DAC

[richluvsound]

Guys

Is it true that the DAC is more important than the transport ? ie . Buy a top draw DAC and buy a top draw transport later ?.

TIA, Rich

[merlin]

You are better off buying one of those old fashioned things called a CD player IME.

[Andyoz]

Rich, I fear you're turning into an audiophile. Stop, it isn't worth it...:)

[richluvsound]

I guess I just got told :o: I need a CD with one optical input 4 zee itunes man ! The Quad sounds crap, its like washing ya nads in bleach.:banghead:

[JBLOG]

Guys

Is it true that the DAC is more important than the transport ?
TIA, Rich

Both are important.....It's the ol' weak link in the chain....

IMHO, with the convergence of multimedia, dsp, PC-audio..et al. DACs are a moving target. With rapid product cycle iterations and their high cost, it doesn't make sense to jump into the separate DAC transport arena until they mature (unless you have money to burn).
However, there are great CD players available with 'mature' transports and digital output options. Look into a CD player with great transport and buy the DAC later when the market settles down. Who knows...maybe down the road you will want a DAC/digital crossover(DEQX) instead of a stand alone DAC component.

Have a listen to the Rega Saturn, I highly recommend it.

[Andyoz]

I guess I just got told :o: I need a CD with one optical input 4 zee itunes man !

Cool, I thought we were losing you to the Audiofool side there...I had visions of you cryogenically treating your cables next :p

[Ian Mackenzie]

Rich,

Can I make a suggestion.

As you already use your mac for I tunes, buya nice USB Dac and set it up witn good ripping software and drivers.

There was good article on 6moons about it recently. There is no compromise in quality if you keep the cable from the mac to the USB DAC short. Buy buy a good dac with a crystal lock to low jitter.

I think its getting to the stage where music servers are going to be the way.

There are plenty of Universal players that do SACD and DVD audio but how do you store and player 400 cd's?? its easy with a Mac .

Then get your TT turbo'd for the real deal.

Ian

[timc]

IMO a good DAC can do wonders. I owned a dCS Delius for a while, and it was awesome. Very detailed, total controll, but still musicall and easy to listen to. They go on Audiogon for about $3k. They are well worth it.

As for transports. I once compared a Sony SCD-777ES and the mighty McIntosh MCD-1000. Hooked up to the McIntosh MDA-1000 i thought the difference was quite big, in the Mc's favor.



-Tim

[merlin]

Rich,

do be aware that the USB interface is limited to 16bit Red Book quality signals and should you want something better in the future you would need a different DAC.

The DEQX would be a good idea though. DAC, digital preamp, and crossover in one box, and as good as most Dacs I've heard. Hell you could even EQ them there fog horns you've got.

[richluvsound]

Merlin,

I think I know where there is one . ;) Would'nt I need a PC to run it ?

It Would make sense with all these speakers I'm building. Infact , It would certainly help with that 4 way idea we spoke about.

Rich

[hjames]

Merlin,

I think I know where there is one . ;) Would'nt I need a PC to run it ?

It Would make sense with all these speakers I'm building. In fact , It would certainly help with that 4 way idea we spoke about.

Rich

Ho there - I run Virtual PC 6 under Leopard on my old Powermac G4 (dualie!)
and I do have a Stealth Serial Port installed
http://geethree.com/stealth/index.html ... but I'll admit I have yet to try talking to any hardware through it using PeeSea software

[John W]

I'm using a Rane RPM26z as a DAC/crossover/equalizer, it's working great. The connection to the PC is via Ethernet. Supposedly the operating software runs using Virtual PC on a Mac.

Here is a link to an informative document about Analog to Digital conversion on Rane's site which may give you some insight into your transport/dac question too.

http://www.rane.com/note137.html

[richluvsound]

Ho there - I run Virtual PC 6 under Leopard on my old Powermac G4 (dualie!)
and I do have a Stealth Serial Port installed
http://geethree.com/stealth/index.html ... but I'll admit I have yet to try talking to any hardware through it using PeeSea software

Thanks Heather,

I was thinking about doing the Leopard thing . I have a new MacBook ( intel) and an older iMac. Its only £ 120 to upgrade both. Thats way cheaper than buying a UGLY Pissie :D.

