Usher D2 "clone" Project gone OPEN BAFFLE!!!

[ChopsMX5]

I was originally going to build an Usher Audio D2 clone, and build these OB's just as a temp thing to get the Usher 15HM drivers run in and out of my cramped bedroom. However, now that I've been listening to them since last night and all day today, I think I'm going to can the D2 clone idea and keep these open baffles. They sound that good!

I ran the idea across several people on various forums and they swore that running horns with open baffles would never work out. Some even said that the Altec 511B horns would not work in an MTM design. Well I have news for them. :p

Last night once I got them up and running playing fullrange and spent about 10 minutes doing some quick tweaking, a few things were quite apparent with these beasts (more of which I noticed today)...

1) For one, the imaging, soundstaging and depth are something in the order of very, very good, properly placed bookshelf speakers. The imaging in darn near pin-point, the soundstage is well beyond the walls of the room and the depth gets right up in your face and as far back as several meters behind the speakers and back wall. VERY 3-dimentional.

2) The uniformity of sound emitted from these speakers while standing, sitting, squatting and walking around the room is amazing. The tonallity doesn't change! As long as I'm as far back as the listening position (about 9' away) or further and I move all around, walking from the left wall to the right wall, sitting or standing, the sound remains the same. These speakers have a huge sweet spot! This also includes about 95% of imaging, soundstaging and depth and any of those locations.

3) Super sensitivity OB's! Theoretically, these OB's should be 98dB efficient at 1W/1M (wired parallel into 4 ohms each channel) or maybe slightly less due to being in OB's. I thought for sure the gains would remain the same between these and the Klipsch Cornwalls they replaced (also 98dB @ 1W/1M). I can honestly say that they are NOT. These things have to be somewhere around 101+dB, if not more. They are considerably more sensitive than the Cornwalls.

4) Power and dynamics are in abundance! From the quietest passages to the loudest, these things put it out without issue. There's just a huge wall of sound that slams into the room. Playing Telarc's "Trumpet Spectacular" with the large orchestra seems very real. The most real I have ever witnessed in my room. I felt like I was back in orchestra myself when I used to play 1st chair bass. BTW, the most power I saw going into these monsters was just under 4 watts with full pipe organ, orchestra and drum roll on the last chord of the last track. I would have to say it was right around the actual volume level as actually being there durring the live performance (not that I was there or anything, but I know how loud a recital can get).

5) A full, wide-range sound. These Usher 15HM drivers are not meant for OB use as their Qts is 0.30. Without any EQ at all, they roll off pretty sharp after 50Hz or so, but with a little EQ added into the mix, I'm getting strong, usable output down into the low to mid-30Hz range easily, maybe even touching into the high 20's. Bass is very clean, very tight and very "real" with these drivers in OB's. I'm loving this!

6) Lastly, if anyone on here knew anything about my dipole subwoofer project several years ago, I kept remarking on how difficult it was to see any kind of cone movement from the drivers with moderate to loud volumes with low frequencies. The same is true with these new OB's! Like I said, they're playing fullrange right now, so they're getting the entire range of sound and handling it all with great ease. The reason I think they move so little is because they use such little power, which is obvioulsy nothing to them. The simple explination is that they are hardly doing any work to produce lots of loud, clean sound into the room.

The absolute max wattage I've seen go into them now has been almost 10 watts, and that was near the point of being insanely too loud. The bass output at that kind of volume is just unreal for these OB's. You can definately feel and hear it, and you can also hear all the detail in that bass. That's the magical beauty of OB (dipole) bass!!!

Anyway, enough flapping of the gums. I know you all want to see some pictures, so here they are! Enjoy and please feel free to ask many questions. :D

http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/v2/p607415402-4.jpg

http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/v2/p893600337-4.jpg

http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/v2/p838714637-4.jpg

http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/v2/p742559514-4.jpg

http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/v2/p910538820-4.jpg

[A9X]

I like your speakers. Congrats.

My big project that was going to be a complex sealed box jobbie now looks like it'll be OB. I've been a die hard hornie and HE driver guy for a while and the OB's may finally remove the issues I've had with both.

