jbl 4311 - replacing mid and tweeter

[gni]

hello everyone
i have a pair of 4311. In one of them the tweeter and mid need to be raplaced. The cone of the tweeter is pressed in and cracked, and the mid seems burnt (I measured it with a multimeter).

I tried to remove the tweeter, but it's glued on and doesn't seem easy to become unstuck. I tried removing the woofer to gain access to the inside and maybe push it out, but the woofer is also glued. It seems hard to remove any of them without damaging the wood.

Any help on how to proceed appreciated

[speakerdave]

I doubt they are glued; more likely they are just gasket-stuck. I would suggest you try gently working a thin-bladed wall knife (or putty knife) under the edge and gradually loosen it all around. Put some stout paper under the wall knife to keep from marring the surface of the baffle. I would cut a circle out of a piece of card stock to fit around the driver and tape it in place. The main thing is patience and working slowly.

I'm not sure which tweeter that is--the LE25, I think. They can be found used at reasonable prices.

The midrange should be the 2105. That also shows up on ebay for fairly reasonable prices. They are no longer serviceable at JBL, so be sure you get one that is in good working condition.

David

[mbd7]

For speakers and everything thing else.

Dave, thanks for the chuckle!

mbd

[speakerdave]

For speakers and everything thing else.

Dave, thanks for the chuckle!

mbd

Actually, I didn't mean anything by it. It was just that since the question came from someone in Greece, I didn't know if the word "knife" would have all the same meanings to him.

David

[gni]

thanks for replying,

speakerdave, the tweeters are actually glued on. The glue is visible between the tweeter metal casing and the wooden cabinet.
I tried removing them with a knife but the glue was too hard (I didn't force it much). I'll give it a go again and see...

btw I just spoke with a friend of mine in the UK who has the same model and his tweeters are also glued...

[speakerdave]

You might be trying to pry the tweeter apart. There may be a plastic layer, a metal layer (the body of the tweeter), and a thick paper/cardboard gasket under that. The glue you're seeing may be holding the plastic to the metal body of the tweeter. Don't pry hard on the plastic layer; you may snap the edge. I'm looking at an LE26, assuming the LE25 is similar. You may need to work the knife in at a steep angle to get under the metal layer if it is recessed into the baffle board. That appears to be the case with my son's 4311. If you can't get it out without digging up the baffle board, you may need to pull the woofer and rapp the tweeter from behind while you're prying on it. You probably will be replacing that tweeter rather than reconing it, so it's not critical, but still, it would be nice to get it out without wrecking something.

The cast metal mounting flange of the midrange is mounted to the surface of the baffle board. Are you seeing glue there? It should not be glued. The drivers are held in place with screws. The factory may have used some sealant like duct seal to prevent the enclosure from leaking and losing tune (AR did this). I don't think JBL did this, but if so it will hold the driver some, but not like glue. It will let go. I think, however, you will find that in both cases there are paper/cardboard gaskets which, under pressure all these years, have stuck to the finish and the driver. They will let go with reasonable outward pressure

David

[gni]

david, thanks a lot for your help.

here are some pix of the speaker:
http://www.audioheritage.org/images/jbl/extracts/l100-431x.jpg
http://blog1.musicfield.jp/du_ao1/archives/4311B.jpg

these speakers are of great sentimental value to my father, so i did not force them at all.

it seems the tweeter is held by those 4 screws at the corners. the glue is under the metal square part of the chassis of the tweeter (which is screwed on the cabinet). It seems that no other layers exist between the metal and the cabinet, other than the glue.

the mid-range had no glue or anything else, i could easily remove it when i removed the screws.

I haven't made another attempt to remove it, as i had no spare time the last days, i'll try using a spatula (or whatever it's called) as you suggested in your first post.

please tell me if i'm missing something

stefanos

[speakerdave]

OK. There may be some sealant under the tweeter mounting flange. There is a subenclosure behind the midrange to shield its cone from the back pressure of the woofer in the cabinet. The tweeter is enclosed in itself and so doesn't need that and backs directly into the enclosure space I believe. JBL may have found it necessary to mount it with duct seal or something similar to get rid of air leaks around it. They would know these tweeters may need to be demounted if blown, so they would not glue them. If there is sealant it will hold unto the tweeter, but not like glue. It should let go with reasonable upward pressure.

David

[grumpy]

To add to speakerdave's advice:

I've removed an LE25 from a 4311WX-A . It -can- be difficult to
remove them without damaging the front of the cabinet (having bits of
cabinet stay stuck with the tweeter). Cutting a scribe line along the edge
of the tweeter helped. There was indeed a paper gasket underneath, but
there was also a "seal" that didn't want to give up easily... whether it was
intentional or paint that was wet when the assembly went together,
it was mostly just the edge that was stuck. Just be careful and take your
time. -grumpy

[gni]

success...
ok i managed to remove it. as speakerdave suggested what appeared to be glue was in fact sealant (tiny amount around the edge). There was a layer of paper or something between the tweeter chassis and the enclosure which was stuck to the finish (and that was keeping the tweeter there). I followed grumpy's advice and cut the sealant around. No damage was done on the wooden front, just to that paper layer, which partly remains stuck on the front, but seems easy to remove...

I tested it with other drivers in place of the tweeter and mid, and the crossover seems ok. Since these speakers are so old, should I check/replace any parts of the crossover?

thanks to all for the help,
next step, finding replacement parts....

[speakerdave]

Cool. Glad it worked out for you. Both the LE25 and the 2105 have shown upon ebay since this thread started. If they're gone, it'll happen again.

