(Possible) new UK recruit

[Andyoz]

If anyone recalls those lovely mint 120Ti's I bought 6 months ago, well I have kept in cantact with the seller (based in Scotland).

He's seriously looking at selling off his B&W's and seeing what JBL has to offer. Like most of us here, he likes the classics - Zep, Floyd, etc. so bottom end is important. Budget wise, I think we could be looking at S5800/S9800 territory here.

What should he be listening to in that price range and where can he actually do that in the UK. Are there any members with "serious" newish JBL's that could help out with a demo? Even the 4338 series coming out of Japan is a possible option - would that range have better bottom end kick than the S5800/9800's?

There's some good info in this thread - http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=16996&highlight=4338 and a great photo line-up (are those S5800 or S9800 in the background)

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=25636&stc=1&d=1181261085


He should be along shortly to post...

[macaroonie]

They came from Scotland did they. My god that stuff is scarce enough around here without poachers. Is that your 'Scots' bloke in the background there ? I'll find him and sort him out for exporting OUR stock.:p

[Andyoz]

Ha, ha...I thought you knew the 120Ti's were from Scotland. :D

Anyway, any ideas where he can get a listen to some S9800's or 4338?

Here's a shot of the 4338 components.

29265

[macaroonie]

that kind of info would be through Harman as in a query like have you ever sold any of these through a Scottish dealer. Then track down the dealer and then pursue the owner via them. That process might stall along the way and I am not at all sure if any of that good stuff has made it up this way. He is more than welcome to have a listen to my Backyard Boxes once they are up and running since at least they will have the flavour and signature of the JBL line. I will PM you my contact details

[Andyoz]

I think he is quite mobile with his work so anywhere in the UK is a possibility.

He mentioned a dealer in Lowestoft, Suffolk and he is going to listen to the 260's there as a starting point.

[caladois]

I know a pair of 4428 near CORK

[JBL 4645]

What is this you’re all acting like a pack of vultures? :p


The large JBL logo in the background is mine I’ll give him £40.00 for it. :D

[Andyoz]

Does anyone know much about the S4600.

http://www.harman-japan.co.jp/product/jblhome/s4600.html

It features an LE14H-4 which is a good start. I wonder if the bass tuning is anything like the 250Ti?

I also like the way the grille covers the horns as it's less imposing in a domestic situation and I think would subjectively help the impression of driver integration. Does anyone own a pair?

29372

[macaroonie]

Just less than £2000 so would be about £3000 inc shipping duty and vat

[Andyoz]

That's not much really is it?

[sa660]

Andy,

West Cork is beautiful. You are welcome to see and hear the 4428.
Caladois has the 4338 and the biggest difference in the small room are the mid-high frequency.

[Andyoz]

I may be there for work. They are proposing to convert the old Christ Church building, Cork into a live music venue.

p.s. West Cork is beautiful as I've been there a few times.

[caladois]

During his last trip in Japan, Merlin had a session with the new s4600, I believe...

[pos]

The S4600 seems to be quite impressive, in its designer's own words :
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=185958&postcount=3

Do you know anything about that LE14-4 ?

[Andyoz]

I really like the look of it and the smallish format would suite many EU homes.

At least it gets away from the current trend of 6" woofters and narrow front baffles that are favoured by many designers in this part of the world...blah :D

[WullieD20]

Given my room dimensions of approx 5 x 4 x 2.5 M, I can't help but think these 4600's should be absolutely perfect.... Must get on to Harman and find out why they're not available in the UK, er.....well they don't seem to be.:crying:

[Andyoz]

Just less than £2000 so would be about £3000 inc shipping duty and vat

That price on the website is each.

So I think the price delivered to the UK would be closer to £5-6k.

[Andyoz]

A good summary of the difference in the components used in the 4600 and the 4800 would be good. Those two seem to be the serious contenders?
--------------------------------
S4600 uses:
14" LE14H-4
2" 175Nd-3 (800Hz crossover)
3/4" 138Nd (8000Hz crossover)

35Hz - 40kHz -6dB
--------------------------------

S4800 uses:
15" 1500FE
3" 435Al (900Hz crossover)
1" 045Ti (8000Hz crossover)

55Hz - 40kHz: -6dB
--------------------------------

I find the quoted -6dB point of 35Hz for the S4600 versus 55Hz for the S4800 very interesting?

[4313B]

I find the quoted -6dB point of 35Hz for the S4600 versus 55Hz for the S4800 very interesting?Why? We've talked about the LE14 having the lowest extension of the current crop of JBL LF transducers plenty of times. It works really well with the 435BE/H4338 too. The 1500AL and 1500FE roll off more gradually and are more efficient.

[Andyoz]

I need to pay more attention, thanks for clearing that up. :)

The greater extension alone makes me think that I'd like the S4600. I really like the LE14H-3's in my 250Ti's (just listening to Motley Crue's Dr Feelgood now..)