I will have to pick those brains of yours after Xmas when I get round to the up grade.

Thanks again.
Rich

[Ian Mackenzie]

Rich,


do be aware that the USB interface is limited to 16bit Red Book quality signals and should you want something better in the future you would need a different DAC.

The DEQX would be a good idea though. DAC, digital preamp, and crossover in one box, and as good as most Dacs I've heard. Hell you could even EQ them there fog horns you've got.

Merlin,

What I meant was get a DAC that has USB capability, if not you can buy USB adapters .....most DACs have these digital inputs and can accept 96/24 or higher:



- XLR cable to the AES connector.
- Toslink light pipe to OPTICAL
- Coaxial cable to the SPDIF connector.



Merlin,


I think I know where there is one . ;) Would'nt I need a PC to run it ?

It Would make sense with all these speakers I'm building. Infact , It would certainly help with that 4 way idea we spoke about.

Rich

.


Rich,


I think DEQX makes sense if you want to develop some of you own ideas and have some flexibility. There are two points to weigh up though. It won't necessarily give you the classic British Hifi diddly Dee nirvana thing and you will need some flight simulator training A) to make it work B) to get a proper workable result. (see Mr Widgets posts in many other threads).


If you can pipe your favourite tunes from your Mac into the DEQX you are made.

[merlin]

Hi Ian,

I've found the M Audio Firewire unit to interface well with the earlier PowerBooks, the optical output of the later MacBooks doesn't seem quite so robust.

If using an Apple, I find that sadly music seems to sound so much better being stored as WAV files played back without the "help" of iTunes. A pain as iTunes is so convenient. I've yet to hear a HD based setup that sounds to me anything like as good as a really decent CD player, but I'm sure they exist.

[richluvsound]

Hey Doc,

I owe you an email , I'm crap ..... I have to get this speaker ready for Germany . To top it off Anne Christine has had a death in the family so things round here are a bit all over .

Addict dropped a diy Passive pre over ( nu vista no worka ) Anyway 2 black knobs on a little black box and sounds F------ amazing on wav, but CD sounds like I put the 45's in a bloody cupboard and closed the door.

maybe I am getting ahead of myself with DEQX . I cant even build a 2 way xover. Speaking of which :applaud:

I'll send a email a pics of the new project this weekend PROMISE.

PS. Say Hi to Kylie for me

Pommie Git X

[Ian Mackenzie]

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/musicloverdigital/digital.html

GIT,

I have a read of this link..quite interesting.

I am not suggesting it is the be all and end all but I have to say the convenience out weighs the HiFi diddly dee aspect.

Ian

[Ian Mackenzie]

Here is the link to the Opus DAC kit I am considering.

It uses the latest 2 x European balanced delta sigma convertors as it used by Acram and some other hiend british players..Only $250 for the kit. For 500 hours of tunes on the HD its a steal. Reports on digital out from a transport are VG

Wolfson WM8740 (http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/uploads/documents/en/WM8740.pdf)


http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/opus/opus.aspx

http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/news.aspx

[johnaec]

I'm using a Rane RPM26z as a DAC/crossover/equalizer, it's working great. The connection to the PC is via Ethernet.I recently picked up the earlier version, RPM26v, that only connects to a PC via RS232, not Ethernet. I've hooked it up to the PC and everything appears to function, but I still have to hook it up to components.

I've also got a PC controlled Rane RPE228d digital 1/3 octave digital EQ to play with... 'Got both at fire-sale prices on eBay.

John

[boputnam]

Both are important.....It's the ol' weak link in the chain....'zactly.

Hey Ian - didn't you go through some winky, really cool set-up a few years back? I searched but could not find the post. It was back when Ken was (again... :p ) trialing some DAC converters...

[Mr. Widget]

Both are important.....It's the ol' weak link in the chain.....I think that is basically true, but some links are more important than others... I'd put more effort in the DAC than the transport.



Have a listen to the Rega Saturn, I highly recommend it.Might be a better solution... outboard DACs frequently are actually a step backwards due to added jitter...

...or dump the whole idea and get a good turntable, cartridge and phono stage.:D


Widget

[jblfreeek]

What do you guys think of Benchmark DAC1 USB?
It is supposed to take care of jitter problem for good with its own circuitry.
It has a 1k+ price tag but is it worth it?

