Biamping Everest II

[wolfgang]

I want to drive my Everest II in biamping mode with an active corssover.
What are the settings for the XVR1 from Nelson Pass ?
Who can help me

[rs237]

Hallo Wolfgang ,

willkommen im Forum. Zu deiner Frage : Das kann man nur bei einem persönlichen Besuch bei dir feststellen.:D

Welcome to the Forum. To your question: That can only be a personal visit with you to determine.:D


regards
juergen

[Robh3606]

Heres the manual

http://www.passlabs.com/downloads/xvr1_om.pdf

Looks straight forward just match the voltage drive to one of the curve and Q families to start out. You may not get a perfect match or may need to actually measure the voltage drive from the network to confirm it's correct.

That should be enough to get you started

Rob:)

[wolfgang]

Hallo Wolfgang ,

willkommen im Forum. Zu deiner Frage : Das kann man nur bei einem persönlichen Besuch bei dir feststellen.:D

Welcome to the Forum. To your question: That can only be a personal visit with you to determine.:D


regards
juergen


Hallo Juergen

toll, wann und wo ?

ich komme aus Burgstädt bei Chemnitz

Gruss

Wolfgang

[wolfgang]

Heres the manual

http://www.passlabs.com/downloads/xvr1_om.pdf

Looks straight forward just match the voltage drive to one of the curve and Q families to start out. You may not get a perfect match or may need to actually measure the voltage drive from the network to confirm it's correct.

It's really all there.

Rob:)

thanks Rob


i have used this voltage drive

first I used following settings

high pass 12 dB 750 Hz Q = high
low pass 24 dB 590 Hz Q = middle

a measure with the soundcard of my laptop and kirchner software was near equal these curves

but the sound was sometimes not so good
than I tried

low pass 24 dB 530 hz Q = low

now it was better

it is not so easy to get the best settings, because I have no measure equipment

in the XVR1 manual there are over 1 million choices to get the right settings

regards

wolfgang

[Robh3606]

Have you tried contacting Pass Labs?? You may be able to adjust/tweek both the Q and one of the set crossover points with some part value changes. The way you are now you can't hit the exact recomended crossover frequencies with the stock choices available in the network. Also don't know if the stock filter Q's are correct.

Figure you have points at 480,530,590,750,880Hz You need 550Hz 600Hz and 770Hz

Try sending Ian an email/PM. He was building a crossover based on this and he may have contact information at Pass Labs he can share with you.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/member.php?u=10

Hell of a set-up!!!

Good Luck

Rob:)

[bigyank]

Wolfgang, welcome! :D

:useless:

Please, I would love to see them!

Yank

[Ian Mackenzie]

I would suggest you email Passlabs.

They offer very good technical support.

Make sure you have phase continuity with the amps...that can cause a lot of confusion with your crossover settings

Okay, I skimmed through the manual and look at the network schamatic.

While the overall target slopes are acoustically 24/24 db for the 1501AL and the 0476Be (Gee I wish I had pair of them from K.K) the electrical networks for the woofer appear to be a tailored 24db slope and the compression driver 12 db.

The Q of the filters is the key. What happens is when the characteristics of the woofer and the horn combine you get an overall 24 db acoustic slopes and a smooth transition in the crossover region.

So I would keep it simple to start with and set the XVR1 Low pass filter set for 24 db by using two medium Q settings in each 12 db filters @590 hz and the High pass filter set for 12 db high Q @ 750hz and see how that goes. Make sure the passive crossover bar are set correctly for biamp mode. (refer to the manual)

Then try modifying the XVR1 Low pass filter with the first 12 db slope set for 530 hz with Medium Q and the 2nd 12 db filter set for 590hz with a high Q setting and see how that goes. The higher Q setting results in higher phase shift.Try different Q settings and see how it goes

The product of the Q is the Q of each filter (x) each other. The filter Q JBL have chosen has spread crossover points and different Q settings but the overall Q is 0.595. The a standard LR filter has a Q of 0.49. The higher Q offers a tighter knee in the crossover point and a greater phase shift.

What this is all about is getting a nice smooth transition on that 700hz region with the combined horn characteristics and the high pass filter. Any adjustment in this frequency range will be quite audible and should be carefully reviewed with a known program content.

I dont know specifically what Low, Medium and High Q is in terms of a specific value of Q for the XVR1. Low Q is usualy 0.49, high Q is 1 and medium is 0.707 .