If you haven't seen these threads on diyaudio.com , you may enjoy. The first is very long but there is a ton of great info in there. The second is far more pragmatic.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=100392&perpage=50&pagenumber=1
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=110435&perpage=50&pagenumber=1

This article by Martin King really started me thinking along the OB lines.
http://www.quarter-wave.com/Project07/Project07.html

So, I expect mine to look similar to yours, but with 4 Eminence A15 or B15 drivers/side. Still experimenting with the mids and up but may go with the GPA coaxes. Hell of a lot easier to build than a complex sealed multiway enclosure.

[Robh3606]

OB:hmm:

That's something I have not tried. Those are big boys!! Glad you are enjoying them. So what are you planing on for the surrounds?? Scalled down version??

Rob:)

[4313B]

Neato! :)

[Hoerninger]

Congratulation for your tall OB! I would like to listen to it.

I do second the good sound experience of an OB design. It is amazing how clear and resonance free deep tones will be reproduced, even clearer than with a good bass horn.

For the very low notes there must be an increase of cone excursion due to the acoustic short cut (?, open baffel). So a speaker with a large excursion is helpful for deep and high sound pressures.

May be two A1501AL from the EVEREST II with 25,4 mm peak-to-peak linear excursion capability? :screwy: ...
___________
Peter

[Cyclotronguy]

Would you mind sharing crossover information?

Cyclotronguy

[JBL 4645]

ChopsMX5

Interesting project you’ve got running there. I’ve stumbled onto this before over on the Linkwitz lab site last year.

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/orion_ec.htm (http://www.linkwitzlab.com/orion_ec.htm)

You need a matching one now for the centre channel and place the screen in front of the loudspeaker array just like the cinema.

[ChopsMX5]

A9X, thanks! I've been to all 3 of those links before. That first one is a huge thread... 52 pages! It'll take me a while to read through that one. LOL

I hope you share your OB project with us when you get it done.



Robh3606, you should try some OB's sometime. You just might like them. ;) I'm not going to be doing anything to the surrounds. What I have for my sides and rears do just fine, and they're small. Now if I had a larger room, then I would probably do something similar to these for them.



Hoerninger, I've got a decent DIY sub to take care of those very low notes. However, even when I do have the sub on, I've been letting the OB's still play fullrange. They blend in seamlessly this way and also add to the impact and punchiness of the sub (which the sub is crossed over at 50Hz). This works out very well.



Cyclotronguy, I'm still using my Rane AC22B active crossover as I was with the old loudspeakers. I have the OB's woofers crossed over at 800Hz to the horns. After doing some more level corrections and woofer delay tweaks tonight after work, I've got these things really singing at the 800Hz x-over point. The midrange quality coming from these Usher 15HM drivers are simply stunning and life-like.



JBL 4645, it would be nice to put the L/C/R channels behind the screen but I just don't have the space to do that in my room. :(

[ChopsMX5]

Hmm... I thought for sure this thread would have sparked a bit more interest on this forum, but apparently not. Oh well. :blink:

[4313B]

I asked G.T. if there were any plans to make a JBL version and he said no but that he personally thought it could be pretty cool. They would have to design the transducers specifically for the task.

Who knows, maybe Zilch can throw a pair together using his waveguides and a pair of 2212's or something.

[Hoerninger]

... a bit more interest on this forum, but apparently not. Oh well. :blink:
Charles,

you need not to be dissapointed, 358 views to 9 replies within a fortnight in this forum is really not bad. And your pictures are highly appreciated for sure.

Another thought about OB:
One of its advantages is the "eight" polar pattern how it can easyly be obtained with electrostatic speakers. In this way room resonances are far less activated. I wonder how this can be achieved with horn drivers: One to the front and one to the back close together with invers polarity ... :blink:
Does this mean
(GT ... They (JBL) would have to design the transducers specifically for the task.?
___________
Peter

[ChopsMX5]

I asked G.T. if there were any plans to make a JBL version and he said no but that he personally thought it could be pretty cool. They would have to design the transducers specifically for the task.

Who knows, maybe Zilch can throw a pair together using his waveguides and a pair of 2212's or something.

As long as JBL made the drivers with a high-ish Qts, low Fs, kept them efficient and allowed them to extend up to 2kHz or so, they would have a killer driver on their hands for OB, and I'm sure people would be buying them up like crazy.

