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Wintermoon
12-17-2007, 11:46 AM
I recently bought a Behringer DEQ2496 that I am using with my JBL 4435s.

Before I ran the auto room EQ, I set the L-pad knobs to 0. I wonder if I that is correct - letting the digital EQ take care of everything, or if there is any logic in trying to smooth my room response with the 4435's crossover and letting the Behringer finish the job...

I am new to this type of stuff, so sorry if this is an obvious question.

Any thoughts/advice would be appreciated!

Thanks, James

boputnam
12-17-2007, 12:30 PM
Before I ran the auto room EQ, I set the L-pad knobs to 0. I wonder if I that is correct - letting the digital EQ take care of everything, or if there is any logic in trying to smooth my room response with the 4435's crossover and letting the Behringer finish the job...It depends upon your level of sophistication - both from the perspective of your ears and gear. If it was me, I'd never "auto EQ", anything, ever. I am particularly wary of the results (curves) I've seen others get using that function on that same device, unconstrained.

If you have no means to take proper measurements of your room's reaction (read: response) to your 4435's, and you like the result you achieved with this then you're good to go.

IF I was to go this route ( :no: ), the L-pad settings should have little/no impact - you are letting the magical device "correct" for the response post L-pads, so it all should be "fine"...

Skywave-Rider
12-17-2007, 01:46 PM
I just got my DEQ2496 today and it has already failed. Turn it on and it cycles power on/off rapidly and continuously. So BSW gave me an argument, but I'm getting another. The power on/off thing started after about 1 hour of use. I had read that there were overheat problems with early versions.

I intended to use this for RTA on my Altecs to see what my added tweeter is doing -- and to adjust mid and high L-pads too.

I intended to set the measurement mic at about 3 feet to minimize room effects while setting the l-pads. I would then do some room eq at a conventional listening distance, if needed.

So I am delayed in my experiments.

Let me know how your DEQ2496 is working.:(

Wintermoon
12-17-2007, 01:49 PM
It depends upon your level of sophistication - both from the perspective of your ears and gear. If it was me, I'd never "auto EQ", anything, ever. I am particularly wary of the results (curves) I've seen others get using that function on that same device, unconstrained.

If you have no means to take proper measurements of your room's reaction (read: response) to your 4435's, and you like the result you achieved with this then you're good to go.

IF I was to go this route ( :no: ), the L-pad settings should have little/no impact - you are letting the magical device "correct" for the response post L-pads, so it all should be "fine"...

Hi, thanks for the reply.

So far this little box has made a pretty huge difference. I have a temporary listening area setup right now that is not near ideal, so maybe when I put stuff back, it will make less of a difference. I plan to use this combined with room treatments to help me on my quest for audio nirvana... But, so for I am pretty well blown away. Just doing an EQ for each speaker has cleaned up my bass a large amount. It's almost like before bass was sort of a blanket over the whole sound, and now it is separated.

I find that some old metal albums sound much better just by widening the stereo image. Lots of stuff to play with on this unit...

Anyways, just watching the spectrum analyzer while listening to tunes has made it worth the modest cost.:D

Wintermoon
12-17-2007, 01:52 PM
I just got my DEQ2496 today and it has already failed. Turn it on and it cycles power on/off rapidly and continuously. So BSW gave me an argument, but I'm getting another. The power on/off thing started after about 1 hour of use. I had read that there were overheat problems with early versions.

I intended to use this for RTA on my Altecs to see what my added tweeter is doing -- and to adjust mid and high L-pads too.

I intended to set the measurement mic at about 3 feet to minimize room effects while setting the l-pads. I would then do some room eq at a conventional listening distance, if needed.

So I am delayed in my experiments.

Let me know how your DEQ2496 is working.:(

Sorry to hear.

That's one reason why I decided to pay a bit more and purchase locally. I actually powered it up at the store to make sure it was OK.

Better luck with your next one.

Skywave-Rider
12-17-2007, 02:30 PM
I just spoke to BSW again, canceling the exchange, just getting a refund, except for the measurement mic. Going to go out and get one from SamAsh or wherever. So when it breaks again, I can walk it over...

boputnam
12-17-2007, 02:56 PM
...So far this little box has made a pretty huge difference. Yes, I'm sure it is a marked improvement if nothing was there, before. Just be aware that as the sophistication of your knowledge, hearing and system grow, it would be a good thing to ougrow this particular device and move up the food chain. :applaud:


...I find that some old metal albums sound much better just by widening the stereo image. Lots of stuff to play with on this unit... :hmm: My old records are vinyl - you are pretty sophisticated, after all! :rotfl:

But, explain this "wide imaging" thingy...?


