd have no problem spending a few bucks to make sure they were the speakers I wanted.


Widget

4313B
02-06-2012, 10:26 AM
Looking around a bit more I found the list price. One SAM1HF is $3300... yeah sure that is a lot compared to a pair of 20 year old monitors, but for your $3300 you are getting two brand new compression drivers and a state of the art dual horn. I'd say it's a pretty good deal.I just found this thread. I missed it when it was new.

I have been wondering for some time now why more folks weren't buying the SAM1HF's and putting them with LE14H's or 2235H's and now I guess I know why.

Mr. Widget
02-06-2012, 10:47 AM
I just found this thread. I missed it when it was new.

I have been wondering for some time now why more folks weren't buying the SAM1HF's and putting them with LE14H's or 2235H's and now I guess I know why.Apparently I started it years ago... it can be funny to read ones posts from a number of years ago, I don't remember starting the thread much less any of it's content, but I do now know quite a bit about the SAM1HF. The retail price for example isn't $3300 each, but $2500 each. Is that terribly expensive? I think it is fair when you consider a TAD TH-4003 was the same price a few years ago and the SAM1HF comes with brand new factory installed drivers.

I am planning on buying a pair to go with a pair of LE14H-3s I have to do a cosmetic makeover on the 1400 Array. At ~$6K plus my time I'll have a pair of $12K 1400 Arrays that have an aesthetic more in line with my tastes.


Widget

4313B
02-06-2012, 11:05 AM
The retail price for example isn't $3300 each, but $2500 each. Is that terribly expensive?$2.5k sounds better, no pun intended.
I am planning on buying a pair to go with a pair of LE14H-3s I have to do a cosmetic makeover on the 1400 Array. At ~$6K plus my time I'll have a pair of $12K 1400 Arrays that have an aesthetic more in line with my tastes.I'll be interested in what kind of design you come up with.

Titanium Dome
02-06-2012, 11:10 AM
I wouldn't pay retail, and I'm sure you won't either. :)

Mr. Widget
02-06-2012, 11:14 AM
I'll be interested in what kind of design you come up with.Still kicking around a couple... won't get wood to saw for at least another six months or so, probably next winter's project.

Obviously the intent is to minimize the kludged on look of the horn. The easy route is something along the lines of the Vandersteen 5a, and I may take that route, but I am hoping to do better.


Widget

JuniorJBL
02-10-2012, 10:26 AM
I sure like mine!!:D

bubbleboy76
01-03-2013, 04:54 AM
How low can the SAM1HF play?
Could I combine them with my Array 1500s and crossover at 400Hz?

4313B
01-03-2013, 06:03 AM
How low can the SAM1HF play?G.T. uses the 435AL and Array Horn down to ~ 750 Hz in the 1400 Array.

Could I combine them with my Array 1500s and crossover at 400Hz?No.

Titanium Dome
02-08-2013, 04:26 PM
Lest we forget the SAM1HF's less glamorous sibling, I just picked up a single SAM2LF unit and the SAM12X crossover, literally. I drove out to Indio, CA and picked them up today from a former Synthesis® dealer who was blowing out leftover bits and pieces. I paid about 1/3 the normal street price of a SAM2LF to get both pieces, in the box. IME, the normal street price of a SAM2 is about 4/5 the MSRP, so that would make it 1/3 of 4/5 of 1, not including the SAM12X (street price usually just under $400) which was basically free in this deal.

Thanks to forum member RedCoat23 for the ebay tip, which I checked about an hour before the auction ended. :bouncy: One bid and win!

4313B
02-09-2013, 06:05 AM
I always wanted to replace that 8-inch in the 800 Array with that SAM2LF Synthesis 8 transducer. I just never got around to it. I liked the smaller 1000/880/800 Array horn, especially with the 435AL in place of the 175Nd-3.

Those very inexpensive eights and tens in the 1000/880/800 Array definitely do the job, I just like the much more expensive Synthesis 8 better.