Looking for matching JBL's

[Wandler]

Hello everybody!

I'm new to this forum and perhaps somebody can help me:

I have a SCOTT 222A Amplifier which I love because of it's incredible "smooth" sound-quality which can hardly be beaten by modern amplifiers (sorry - that's my taste :o:) and my quite well matching Mission speakers were stolen!!! Now I want to take that forced opportunity (sorry, my english is not perfect, I'm from Austria, where one speaks german :)) to improve my system with Vintage JBL's.

What Speakers would you reccomend me - which would match my tube Amp.(13wpc RMS) with its rich overtones?

And of course, where would I find these speakers, especially as I can not invest much money at the moment. Anyway, I think, these speakers shoulden't be too big (power-consumption ? and the room, where I have this stereo is quite small - 13m²)?

I'm observing ebay in Austria and Germany, but there I found only quite modern models such as TLX 25 (which was sold right now for 62 Euro - this price would be OK for me when I get something really matching), but I would not buy them without testlistening with my amp.

When you tell me, what JBL's (from the sixties to the nineties) could match, I woulden't bother to take quite a time to find them.

As I am a carpenter by profession, I would even build the case myself, if necessary, and I have a friend, who can repair vintage speakers professionally (for example fixing matching sikken).

Greetings from "central europe"

Wandler

[macaroonie]

100 euros will not get you anything good unless you are really lucky but I would recommend that you search for these and you will not go wrong.

[macaroonie]

These are model 4301 studio monitor. Very easy to drive and they sound super in a small room. Performance beyond their size. Quite rare though. The domestic version was L19. 4401 was good too but smaller. ( L15 )
Alternatively if you can build good boxes then you will have to search for the drivers. Some people here have a huge stock of old drive units hidden away in cupboards and under beds.
If you want to reproduce an older design the crossover information is available on this site and you will get all kinds of help on the way - all you have to do is ask.
Be aware that the old hochtoner are quite rare and many have been deleted by the factory.
Try putting a general question into the DIY section of this forum, I am sure you will be stunned at the information that comes back to you.
Good luck.

[Wandler]

Thanks very much,Macaroonie for your kind advice!

So I'm looking foreward to find one of the models you mentioned (As I was unlucky in beeing stolen from my former speakers, I should be lucky now in getting the "new" ones :D)!

Is there, by accident, somebody in this forum, who knows of a lonley, unused, unhappy pair of 4301, which want do do their perfect job in a cosy, esteemed atmosphere ;) ??

Greetings

Wandler

[Wandler]

Thanks very much,Macaroonie for your kind advice!

So I'm looking foreward to find one of the models you mentioned (As I was unlucky in beeing stolen from my former speakers, I should be lucky now in getting the "new" ones :D)!

Is there, by accident, somebody in this forum, who knows of a lonley, unused, unhappy pair of 4301, which want do do their perfect job in a cosy, esteemed atmosphere ;) ??

Greetings

Wandler

[Wandler]

While sending the former post, I was asked to re-login and so it was sent twice???

[macaroonie]

L16 decade in France e bay. Clik the linkhttp://cgi.ebay.fr/JBL-enceintes-VINTAGE-1970-DECADE-16-susp-neuves-ALNICO_W0QQitemZ260177241895QQihZ016QQcategoryZ137 943QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[macaroonie]

http://cgi.ebay.de/JBL-DECADE-16-NUSSBRAUN-FUNIERT-ZUSTAND-GUT-GEPRUFT_W0QQitemZ130169464549QQihZ003QQcategoryZ22 003QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Wandler]

Thanks again macaroonie!

I have seen the german decade 16's, but I was not shure, if they match my amp with its 13 w RMS. I have heard, that too "big" speakers "suck" too strongly and might even cause some breaks???
Is this true? :blink:
What price would you suggest would be a good deal?

[macaroonie]

E 200 - 225 Die Deutsche E bay item bist perfekt

[ratitifb]

http://cgi.ebay.de/JBL-DECADE-16-NUSSBRAUN-FUNIERT-ZUSTAND-GUT-GEPRUFT_W0QQitemZ130169464549QQihZ003QQcategoryZ22 003QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

the foam is on the wrong side ...:blink:

[Wandler]

:cheers: Macaroonie,
I think, the german ones, as they are presented perfectly and the obvious condition is really beautyful, will go higher than the french ones. People might think at the end of the french auction "I will wait for the german ones, anyway they look better".
Und jetzt frage ich Dich: Ist Deine Preisempfehlung typisch Schottisch? :)

Cheers! (As Austria is quite close to Bavaria, we are somehow also beer-infected).