[4313B]

The greater extension alone makes me think that I'd like the S4600.Agreed. I think it's a pretty cool system and I think it looks a bit better than the 1400 Array as well.

[Andyoz]

Yes, the Array 1400 is so ugly I passed on pair that sold on UK eBay for about 1/3 new price (they were virtually new).

Sorry to treat on old ground but am I corect in saying that Harmon Japan would not ship the S4600, etc to the UK, US, etc. ...But that Japan JBL resellers may ship them??

[4313B]

Sorry to treat on old ground but am I corect in saying that Harmon Japan would not ship the S4600, etc to the UK, US, etc. ...But the Japan JBL resellers may ship them??That is my understanding, yes. You might ask Merlin about that. These systems really should be available to all, worst case if only via web purchases.

[Andyoz]

Given my room dimensions of approx 5 x 4 x 2.5 M, I can't help but think these 4600's should be absolutely perfect....

In answer to your qestion, I would say yes.

Although don't get too hung up on the idea that big systems cannot be used in medium sized rooms. Several members here have found that they can work fine. I am also finding that as well - my current listening room is 4 x 4 x 2.5m.

Have you got any stud walls as they definitely help control room modes.

[Zilch]

I have enough difficulty landing LE14H-3s, let alone H-4s, H4600, 175nd-3 and 138nd.

So, it's work with what I CAN get for reasonable $$$, instead, in a similar "tower" configuration:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=174330#post174330

*****

Other than a bit of experimentation, I've never been tempted by the Project Array design approach; too radical for my sensibilities, such as they may be.... :p

[4313B]

I have enough difficulty landing LE14H-3s, let alone H-4s, H4600, 175nd-3 and 138nd.You really aren't supposed to be landing any of it. As discussed, these components are for replacement parts as opposed to DIY folks. JBL did away with the LCS back in the mid 80's and for good reason. Harman Japan does make certain raw components available over the counter and that's the extent of it.
So, it's work with what I CAN get for reasonable $$$, instead,
Alot of us have zero interest in the PA/SR way of doing things anymore though and prefer the JBL Consumer gear Greg is working exclusively on these days.
Other than a bit of experimentation, I've never been tempted by the Project Array design approach; too radical for my sensibilities, such as they may be.... :pWell, feel free to knock Greg's designs. He really couldn't care less and doing so has zero impact on the demand for his expertise. His personal Array system is quite simply stunning.

[merlin]

Does anyone know much about the S4600.


Hi Andy,

I recently visited Tokyo with some audio geeks who write for some disreputable US publications.

We heard the S4600 in a number of locations and were impressed each time. As a previous 4338 owner, I'd have no hesitation in recommending the S4600 - sounded superb on the end of Linn electronics.

[4313B]

I recently visited Tokyo with some audio geeks who write for some disreputable US publications.:rotfl: :applaud:

[Andyoz]

Thanks Merlin,

How would you describe the bottem end of the S4600 compared to the others in the range.

Can you recount how you go about getting these things to the UK (or point me to a relevant thread)....how much do you think it would cost to get a pair of S4600 landed and taxed here?

p.s. I heard you sold the 4338's, I had my eye on your pair myself :p

[merlin]

I've never heard a loudspeaker's bottom end - only the room they are in at the time. So it's difficult to say, but the S4600 was both fast and dynamic in all of the rooms we heard them in.

I think the 4338 is the better loudspeaker, but is far from domestically acceptable for most people. If that is unimportant, the 4338 is hugely entertaining.

Shipping from Japan is not too hard. There are companies that do it for you - one of the guys on here did that recently I believe. I have some good friends around Tokyo so visit when I can and make arrangements then. I think the companies that shop for you charge around 10% when if you are there in person you can easily save 10% making the real cost around 20%. 20% of say £5K is £1K which is a bloody good week in Tokyo including flights, accomodation, and copious quantities of audio geekery.

[richluvsound]

His personal Array system is quite simply stunning.
:applaud:


Thats next;)

Rich

[Andyoz]

Thanks Merlin,

It's a shame they aren't bringing stuff like the S4600 into the UK.

Could really haggle some feathers in the hifi industry as there's so much under-engineered dross around the £5k mark.

[hjames]

Wow, the 4338 looks quite interesting ...

http://www.jbl.com/home/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=000000000000004338&Language=ENG&Country=CN&Region=ASIA&cat=BFS&ser=LSR

[4313B]

Wow, the 4338 looks quite interesting ...Yep, the horn is second only to the E2 horn (The H9800 and 2344A are third and fourth place). I suspect a few members of this forum would prefer the L300/4333 over it or the S4600, S4800 or K2-S9800 and that's fine.

[Zilch]

Alot of us have zero interest in the PA/SR way of doing things anymore though and prefer the JBL Consumer gear Greg is working exclusively on these days.Sure, but flying to Tokyo with a $10K - $20K budget just isn't mainstream on the forum, I don't believe. We have to work DIY with what is available to us.