I can't remember right off hand with the efficiency that OB's have due to air velocity or something, but my drivers are 95dB each, wired in parallel to 4 ohms, that's now up to at least 101dB. When you add that into the benefits of the OB design, I could be up somewhere like 104dB or so, maybe more. All I know is that these things are very, very efficient, can be cranked to extremely loud levels, and the drivers just barely move.

The most power I have dumped into these things without nearly blowing myself out of the room, or blowing my own ears has been a peak of 12 watts!

[ChopsMX5]

Charles,

you need not to be dissapointed, 358 views to 9 replies within a fortnight in this forum is really not bad. And your pictures are highly appreciated for sure.

Another thought about OB:
One of its advantages is the "eight" polar pattern how it can easyly be obtained with electrostatic speakers. In this way room resonances are far less activated. I wonder how this can be achieved with horn drivers: One to the front and one to the back close together with invers polarity ... :blink:
Does this mean ?
___________
Peter


Yeah, I don't know how you would get a polar pattern out of a horn. But from listeing to these speakers for the last few weeks, I'm not sure you have to.

I've now got the xover point at 1kHz and these speakers sound excellent. The midrange on down to the lowest limits is very open, natural, clean and 3D! The Altec horns have also improved since they are not playing down to 500-600Hz like I used to have them. So in turn, they are more open and 3D as well. The horns and OBs blend in perfectly together. Maybe it has something to do with them being in the MTM configuration also. I don't know but I love it! :D

[ChopsMX5]

This just in... I used SynRTA software today on my dipoles to see how they measure up.

A little about the setup:

This is both channels driven, SPL was about +20dB above the noise floor (about 85dB) at my listening position, the mic used is the Behringer ECM8000 mounted to a sturdy mic stand and boom, the mic preamp is a dbx 760X, and the soundcard is a SoundBlaster Audigy2 Platinum. Pink Noise was provided by my Behringer DEQ1024.

There's a peak around 900Hz that I can't seem to do anything with. And there's a dip around 15kHz that doesn't want to go away either.

I'll run a couple more tests in a little while of just the woofers by themselves, then the horns by themselves and see what happens then.

BTW, the EQ was left were I set it by ear. Not too far off I guess.

Red is EQ'ed
Green is not EQ'ed

http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p432796391-5.jpg

[4313B]

There's a peak around 900Hz that I can't seem to do anything with.Pad the HF so it is the same sensitivity as the LF (use an L-Pad). Remove any other crossover elements. Remove any EQ. Parallel the leads to both the HF and LF (you're hooking all the drivers up in parallel to one amp with an L-Pad on the HF to get its sensitivity down to the LF). Run your curve with the mic a meter away from the horn. Use very little power so you don't blow up your HF. Post the resulting picture.

[grumpy]

In addition to checking for excess overlap (I presume), a minor consideration
is that the Behringer mic is probably not flat, but useful enough for relative
comparisons (they often have a +3dB hump in the 2-10 KHz area). Nice
project. :)

-grumpy

[ChopsMX5]

Well here's the latest and greatest. Same setup as before, but this time with SynRTA's own pink noise.

http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/v2/p237315834-5.jpg

[4313B]

Try setting your acoustic crossover frequency at 900 Hz.

[ChopsMX5]

Why?

[grumpy]

Looks like this driver (15HM) has a typical bit of lumpiness in the response
around/above 1KHz... depending on the electronic crossover alone to blend
the drivers isn't guaranteed to work well.

3rd harmonic also appears to rise quickly above 900Hz.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/296-630.pdf

Seems like reasonable advice to me. :) -grumpy

[ChopsMX5]

Alright, I bumped the xover back to 900Hz. I haven't had a chance to run any tests, but things still sound great, so it definately didn't hurt. Thanks for the tip guys! ;)


Also, I keep forgetting to mention, eventhough the 15HM drivers are rated at 95dB, the ones I got were actually tested at 97, 97, 97.4 and 96.4dB. This would help explain the much more than expected efficiency that I'm getting out these. And as a note, I put both 97dB drivers together and both 96.4 and 97.4dB drivers together to get them as closely matched as possible.

[JBL 4645]

A9X, thanks! I've been to all 3 of those links before. That first one is a huge thread... 52 pages! It'll take me a while to read through that one. LOL

I hope you share your OB project with us when you get it done.



Robh3606, you should try some OB's sometime. You just might like them. ;) I'm not going to be doing anything to the surrounds. What I have for my sides and rears do just fine, and they're small. Now if I had a larger room, then I would probably do something similar to these for them.



