4354 - JBL Not

[saeman]

Here's some pics of my current project - My fat boy, side by side, talking refrigerators - I'm calling them 4354's for the sake of having a model number.

The project started with the desire to integrate a wood horn into my favorite pro system, the 4350. I want to thank John W. for making and selling the 2" throat walnut horns to me. For some time I have wanted to hear what a wood horn might sound like with a 2" driver hanging on it, blended in with the balance of the 4350 component array.

To this date I have not fired them up but hope to get there soon. One cabinet was complete when Ian and Clark visited a few weeks ago and now the other is done. The only task remaining is to build support cradles for the heavy 2441 hanging on the walnut horns. Maybe in a week or so I can get them singing. From there I hope to move from the temporary 3107's to charge coupled networks and then to several months of tweeking to see what they will do.

Rick

[saeman]

pics

[johnaec]

Very nice! How do you find the time for this stuff? It seems like what would almost be a full-time occupation!

Interesting blue stain, and baffles book-matched! Are the 15's in separate chambers? And do the foilcals actually say 4354? :)

John

[cvengr]

Gorgeous and practical height.

The grills also look more managed in that configuration.

[saeman]

Very nice! How do you find the time for this stuff? It seems like what would almost be a full-time occupation!

Interesting blue stain, and baffles book-matched! Are the 15's in separate chambers? And do the foilcals actually say 4354? :)

John

Hi John:

Thanks for the comments. I never have enough time but these projects are a passion and I make time, sometimes at the expense of other things that I should be doing - like painting rooms for my wife, etc. We both do 7 days a week at our business but I will do 2-3 hours near every morning before work and 2-3 hours near every evening after work. It's more relaxation for me than it is work. On my way to work after this note.

The blue baffles are water based stain over white ash veneered baltic birch. I tried this with my so called vertical 4351 project and failed. I ended up painting the oak veneered baffles blue in frustration. This time the results were acceptable, but still not perfect. It's a lot of work - veneering a large baffle and then staining and clear coating to protect the result - and I'm not too interested in doing it again.

The cabinet interior is identical in volume to the factory 4350. The mid base box is in the upper right/left corner so the interior is kind of L shaped. Both woofs share the same volume like in the 4350/4355.

Grille badge says 4355 for now but I hope to have dedicated 4354 foil cals and badges made - too late to do it half ass now.

Rick

[saeman]

Gorgeous and practical height.

The grills also look more managed in that configuration.

My original plan was for two grilles split horizontally like the 4350. On paper it looked ok but the vertical split looked better. I only had to separate the woofs an inch or so more to allow the vertical grilles. If a fat guy wants to wear a striped shirt he needs to find one with vertical stripes - horizontal stripes only make him look fatter!

[macaroonie]

Very very tasty and I do like the grille treatment.:applaud:

[scott fitlin]

I like those round wood horns! SUHWEET!

:D

[saeman]

I like those round wood horns! SUHWEET!

:D
Thanx Scotty and I can only thank John W. for the horns. I hope to supply him with great reports on their performance.

I can do a lot of things with wood but turning horns on a lathe is not one of them. I owned a wood lathe years ago but gave it away. Back then there was nothing in lathe work that interested me - too late to learn now.

John - you should consider making MORE of these beautiful horns!!!!!

Rick:bouncy:

[cvengr]

..I only had to separate the woofs an inch or so more to allow the vertical grilles. ...

Let us know how the increased volume and 2235 H separation sounds.

Are these tuned, then, a bit lower than the 4355s? i.e larger enclosure volume?

I've laid out a set for the 2235s to be only less than 2 inches apart with angle supports int he rear in the enclosure. My only concern is if the infinite baffle assumption is insufficiently designed for proper phase coherence. The test boxes I'm working on have a 24" depth for lower tuning, but might not match the closer adjacency of the LF transducers.

[saeman]

Let us know how the increased volume and 2235 H separation sounds.

Internal volume is identical to the 4350 and 4355. Spread between the woofers is a couple inches wider than stock 4350/4355. I'm not sure that I will be able to detect any difference in the sound??? If I can I'l surely let you know.

Are these tuned, then, a bit lower than the 4355s? i.e larger enclosure volume?

They're currently tuned like the 4350 but I don't expect to leave them that low with 2235H's. I like the faster base response of the 4355 even though they are tuned a bit higher. For me it's just a matter of cutting some off of each of the port tubes. Using the larger single port of the 4355 was not a good option with these cabinets.

I've laid out a set for the 2235s to be only less than 2 inches apart with angle supports int he rear in the enclosure. My only concern is if the infinite baffle assumption is insufficiently designed for proper phase coherence. The test boxes I'm working on have a 24" depth for lower tuning, but might not match the closer adjacency of the LF transducers.

I considered building the boxes deeper like the 24" you described but I still have to fit these babies into my room in a manner that suits available space - thus 15 1/2" internal depth


Later - Rick

[richluvsound]

And the Maestro strikes again. :applaud:

Rich

[John W]

:D
Great work Rick.

[Audiobeer]

Rick you never let us down with either your passion or the product. Just absolutely beautiful!

[saeman]

Thanx John and once again, thanks for the horns. Please let me know if you find a way to turn elliptical horns on your lathe. They might be fun to experiment with in wood.

I'll keep you posted as I move along the testing and listening and tweeking curve.

Rick:)

[JBL 4645]

That was like JBL porn :D those 4354 looked very nice.

[timc]

Incredible work. If they sound half as good as they look, you can be happy :applaud:

[yggdrasil]

Great work, and gorgeous looking speakers.

[OLDGEN]

COOOOL:applaud:

[Chas]

Stunning work, Rick. The moniker "Fat boys" is very appropriate and the proportions work very well visually, IMHO.

