Clones

[Zene]

Does anyone have a list of available alternatives for the older JBL/Altec speakers, 12" - 15" especially. My P.audio P150 is listed as a clone for the JBL 2226 and thought it would be good to have a list of others. Some speakers are hard/impossible to get or too expensive. Especially interested in speaker that has good specs for most 15" back loaded horns. Mine is the JBL Model 34 which originally used the D130.
I will get D130s when I can for myself, but need something in meantime and may make others for friends using the clones.

Zene

[BMWCCA]

Probably more common to find the C34 with the 130A (no "D" on purpose). I find your Freudian "clown" to be a more accurate description of what you're looking for than what you intended! :applaud:

[Earl K]

- Wrong Forum don't you think ?
- Do you really think that we regulars ought to find a way to help you ( & like minded ?? ) put JBL out of business ?

- I'm not going to bother pointing out all the differences in the Ts parameters between a bona fide 2226H & the PAudio "Clown" .
- You need to learn for yourself how to read these specs.

- A real 2226H costs all of $55.00 more at Part Express vs the mentioned Clown speaker, over at USA Speakers .

[Zene]

Thanks BMWCCA


- Wrong Forum don't you think ?
- Do you really think that we regulars ought to find a way to help you ( & like minded ?? ) put JBL out of business ?

I said nothing about putting JBL out. I buy plenty of current models for the PA, hi-fi and HT work I do for friends, but need DUPES of the older alnico and ceramics as close as possible for some less expensive systems. You DO know some are hard to find. Not everyone can afford vintage JBL's and sometimes I need them quickly.

- I'm not going to bother pointing out all the differences in the Ts parameters between a bona fide 2226H & the PAudio "Clown".

JBL 2226 couldn't produce bass in a back loaded bin with a stiff wind pushing it. They are for porting and that's exactly where my P.audio P150's are going.

-You need to learn for yourself how to read these specs.
What do specs have to do how they will sound?

- A real 2226H costs all of $55.00 more at Part Express vs the mentioned Clown speaker, over at USA Speakers .

I pay $230 less a pair for the P.audios. That's a bunch.
No way did I say they were better, just close enough (the name clones) to get fair results. Not everyone in hi-fi uses JBL.
Zene

[JBL 4645]

Thanks BMWCCA



I pay $230 less a pair for the P.audios. That's a bunch.
No way did I say they were better, just close enough (the name clones) to get fair results. Not everyone in hi-fi uses JBL.
Zene

Well that may be true but JBL is the best of the best of the best.:p

Zene Welcome aboard the Lansing Heritage site.:)

[Zene]

Did anyone read what I asked?
So JBL is one of the best, so what?
Nothing to do with my problem.
I'm not here for a biased lecture.
Just thought if anyone could help it would be you guys.
Guess I was wrong.
Says a lot for this forum.
Zene

[JBL 4645]

Did anyone read what I asked?
So JBL is one of the best, so what?
Nothing to do with my problem.
I'm not here for a biased lecture.
Just thought if anyone could help it would be you guys.
Guess I was wrong.
Says a lot for this forum.
Zene

Zene

Whoa, whoa, whoa hold on there don’t take it personally for heavens sakes. Stick around I’m sure some of the JBL veterans well get around to replying in the morning.

Peace be cool, :cool: its Christmas I guess a few of them may be wrapping presents up.
:xmas:

[Zilch]

What do specs have to do how they will sound?

:blink:

[JBL 4645]

Zene

A lot I’m still learning the (hard way) about all this. Sensitivity, power handling, frequency response, and maximum sound pressure level that the speaker will be able to produce within its technical tolerance levels.

Cabinet loudspeaker enclosure is part that I’m not clued up on. But there are a lot of guys here far brilliant than I, just use a calmer approach because I’m sure there willing to share and help you out.

:xmas:

[Maron Horonzakz]

NAAAAAHHHHH !!!! let him lick his bloody scabs elswhere:biting:

[Robh3606]

Do you think you could cut the guy a little bit of slack. All he did was ask. We know they are not the exact equivalents but lower cost driver that can be used for the same purpose.

I doubt they will perform as well but without trying them I have no frame of reference. You need to get a free box program like WinIsd and see what the do there and and then have a listen to them with the JBL's. Do an A vs. B and then make up your own mind if they are indeed close enough to be called clones of if they will suit your needs.

