250 Ti test vintage tube and modern amp

[gerard]

Just a thread about my test on modern and vintage tube amps .

I just finish to rebuild a 1960's sansui au-111 vintage amplifier which I think is well known form hifi entousiast .
You might also know that Sansui was a Jbl distributor in Japan if i am not wrong ( correct me )

So I test this new baby ( 4x6l6gc) giving around 30-35 watts .


1- actual installation bi-amp with Xpl200 xover on 250 boxes + 250 Hp .
Transistor bass amp 120 watts
Medium amp are 2 rogue m-150 monoblocks kt88 150 watts each with mapletree tube preamp .
Active Xover rane Ac23.

2- test mono amp with the sansui au-111
Sound is very nice , medium has a softness I never had , bass if plenty but not as precise as bi amp .
overall musicality is very nice , precision is not as good as installtion 1 , Dynamic is ok but defenitely needs more power if you do not live in a studio
This is really a Vintage sound with Great musicality .

3 - test bi-amp with the sansui in high frequency :
Too much bass , imprecise , lost of dynamic : magic is gone .....

4. Test Rogue as stand alone amp : Result is good but bass is not as well controlled as in Bi amp less precision .

5. Come back to installation 1 .
precision , high dynamic ( 250 needs really 120/150 watts ) medium very precise but not as soft as in sansui au-111 .

may be I should try to test Kt66 instead of KT88 ????

:blah:

Installation 1 give a very modern sound able to complete to any modern speakers .


Gerard

[scott fitlin]

I like the sound of tubes in the mix. It isnt practical for me to use tube amps, but I am using a Summit Audio DCL-200 compressor in the signal path. Mids are gorgeious, low mids and mid bass are full and warm, highs have that sparkly, but non fatiguing sound, and the bass is generous sounding. Bassline definition was much better than I expected, actually basslines have that stringy, realistic sound. And the kick drum has that thwack that sounds real to me.

All the years, they always said tube bass is mushy, and highs are rolled off, yet, it sounds the exact opposite to me.

I love the sound of NOS 1960,s vintage Amperex 12AX7A,s.

I agree, tubes and JBL do work well!

[Rolf]

I would like to try tube amps in the HF ? area on my 4343's (300Hz ->). The problem is that I can't find any with enough power. They need at least 300+ watt in that area. In the low end tubes are not an option, the 2235H's needs a lot more.

Today I use 750W for the woofers, (no problem) and 200W for the rest, and when I play loud, the 200W are clipping:biting:.

I know this is bullshit fore some, but it is the truth. These speakers really need power to do their best.

[JBLOG]

Have you looked at Manley.

http://www.manleylabs.com/containerpages/500_Y2K.html


You might want to also look into hybrid Amps (both SS and tube). Butler Audio makes some nice products. I'm using one in my home theater system.

http://www.butleraudio.com/home.php

[Ducatista47]

Rolf, here is another (expensive) possibility. The Rogue Zeus.
http://www.rogueaudio.com/Products_Zeus.htm (http://www.rogueaudio.com/Products_Zeus.htm)
They should show up used sometimes.

Speaking of hybrids, if you can get a great deal on a used KR Audio Kronzilla, it doesn't have enough power for you but you won't be disappointed in the sound. If you don't like it, I'll rob a bank and buy it!

Clark in Peoria

[scott fitlin]

Rolf, have you ever considered a high quality mosfet amp? Mosfets offer a tubey sound and is sweeter sounding than bipolar output amps, and you can get the power levels you need. And at a price from mid price level, to as high as you wanna go. I like mosfets on mid horns, too.

Also, amps, that have power, are more affordable than super high end brands, Vincent Audio is an up and comer many are saying sounds good!

[Titanium Dome]

Rolf, have you ever considered a high quality mosfet amp? Mosfets offer a tubey sound and is sweeter sounding than bipolar output amps, and you can get the power levels you need. And at a price from mid price level, to as high as you wanna go. I like mosfets on mid horns, too.



I'll agree with all this and add that MOSFETs bring in the convenience of plug and play, long term stability and reliability. There's not a whole lot of farking around.

I like to spend my time enjoying my system by playing music through it, not constantly rolling tubes, adjusting bias, eliminating buzzes and hum, and worrying about arcing filaments. OTOH, if you love this kind of thing, tubes are wonderful, and I have a lot of admiration for true tube afficianados. They can work some real magic.

[Rolf]

Rolf, have you ever considered a high quality mosfet amp? Mosfets offer a tubey sound and is sweeter sounding than bipolar output amps, and you can get the power levels you need. And at a price from mid price level, to as high as you wanna go. I like mosfets on mid horns, too.