Passlabs will be able to offer more specific information on the Q settings.

To avoid confusion and going completely cross eyed with the settings have your digital camera handy and take a close up image of the settings with the lid removed of the XVR1

Follow the procedure carefully in the manual for setting up the rear bars and in the XVR1 manual. This is really important



Ian

[edgewound]

With all due respect to Wolfgang....

I've heard the Everest II and met with Greg Timbers at the CES '07.

I wouldn't see...or hear... the benefits of biamping such a phenomenal system when so much effort was put into the passive networks and drivers to make this system so pristine to begin with.

Load up on plenty of great dual mono power and then sit back and enjoy the music.

[merlin]

Having heard the Everest a good few times now in a variety of systems, my feeling is that one really needs to isolate that lower 1501al and actively drive that, leaving the rest of the speaker passive. I don't know if the jumpers make this possible.

I'm of the (probably unpopular :)) opinion that active biamping in this manner is the likely cure for the bass issues I personally have heard in each of the setups I've been lucky enough to listen to.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Edgewound,

I agree its a bit fiddly and so on but this is often the case in the quest for the ultimate.

Wolfgang is indeed fortunate to have such fine equipment.

A set of X600.5 mono blocks would be quite something.

Wolfgang, I have sent to a pm with Pass Lab contact details.

Ian

[Rolf]

wolfgang ...

Can we have some pictures of your system??

[timc]

wolfgang ...

Can we have some pictures of your system??


I second that question ;)




-Tim

[Mr. Widget]

I would suggest you email Passlabs.

They offer very good technical support.I would also contact your JBL dealer... if they are selling a system of this caliber, and making the profit from the sale, I would expect excellent support. I would have them contact Pass Labs and work out the best angle of attack.

Merlin brings up another issue... he has been disappointed with the bass of the system... so he is suggesting a possible solution for that. I have only heard the system in one location, but I thought the bass was quite good stock.

Wolfgang, how does the system sound in your home in fully passive mode? Are you going with the biamp alternative because you are disappointed with some aspect of the sound of the system or are you doing it because you have the XVR1 and want to play around with it?

Unless you have years of experience using active crossovers and or experience designing passive networks, the likelihood of making a really top notch system like the Everest II sound worse than stock is quite high. Of course there is no harm in trying as long as you take precautions not to blow up any drivers. (Read the safety notes in the Pass Labs manual!!!)


Oh, and welcome to the forum, and congratulations on your purchase!


Widget

[Robh3606]

Unless you have years of experience using active crossovers and or experience designing passive networks, the liklihood of making a really top notch system like the Everest II sound worse than stock is quite high.

He really needs to verify the final Voltage Drives are correct on the active network.

Rob:)

[Mr. Widget]

He really needs to verify the final Voltage Drives are correct on the active network. That is likely beyond his capabilities. Also, as versatile as the XVR1 is, it is not absolutely adjustable. It can be set to get close to the target curves, but it will not match them exactly... some interpolation will undoubtedly be required.


Widget

[Hoerninger]

It can be set to get close to the target curves, but it will not match them exactly...

One solution might be to scale the passive network - no real reconfiguration - and put it between two discrete OpAmps. May be this is too simple on the one hand but too difficulty on the other ... :blink:
(I would do it in this way, and I would adopt Merlin's proposal, although I did not miss anything when listening.)
____________
Peter

[Valentin]

as i recall GT said that the active system is just out of this world

of course done correctly

i think jbL and Pass should help wolfgang after that kind of purchase

if he has the amps the crossover he should definitely go for it

some picture would be nice

[Guido]

Wolfgang,

I'm very sure Nelson Pass will help you.
Interesting thread BTW.

I'll hear the Everest 2 very soon :)

[Ian Mackenzie]

My guess is Wolfgang is enjoying the system anyway.

The voltage drive of the passive network needs to be simulated and the active voltage drive overlayed to get the closest target response. Simple enough to do but quite time consuming.;)

[wolfgang]

Hello again

here are some pictures of my Everest system.

30009

30010

30011

I can agree, this system is in passive mode fantastic, but as Greg Timbers said, the activ system is better.

It seem, there is no analog activ crossover on the market, where I can adjust the original voltage drive of the Everest II.

I will contact Nelson Pass for modifkation of the XVR1.

best regards

Wolfgang

[Mr. Widget]

I will contact Nelson Pass for modifkation of the XVR1.
That is probably your best bet.