Rob:)

[boputnam]

I find your ... "clown" to be an accurate description of what you're looking...Yea, and I think it quite intentional - he'd love a JBL but believes them too costly...?

Start by telling us the application? You mention both 12" and 15". Is this home audio, SR, or what? Are you building your own cabinets, or swapping P-Audio baskets into an existing hole in the C34?

If merely re-fitting the C34, have you done sufficient research into which JBL will provide a good replacement for that C34 cabinet and know that it is priced out of reach? It would be a pity to shoot too low and end-up disappointed.

[Tom Brennan]

Zene----I don't know the specs but the neo magnet B&C woofers I heard in a couple of DIY hi-fi setups sound very good, especially in the upper bass and midrange and IMO would make reasonable substitutes for JBL or Altec woofers.

I suppose one would have to compare specs to find a "plug in" substitute but IMO the B&Cs warrant investigation.

And as you may know many people hold Eminence and Dayton drivers in high regard.

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&WebPage_ID=3&manufacturer=327&sm=1&so=1

[speakerdave]

I know what HIS frame of reference is, and that is he doesn't care about anything but getting in cheap, and since he's asking us to steer him towards ripoffs of JBL engineering, this leaning over backwards to accomodate him in this forum as absolutely ridiculous.

David

[Mr. Widget]

I know what HIS frame of reference is, and that is he doesn't care about anything but getting in cheap, and this leaning over backwards to accomodate him in this forum as absolutely ridiculous.

DavidNah, it's the season for warm wishes etc.:D
If he can't afford a good system or isn't willing to spring for one, why not look into an affordable alternative.

These days I have multi-thousand dollar drivers and big ass horns etc., but years ago before I could afford them I listened to JBLs.:rotfl:


Widget

[speakerdave]

I'm not saying it's not OK to buy less expensive. He didn't ask about less expensive alternatives. He asked specifically for inside information about ripoffs of JBL engineering. What's more, when someone tried to gently clue him in he persisted, with sarcasm. I think he's got a lot of ... nerve and needs to be told that.

David

[Tom Brennan]

I think he's got a lot of ... nerve and needs to be told that.

David


He also needs to be told he can save money by repairing JBL drivers with Radian diaphragms and that they sound better to boot.

[speakerdave]

Better or worse, less or more expensive--neither is the issue. It's stealing someone else's work that he was asking us to sanction and facilitate.

David

[mikebake]

He also needs to be told he can save money by repairing JBL drivers with Radian diaphragms and that they sound better to boot.

Now that was funny.

Send in the clones................

[JBL 4645]

Do you think you could cut the guy a little bit of slack. All he did was ask. We know they are not the exact equivalents but lower cost driver that can be used for the same purpose.

I doubt they will perform as well but without trying them I have no frame of reference. You need to get a free box program like WinIsd and see what the do there and and then have a listen to them with the JBL's. Do an A vs. B and then make up your own mind if they are indeed close enough to be called clones of if they will suit your needs.

Rob:)

Rob

Lower cost drivers you say. Hmm, how about, instead of using Google, main page for searching for the lowest and best product deals in the land.

Use (Google, product) I’ve used it a few times now and I my only regret is that I didn’t use it before I brought that DCX2496, because the prices that I have seen where far lower and it was far easier and faster in looking products up.

Type in the name of the product and then you’ll see the product the price and the various suppliers, I guess Zene has been looking at some rotten places that are (overcharging) for the real McCoy, that is JBL. :)

[Tom Brennan]

Now that was funny.

Send in the clones................

Hi Mike. Sent you a PM

[Mr. Widget]

He also needs to be told he can save money by repairing JBL drivers with Radian diaphragms and that they sound better to boot.:rotfl:

You and a few other folks who have been deafened by listening to Altecs may think so...:D

Seriously, Dave makes a good point. Unless info has been posted in the public domain for anyone to use as they see fit, it is stealing to take someone's designs or other intellectual property without their permission. For private use, companies will sometimes look the other way, but still we need to acknowledge the rights of the owners of this intellectual property and not be all that cavalier in our use of it.