I am planning to upgrade my Stereo-Link DAC and still considering my options.....so far I got my eyes on 2 devices...Benchmark DAC1 USB and Squeezebox 3 (possibly using them together)....

I'm open to suggestions.

[boputnam]

What do you guys think of Benchmark DAC1 USB?...

Some info on the Benchmark DAC-1 - Need help and opinions guys!, by the venerable Ken Pachkowsky

[JBLOG]

What do you guys think of Benchmark DAC1 USB?


I am planning to upograde my Stereo-Link DAC and still considering my options.....so far I got my eyes on 2 devices.
I'm open to suggestions.

What's your budget?

The Benchmark is well respected.

Another option, with very a different sound are Gordon Rankin's USB DACs. http://www.usbdacs.com/

Audition them and see what sound best in your system.

[merlin]

I think that is basically true, but some links are more important than others... I'd put more effort in the DAC than the transport.

Widget

Whilst in Tokyo recently, I was lucky enough to spend a lot of time with one of the most respected and fastidious audio engineers in the business. I was surprised that he considers the Sony PS3 to be the finest transport available - they had apparently compared it with the $25K Pi Tracer and the Sony was easily the better unit.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I think there are two issue.

You need both a music server and if you need it an audiophile player.

You can't necessarily have both.

As Mr Widget says, ...or dump the whole idea and get a good turntable, cartridge and phono stage.

In the digital area there are two schools of thought, NOS non over sampling / upsampling Dacs and the over sampling / up sampling crowd....with Valves and without. Do a search on the Altmann Attraction dac for the most extreme of the former fastened to an off cut of floor board.

But as Dan Lavry points (who co designed ML's first dac ) you only need to over/upsample to about 60khertz, beyond that hardware and software issues create in accuracies. I have not heard many upsampling players but what I have heard sound better at 96khz than 192 khz....go figure.

I would like to hear the Cambridge audio Azur 840Z.

Where I part company with Lavry is that transports do matter and in that respect I think a good transport and Dac goes hand in hand. But we are talking about getting Red book up to SACD standards here.

I sold my Lavry to Mark, but I missed out on the Marantz S11 player deal I wanted at the time..bummer... they are aboutAUD $4500. So Iam interested in building a music server at the moment. If Mark blows any more drivers I may have to re acquire it and buy a Sony PS3.

Ian

[Ian Mackenzie]

Some info on the Benchmark DAC-1 - Need help and opinions guys!, by the venerable Ken Pachkowsky

Bo,

That was quite a while ago. There are some nice new dacs that have come out since. As I said earlier you need to keep the USB cable from the PC short (1 foot) to get good value out of an external Dac.

http://www.hagtech.com/chime.html

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0706/hagerman_technology_chime.htm

[richluvsound]

i think this combo could do it ,
www.audiosynthesis.co.uk..and the NAIM CDX2.

Rich

[jblfreeek]

Yes, I'm aware of both, Altmann DAC and two schools of thought...
I am on the non-upsampler side and my budget is 1500$ tops.

That is why I wonder about Benchmark DAC1 USB.

If only Altmann accepted regular power source and USB connection. (and of course had a chassis :p) then I would not hesitate a second.

But the way it is now, I think life is too short for ugly things. ;)
Plus there is a life threatening situation from my wife if I were to put a PCB powered with car battery in our living room let aside all the cables coming from the computer and going to stereo system on it all visible etc. :barf:

Btw, I just put details of my systems (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=193782&postcount=375) here in the proper section so you can see/decide better what's worth or not.

[richluvsound]

Bit the bullit. Now i'll drive you mad and end up on some ignore lists.:D

I ordered DEQX 2.6 P . Pre-amp with post DAC analog volume control. Xover,EQ , tame the foghorn and get rid of my bump.:applaud:

Can it be programmed for xovers for different speakers..... ? ie, 4345 and have the Xover freqencies stored in the memory for a 2435+h9800, 1500al ?
Rich

[Ian Mackenzie]

Bit the bullit. Now i'll drive you mad and end up on some ignore lists.:D

I ordered DEQX 2.6 P . Pre-amp with post DAC analog volume control. Xover,EQ , tame the foghorn and get rid of my bump.:applaud:

Can it be programmed for xovers for different speakers..... ? ie, 4345 and have the Xover freqencies stored in the memory for a 2435+h9800, 1500al ?
Rich

Apparently, but you'll need some coaching to get your programing skills up to speed. Talk to Mr Widget.

