E-140, E-145, 2225h

[sunnandmoog]

Hello, Going over some speakers to use for a Hammond organ and bass guitar set up. Will be building two ported cabinets for a pair of 15's. Will need a speaker that can handle the strong lows of the organ but also be nice for the bass guitars midrange with smooth highs. Also considering one 18 and one 15. Each cabinet will be powered using 60-125 tube watts.
Looking into the JBL: 2225h, E-145, E-140 , E-151
Would be very interested in your thoughts and suggestions.

[leif]

what about 2235H?

[sunnandmoog]

The reason I was thinking about the 2225 is because there is a pair localy for sale. In the past I've used the d-140 and e-140s for bass guitar use but for these new cabinets I will need them to provide lows around 32hz with the use of a Hammond organ and Moog synth as well with bass guitar in a stereo set up.
The cabinet specs at this point are 24x24x15 with a 2.5 inch port along the bottom. If any one can run those numbers and let me if this will work and what 15 inch driver might be best that would be great.

[Allanvh5150]

Hi, Being a sound engineer for many years, I have used all of these speakers. I always found the E140 the best for bass guitar. A nice top end but lacking low down, but that helps a lot to keep it clean. It also still rates very highly among bass players today. The 2225 was only ever good, IMHO, for sound reinforcment but was ok for bass. The E145 was designed for keyboards and is very good in this role and the E155 is not bad either. None of these speakers though, will go low enough to give you what you want. Keyboards and bass require very different approaches in cabinet design. I wouldnt be inclined to build one cabinet for both jobs. An E140 in a 120 Liter cabinet would be great for bass down to 40Hz or so and for keyboards an E145 with a 2118 mid and a 2404 horn, in the same size cabinet, would be great. (aka JBL 4628) Hope this was useful. Allan.

[scott fitlin]

E-145 was specifically recommended for organ. I also like the E-145, has better low end than the E-140, BUT, as the E-145 used to be available with a choice of either aluminum or paper dustcap, my choice is for the E-145 WITH aluminum dustcap. As with bass guitar, the HF and overtones radiated by the aluminum dustcap are desirable for instrument use.

[Earl K]

,,,,snip,,,, Keyboards and bass require very different approaches in cabinet design. I wouldnt be inclined to build one cabinet for both jobs. An E140 in a 120 Liter cabinet would be great for bass down to 40Hz or so and for keyboards an E145 with a 2118 mid and a 2404 horn, in the same size cabinet, would be great. (aka JBL 4628) Hope this was useful. Allan.

I agree with these observations .

I'd be inclined to build something along these lines for the organ duties .

http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=29556&stc=1&d=1195597265

The complete thread ( on JohnWs' "DIY Cabaret" ) is here ! (http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=19021)


:)

ps ; ( BTW ) Johns' a real "artiste" at these things .

[subwoof]

I made a number of E145 / 2123 cabinets for bass guitar and matching 2" 2445/2380 cabs for the keyboard rigs back in the mid 80's and NOTHING could touch the dynamics and punch.

The cabaret cab was nice but that 8" paper did NOT hold up to hard use and the tweeter didn't do the heavy "edge" without killing the diaphragm.

The E145 15" is in a category by itself for organ use except possibly the E155 18"

Do NOT use a foam surround or heavy copper voice coil type cone as it will dampen the overtones and character of the organ.

The K/E140 would be an acceptable compromise if found cheap locally.

sub

[toddalin]

Too bad you're on the other side of the world 'cause 4698B or 4699B are what you really want.

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/Cabaret_Series2.pdf

I have a pair of Cabaret 4698B cabinets with crossovers (and maybe the 10"s) for sale. JBL designed these special for electronic keyboards, but the 18" woofers are very desireable for bass also. (I actually sold the 18" woofers and horn tweets to an LH bass player.)

BTW, if anyone wants the cabinets with crossovers, you can have them for $100/pr but you've got to pick them up in Orange County, CA.

[jbl_man_uk]

I have all 3 of those drivers here,and of course all produce a different type of sound,depending on the type of cabinet...if u have the space to build a large cabinet,its worth trying an E155 18,with an E130 for the higher ranges..the E130 will also give u amazing sensitivity and volume on the highs...or,probually the best organ cabinet i have heard,4x E130..that produced some serious volume!