Also, amps, that have power, are more affordable than super high end brands, Vincent Audio is an up and comer many are saying sounds good!

I already have them Scott. From Perreaux. Best amps I ever heard, but it would be nice to try a only tube amp.

[opimax]

Rolf,as i start to collect some old Perreaux amps i am curious what models you have ? I have 2 6000b and 1 3000b (being repaired and caps upgraded). I wish I could afford the newer lines :). I use them on the front 3 of the 7.2 I have, maybe switch out the Adcom running the b460 to a bigger Perreaux someday.

Mark

[Rolf]

Rolf,as i start to collect some old Perreaux amps i am curious what models you have ? I have 2 6000b and 1 3000b (being repaired and caps upgraded). I wish I could afford the newer lines :). I use them on the front 3 of the 7.2 I have, maybe switch out the Adcom running the b460 to a bigger Perreaux someday.

Mark

Hi.

750's, (two, Classic version) 350P's (one) R200i's, (two), E-160i, (one), CD1P, (one), AVP1P, (one),.

Today the "P" is called "Prisma". Same product.

[scott fitlin]

I already have them Scott. From Perreaux. Best amps I ever heard, but it would be nice to try a only tube amp.Those are NICE! Perreaux sounds sounds great.

All Tube! An all tube amp, of the power level you want, will be hellaciously expensive. Theres just no way around that. The right amp would be the ultimate expression of tube sweetness, lush sounding mids, and naturalness, but, 300 GREAT tube watts per channel is gonna cost.

[opimax]

very nice, happily envious

MArk

[Rolf]

Those are NICE! Perreaux sounds sounds great.

All Tube! An all tube amp, of the power level you want, will be hellaciously expensive. Theres just no way around that. The right amp would be the ultimate expression of tube sweetness, lush sounding mids, and naturalness, but, 300 GREAT tube watts per channel is gonna cost.

Yea. I know (price) problem is nobody in Norway have them in stock, so I can't try them.

[allen mueller]

I recently got a Marchand XM26 tube crossover for my system. It replaced a BSS FDS360 that I was previously using. The sound is very realistic, dynamic, and pleasurable to listen to. Not sure if it is the crossover design or the tubes, but I know I like it.

Allen

[scott fitlin]

Marchand is good stuff.


Hey Rolf, I have an idea for you, similar to what I do, and IT WORKS! Tube EQ, you use a good tube paramteric, and you get the tube flavor, without any of the hassle of tube amps. Tubes in line level components last really long, dont need re-biasing, and is a very affordable way to give the tube flavor to the sound, yet still have the best attributes of the amps that you have.

Rolf, the two EQ,s I SERIOUSLY recommend to you, are the Summit Audio FEQ-50, they are half rackspace mono units, you need 2 for stereo and the Summit rackmount kit, they are passive filter circuits, selectable frequencies, adjustable bandwidth, and you can swing +14db to -14db of boost or cut in the unit per frequency, about $1000ea, so two G,s for stereo. I LIKE Summits sound. http://www.summitaudio.com/feq-50-equalizer.htm

Then, The Manleys, Langevin Mini Massive. A bit pricier than the Summit, also incredible sound, really good stuff. discrete SS at its VERY best. Classic passive Western Electric circuits, like the ones licensed to Pultec, seriously good! http://www.manleylabs.com/containerpages/minimassive.html

Having sweet sounding tube devices at the line level stage works, youll get what you want, and you get to keep the power you want/need without having to go remortgage your home to own a beast of a tube amp! Or sweet sounding discrete SS, and Langevin is an amazing sounding brand, everything Manley makes is highly regarded!

[gerard]

hello

What about the tube ultra-q eq from behringer :

http://www.behringer.com/02_products/proddetail.cfm?lang=ENG&id=T1951&type=220


Cheap but how does it sound ,

Gerard

[timc]

I would like to try tube amps in the HF ? area on my 4343's (300Hz ->). The problem is that I can't find any with enough power. They need at least 300+ watt in that area. In the low end tubes are not an option, the 2235H's needs a lot more.

Today I use 750W for the woofers, (no problem) and 200W for the rest, and when I play loud, the 200W are clipping:biting:.

I know this is bullshit fore some, but it is the truth. These speakers really need power to do their best.


Hi Rolf.

What about a used, BIG Audio Research? The VTM200 monoblocks are often found on Audiogon, and they have power to boot.

And of course there is the REF-610T..................................But the pricetag :(



-Tim