And Tom, you are right. It is possible to repair some JBL compression drivers with Radian parts, but the notion of their superiority is purely subjective. I personally like smooth sounding drivers but I am not an advocate of using the low cost Radians. They are not terribly consistent and they can sound dull and lifeless compared to the originals. But heck, you like the sound of Altec Model 19s... ;)


Widget

[JBL 4645]

I'm not saying it's not OK to buy less expensive. He didn't ask about less expensive alternatives. He asked specifically for inside information about ripoffs of JBL engineering. What's more, when someone tried to gently clue him in he persisted, with sarcasm. I think he's got a lot of ... nerve and needs to be told that.

David

speakerdave

Whoa, can you say that world here? He’s got a lot of bottle to say that around here…I mean there are some places that I might say that word, but I have reframed from using that word on the site since I’ve been here.

Mate you’ve got a lot of bottle to say that word, a lot of bottle.:D

[Tom Brennan]

Widget----I was cracking wise, not trying to derail this to the old Radian controversy, though that was fun.

Now when it comes to your preferences vs. mine I'll go with mine every time. ;)

[speakerdave]

speakerdave

Whoa, can you say that world here? He’s got a lot of bottle to say that around here…I mean there are some places that I might say that word, but I have reframed from using that word on the site since I’ve been here.

Mate you’ve got a lot of bottle to say that word, a lot of bottle.:D


Well, you Brits have always been better with the language, for the most part.

[JBL 4645]

Now that was funny.

Send in the clones................

Nah mate it was the classic song from the 1970’s that I remember.:D

Isn't it rich?
Are we a pair?
Me here at last on the ground,
You in mid-air.
Send in the clones.

Isn't it bliss?
Don't you approve?
One who keeps tearing around,
One who can't move.
Where are the clones?
Send in the clones.

Just when I'd stopped opening doors,
Finally knowing the one that I wanted was yours,
Making my entrance again with my usual flair,
Sure of my lines,
No one is there.

Don't you love farce?
My fault I fear.
I thought that you'd want what I want.
Sorry, my dear.
But where are the clones?
Quick, send in the clones.
Don't bother, they're here.

Isn't it rich?
Isn't it queer,
Losing my timing this late
In my career?
And where are the clones?
There ought to be clones.
Well, maybe next year.

[Mr. Widget]

Widget----I was cracking wise, not trying to derail this to the old Radian controversy, though that was fun.
I kinda wondered... but then decided others may be confused and...



Now when it comes to your preferences vs. mine I'll go with mine every time. ;)Agreed!

Could you come by and help me out.:bouncy:


Widget

[JBL 4645]

Sorry, mate no pun intended but start of this thread was so funny Clowns then Clones. :D

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee15/Evolution3417/StarWarsJBLclonejoke.jpg

I tell you what you brought a little comic relief my way today because the last few days where grim, to say the least, thanks for the giggle.:D

[Tom Brennan]

Your schwartz is as big as mine.

[JBL 4645]

Your shwartz is as big as mine.

:rotfl:Spaceballs LOL nice one.

I love the breath of fresh, JBL air in the morning.:D

[JBL 4645]

I think you all mispelled the name, much as they typed clown and mean clone ...




It's not zene, its Zune ...


Eat the young, eh??

I think you mean Zeus, Father of Apollo, Zeus! :D

http://filmfanatic.org/reviews/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/Olivier.jpg

I’d be lucky to survive the evening if I don’t die laughing reading this thread. :rotfl:

[boputnam]

This thread has gotten totally whacked.


He asked specifically for inside information about ripoffs of JBL engineering. "..inside information about ripoffs..."...? Did I say "what"...? I sure don't see that in the OP. His syntax suggests he is not very knowledgeable about these things and is seeking "swappable" drivers. That is allowed for the uninformed.


What's more, when someone tried to gently clue him in he persisted, with sarcasm. I think he's got a lot of ... nerve and needs to be told that.Your opinion is noted, and he has now been told that.

My view of these types is, their using P-Audio, or other, drivers lessens dead-end demand for good 'ol JBL drivers. I'll gladly steer them on the lousier road if that is their preference...

:)

[Zene]

I won't thank each individually that had something helpful, you know who you are. Appreciate suggestions. Special thanks to Rolf for PM. Forum rating for helpfulness is <20%.
Moderator: Does this thread give you an idea of the type of elitist attitude this forum promotes? I am truly sorry for you.
I do want to apologize for not being able to always afford JBL.
I even have Altec horns mixed in with JBL drivers. Woooooooooo! Sorry I can't use the word Altec here.
So everyone's system here has 100% JBL or nothing? Didn't understand the entry rules and financial qualifications for this forum. Maybe a DIY forum is more suitable for us commoners.