[sunnandmoog]

Lets just say my knowledge has been growing very rapidly with this discussion and I thank you all very much for all your thoughts!

After researching the E-145 I found a pair last night for a decent price and went for it, but I'm convinced I will need an 18 for the sub lows that the Moog puts out. So perhaps an 18" in one cab and the second housing an E-145 along with a mid 8 or 10 driver. My concern is that with dedicating on cabinet for the ultra lows that the stereo effect will be minimized.

Here are some other combinations I'm thinking about:

1. 18" in one cab full range, the other with the E-145
2. 18" in one cab, the other with two 12's and two 10's
3. 18" in one cab with crossover and horn, the other with one E-145 and one 8" or 10"

Well, the list could go on and on with different combinations but in the end I'm still needing the cabinets to be relatively portable for travel, have the same exterior dimensions and add to the vintage quality of the instruments.

Would love to hear your additional opinions!

[sunnandmoog]

Still on the fence.... and I need to get a final answer to the cabinet maker.
Is an 18" such as the E-151 or E-155 going to really make much sonic difference for the deep lows of the Hammond and Moog then the E-145's?

From the spec's it's a 5 Hz difference. Since I now have the pair of 145's simplifying things and retaining a nice stereo spread may be a good idea much less the added cost of an 18".

Finally, if I go with the 15's in separate cabinets what mid 8" be ideal?

[Robh3606]

I use E-145's in my home stereo set-up. They need help below 40Hz in that setting. I have stereo subwoofers for low end below 50Hz. If you really want to be able to crank below 40Hz you might what to look at something like the 2242 as a mono sub below the 145's. It can take goobs of power and you can add a bit of EQ to get it flat to about 20Hz. Do a search for 2242

Rob:)


http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4845&highlight=2242

[sunnandmoog]

Narrowing it down a bit but the decision is hard.

Which set up would you go for? First option I think would be the most basic, less costly and cover most usable frequency's for the bass and keys.
The second option covers the lows better but not a sub. Will not give the best stereo effect but would cover more frequencies. Also more$$$


1- E-145, 2118, in both boxes
If needed will work on a sub at a later date for ultra lows
26x26x15 = 4.6 ft. port length?


2- E-145, 2118, 2404? in one box 26x26x15
2nd box E-155 in 26x26x26 box

[johnaec]

2- E-145, 2118, 2404? Those are exactly the components in the JBL Cabaret 4628B. They're often on eBay for less than the components get separately. I have a pair myself - they're definitely one of JBL's better combinations.

I just checked, and while these are listed as pick up only in AL, they have 2 pairs, (separate auctions), and no one has bid yet at $300/pr.: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330193602576&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=014

John

[sunnandmoog]

Thanks John! I'll keep an eye on these. Wish I would have seen these before I bought the E145's. My plan is to build these cabinets to look and pair up well to my vintage Sunn bass amps. Overall I'm wanting two cabinets that will provide strong deep lows with a smooth punchy mid-range.

[rs237]

Those are exactly the components in the JBL Cabaret 4628B. They're often on eBay for less than the components get separately. I have a pair myself - they're definitely one of JBL's better combinations.

I just checked, and while these are listed as pick up only in AL, they have 2 pairs, (separate auctions), and no one has bid yet at $300/pr.: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330193602576&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=014

John


I wanted it so something in there to buy Germany:(:(:(

regards
juergen

[pos]

Hi Juergen,

Not in Germany, but close enough for shipping:
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=230198130439&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=013 (http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=230198130439&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=013)

(no affiliation)

the seller says that the fotos are from a former pair he had for sale, and that the actual pair looks a bit better.
Better check that before buying..

[rs237]

Hi pos,

Thanks for the tip, i will contact the seller.
But USA 300$ , Europa 680EUR :(

regards

juergen

[short_circutz]

My concern is that with dedicating on cabinet for the ultra lows that the stereo effect will be minimized.


Normally, the direction of the source of low frequencies cannot be heard. Using one cabinet to reproduce anything, say below 80 or 100 Hz isn't an issue. Actually this helps eliminate nulls in SPL in various places in the room that the speaker is operating in.