PICKING CAPACITORS

[Hoerninger]

http://www.reliablecapacitors.com/pickcap.htm
(Many figures at the bottom.)

http://www.reliablecapacitors.com/pickcap_files/pick1.jpg
__________
Peter

[4313B]

Yeah, I like their PPT Theta's and RT's as bypass capacitors.

[Hoerninger]

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/index.html
CAP TEST:
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

[JBL 4645]

I haven’t played around with capacitors in years now not since I had CB radio where I could solder a different (microfarad value) to get the "Roger Bleep" on my "Cobra 148 GLT-DX" to have a slightly longer delay that LOL cursed the fuse to short out LOL :D oh those where the days of experimenting.

With crossovers I haven’t yet mucked around and I sure as hell don’t what to blow anything up unless its already been tried out.

If you what to have some lazy fun with the capacitors take a pair of pliers place a capacitor in-between the pliers take a lighter and hold the flame underneath the capacitor. The bigger the capacitor the louder it will be! Just remember to ware a mask these smell bad! :barf:

[JBL 4645]

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/index.html
CAP TEST:
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html


This is a good fascinating read I’m thinking of hooking up the other JBL for an experiment if I can find some cable that is long enough I’m very short on cable at the moment.

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Serious-Sub.html

[greyhound]

vibrations inside the capacitors seem te have impact on the overal sound.

usualy the carbon based capacitors sound the best.
but you can upgrade your capacitor
like this

http://www.dhtrob.com/keesolaf/elco.htm

after putting it in a wooden case use laquer on a natural base (schellac, C37) to get it airtight.

also dipping them in beewax gives improvements

[JBL 4645]

vibrations inside the capacitors seem te have impact on the overal sound.

usualy the carbon based capacitors sound the best.
but you can upgrade your capacitor
like this

http://www.dhtrob.com/keesolaf/elco.htm

after putting it in a wooden case use laquer on a natural base (schellac, C37) to get it airtight.

also dipping them in beewax gives improvements

Are you saying by de-soldering the type of specific capacitors that the manufacture specified for certain products and by replacing it with a different grade will make a noticeable improvement in performance?

[hjames]

Are you saying by de-soldering the type of specific capacitors that the manufacture specified for certain products and by replacing it with a different grade will make a noticeable improvement in performance?

Ah c'mon Ash ... this is BASIC stuff.
Manufacturers pick caps (brands/quality) based on PRICE POINT ...
in older speakers caps have AGED and may no longer be in spec.

To get better sound, replace old caps with better speced parts -
and as G err , 4313B says, replace old crossovers with CC version for improved sound ...

[greyhound]

Are you saying by de-soldering the type of specific capacitors that the manufacture specified for certain products and by replacing it with a different grade will make a noticeable improvement in performance?


well im a carbon freak:D
capacitors on a oil carbon base improved my sound considerably.

the vintage equipment (in my opinion) has more character than modern stuff.
a friend of mine replaced all resistors that were carbon based with metal films. we compared and now hes soldering everything back.
but technicaly it measured better. but the old amp lost its soul.
the 1801 poweramp by bose.

in speakers and also cd players ive got improvements.
i dont understand what you mean by grade
the specifics should be the same but the brands are different.

this is also the case with coils. remove the ferriet/iron core and make them bigger. so teh centre is air.

[Doctor_Electron]

"If you what to have some lazy fun with the capacitors"

Try this... Take a 120 uF /50 WV, wet-slug tantalum electrolytic and plug it backwards into a test bench (U.S. Navy repair shop) 28 VDC receptacle. Then after ten seconds or so, get nervious about it all and swat it out of the receptacle with a foxtail brush.
If it's as much fun as my stunt turned out to be, it will violently explode, ala' a freshly made M-80, about six feet from the receptacle, and smell EXTREMELY toxic.
Didn't seem quite so funny at the moment, but it did (and I mean DID) get the full attenton of everone in the shop.
We afterwards tried (via remote conrol power-on, safer (?) to replicate those results, but to no avail!:banghead:

[greyhound]

"If you what to have some lazy fun with the capacitors"

Try this... Take a 120 uF /50 WV, wet-slug tantalum electrolytic and plug it backwards into a test bench (U.S. Navy repair shop) 28 VDC receptacle. Then after ten seconds or so, get nervious about it all and swat it out of the receptacle with a foxtail brush.
If it's as much fun as my stunt turned out to be, it will violently explode, ala' a freshly made M-80, about six feet from the receptacle, and smell EXTREMELY toxic.
Didn't seem quite so funny at the moment, but it did (and I mean DID) get the full attenton of everone in the shop.
We afterwards tried (via remote conrol power-on, safer (?) to replicate those results, but to no avail!:banghead:

:applaud:

[Hoerninger]

AES-Paper:
Menno van der Veen "Non-linear distortions in capacitors"

http://www.mennovanderveen.nl/nl/downloa/download_4.pdf
____________
Peter

[Hoerninger]

National Semiconductor (Bob Pease):
http://www.national.com/rap/Application/0,1570,28,00.html


http://www.national.com/rap/images/capsoak7.gif

Further reading by Bob Pease:
http://electronicdesign.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=6096
___________
Peter

[Hoerninger]

http://waltjung.org/PDFs/Picking_Capacitors_1.pdf

http://waltjung.org/PDFs/Picking_Capacitors_2.pdf
______________
Peter

[Hoerninger]

Understanding Dielectric Absorbtion by Sencore
http://www.sencore.com/uploads/files/UnderstandDielectricAbsorption.pdf

easy to follow, some figures for illustrating - refering to the graphs of National Semiconductor
____________
Peter

[Hoerninger]

Steve Bench:

The Sound of Capacitors - Capacitor Linearity **Expanded**
http://greygum.net/sbench/sbench102/caps.html

http://greygum.net/sbench/sbench102/cap4.jpg
____________
Peter

[scott fitlin]

well im a carbon freak:D
capacitors on a oil carbon base improved my sound considerably.

the vintage equipment (in my opinion) has more character than modern stuff.
a friend of mine replaced all resistors that were carbon based with metal films. we compared and now hes soldering everything back.
but technicaly it measured better. but the old amp lost its soul.
the 1801 poweramp by bose.

in speakers and also cd players ive got improvements.
i dont understand what you mean by grade
the specifics should be the same but the brands are different.

this is also the case with coils. remove the ferriet/iron core and make them bigger. so teh centre is air.ME TOO! I LOVE CARBON COMPOSITION, has a certain sound. :bouncy:

Capacitors? I agree, some of the vintage items have a sound that is special, IF they haven't worn out or shifted too terribly.

In my crossovers hi frequency sections, I replaced two metallized film caps, with modern remakes of an old style film cap, MUSTARD CAPACITORS! typically, these are used for musical instrument amplifiers, and offer a unique coloration characteristic I find quite desirable. Makes the highs sound creamy, and sweet. Very much the way certain tube amps sounded, as well as a few SS designs.

www.sozoamplification.com

[Hoerninger]

An Improved SPICE Capacitor Model by Steven M. Sandler.

I hope that this simple subcircuit will help to separate fact from fiction, and may also find itself as auseful tool in the selection of capacitors for switching power supply designs.http://www.aeng.com/pdf/Capacitor.PDF

Improved Spice Models of Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors by Sam G. Parler, Jr.
www.cde.com/tech/impedance.pdf (http://www.cde.com/tech/impedance.pdf)
____________
Peter

[Hoerninger]

Lynn Olson, 2002:
Towards perfection - building a better Capacitor:

http://www.nutshellhifi.com/library/capacitor.html
___________
Peter

[jcrobso]

http://waltjung.org/PDFs/Picking_Capacitors_1.pdf

http://waltjung.org/PDFs/Picking_Capacitors_2.pdf
______________
Peter
I remember reading them very carefully back then. Nice to read them again.
I think that a lot of high grade audio caps we have today are a result of these articles in Audio.