This thread could not redeem itself no matter how many good intentions were added; example: "Gee, I understand your predicament and I know it's damn hard to find anything even close but we are here to help if we can. Do your best to get JBL's as I feel they truly are better".

Zene
Spell my ... name correctly out of respect and courtesy given any name.

[mikebake]

Zene
Spell my ... name correctly out of respect and courtesy given any name.
Stop, yer killin' me..................

Poster rating for quality of first few postings <10%

[boputnam]

...I do want to apologize for not being able to always afford JBL...No need. Many are in the same boat.

As I said, many have no issue with suggesting swaps - and I added the joke about it freeing supply for the diehards. :D I guess THAT didn't sit with you either? Sorry.

You never answered questions - are you refitting the C34's...? If so, you really should model the interior dimensions of that cabinet and determine the characteristics of that box. And, or, if you can find the Thiele-Small parameters for the 130A (I did not check if they were available), you might try and match close-as-possible to a different driver - only that will approach the original sound.

But it's really not clear from your OP what exactly you are trying to do.

Actually the forum is incredibly helpful. This start is not representative.

[boputnam]

Spell my ... name correctly out of respect and courtesy given any name.Oh yea - one last thing.

Real names are not required here. We have no way of knowing when a name is real. Poking fun at a perceived moniker happens frequently on the Internet. :)

[boputnam]

Gentle readers...

I'm taking one last ping at this thing.

Zene pm'd me and in our exchange gave a better explanation of what he was hoping to find. I think this is worth reviving - we can do better than we done, now knowing better what his needs are (whew! :) ).

---------------------------------------------------------------------
In a pm Zene wrote:

... The JBL Model 34's were cabs I built/modified from scratch and ASSuming that D130's would not be hard to find or the alternative would be some other speaker. (ed: The D130's have proven hard to find...).

There are hundreds of back loaded horns very similar to the JBL's with all kinds of 15" speakers. Almost all of them should work well and that's all I was asking for. Hell, it could have been another JBL new or used. If you think about it a different JBL could actually be considered a clone of the D130 having had good results in other cabinets.

Budget was never the issue. Just plain $ spent for a particular speaker was.

Zene

------------------------------------------------------

Also, I should add from a separate pm, Zene had bought the P-150 thinking it would suffice, and the results were not satisfactory. I will let him post his appraisal, should he wish. :barf: comes to mind... ;)

Even if he chooses not to post, maybe he can read the suggestions you guys have to help him out.

[Zilch]

http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/plans/C34.htm

A variety of loads were available for C34 aka, earlier, Model 34:

http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/catalogs/1962/page16-17.jpg

130A is a low frequency transducer, appropriately mated with compression driver mid/high plus UHF driver, if desired and/or required.

D130 is an extended range transducer, typically used with ring radiator VHF at a higher crossover frequency.

I'm not a bass horn guy, so I can't suggest which contemporary drivers would be appropriate, either JBL or other, but the complex of T/S parameters for low-frequency drivers appropriate to the use is well known. Keele, I think it was, worked out the numbers, and there's an AES paper on the subject, which may be available on his website.

D130 was cloned by many manufacturers, but I don't think it would be my preferred woofer in C34s, nor would I be using 075/2402 or LE175DLH for the HF. Others here may have actual experience with alternative loads.

Independent of the drivers used, I don't believe there's any way to get big, extended bass out of moderate-sized horns such as these....

[speakerdave]

JBL had its own clones. The 2135 is a clone of the D130 and ALWAYS sells more cheaply on ebay. The 2220(A,B,H,J) are clones of the 130A (etc) and ALWAYS sell more cheaply on ebay. These speakers are exactly the same functionally, except, I think, they can take more power because they are made with the high temp glues; the 4-digit numbers were devised when JBL split its business into consumer and pro divisions.

That part about the imitation not working out is another reason for not buying the ripoffs. They're not as good, maybe nowhere near as good. Waste of money.

David

[ChopsMX5]

You know, it's true. Money is a major player for a lot of people who want a somewhat decent sounding system. Sure, I'd love to have true JBL or Altec (or GPA) 15" drivers in my OB's, but they are simply too expensive for me at the moment. I'd also love to have a Velodyne SMS-1 and dbx Driverack PA or 260, but again, it's simply out of my price range.

