Need wood-finish advice

[Jakob]

Hi all!

Just got my cabinets from the carpenter. He made a good job but somehow the colour isn't what I expected. I wanted the same walnut finish as my old L150's but these are more greyish. Is there any way I can get more of the dark brown shine of my old JBL's or is it impossible to "tune" a veneer.
The cabinets are waxed, not oiled.


I'll try to post pictures of them.


Thanks for any help,
BR: Jakob

[Jakob]

here it is, my grey walnut :banghead: :

The flash makes it look really bad. In fact the grain is beautiful and stand out more in real life, but the colour is still grey and lifeless. Could removing the wax and apply linseed oil be a step in the right direction?

[macaroonie]

This time next year they will be the colour you want . Age adds colour

[Mr. Widget]

I wanted the same walnut finish as my old L150's but these are more greyish. Is there any way I can get more of the dark brown shine of my old JBL's or is it impossible to "tune" a veneer.
It isn't difficult at all... most walnut cabinets including JBLs are typically stained a warm brown color.


The cabinets are waxed, not oiled.
Unfortunately you will have to strip all of the wax before staining is possible. This may be quite difficult. Ideally you stain veneered furniture/speakers before putting any oil or wax on it.


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[Mr. Widget]

This time next year they will be the colour you want . Age adds colourMaybe... in this case, really I hope so as stripping the wax could be quite a project.


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[Jakob]

Thank you guys for your quick replys!
It sounds comforting that staining is possible. How do I do to remove the wax and why is it difficult?
I guess, if you don't succeed in getting all the wax off, you will get spots of unstained veneer, right?

And, if I succeed, whats the process of staining.

Hrmm, with my next drawing to the carpenter I will include a note: wax belongs in your ears, not on my cabinets! :biting:

[SMKSoundPro]

I recall that Naptha will cut the wax. Wipe on liberally. Let dry for a couple of days.
If need be, sand with 320 or 400 grit paper.

When ready, apply medium or dark walnut watco oil. Follow directions on can. Be very careful when disposing of oil soaked rags.

We even use 400 grit sandpaper and handsand the oil into the pores of the walnut. Let dry for a couple of days. Vent the room very well. It will stink a bit!

After time and normal exposure, reapply light coats of oil every few months as the wood tone changes to the color you desire.

If you choose to, then try watco finishing wax and hand rub that in to a glorious finish. It reminds me of a french polishing technique.

All in all, great job on the cabinets!

SO...how do they sound?

Scotty.

[Mr. Widget]

Hrmm, with my next drawing to the carpenter I will include a note: wax belongs in your ears, not on my cabinets! :biting:Many woodworkers like to use wax, unfortunately it must be your last step... I rarely use it because I may want to re-oil or touch up the cabinet in some other way.

Yes, you are correct. If you can not get all of the wax off... including down in the grain, you will have an uneven looking stain job. There are several wax strippers available. You should talk with a professional refinisher in your area. They will know the best method using what is readily available where you are.

As for the staining, there are many types. For walnut I usually use pigmented stains that are in an oil base, but with whatever type you get, you should follow the directions that come with the stain. Don't be afraid to mix a couple of colors to achieve the look you want. Also, get some sample veneer from your cabinetmaker... preferably also waxed. You can experiment on both the wax removal and on the staining.


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[jcdahl]

Hi Jakob;
Here are a couple of SUB1500 enclosures that I built. Also a view of one of my Paragons that I re-veneered under a different color of light. They are the same color under the same light. The color is a warm redish brown. Not the typical grey tone of walnut with just oil on it. Is this the color you are looking for? If so, I can tell you how to achieve it.

Regards,
John

[Jakob]

[quote=SMKSoundPro;193980]All in all, great job on the cabinets!

SO...how do they sound?

I'm very satisfied with the woodwork. The guy who did the cabinets has his own firm since 40 years and build anything you want, but mostly furniture.

Regarding how they sound, I've decided not to load them with drivers until they are in the colour I want. For now the 250ti's are the lead singers in the livingroom, and thats not too bad!!!


jcdahl: You are more than welcome to describe how You got that colour on the cabinets, what beauties, and the Paragon looks astonishing :applaud:

Tomorrow I will call some experts in the neighbourhood to get more info on what products we have available here in old Sweden. Thank you all for showing me the right direction!

BR: Jakob

[jcdahl]

Hi Jakob;

I start out with the bare walnut veneer. I don't know how it might work if you have already a finish on the wood.

I sand with the grain using first 160 grit sandpaper, then 220 grit, then 400 grit, and last 800 grit. in that sequence. Then I use steel wool to polish the dry surface. Use a vaccum cleaner or air hose to get rid of the sand paper and steel wool residue. You can lightly rub the surface with a "tack" cloth to ensure that it is clean.

Then I apply the Watco "danish" Oil stain finish. (I don't know if the Danes will let the Swedes have their oil) Using the Dark Walnut color. Follow the directions on the container. Let it soak for about an hour and then wipe it off. Then let it dry for about one day. Then use the steel wool to again polish the finish and clean off any steel wool residue. Next apply the Cherry color Watco oil. Follow the directions on the container. Let is soak for about 4 to 6 hours, then wipe it off. Finish the job again with the steel wool. Don't put any wax on it for about a month. If you want more red color, use another coat (after resting for one month)of the cherry color stain.