[1audiohack]

In the "Towards Perfection - Building a Better Capacitor" article I take exception to a couple of statements;


Aluminum is notoriously easy to oxidize, acquiring a film minutes after it's removed from an acid-etch cleaning bath.

Many aluminum alloys are easily oxidized, pure aluminum happens to be very corrosion resistant, it's just not very strong.


although relaxation and re-orientation of the grain structure might be possible as well. For transformers, the cause is fairly obvious: the stress of winding the wire fractures the grain structure of the wire at each bend around the winding former, and it takes weeks or months for the winding stresses to be relieved.

Well, no, first off virtually all copper wire is pulled down to size, pre-stressed before it's even spooled. One very curious property of copper wire is that if you take a length of it (single strand) and measure it's diameter end to end and then stretch it, and measure it again you will find that it reduces in diameter from end to end with astonishing precision, no thin spots, no lumps. This is in part due to the fact that copper has a body centered atomic stucture... I have tried to figure out how to explain in print how these bodies are bound together and the complex way they distribute strain forces through the structure unlike the lattice structures of steel and will have to find some pictures if anyone is really that interested.

Suffice it to say that copper does not have a grain stucture that seperates and then heals, it's more like a "chinese finger" (the woven cable type like you pull wire with) when you pull on it, it changes dimension without suffering any damage. Like that yet with another dimension added to it.

[Progneta]

A while back I talked to some individuals who told me to try some oil caps. In short I never did......Well after digging through my shop I found some old JAN radio stuff. I found that the caps were the perfect value for the hi freq portion of my 2-way setup (Altec 288 and 515b). They are from the 60s so I put them on my LCR meter and found they are reading perfect. So I rigged up my setup with the oil caps w/ a bypass cap and YAHOOO does it sound good!!!! I am still experimenting with different caps but oil caps give me a real life sound....beautiful!....scrap the low cost caps ehehehhe...... I do want to try some Duelund CAST-Cu Copper/Paper-in-oil caps....but the wife factor gets in the way........maybe when she is gone I will have them scheduled for delivery! hahaha

-G

[jcrobso]

In the "Towards Perfection - Building a Better Capacitor" article I take exception to a couple of statements;



Many aluminum alloys are easily oxidized, pure aluminum happens to be very corrosion resistant, it's just not very strong.



Well, no, first off virtually all copper wire is pulled down to size, pre-stressed before it's even spooled. One very curious property of copper wire is that if you take a length of it (single strand) and measure it's diameter end to end and then stretch it, and measure it again you will find that it reduces in diameter from end to end with astonishing precision, no thin spots, no lumps. This is in part due to the fact that copper has a body centered atomic stucture... I have tried to figure out how to explain in print how these bodies are bound together and the complex way they distribute strain forces through the structure unlike the lattice structures of steel and will have to find some pictures if anyone is really that interested.

Suffice it to say that copper does not have a grain stucture that seperates and then heals, it's more like a "chinese finger" (the woven cable type like you pull wire with) when you pull on it, it changes dimension without suffering any damage. Like that yet with another dimension added to it.

Copper wire is made by pulling it through a die, the molecules realign in the process.
However the more you work copper the harder it gets, so it must be annealed.
Annealing is done buy heating up the wire and then let it very slowly cool back to room temp.

[1audiohack]

Copper wire is made by pulling it through a die, the molecules realign in the process.

UhUh, there are no molecules in metal, nothing in the structure is that large!

All the rest,, yup.

[jcrobso]

UhUh, there are no molecules in metal, nothing in the structure is that large!

All the rest,, yup.
Some people are just so picky.;)

[Hoerninger]

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.139.998&rep=rep1&type=pdf

____________
Peter