Ian

[johnaec]

I think Widget and Ken are the DEQX experts around here - hopefully they'll chime in.

John

[richluvsound]

Thanks,
I came here to learn, I hate being spoon fed:barf: I could use a challenge;)

Which Ken ?

Rich

[johnaec]

Which Ken ? I believe it was Ken Pachkowsky that picked up a DEQX...

Here: http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=147175&postcount=35

John

[richluvsound]

Did I say " i like a callenge"

[jblnut]

...or dump the whole idea and get a good turntable, cartridge and phono stage.:D


Widget

What he said ....:applaud:

jblnut

[Hoerninger]

...or dump the whole idea and get a good turntable, cartridge and phono stage.

Keep it straight and simple.
But remember rumble, wow and flutter ...? :D
:) Have a nice listening session.
___________
Peter

[richluvsound]

Keep it straight and simple.
But remember rumble, wow and flutter ...? :D
:) Have a nice listening session.
___________
Peter

Yep! I see trouble ahead ,a few tears, maybe even severe depression.


The turntable will be the next to go:applaud:

[Mr. Widget]

I think Widget and Ken are the DEQX experts around here - hopefully they'll chime in.No expert here... though I have learned a bit along the way as I bounce from one screw up to the next.:D


Can it be programmed for xovers for different speakers..... ? ie, 4345 and have the Xover freqencies stored in the memory for a 2435+h9800, 1500al ?Yes and no. Yes you can easily store up to 4 different crossover configurations that can be switched out on the fly via remote... and you can save an infinite number if you are willing to plug in your PC... not a simple push button to toggle between them, but it is quite possible.

And no, in that you will not be able to absolutely mimic the JBL crossovers. You can not create asymmetrical crossovers with DEQX... sometimes JBL and others choose to design an electrical network that is asymmetrical so that the acoustic response is closer to the ideal... while this can be an inconvenience with DEQX, you can typically correct this situation by using the DEQX's powerful EQ controls.

I am sure that with care, you will be able to design an active crossover that satisfies any system's requirements. I do not advocate using the DEQX automated correction filters with larger systems, however you may find yourself happy with them. If you have additional questions once you are up and running feel free to drop me a line.


Widget

PS: As Merlin will undoubtedly tell you, as good as DEQX is... it is still d-i-g-i-t-a-l.:D

[richluvsound]

thanks Widget,,

that give s me a lot more confidence. DIGITAL yep ! I dont know much about it.

I have the chance to use this kit while I await the arrival of something special;) The DEXQ will serve all my purposes for the time being. Merlin had one also for a while, so more help is only a spit away.

My system is in complete flux. The 45's and the K thingy are my starting point.

Rich

[Valentin]

I have a DEQX and i am 1 happy customer
i use it with JBL LSR6332 and now a pair LSR6312sp subs

i used to own a Proceed outboard DAC which was very good an the DAC of the DEQX are as good

in the near future i will be adding a 1 more amp to drive the 12" of the lsr6332 and have a triamplifid system
one thing i really like about the deqx is that after tuning your system you can still have 3 band of eq as tone control for different recordings which you can control remotely and erase with one button with out altering your main speaker and room tuning
the EQ is really nice (as you will see i am not an audio purist)
i find LSR are Very easy with eq as was there design intent to be able too adjust to the house curves and changing the axis curve changes the of axis similarly

i also recommend you don't use the auto correction do it your self

[readswift]

Guys

Is it true that the DAC is more important than the transport ? ie . Buy a top draw DAC and buy a top draw transport later ?.

TIA, Rich

initially , what important is, that the cd transport has to be slaved to the converter . The converter gives the clock to the transport, not the opposite way, this is very good solution . Afterall you bought the DEQX, has no support for this as far I see, the transport became critical importance now. Fear not tho, the top notch transports can be amazing. Hit stereophile.com for jitter specs. AES / EBU is mandatory .