David

[brutal]

You might be trying to pry the tweeter apart. There may be a plastic layer, a metal layer (the body of the tweeter), and a thick paper/cardboard gasket under that. The glue you're seeing may be holding the plastic to the metal body of the tweeter. Don't pry hard on the plastic layer; you may snap the edge. I'm looking at an LE26, assuming the LE25 is similar. You may need to work the knife in at a steep angle to get under the metal layer if it is recessed into the baffle board. That appears to be the case with my son's 4311. If you can't get it out without digging up the baffle board, you may need to pull the woofer and rapp the tweeter from behind while you're prying on it. You probably will be replacing that tweeter rather than reconing it, so it's not critical, but still, it would be nice to get it out without wrecking something.

The cast metal mounting flange of the midrange is mounted to the surface of the baffle board. Are you seeing glue there? It should not be glued. The drivers are held in place with screws. The factory may have used some sealant like duct seal to prevent the enclosure from leaking and losing tune (AR did this). I don't think JBL did this, but if so it will hold the driver some, but not like glue. It will let go. I think, however, you will find that in both cases there are paper/cardboard gaskets which, under pressure all these years, have stuck to the finish and the driver. They will let go with reasonable outward pressure

David

Sometimes a sharp smack on a horizontal edge using a piece of wood and a plastic or lightweight hammer works to pop those sticky buggers off.

[RBRANTLY]

hi,
i,m new to the forum and need help. i bought some 4311s and both mids and both tweeters dont work. my question is how can i tell if the problem is the speakers or the crossovers oor some other components? thanks for any help

[SMKSoundPro]

Remove the non-working units and test for continuity across the two terminals. It will read 4-12 ohms if good, and open if bad.

Also, sweep the mid and high controls back and forht to "scrub" the contacts in the l-pads.

Dump the 4311's on the net for firewood, and get some big L200b's to rock the house!:bouncy:

Scott.

[radiomatic]

I've also got a pair of 4311s which I like a lot. They seem to need some attention, and I am doing my best but I am a bit lost with an issue.
I replaced already a blown tweeter (difficult to take out because of the gasket and sealant). Now I seem to have a blown midrange too, but I am not positive it was blown when the speakers first came home.
Would a bad crossover kill the tweeter and / or the midange?
The thing is I would like to check both crossovers anyway, but I don't know how to get to them. Once I saw one of those crossovers and they have two holes to screw them somewhere, but there are no screws to be seen on the front face of the box, so I don't know how they are serviced -if they ever are- I figured new capacitors may improve the performance of the speakers, as old paper capacitors tend to go bad and leak with the years, but again I am not really sure in this case. Any suggestion very much appreciated, and happy New Year!

[SMKSoundPro]

Dear radiomatic,

I have four 4311's in the main bar mounted high up on the walls for everyday music, tv audio and jukebox. I have worked on 4311 and 4312 for years.

The crossover is very simple consisting of a couple of caps and l-pads.
It is located behind the foilcal.

Take a good hair dryer, heatgun and warm the foilcal while using a putty knife to gently pry the foilcal up. Try not to wrinkle it.

You will find some screws there behind the foilcal that mount the crossover board. Remove the crossover board.

I generally find it is best to replace the l-pads, as they usually have burnt spots on their windings. No amount of brakecleaner or FM tuner spray seems to work for me.

I have never replaced the caps.

I think the LE5-2 mid driver recone kit is No longer available from JBL, but I could be wrong.
I don't know about the availability of the LE25-2 tweeter cone kit.

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Transducers%20Parts%20List/Transducer%20Parts%20List.pdf


LE25-1 $76.00 D8RLE25 21606 - 1-B-4 50402 F, S1, A11 Wt 1
LE25-2 $78.00 D8RLE252 21606 - 1-B-4 53363 F, S1, A11 Wt 1


LE5-2 $80.00 C8RLE52 54721 29931 M 1-B-5 S1,A12,A6 Wt 1
LE5-9 - No Longer Avail. - - 1-B S1 No Longer Avail. Wt 1

Doesn't seem to be a problem, still.
Bottom line is check for burned l-pads. Pretty much the culprit!

Happy New Year!!!
Scott.

[radiomatic]

Dear Scott,

Thanks a million!!
I would never have guessed... I am going to attempt removing the foilcal and will check if there is anything wrong once I gain access to the crossovers. Will keep you posted.
I got today a pair of original crossovers I ordered eons ago, for spares. Seller said they work fine, though the cans are rusty and I don't like that a bit.
I am quite in love with these speakers ever since I saw and heard them many years ago in one of the recording studios of the Spanish National Radio. I imported them from the US just a few months back, and had to pay a pound of flesh for the shipping as they are heavy and there is no longer surface mail from there to here. Then they got stuck in customs because of wrong paperwork or something. Months and months of (im)patient waiting, but they are here at last...
A tweeter proved to be DOA as I tried the speakers for the first time, but I replaced it with an original I had here. Foam rings had disintegrated too, but I located new ones on eBay and changed them first thing. No big deal, and the looks are a million times better too with new rings...
And now this midrange speaker pain... I have just ordered a pair of "matched" (is there such a thing?) L5-2s from a dealer in California. He mentions something about wax seals, and he promises they work fine. Can't wait to get them here.
As you see I am indeed determined to make my 4311s sound the way they should. It's being sort of an epic process, but then the enjoyment is only more because of each overcome difficulty :-)
Your setup with 4 of them 4311s must be quite impressive and I am pretty sure the result is awesome...

Dear Scott: greetings from Spain, Happy New Year and many, many thanks again,

Fernando (radiomatic)