Thanks for sharing... you have a beautiful looking system, I bet it sounds pretty damned good too.:D


Widget

[Valentin]

NIce and Sweet :applaud::applaud::applaud:

hope you are succesfull in your Biamping endevor

[Guido]

Very nice setup.

Wolfgang, what electronics do you use?
If you don't mind PM me with your contact information. I'm a professional JBLer and would like to hear your setup.

[Valentin]

Basicly Nagra electronics
very very nice

[rs237]

Hallo Wolfgang,
meine erster post war zwar etwas scherzhaft gemeint , es steckt aber auch ein wenig wahrheit darin. Man kann nicht einfach ohne Hörtest Empfehlungen zu deinem Problem geben. Es gibt wohl nur sehr wenige die Erfahrungen mit der EverestII und aktiver Weiche gemacht haben. Der Lautsprecher ist kein Ohmscher Widerstand sondern eine komplexe Impedanz die auch noch von kinetischen Einflüssen geprägt ist. Wenn die passive Weiche für z.B. 800Hz übergangsfrequenz gebaut wurde muss eine aktive Weiche nicht unbedingt bei 800Hz die besten Ergebnisse bringen. Nelson Pass kann dir bestenfalls Anhaltspunkte für die Modifikation deiner Weiche geben. JBL könnte auch dazu beitragen. Am besten wäre es aber wenn du deine Weiche nach den Empfehlungen von Nelson Pass modifizierst und das dann in Mess oder Hörtests verifizierst. Da ich die Everest auch sehr gerne mal Hören würde , würde ich gerne vorbeikommen und dir dabei helfen.
mfg
juergen

here the translation from google, sorry I hope there is not too much nonsense is.

My first post was somewhat jokingly intentioned, but it's also a little truth in it. It is not easy without hearing recommendations regarding your problem. There are probably very few experiences with the EverestII and active turnout made. The loudspeaker is not an DC resistance but a complex impedance of the kinetic still influences. If the passive crossover for example, 800 Hz übergangsfrequenz built has been an active crossover is not necessarily at 800Hz the best results. Nelson Pass can you best evidence for the modification of your wedge. JBL could also help. It would be best but if your turnout by the recommendations of Nelson Pass modifizierst and then measuring or hearing tests verifizierst. As I Everest also very happy times Listen, I would like to come and help you.

regards
juergen

[edgewound]

That's a dream system and a dream home, Wolfgang.:applaud:

You have impeccable taste. Hope you get your system calibrated to your liking.:)

[timc]

Holy crap! Thats one NICE system. Would love to hear it sometime.


Good luck with your biamp setup.


-Tim

[caladois]

Very impressive.

Lucky man. Any wishes for 2008 ?
:blink:

[JBL 4645]

Welcome to the Lansing site Wolfgang

Some guys just have all the luck. “Oh you are naughty, but nice”. Those look very grand and very elegant looking, Everest II you have there, :p hope you solve the crossover issue.

Pecae.:)

:xmas:

[Rolf]

Hi, and welcome. I am curious, have you done some tests of the Everest II? Thinking about a low note frq test? The reason I ask is that according to the specs, the woofers don't go very deep. But in reality?

Thanks in advance.

[wolfgang]

Hi, and welcome. I am curious, have you done some tests of the Everest II? Thinking about a low note frq test? The reason I ask is that according to the specs, the woofers don't go very deep. But in reality?

Thanks in advance.

Hello Rolf

Bass is perfect. I do not miss low note frequencies. For cinema, I have one Revel B15. For stereo I don't need them.

best regards

Wolfgang

[Ian Mackenzie]

Hi Wolfgang,

I had some time this afternoon to simulate the XVR1 with the lowpass filters set for Lp 1 12 db slope 590 hz Q = high, Lp 2 12 db slope 530hz Q = medium, Hp 1 12 db slope 750hz Q = high.

It is important to understand that there is about a 12 difference in the gain of the low and high pass filter outputs with these settings and will require adjustment of the levels. I also simulated the iactive voltage drives as published by JBL and there were only minor difference compared to the above settings where high Q is assumed to = 1.

This is only a simulation and as the Master said "Simulating these curves will give you a good start, but only that. You will end up having to tweak it through listening."

In any case I would stick with the full passive mode until your dealer or the factory can setup your XVR1.

The top curve is the active simulation, the bottom curve is full passive mode.

Ian