Hi, ratitifb,
which foam where??? - I'm not an expert. :blink: For me they look fabulous.
Thanks anyway for telling ...

[BMWCCA]

There must be an Orange County in Austria, too! :(

In case you haven't figured it out, the foam surround on the Low Frequency cone has been applied to the front of the cone. They originally came with the foam attached to the back side of the woofer. Many shops do it this wrong way and it is fodder for plenty of jokes on this site. Some shops even claim it is "correct" to do it this way. We know it's certainly a lot easier to do it this way! ;)

It's hard to tell from the lousy pictures in the French auction but they look a lot like either the wrong size surrounds or possibly on the wrong side, too. Such are the frustrations of buying old speakers.

[macaroonie]

Do not worry about the foam it is a cosmetic issue and will not damage the sound. The german set look very clean, for that age they have been looked after well. The grille covers show no abrasion or tears ---- no kids or cats.
They are in Lubeck in DDR is that far for you to go.
For your size of room these are ideal.

[macaroonie]

Just so that you understand, the foam at the edge of the bass speaker has been replaced. This is normal for a speaker of this age. In the picture the piece with the arrow is factory fitted to the back of the cone. The speakers in Germany have had them fitted the lazy way on the front of the cone.
In fairness the repair has been done neatly and should not cause any problems.
If you search the web you will see these selling in the US for $ 100 or less depending on condition. There were many more of these sold there therefore the price reflects that. It is unlikely that you can profitably buy from a US auction and ship to Austria. The packing and shipping alone will most likely cost more than the speakers.
Having said that why dont you put a Want To Buy advert in the product marketplace in this forum. At least the folks here can be trusted and someone on the east coast might just come up with something for you

[BMWCCA]

It's somewhat disingenuous to suggest there's nothing wrong with applying the new surround to the "wrong" side. Even JBL (who do not sell surrounds or recommend using them but instead spec re-coning as the correct repair) say the only justification for such a positioning is to attempt to correct for spider sagging. Regardless, it is both implied and measurable that applying the surround to the wrong side will effect the position of the motor components. If there is no sagging, then the position will be incorrect. If there was sagging, conventional wisdom is that it's best to re-cone.

I'll let sharper minds than mine debate the issues but suffice it to say any JBL re-surrounded on the incorrect side should be worth less and could have compromised performance. Anyone argue that statement?

My logical mind suggests the bond to the cone might also not be as strong since the natural elasticity of the surround material tends to push it against the cone from the back, but would tend to pull away from the glue bond when applied to the front. I guess I'd just rather have it done right, regardless. That's why I'm doing my own.

[Wandler]

Thans for the explanations - I'm learning!

BMWCCA:


There must be an Orange County in Austria, too!

Is this an american joke for the ignorance of happygolucky westcoasters? (learning again...)


It's hard to tell from the lousy pictures in the French auction but they look a lot like either the wrong size surrounds or possibly on the wrong side, too. Such are the frustrations of buying old speakers.
I did contact the french seller. He told me, there are new sikken and they were changed professionally, the foam is fixed from the inside (he knew about "the easyer way"). He said, accustically they are in perfect condition and optical they are very good for their age (no big scratches or coffeerings or even damaged corners on the wood, the grill covers are clean without holes or other damages).The speakers have succseeding serials!
He did offer them also in a local add-paper for 250 Euro and would only sell them on ebay when the price gets higher there. But he would give them to me including transport-costs for that price ...

Macaroonie:

They are in Lubeck in DDR is that far for you to go.

Lübeck is 1000km from Vienna - only the petrol for my car would cost me 150 €!
I did ask also the german seller what the shipping costs are - he answered: 40 €.
I did als contact members of the forum here (after you said i shall look for 4301's) and shipping from America to Austria costs about 250$!!!
So I should stay on the european market.

Now I have the choice: make a quick decision for the french ones or wait for the german auction (5 more days they are on 100 € already) or wait for a perhaps cheaper solution to come.
Actually I like the first possibility best. The man made a good, sincere impression to me (we talked about 15 minutes) and the other solutions look like much more invested time for me (I think in the meantime I earn more by doing my work than I could save!).

What do the experts say? :hmm:

[macaroonie]

You are making progress. Have the French guy send you some better pics if he will. If possible have him take pics of the drivers tested with an ohm meter.
All in all it sounds like an ok deal if they are clean and tidy. You might want to argue the price a little with him though say 225E all in. Bet he goes for that.