But you know what, I make do with what I can afford. And to be perfectly honest with you, my current system sounds pretty damn good and definately better than anything I've ever bought and owned before.

It all may be a hodge-podge of components and it may look like a mess, but is sounds a heck of a lot better than it looks and it's sum of parts and I'd be willing to put it up against systems costing tens of thousands more dollars. I've heard those super expensive systems. Heck, I've even designed and installed the stuff professionally for a while, so I know quite well what I'm comparing my system to.

So in short, all I'm saying is cut the new guy some slack. Trust me, him, me or anyone else in the DIY world looking for a suitable "clone" of a JBL or Altec driver is NOT going to put these major companies out of business.

* IT'S ALL ABOUT COMPROMISE *

:)

[mikebake]

You either do it right, or you don't. Make do and make excuses, or not. Nothing wrong if you don't prioritize and invest in it. Just don't pretend it's the same.
Just my opinion.
I just get bugged by the cheap-ass mentality, 'cause usually people could , if they wanted.
Mediocrity is way overrated.................

[boputnam]

Mediocrity is way overrated.................Yea, the OP knows that, and was, as I say, bummed with the performance of the P-150. He didn't pick it 'cause it was cheaper - he has the means - but he had the impression it was a suitable swap. It was not. :(

He's looking for, largely, JBL alternatives to the 130, which has proved hard to find. I think Dave got it - the 2135 is a great choice. :)

[ChopsMX5]

You either do it right, or you don't. Make do and make excuses, or not. Nothing wrong if you don't prioritize and invest in it. Just don't pretend it's the same.
Just my opinion.
I just get bugged by the cheap-ass mentality, 'cause usually people could , if they wanted.
Mediocrity is way overrated.................


Oh yes Master... I'll get right on that. "Make excuses"?? Riiiiggghhhttt. :blah:

"Mediocrity is way overrated..." Somebody has themself on a high horse. :smsex:

And I "just get bugged" by the rich-ass mentality, get the best or don't get anything... Not all of use have jobs raking in $100k+ a year, just in case you didn't know.

Do you honestly think that I'm just going to sit here with my thumb up my backside and not have a stereo system because I can't afford the "best" equipment?! Screw that noise! I'm not here to impress anyone, and I'm certainly not going to not have a stereo system just because some uber-rich snob thinks I should only use the "best" equipment money can buy or not have anything at all. If that's the case, you better get rid of your equipment as well as I'm 100% sure your system isn't the "best" either.

I hate to break it to you, but the "best" is ONLY what YOU think is the best. It doesn't mean that it really is the best. The sooner you realise that, the better off you'll be... hopefully.

[Mr. Widget]

And I "just get bugged" by the rich-ass mentality, get the best or don't get anything... Then there is the "Home Theater in a Box" for all those bargain hunters looking for five times as much shit instead of a pair of something vintage and decent...:blah:


Widget

[edgewound]

The cheap, better alternative to the D130 is the E130....only better.

...And it's a JBL....no less:D:applaud:

[Zene]

To all ... Wasn't going to stick around but Bo (thanks) convinced me that there are great people here, and I surely need the expertise and probably more in the future as I try to get this Albatross flying. It's gonna be a biggy. The model 34/C34 is only the UB.

Thanks David, I will definitely look at the 2220 and 2135.

Apologizes to anyone I rubbed the wrong way. Never to any elitist in any walk of life.

Getting back to work if you care to respond, if not, I understand.

Next step ... below the C34 (UB), good to only 50hz at a guess I will need to cover a full octave lower. Only option I can see is ported subs. Back to the same old problem, two JBL 15's or 18's per side amounts to big bucks.

I'm not going to read all the previous posts so if something needs to be answered please re-ask.

Zene

[Mr. Widget]

Next step ... below the C34 (UB), good to only 50hz at a guess I will need to cover a full octave lower. Only option I can see is ported subs. Back to the same old problem, two JBL 15's or 18's per side amounts to big bucks.
What exactly are your design goals? How large is your room, how low do you feel you need to get, how loudly will the system be played, will the system play mostly music or movie soundtracks etc., etc.?

Your needs and expectations will dictate what your best choices are... with all of the earlier noise, I have forgotten if you have a particular amp or set of amps you intend to use, but your choice of electronics also plays into the design mix.