...Anyways, just watching the spectrum analyzer while listening to tunes has made it worth the modest cost.:DYea, well there is that. However, start studying the response character, visually, and identify with the different frequencies. Save your preset, but start tweaking the curve yourself. Carefully make some extreme boosts/notches and understand what you are hearing and what is happening. Focus on the A-Weighted SPL curve - that area is where the ear has the most sensitivity and you will notice if things are over-represented there it can be tiring.

Also, if you're really into it, try the Simple Feedback Trainer (http://sft.sourceforge.net). It will humble you and sharpen your frequency recognition skills.

Wintermoon
12-17-2007, 04:16 PM
Yes, I'm sure it is a marked improvement if nothing was there, before. Just be aware that as the sophistication of your knowledge, hearing and system grow, it would be a good thing to ougrow this particular device and move up the food chain. :applaud:

I think it (or another few) will eventually live in my theatre room.


:hmm: My old records are vinyl - you are pretty sophisticated, after all! :rotfl:

lol I like to check the composition of the metal, make sure there isn't too much tin in it... :)


But, explain this "wide imaging" thingy...?

There is a function called "width". With it you can compress or expand the stereo image. I was listening to an older album and it felt like it was missing something compared to some newer stuff. it just didn't have a feeling of breadth. The whole image seemed way too centered. Just expanding it made the album much more listenable... Funny how when I listened to that album 20 years ago on a crappy ghetto blaster I thought it sounded great...


Yea, well there is that. However, start studying the response character, visually, and identify with the different frequencies. Save your preset, but start tweaking the curve yourself. Carefully make some extreme boosts/notches and understand what you are hearing and what is happening. Focus on the A-Weighted SPL curve - that area is where the ear has the most sensitivity and you will notice if things are over-represented there it can be tiring.

It has been a learning experience watching the waveform along with the music. I'm getting a better feel for what frequencies make what sounds.


Also, if you're really into it, try the Simple Feedback Trainer (http://sft.sourceforge.net). It will humble you and sharpen your frequency recognition skills.

will do, thanks!

toddalin
12-17-2007, 06:13 PM
I recently picked one up on the Bay with a mic for $135. I've been using it in designing and tweeking new crossovers. Like you, I place the mic at ~1-2 meters and do it in the room in which the speakers are to be used. I don't do it at the "sweet spot." It is also a fantastic tool for determining the best speaker phasing. Previously, I used an sound leevel meter looking for the louder volume in the crossover area. But with the Behringer, you can "see" what's happening in that area and you find that either phase will yield some freqs louder and others quietier, but one will be smoother.

So far mine is used just for the RTA feature and it's not "in the system." Eventually, one channel may be used for the center to improve intelligibility while the other could augment the subs.

I have a Yamaha RX-Z9 and it autoeqs the system to the "sweet spot." But, like all autoeq, it has its limits in the cut/boost, the Q, and number of bands processed. The Yamaha looks to the worst offenders and while it has 31 bands available, I believe it can ony process 10 at any time. So, by my logic, if I can optimize the crossovers and speaker placement, then maybe those bands that were being corrected are no longer the worst offenders and the Yamaha can go on to work in other areas. (This would apply even if the Yamaha does process 31 bands simultaneously.)

So contrary to boputnam's reply...,
"IF I was to go this route ( :no: ), the L-pad settings should have little/no impact - you are letting the magical device "correct" for the response post L-pads, so it all should be "fine"..."

in my case, it does pay to try to tweek the speakers to the room as best as possible before letting the Yamaha do its thing.

Also contrary to boputnam (sorry guy), the 31 bands on the Behringer are preset and your crossover tweeking may affect areas between the bands to some advantage.

Skywave-Rider
12-18-2007, 03:13 PM
Hey Wintermoon,
I picked up another locally at B&H. Guess what. Another lemon. Does the same thing as the first one as well as other crazy stuff. Can't believe it. What's the serial number on your unit?

readswift
01-01-2008, 08:11 PM
quality control is terrible on those. If something comes out with HDMI that will be the way to go, plug it into the laptop and use software , this way you can beat even the DEQX easily, HDMI is blast if done right.

richluvsound
01-02-2008, 03:23 AM
Hi Readswift,

having Just purchased the DEQX 2.6 P I'd be very interested in your findings

Rich

readswift
01-02-2008, 03:48 AM
HDMI is superior to current audio formats cause one reason: Its totally asynchronous, data contains no clocking information , this fact leads to inherently better jitter spec . There are 8 24bit 192 khz audio channels. Put the cpu resources of a whole x86 core into the equation and everything is set for hi-end DRC.
I never tried the DEQX , only the product of the 90's three letter company whose name escapes me now. Those were big bucks back then.