Hoerninger, I've got a decent DIY sub to take care of those very low notes. However, even when I do have the sub on, I've been letting the OB's still play fullrange. They blend in seamlessly this way and also add to the impact and punchiness of the sub (which the sub is crossed over at 50Hz). This works out very well.



Cyclotronguy, I'm still using my Rane AC22B active crossover as I was with the old loudspeakers. I have the OB's woofers crossed over at 800Hz to the horns. After doing some more level corrections and woofer delay tweaks tonight after work, I've got these things really singing at the 800Hz x-over point. The midrange quality coming from these Usher 15HM drivers are simply stunning and life-like.



JBL 4645, it would be nice to put the L/C/R channels behind the screen but I just don't have the space to do that in my room. :(

Yes you do you’ve got amble space to place a third one between the two there’s not much depth to these speakers and third one, is so choice.:p

[ChopsMX5]

Yes you do you’ve got amble space to place a third one between the two there’s not much depth to these speakers and third one, is so choice.:p

Umm... No I don't.

[JBL 4645]

Umm... No I don't.

ChopsMX5

I think your right I just looked at the first page and the width of the room looks to be the same as mine so I apologise. I was only trying to give you support on the project to build a third because it sounds interesting that the bass cone has very little movement. This is cursed by having, them in a free space or openness and placed just in baffle? I’ve had very little experience with this type of design.

[ChopsMX5]

ChopsMX5

I think your right I just looked at the first page and the width of the room looks to be the same as mine so I apologise. I was only trying to give you support on the project to build a third because it sounds interesting that the bass cone has very little movement. This is cursed by having, them in a free space or openness and placed just in baffle? I’ve had very little experience with this type of design.

There's obviously some misunderstanding here going on here.

You origianlly said to build the center channel and put all 3 front channels BEHIND the projection screen. That's where I said I wouldn't have room, because that would push the screen nearly 3' out into the room.

But yes, I DO have room to build a matching OB'ed center channel, which is exactly what I plan on doing eventually. However, it will have only a single Usher 15HM driver, not two. The reason being that I need to save room on either side of the center channel for sub(s).

[ChopsMX5]

http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p219896112-5.jpg

http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p287784736-5.jpg

Well, all I can say so far is that I have a few mixed feelings about the latest tweaks.

(A) & (D) The EQ settings from a few days ago after first batch of measurements, all done at the listening position.

(B) & (E) The EQ settings after measuring the left channel only and getting a pretty flat response @ 1 meter.

(C) & (F) The EQ settings after measuring both channels at the listening position, mostly leaving everything from 1.25kHz on up untouched after the "B" settings.

First, the system sounds brighter now than it did a few days ago! That doesn't make much sense to me. You can clearly see that I knocked the top-end back quite a bit. It even shows on the graphs. :confused:

Second, there's something fishy going on in the midrange now as the horns are starting to sound like "horns" again. IOW, there's a bit of honkiness going on which wasn't there before. In fact, I was able to completely get rid of it a few days ago. I think that might be that peak around 900Hz, which also happens to be the new xover frequency.

Third, the upper-bass or lower-midrange (whichever you want to call it) it a little thicker sounding now. Almost conjested with some music. There's excellent, tight "kick" to the bass, but sometimes seems a bit much. However, overall low bass extension is excellent. In fact, I don't know if it's because these drivers are breaking in still or what, but they seem to be extending a little deeper now than a few days ago. If you look at graph "F", it kind of shows this. The roll-off isn't as steep as it was before.

So at this point, the current tune is kind of iffy to me. It will be a couple of days or so until I can sit down and do some more listening... or testing for that matter.

[ChopsMX5]

OOPS!

I just noticed that I inserted the wrong shot for "Graph E". This is the one that's supposed to be there...

http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p86954308-5.jpg

[Robh3606]

That EQ is really a bit heavy handed. That much is not helping you. Those +10-12 db bands are killing any headroom you have above your average level. If your running with a 100 watt amp you just lost 10dB of headroom right where you need it most in the 40-80Hz band. In effect you are working at 10 watts.

Any bass drum hits will clip your amp. That could be the congestion you are hearing. Can you do more cut that boost. Anything over 6db of boost which cuts you headroom to 25% of what you would have without should be avoided.