If you flush out the details, reiterating those that some of us may have missed, I imagine we can help you with a wide range of design choices at several price points.

In general, as Dave has pointed out, JBLs with pro model numbers typically fetch far less on the used market... as do ferrites as Edgewound mentioned. These are but some avenues to try. Depending on your needs there may be drivers from other manufactures that also may fit the bill... typically JBL and Altecs are among the better drivers, but there are many other extremely well made drivers and some may be better bargains. All that said, without a solid design in mind to satisfy a specific goal, you can waste tons of money mixing and matching.


Widget

[Zene]

Widget ...


What exactly are your design goals? How large is your room, how low do you feel you need to get, how loudly will the system be played, will the system play mostly music or movie soundtracks etc., etc.?


My only goal is to have a system that will play any music (no videos) at lifelike levels very cleanly. Room approx 12' x 40' with open adjacent living area 16' x 22', hallway, around 7000 cu ft. Open areas are to the rear of seated position.
Bass response to at least 30hz. The speakers above the C34 will be large size waveguides and horns.
All will be quad or quint amped with conventional SS amps, nothing fancy (DH Haflers so far).
Zene

[mikebake]

Oh yes Master... I'll get right on that. "Make excuses"?? Riiiiggghhhttt. :blah:

"Mediocrity is way overrated..." Somebody has themself on a high horse. :smsex:

And I "just get bugged" by the rich-ass mentality, get the best or don't get anything... Not all of use have jobs raking in $100k+ a year, just in case you didn't know.

Do you honestly think that I'm just going to sit here with my thumb up my backside and not have a stereo system because I can't afford the "best" equipment?! Screw that noise! I'm not here to impress anyone, and I'm certainly not going to not have a stereo system just because some uber-rich snob thinks I should only use the "best" equipment money can buy or not have anything at all. If that's the case, you better get rid of your equipment as well as I'm 100% sure your system isn't the "best" either.

I hate to break it to you, but the "best" is ONLY what YOU think is the best. It doesn't mean that it really is the best. The sooner you realise that, the better off you'll be... hopefully.
That wasn't the point that I made, but you knew that. It was a statement of fact, and apparently you saw fit to be perturbed by it. Whatever, it still holds true.
BTW, where does one get one of those 100K+ jobs? I could use one of those.

I love the smell of napalm in the morning.

[00Robin]

Mike Bake,
The 100 plusK jobs are in Wyoming. Go there and you'll be hired on the spot if you can pass the drug test given on the spot. You will have housing paid,per diem,insurance,yes FULL COVERAGE for everything and retirement and you better LOVE to work because they work 40-80 hours a week,overtime,doubletime and Wyoming is the last greatest place on earth,it really truly is. 550,000 people and they even have really good JBL's and Altec's there too.
Just go to Pauling and Harnischfaeger Mine-Pro Services in Gillette,Wyoming
Pittsburg and Midway in Wright,Wyoming
Thunder Basin Coal,Gillette,Wyoming
Decker Mining on the boarder of Montana and Wyoming in Decker,Montana and about a dozen other places. None of the mining is underground, it's right on top. Two new mines are being built and will be running by 2010....this is BIG money that never ends.
Electricians,engineers,plumbers,large equipment operators and the like are great,but so are the laborers and $25 plus dollars an hour PLUS daily per diem,no state tax,no sales tax in Montana and real people really are great. Thats what laborers start at.
No lies,THAT is where it's at and will be for the next 50 plus years. Oh,and the property taxes are zero if you are a vet,a vet's wife,or in service,and if you are not a vet they are SOOO cheap,you'll wonder what made the midwest so enticing.(about $600 for a 200,000 home) The school's are great,it is a dream come true gas is cheaper,eat real grass fed Angus beef for half the price...how much more should I say? Those two states are SOOO rich,they give back taxes to the people,yes,they GIVE IT BACK. Montana has a trillion dollars they are returning this year....Go west young man and never look back. You'll be glad you did. And take your speakers because you'll have the room to really hear them.

[ChopsMX5]

Then there is the "Home Theater in a Box" for all those bargain hunters looking for five times as much shit instead of a pair of something vintage and decent...:blah:


Widget

Uh huh... Sure. Not all vintage stuff is decent. And I am certainly not a bargain hunter. I don't make a shit-load of money, hence I can't spend a shit-load of money. But you wouldn't understand something like that.