So, the deqx facts - none of the following are async:


Input source switching (1x SPDIF, 1x AES/EBU, 1x Balanced Analog, 1x RCA Analog)

what is your source into the deqx? Im using Lynx AES-16 , going into Nelson Pass D-1 copies ( no , not the half dollar opamp & delta sigma dac )

readswift
01-02-2008, 04:10 AM
Volume control, implemented post-DAC on the analog signal to maintain full bit-resolution in the digital domain


discrete? hardly

DAC output ... discrete? They would brag about it, hardly has a chance either. Delta sigma converters are dependant on jitter. Why DEQX arent HDMI early adopters? Dunno... Hope we wont argue about whether math is done right on DSP or x86 CPU , cause tale is about (in chronologicla order) :
1. method of clock distribution
2. converter topology
3. current into voltage conversion ( I/V )
4. preamp

I can go into details one by one if there is interset.

readswift
01-02-2008, 05:12 AM
Also , dont forget about a company: Accuphase, something has to be there to justify the price between those products & the deqx ... And there it is , Im biased too :D

nrwjbl
01-02-2008, 06:16 AM
I recently bought a Behringer DEQ2496 that I am using with my JBL 4435s.

Any thoughts/advice would be appreciated!

Thanks, James

Hi James,
some time ago I tried my 4435's with Behringer DEQ2496. At first glance some pretty effect I played with some months with different feelings. In the end I was not satisfied with the reproduction, short: sound for me like a tin can, no matched partner for 4435! I think you can only reach high quality reproduction by using your fantastic speakers in combination with "decent" products.
So next I tried dbx driverack 260. I used it for some months enough to get an impression of its versatility and reproduction quality. Impressive what you can do with this machine. Well, driverack was better than DEQ but at last I returned to reproduction without any digital equipment or treatment.

So I was left pretty uncomfortable and not really satisfied with my chain.
I had some bass boost that I did not appreciate and even using aquaplas dias high-frequency-range did not really satisfy me.

Then I came across a modification that really upset me in the most positive way. GUIDO a well known forum member told me about his charge coupled 4435 crossovers built in his 4435's. In the end I asked him to build a pair for me.
I was not too nervous while waiting for the X-overs, well as I exspected some ... positive effect but nothing more. You should know I'm not expert in electronics and only swimming on the surface concerning this, but I can trust my ears.
By means of a detailed manual I got from Guido I could really easily take out the "old" X-overs, implant the new ones and combine all wires to the drivers, L-Pads and terminals.

Done this I listened to my well known music. I tell you, I was really upset what those x-overs did to my 4435's.:p:p:p
I've reached a sound so perfect I never had before and never by using any digital equipment. Bass now is so deep;), so strong;) and so pure;) and mids ;)and highs;) always present but never strain my ears.
It was like someone drawing back a thick curtain from the monitors.
In other words: PERFECT. Thanks to Gudio for his ambitious work and all those who collaborated.

Well actually I moved a bit from theme. But you asked for some thoughts. After several costly detours I advise you better optimizing your fine equipment than implanting digital correction of sound. Im still saying this after some months of listening to my new cc-x-overs. I know JBL-monitors are really fine .... but now they are much finer then ever before ... ;)

peter

Wintermoon
01-02-2008, 06:26 AM
Thanks for the info Peter! I may look into the crossover you mentioned. he ones in my 4435's are probably tired anyways.

I am still happy with the DEQ. I actually took it over to my boss's and put it into his big dollar system. He was using some fancy analog EQ. By the time I left he saw a noticeable improvement in sound. I am interested in seeing how it worked out for him over the holidays.

Wintermoon
01-02-2008, 06:27 AM
Hey Wintermoon,
I picked up another locally at B&H. Guess what. Another lemon. Does the same thing as the first one as well as other crazy stuff. Can't believe it. What's the serial number on your unit?

Sorry I haven't responded yet. Been busy over the holidays... Do you still want the number?

Skywave-Rider
01-02-2008, 03:05 PM
Thanks for replying, well, it's a long story, so here's where my post on it is:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=18913
I will say here that for the money, it does a "lot." Let's hope the measurement mic is flat...
:blink:

JBL 4645
01-03-2008, 05:55 PM
Iím light-years away from buying a DEQ2496 seems like somebodyís been having fun with it.

So how come there isnít an (equalizer forum) miscellaneous are you kidding me,:D there should be and EQ forum, as there are some many brands, its tough to decided what part of my audio equipment falls into the miscellaneous category?

Happy new year.:)

JBL 4645
01-04-2008, 01:12 PM
Looks like some read my mind in advance? bop, hello was that that you. :D