Try reversing the phase on the compresion driver. It may kill the peak, could could also give you a hole but see what sounds best.

Isn't this an HT set up?? If so bring your subs on line and use them to fill in the last 2 1/2 octaves. That way you can avoid the most agressive use of the EQ

Rob:)

[ChopsMX5]

That EQ is really a bit heavy handed. That much is not helping you. Those +10-12 db bands are killing any headroom you have above your average level. If your running with a 100 watt amp you just lost 10dB of headroom right where you need it most in the 40-80Hz band. In effect you are working at 10 watts.

Any bass drum hits will clip your amp. That could be the congestion you are hearing. Can you do more cut that boost. Anything over 6db of boost which cuts you headroom to 25% of what you would have without should be avoided.

Try reversing the phase on the compresion driver. It may kill the peak, could could also give you a hole but see what sounds best.

Isn't this an HT set up?? If so bring your subs on line and use them to fill in the last 2 1/2 octaves. That way you can avoid the most agressive use of the EQ

Rob:)

It has to be "heavy handed" as you put it to overcome the short comings of the small-ish baffles and drivers not meant for open baffle use. So with that in mind, it is helping me.

And trust me, I'm not hurting for headroom, even with all that boost. These speakers are somewhere in the neighborhood of 104dB @ 1W/1M, if not a little more. The amp powering the woofers offers up 170 x 2 @ 4 ohms, which is what these drivers are wired to. The absolute most power I have seen going into these drivers so far is almost 14 watts, and that was getting close to 110dB at the listening position 12' away. That is a lot louder than I normally play my system.

The congestion I'm getting is most likely from that large bump at 63Hz and 80Hz on the EQ. If I back those off a few dB, I'm sure things will snap into place.

My Rane xover has adjustable woofer delay, so the next chance I get, I'll play around a bit with that with SynRTA as well as possibly reverse the polarity of the horns. Hopefully, that will sovle a couple of those issues around the xover freq.

Yes, this is my HT setup, but its main roll is 2-channel stereo. The other 5.1 channels are just a bonus and ONLY for movies. That includes the subwoofer for the moment. Don't get me wrong, my sub sounds great with music, but I'd rather get these OB's sounding their best fullrange if possible, and without the sub. ;)

[Robh3606]

These speakers are somewhere in the neighborhood of 104dB @ 1W/1M, if not a little more.

How are you getting those numbers?? The woofers are 95db figure 98db for 2. If the one you got were 97 figure 100db in the lower midband.

Rob:)

[ChopsMX5]

How are you getting those numbers?? The woofers are 95db figure 98db for 2. If the one you got were 97 figure 100db in the lower midband.

Rob:)

Well, considering I had to drop the gains back on the woofers about -7dB from what they were with the 98dB sensitive Klipsch Cornwalls, and still add about another +4dB of gain to the horns to match up to the Usher woofers, they're quite a bit more efficient than 100dB.

And at that 110dB SPL I was talking about, that 14 watts was the peaks from bass drums that got up close to 114dB. When running at a constant 110dB, the amp was peaking around 3 watts rms.

Also, when I used to hit those kind of SPL with the Klipsch/Altec combo, the master volume on my receiver was around the -12dB mark. Now to reach that same SPL, the master volume is down at the -20dB mark.

So in short, I've knocked back the output gains on the xover for both the woofers and horns, and am reaching the same SPL's at lover volume settings.

That's how I'm coming up with the 104dB (or more) at 1W/1M. It kind of adds up that way. Besides, I have no earthly reason to make any of this up.

[ChopsMX5]

I've been at it again today, this time for several hours. I started completely from scratch, putting the xover and EQ settings to "zero" so to speak. I turned the horns off and just played with the xover settings on the Ushers only. Once I got them where I wanted them with the proper xover point, I turned them off and had a go with the horns. I did the same with them minus the xover point. Once I got their levels just right, I turned the Ushers back on and tweaked with the woofer delay settings until everything was blending as close to perfect as I could get them.

You know, I remember reading somewhere that if you use and adjust a crossover properly (xover point, levels, delay), it can have a similar effect as using a parametric EQ. After spending a couple hours alone simply adjusting the xover, I now see how this is completely possible! Without even touching the EQ, I was able to get a pretty decent flat response from 100Hz all the way up to 10kHz and completely eliminating that annoying peak around 1kHz I had before.