[hjames]

Mike Bake,
The 100 plusK jobs are in Wyoming. Go there and you'll be hired on the spot if you can pass the drug test given on the spot. You will have housing paid,per diem,insurance,yes FULL COVERAGE for everything and retirement and you better LOVE to work because they work 40-80 hours a week,overtime,doubletime and Wyoming is the last greatest place on earth,it really truly is. 550,000 people and they even have really good JBL's and Altec's there too.
Just go to Pauling and Harnischfaeger Mine-Pro Services in Gillette,Wyoming
Pittsburg and Midway in Wright,Wyoming
Thunder Basin Coal,Gillette,Wyoming
Decker Mining on the boarder of Montana and Wyoming in Decker,Montana and about a dozen other places. None of the mining is underground, it's right on top. Two new mines are being built and will be running by 2010....this is BIG money that never ends.
Electricians,engineers,plumbers,large equipment operators and the like are great,but so are the laborers and $25 plus dollars an hour PLUS daily per diem,no state tax,no sales tax in Montana and real people really are great. Thats what laborers start at.
No lies,THAT is where it's at and will be for the next 50 plus years. Oh,and the property taxes are zero if you are a vet,a vet's wife,or in service,and if you are not a vet they are SOOO cheap,you'll wonder what made the midwest so enticing.(about $600 for a 200,000 home) The school's are great,it is a dream come true gas is cheaper,eat real grass fed Angus beef for half the price...how much more should I say? Those two states are SOOO rich,they give back taxes to the people,yes,they GIVE IT BACK. Montana has a trillion dollars they are returning this year....Go west young man and never look back. You'll be glad you did. And take your speakers because you'll have the room to really hear them.

All that joy and you are in Detroit, Wyoming??;)

[ChopsMX5]

That wasn't the point that I made, but you knew that. It was a statement of fact, and apparently you saw fit to be perturbed by it. Whatever, it still holds true.
BTW, where does one get one of those 100K+ jobs? I could use one of those.

I love the smell of napalm in the morning.

No, that WAS the point you were making, and no, it DOESN'T hold true. :bs:

[BMWCCA]

Doesn't everyone want the best that money can buy? We all have different piles of money but we still want the biggest bang for our bucks, right? I'm confused as to how this has degenerated into a class struggle, but the lack of decorum displayed by those making disparaging comments based on class and income have soured me enough I may have to reconsider my Marxist leanings. :screwy:

[Robh3606]

Back on topic


Only option I can see is ported subs. Back to the same old problem, two JBL 15's or 18's per side amounts to big bucks.


Well there are a couple of things you can do. One is just use a single 18 like a 2245/2242. Another is get 2225 cores and have them reconed to 2235's. There simply is no way around it unless you take your time and get lucky on E-Bay. Cores and recones on the 2235's could cost you about $450 all up. Single 18's you might be able to do for a bit less. One thing that is good about using cores is when you are finished you have brand new drivers.

The system you are planning is ambitious. Be careful where you cut corners. Think it out and take your time. We all live on a budget. It took me about 2 1/2 years to put together my main quad amped system. It was worth the wait to get it all together.

Rob:)

[Mr. Widget]

Widget ...




My only goal is to have a system that will play any music (no videos) at lifelike levels very cleanly. Room approx 12' x 40' with open adjacent living area 16' x 22', hallway, around 7000 cu ft. Open areas are to the rear of seated position.
Bass response to at least 30hzThat sounds like it's possible to do within a reasonable budget.



The speakers above the C34 will be large size waveguides and horns.
All will be quad or quint amped with...This is the part that confuses me... you seem to have already decided that you know what you need, but you still want advice?

I'd suggest starting over with the hard facts... your room and goal as described above and any electronics that you currently own and a blank piece of paper.


Widget

[Mr. Widget]

Uh huh... Sure. Not all vintage stuff is decent.Agreed!

In my opinion about 90% is crap... however, there are real bargains out there.


I don't make a shit-load of money, hence I can't spend a shit-load of money. But you wouldn't understand something like that.You'd be surprised. :)

However, I try not to waste what little I have on cheap junk that can't be repaired and will end in the landfill next year.


Widget

[Zene]

Thanks guys. Suggestions appreciated. Back to drawing board it is.
Zene