[Woody Banks]

You did it again Rick! Stunning work. The wooden John horns are a very practical solution and a beautiful highlight to a killer set of monitors.:applaud:

[saeman]

Howdy Woody and thanks for your post. You also have a new project in the works. I saw some early drawings and pics but you need to post an update. I'm anxious to hear your wood horn evaluation.

Rick:bouncy:

[Robh3606]

Very nice speakers

Rob:applaud:

[mech986]

Very nice work as usual!! Great concept, should be interesting to see how it turns out.

You might consider now adding handles to the inner edges of each grille and get the the icemaker/beer tap installed :cheers: (or have a matching front facing designed onto your favorite real refrigerator).

Regards,

Bart

[scorpio]

Rick, I looked for the info but could not find it, did you ever post about the sonic results of the wooden horn in these beauties?

Thanks

[saeman]

Hi Scorpio:

Good timing on your post but you were looking for information that I have yet to post. The 4354's have become a permanent part of my main system; as permanent as I have seen in a long long time. I had hoped by now that there would be update info to post but not to date. I do believe the John W. wood horns sound very good. Problem is, I am still running this system on a pair of 3107 networks. But this will change in the next couple of days.

I received yesterday one of the final pairs of 3155 C.C. networks from 4313B. We are coming to the end of the first run for this network. I have gone without and forwarded previous pairs to other guys who were waiting. There are 2 more pairs on the bench near completion and that will be the end til after the 3145 adventure. So - the good timing of you post is - this weekend I will remove the 3107's and install the 3155's for evaluation. This will bring my system a step closer to completion. Currently the 2441s/wood horns are running on a network designed for the 2440 which we all know rolls off quite a bit lower than the 2441. This creates a significant hot spot at the high end of the 2441 and the 3107 has no l-pad to roll it back. I have been using an EQ to tame this down. Now I'll be able to listen to the horn/driver flat at the desired x-over point.

Beyond this I hope to get Giskard or some other all knowing and wise guru (with test equipment) to evaluate and help me set these speakers up properly. I suspect that there will be some fine tuning of the networks to accurately integrate the wood horn but this remains to be seen.

I'm 2 years into this pair but I can now see things starting to come together. I'll let you know more after this weekend. I've already auditioned the 3155 C.C. networks and I can say that they are a superior product but I now need to hear them with my super cool wood horns.

Rick

[scorpio]

Brilliant!, I'm really looking forward to the results of your evaluation.

Right now, i'm pondering if I should go towards using my current components with some additions from what's displayed in my avatar towards something like a 4344. The only difference with the true thing would be using a 2450 instead of the 1", and I would plan to use it with a short, stubby horn like the one you have.

Cheers

[tom1040]

Today is the first day I have seen your work. Superb. Those are a work of art. Man, I would love to hear them. Talent.:applaud:

[scorpio]

Brilliant!, I'm really looking forward to the results of your evaluation.


Cheers

Hi, I'm persistent! and coming back at this... Did you manage to change the networks, and if so, any news for us?? I'm just in the middle of ordering some drivers from an esteemed member of this place, and am thinking again of a 2" based "4344 - Not"?

Thanks!

[saeman]

Hi, I'm persistent! and coming back at this... Did you manage to change the networks, and if so, any news for us?? I'm just in the middle of ordering some drivers from an esteemed member of this place, and am thinking again of a 2" based "4344 - Not"?

Thanks!

Thanks for the persistance Scorpio. As usual, I'm behind in updating threads that I have been involved with.

The C.C. 3155 networks have been in the cabinets for several months now. The difference between them and the stock 3107's is quite obvious. Prior to nstalling them there was a hugh hot spot in the mid range due to the 2441 being allowed by the 3107 to run out. With no L-Pad I was forced to EQ it down.

The new networks resolved that problem. They seem quite transparent and the system sounds wonderful. I lack the ability to run any curves on the system at this point but I hope to get some help in the near future.

These networks have proven to be a hands-down improvement over the stock 3155's when installed in the 4355. My system uses all 4355 components in cabinets of different geometry, but same internal volume. There's every reason for me to believe their performance is identical - less some slight difference in using the large walnut horn. This is what I need to evaluate with some test equipment in the future.

Rick

[Challenger604]

Hi there,
I'm almost done with a pair of 4355 and I would like to know how you did your trim.
did you trim from birch wood or you veneered it? Very nice work!

thank you very much.
christophe


Hi John:

Thanks for the comments. I never have enough time but these projects are a passion and I make time, sometimes at the expense of other things that I should be doing - like painting rooms for my wife, etc. We both do 7 days a week at our business but I will do 2-3 hours near every morning before work and 2-3 hours near every evening after work. It's more relaxation for me than it is work. On my way to work after this note.

The blue baffles are water based stain over white ash veneered baltic birch. I tried this with my so called vertical 4351 project and failed. I ended up painting the oak veneered baffles blue in frustration. This time the results were acceptable, but still not perfect. It's a lot of work - veneering a large baffle and then staining and clear coating to protect the result - and I'm not too interested in doing it again.

The cabinet interior is identical in volume to the factory 4350. The mid base box is in the upper right/left corner so the interior is kind of L shaped. Both woofs share the same volume like in the 4350/4355.

Grille badge says 4355 for now but I hope to have dedicated 4354 foil cals and badges made - too late to do it half ass now.

Rick

[christo]

Based upon the saeman’s level of craftsmanship the trim would be hard wood cut to size. See this thread post 15 where he talks about trim repair. I used the same type of technique when attaching trim to my DIY 4344 project.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?21498-Alive-And-Well-In-My-JBL-Shop