So back to tuning... Once I got everything sounding as good as possible with JUST the xover, I started work on the EQ. With about an hour of tweaking, the EQ itself looks totally different and civilized compared to before, as does the curve on the SynRTA graph.

http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p413822544-5.jpg

http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p32790171-5.jpg


And just a couple pics of the RTA setup...

http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p68140791-5.jpg

http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p391365910-5.jpg

[ChopsMX5]

I've got a couple updates. Not that anyone cares (which is apparently quite obvious).

1) I just ordered a Behringer DCX2496 digital xover which I will be using on the front three channels. At the same time, I ordered an AudioSource AMP100 which I will be using to bi-amp the center channel (one channel for the woofer, one channel for the horn).

2) I added some LED rope lights to the backs of the OB's and to the bottom of the couch and took a few night shots.

http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p699820633-5.jpg

http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p86977584-4.jpg

http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p211736042-4.jpg

http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p37488523-4.jpg

http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p230387110-4.jpg

http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p155447794-4.jpg

[Ian Mackenzie]

Good work Chops.

Looking back at earlier posts you now apear to be answering your own questions. This is often the case with DIY.:)

Ian

[tomee]

Nice project! I don't have the room to try an open baffle but it looks interesting. In theory the wider the OB the lower it will go, but maybe there is an optimum width that works with room gain, and going wider doesn't work well at all? You could experiment with adding 1 foot 'wings' onto either side of the baffle to make the OB work down into lower frequencies and see if you need less EQ boost.

I'd also add that with 4 of those woofers in that room it's no wonder you're not seeing any cone motion! Put them on an outdoor open stage and try to get 100 dB out at 100 feet away and watch the cones fly out of the baskets on the first low bass note! You're using an OB in a 'safe' location for sure.

Did you try the woofer in a ported box at all?

Funny thing is that before I came across this thread I was looking at those Usher 15's in the PartsExpress catalog and wondering what they would be like in a large format 2-way. Usher woofer with a 4" Selenium compression driver and one of the constant directivity horns all in a 5 cubic foot box. But in the end day dreaming is free but DIY isn't...;)

[clmrt]

Some nice tube amps will give you the same effect...:D

Oh - and,

[louped garouv]

I've got a couple updates. Not that anyone cares (which is apparently quite obvious).




I've been following...

:)

nothing to contribute tho'

[Joe Alesi]

I've got a couple updates. Not that anyone cares (which is apparently quite obvious).



Hello Chops,

Sorry to hear about the negativity:(, but I think it is an intersting project and a well presented thread with pics, measuremts, etc...as evidenced by the 1500 odd views-.:bouncy::bouncy::bouncy:

Keep it up- we are interested.

[duaneage]

Many years ago speakerbuilder magazine featured a lrge OB system. They presented it with 4 woofers IIRC and got bass to 40 hz out of it. The system was very ambient and measuring the output was a bit difficult because the sound went everywhere. The designers concluded that even though it measured rough it sounded pretty darn good, and after a while they preferred it to sealed or vented systems.

[ChopsMX5]

Alright, sorry guys. I guess I was jumping the gun a bit there. I was having a not-so-good day that day and it kind of trickled onto the net.

Anyway, the DCX2496 came in, I installed it, connected the RS-232 cable, got my laptop out, turned it on and it wouldn't boot into Windows! :banghead: I already had the Behringer software installed and had some setting already made, but obviously couldn't load them at all. The laptop is about 4 years old, and the HD has been giving me a little trouble over the past year or so, so it was only a matter of time.

So with a dead laptop, I had no choice but to enter everything manually. It was really quite simple to do and I had it up and running within minutes. I first set the xover to L-R48 slopes at 754Hz. From there, I adjusted the I/O gains by ear so the Ushers and Altecs blended nicely together. After that, I pulled out my Behringer ECM-8000 mic, plugged it into the xover, placed the mic at my listening position, and let the auto calibration do its thing for the delay. Finally, after all of that was out of the way, I added HP (curves at -12dB slopes) and LP (curves at -6dB slopes) to the EQ section of the DCX similar to those of my old DEQ1024.


Now a few words on the sound...