Well, feel free to knock Greg's designs. He really couldn't care less and doing so has zero impact on the demand for his expertise. His personal Array system is quite simply stunning.I'm not knocking any of it, of course, just stating an aesthetic preference, as others have done here. It's unlikely I'll ever see or hear the actual factory product, let alone Greg's personal system.

[4313B]

Sure, but flying to Tokyo with a $10K - $20K budget just isn't mainstream on the forum, I don't believe. We have to work DIY with what is available to us.Well the Pro stuff is definitely available to anyone from a JBL Pro Dealer so I can understand that.

Keep in mind that the 1500AL, H4338, etc. are actually bought by JBL Consumer from JBL Pro so some of you guys might be able to work that angle somehow. ;) Just a thought...

Anyway, this discussion of DIY is kind of off-topic. I'd really like to see a few forum members pick up some of these new systems. They are quite exciting.

[hjames]

Yeah, its a moot point - I can't imagine a chance to have a nice showroom demo of the 4338, the S4600, or anything similar in this area. DC's a good sized town with a few decent retailers, but if they don't even sell them in the US ... !


Sure, but flying to Tokyo with a $10K - $20K budget just isn't mainstream on the forum, It's unlikely I'll ever see or hear the actual factory product, let alone Greg's personal system.

[merlin]

It's a shame they aren't bringing stuff like the S4600 into the UK.

Could really haggle some feathers in the hifi industry as there's so much under-engineered dross around the £5k mark.

The thing is Andy, they do bring them in but charge around £10K for them - and by doing so price them out of the market. They aren't competitive at that level. Having owned the 4338, that probably would be competitive if sold in the UK at Japanese prices + tax. It's a six or seven grand speaker in terms of overall quality - ableit with a character of it's own. Aestetically the 43 series would stand no chance in the UK. I do however think the S4600 could survive but only at the right price - not if Harman UK keep trying to profiteer.

The H4338 get's a lot of good press here which I have to say surprises me a little. With the benefit of hindsight is has a definate character - but that is one that makes pretty much everything you listen to enjoyable if you replace your audiophool sensibilities with those of a music lover. I think from the JBL perspective, buying a pair of 4338, then replacing the 435al with 435be and the 1500Fe with 1500al is about the top of the tree from a musical enjoyment POV.

[Andyoz]

So basically, they are bringing them in at such inflated prices that it virtually guarantees low volume sales. This is all screwed up.

Our Scottish member "WullieD20" is visiting a JBL dealer today. He was going to quiz them about the sad state of affairs re. JBL supply in the UK.

I think there is a market here for a speaker with a "refined rocker" sort of sound around £4-5k, i.e. a speaker that actually does bass for a change.

[Robh3606]

I think there is a market here for a speaker with a "refined rocker" sort of sound around £4-5k, i.e. a speaker that actually does bass for a change.

Hello Andyoz

What is the focus on your side of the Atlantic?? Here in the US it's HT with 2 channel a distant 2nd. Many speakers are manufactured with the intent of being used in an HT set-up with a dedicated LFE channel.

Do you have a similar HT boom there or is the focus mostly 2 channel??


Rob:)

[Earl K]

http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=29381&stc=1&d=1194652185

I like the darker blue that these newer 43xx products are using .
It's a more modern look to my eyes .

Has anyone considered repainting the fronts of their 4345s ( 41s or 43s ) to this color ?

:)

[4313B]

I like the darker blue that these newer 43xx products are using.It looks pretty nice. Maybe someone can take one of their models and have the baffle color matched like Bo did with the 43xx. I was just going to take the 4338 grille in and have it color matched, then paint my baffles that color.

[dumdumboy]

Hi,

I talked to the German Harman Specialty Distributor recently.
He told me that the S4600 will be available in Germany in a couple of months.

Currently no info about pricing, dealers, brochures etc is available.

[Andyoz]

Interesting,

Out of curiosity, I emailed a contact I have at Harmon in Japan. The reply was...

"Hello again Checking if Harman group in Europe will handle the product in near future.
If so, we cannot offer the product directly.
You may hear from HCI Europe office re the availability.
If the product will not be available anywhere else, let us re-consider re the issue."

Is this a change in thinking by Harmon. Power to the People!!

[Hoerninger]

"Is this a change in thinking by Harmon."

This would be great.
___________
Peter

[grumpy]

My limited visits and experience in Japan have indicated that it's fairly rare to receive a
response that is directly negative. -grumpy

[4313B]

It features an LE14H-4 which is a good start. I wonder if the bass tuning is anything like the 250Ti?
In comparison to the LE14H-3:

The S4600 system is very nice. The LE14H-4 has 10 - 15 less grams of aquaplas making it around 91 dB. This is much more acceptable for the Japanese.