You don't need to wax it until it has stabilized for about a month.

I have found that this technique makes a wonderfull warm walnut color.

Good luck!!
John

Here is another picture:

here is a link to the WATCO oil finish data
http://www.rustoleum.com/product.asp?frm_product_id=112&SBL=1

[yggdrasil]

On a pair of speakers I made a few years back I only used boiled linseed oil to achieve a great result.

Anyway you should get some of the used walnut to experiment with.

[jcdahl]

On a pair of speakers I made a few years back I only used boiled linseed oil to achieve a great result.


I think that the WATCO products are made of boiled linseed oil.
John

[Mr. Widget]

Watco is a blend of linseed oil, proprietary resin, a drying agent (Zirconium Drier), and mineral spirits. I have been using it since the '70s. I love the look, but it offers very little protection for the wood.

I Googled Watco Danish Oil, and the Watco-Dennis Corp... the originators of the product in an attempt to find the history of the product. I found a pile of lawsuits resulting from fires caused by Watco soaked rags spontaneously combusting. The packaging clearly states that you must soak all used rags in a bucket of water to avoid this... our litigious society just pisses me off. I think that these lawsuits are why Watco-Dennis had to sell the brand to Minwax and probably why they sold it to Rustoleum... it is too good a product not to offer, but it has to be sold by someone large enough to have the lawyers necessary to fend off opportunistic legal attacks. Sure when you bring in photos of your permanently disfigured children you get the court's sympathy, but you should have read the label...

...and so should all of you using the stuff... it isn't just rumors... a friend lost his high school wood shop due to watco soaked rags. I treat them very carefully and have never had a problem.

I doubt Watco Danish Oil is available in Europe, but there must be a similar product.


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[yggdrasil]

I put the rags in the fireplace after use. And sure enough after a while there was a nice little fire.... Works every time.

[lgvenable]

The easiest way to remove wax very quickly is to use trichloroethylene, which will dissolve wax like no tomorrow. pre-heat the wood, and as you wipe them heat the wood with a heat gun.

The tri will cut the wax, and after several applications can draw (wick) the wax over into the cloth. Unlike naptha, this is not very flammable.

It will dissolve and remove wax like there is no tomorrow.test on your wood to make sure there aren't any weird interactions, but I wouldn't expect it. Finish by sanding as others have detailed. I personally finish with Watco Med Walnut doe great looking speakers. Final coat is with Johnson paste wax (1 coat)

If you're into waxed speakers you can heat (heatgun) the wood and fill the grain with wax, and use 500 or 600 grit sandpaper to fully fill the grain, then polish to have highly polished speakers which are silky smooth.

Personally I like the use of med walnut Watco by itself, with occasional re-application to maintain the speaker look.

Larry

[Jakob]

Thanks all for the help.
This Friday I will go to a store that specializes in furniture maintenance and restoration. I hope they can help me with what domestic products to use.
I tried some linseed oil on the inside of one of the cabinets and that spot is very close to the finish I want.
Is the Danish oil typically the same colour as pure boiled linseed oil? I don't think we have watco's danish oil, but we do have other brands danish oils.

thanks again,

B.R: Jakob

[matsj]

Just a warning: trichloroethylene is VERY DANGERUS !!! You will get cancer from it.

Jakob: I think :rustic oil from junckers is what you are looking for.

mats

[Jakob]

Ok, I'm ready to go wax removing!
I got a liquid called Rubinol woodcleanser. It's general purpose is to remove polish, oil and wax from wooden floors. It uses some different Natrium compunds in a very mild solution. :blah:

You apply it with a sponge and after a couple of minutes you scrub the surface and then wipe everything off with water.
It sounds messy, but I tested it on the back of one of the cabinets and it worked very well. It seems there isn't so much wax on the surface from the beginning thank God!

I'll post some more photos as I continue the work.

[Mr. Widget]

Ok, I'm ready to go wax removing!

I'll post some more photos as I continue the work.Excellent.


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[Jakob]

Good news!

Guess what?
I finally (after going through 15 different paint and buildingshops and searching the internet without luck) found a place in my city who sells staining oils. Guess what brand?
Watco's of course! I tried some different colours, but I think I will go with the medium walnut for a start.

The place who sells this oil say that you shouldn't use to fine grit sandpaper before applying oil etc (they use 120 grit). They say that doing this can close the pores in some degree, reducing the amount of oil absorbed by the wood. Don't know if this is true though.

[Mr. Widget]

Watco's of course! Surprising... I guess this is just another example of just how the world is shrinking due to these mega corporations... sometimes for good and sometimes not so.



The place who sells this oil say that you shouldn't use to fine grit sandpaper before applying oil etc (they use 120 grit). They say that doing this can close the pores in some degree, reducing the amount of oil absorbed by the wood. Don't know if this is true though.That's true. If your sanding leaves a swirl pattern the stain will likely amplify the sanding marks. You should always do some tests when using a new product.


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