First thing I noticed is that the signal is very clean and quiet, definately a step up fromt the Rane/DEQ setup. The second thing I noticed is that the DCX is more open and clear sounding.

One odd thing about the DCX is that when it did the auto calibration for delay, it left the LP outputs alone and delayed the horns instead! That is the exact reverse of what should be done (since the horn driver's motor is nearly 9" behind the woofer's motor), but it certainly sounds much better this way. The sound is very coheirent and "there" with this delay.

Tomorrow I'll be working the center channel into the the last set of I/O's of the DCX and tuning that one up. Speaking of which, I just ordered an Usher 15PA driver for the center channel as well. Since it seems that Parts Express is out of the HM's, plus the fact that I'll be dealing with a much smaller baffle with the center channel, the higher Qts of the 15PA should work a little better.


Anyway, here's a few pics...
http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p750493509-4.jpg

http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p861627806-4.jpg

http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p799478674-4.jpg

http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p887564221-4.jpg

[ChopsMX5]

Today I got the center channel worked into the DCX. I first set the levels between the woofer and horn by ear, then adjusted the overall level to that of the main channels. From there, I tweaked it a tad by adding just a little bit of a HP boost at 8.87kHz, the same as the mains, but not as much boost. After that, I let my Pioneer Elite receiver do a full system "auto calibration" (levels, delay, minor EQ) for all channels.

I must say, it is sounding very impessive right now. I've played everything from red-label CDs to HDCD's to DVD-A's to even a movie (Cars). Everything, and I do mean everything sounded superb. I have never heard such seamless panning across the front three channels in my system before. Balance, levels, tonality, height... It all sounded very natural and real.

There's just the slightest bit of "thickness" or "chestiness" in the lower midrange in the center channel. I think this comes from the wrong driver being in the wrong enclosure having the wrong duty. I'm sure that once I get the Usher 15PA driver in, mounted to a small-ish OB, and angled slightly upward toward the listening position, that will all go away and it will sound just as good as the mains.

My next day off, I'll fire up SynRTA and see how things measure up. To be perfectly honest, I could probably be happy with the way it sounds right now for good, but I know that once I take some measurements, I'll have some tweaking to do which will ultimately end up with even better results. The good news is, I still have 17% processor power left in the DCX. After that, or if I need more flexability, I'll have to get the DEQ2496. I'm also planning on getting the FBQ2496 pretty soon.

[ChopsMX5]

Another update...

I got in the Usher 15PA driver a week or so ago. Today I finally had the time to install it into the center channel. With a little trimming of the original enclosure (4.23 cf sealed), I was able to shoe-horn the Usher driver in.

As you can tell by the pictures below, I am also trying a slightly different driver configuration just for the heck of it. So far, it sounds pretty darn good and matches up pretty well with the mains from about 100Hz on up. ATM, it's only tuned by ear, but seems fairly close in tonal balance with the mains.

If I can find the time on my next day off, I'll fire up SynRTA and run through the front three channels.

BTW, I also totally rewired the entire system and moved the equipment around a bit. Everything is now on the rack where it should be, IC cables are shorter, tied together and seperated as far as possible from the power cables. The power cables are also tied together. All new speaker wire was run to the front three channels as well.

Anywho, here's a few pics of how it sits right now.

http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p364017427-4.jpg

http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p925979983-4.jpg

http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p972059672-4.jpg

[clmrt]

So sweet. Really nice things going on there.

[timc]

Very nice. I seem to be comming together.

Im wondering about the horn for the center channel. Don't you get reflection issues from the floor when placed like that?


-Tim

[ChopsMX5]

The CC isn't like that anymore, it's back in its original position.

[demon]

hello charles (chopsMX5)!

i just found your thread using the search-function of the board.
i think its time to tell us how you like your system after having -hopefully- listend to it a lot.
--i sure am openbaffle friendly, very much. im thinking of an OB for myself (my thread: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=21283 ), at least for the sub-bass.
well.
or maybe tappedhorns again...
but that doesnt belong here.

anyway: NICE speakers you built! please give us some updates.
:bouncy:
cheers,
mikey

[Zilch]

His most recent 30 posts are him relentlessly hawking the components here beginning a month later.... :bomb:

[demon]

sorry. i really could have checked his profile myself...

anyway, open baffle is an interesting topic i think, we really could discuss it some more.

cheers,
mikey