Orange County is a speaker repair place in Kah Lee Fohn Ya ( a place run by an Austrian ) where they have been known to re foam on the front side of the cone. This upsets a lot of the folks here. It is not factory method.

[SEAWOLF97]

My logical mind suggests the bond to the cone might also not be as strong since the natural elasticity of the surround material tends to push it against the cone from the back, but would tend to pull away from the glue bond when applied to the front.

I also have always thought this too..and I dont know why it is described as easier to put edge on the front, its harder for me. (unless you have the wrong foam)

small speaker recommendations ???? L-26 is outstanding in my book, and a bargain at going prices.

[Wandler]

L 26 - Oh God, the next model to lean something about ...;)

Well, at the moment there are only LX - models for sale in german and austrian epay beside the Decade 16, so I rather stick to that model.

[SEAWOLF97]

L 26 - Oh God, the next model to lean something about ...;)

very similar to 4301
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-JBL-L-26-L26-speakers-original-packing-mint_W0QQitemZ130165451007QQihZ003QQcategoryZ50597 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Wandler]

Thanks Seawolf,
than the L 26 also would harmonise well with my SCOTT 222.

[SEAWOLF97]

Thanks Seawolf,
than the L 26 also would harmonise well with my SCOTT 222.

very ez to drive...and from what I've read and heard - one of the nicest little 2 way consumer JBL's made....and there were so many produced that you can usually pick up a decent pair for $125-$175US.

The selling points on them are nice size/weight/price and superb imaging ...many feel that they are superior to the 3 way L-36.

[hjames]

very ez to drive...and from what I've read and heard - one of the nicest little 2 way consumer JBL's made....and there were so many produced that you can usually pick up a decent pair for $125-$175US.

The selling points on them are nice size/weight/price and superb imaging ...many feel that they are superior to the 3 way L-36.

You behave!:)
I had my L36s for years - and only replaced them when I fell over some big boxy things 2 years ago ...

[SEAWOLF97]

You behave!:)
I had my L36s for years - and only replaced them when I fell over some big boxy things 2 years ago ...

Well Now , HJ.............I've had both 26 and 36 at the same time...the L26 is smoother and the mid on the L36 was terrible.(they share same LF and HF) think the problem was the crossover...have sold both pairs of L36s , but still have the 26's (and no, they arent for sale)

(you are exactly 50 posts up on me...so you must be right) ;)

[macaroonie]

You are in the US where such are readily available. If you have any doubt have a look at German and French E bay or UK for that matter. Vintage products are very thin on the ground. I sold JBL for 20 plus years and I can assure you that very few ever came back for trade in or appeared in the classifieds. People bought em and kept em. Second, Wandler has had a look at shipping L19s from the US and came up with $250. L26's would be more.
I just bought 2 x 2105s from Duanage and the shipping on them was $40.
It just does not stack up.
Second, Wandler has a small room 13m which in your language is 10ft x 13 ft.
Probably a bedroom with all that goes with that.
He is in the L 19 15 40 46 or pro versions dont you think.
Third, I have a pair of 26s and would not let them go for less than £250 which is euro 375 plus shipping to Austria.
Lets do it another way -- just a suggestion -- since he can build the boxes who has a pair of clean bass drivers ( 125 or 127 ). I have a pair of admitedly wretched le25 ( no foam and bumped dome ) that he can have for nada.
Guido can russle up some x/o as required from the scraps he takes out of those 4xxxx monitors.
C'mon gang lets help the fellah:)

[Wandler]

Macaroonie ... what shall I say :nutz:

It is not so, that I have nothing else to do. But building a very good pair of speakers would be a really exciting experience (the last ones I made, is 40 Jears ago - I was 10 and wanted my own stereo ...they would be vintage now;)).
I made a celtic harp, restored guitars and a Year ago I made a High End turntable wall mounted base for a friend who is in that business and he said it's the best one he knows! I talked to him about building speakers (he's technican and has all measurement tools and so) but it is very difficult to make a project with him, he's a "never has time and always too late" type.

So you really touched an old dream of mine, and the moment I read:


C'mon gang lets help the fellah

I knew I want to build them now!!! Thanks!

I'm leaving now for the weekend (with no internet) and will be back in the forum on monday to concretize that plan.

Nice weekend, fellas

[macaroonie]

As of now Wandler is in the DIY forum.:applaud: