L300 vs. K2 S9800

[Domino]

I will be auditioning a pair of the K2 S9800 speakers real soon and I'm very excited about it. I haven't heard new JBL's in many years. I currently own a pair of L300's that I bought new way back in 1976. I am very curious about what I can expect the differences to be. Has any one heard both of these speakers? The new ones are around $15,000 ea. I understand.
Frank

[Andyoz]

There are some comments regarding the "new" and "old" JBL sound here.

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=15653&highlight=s9800

[Titanium Dome]

That's an excellent link provided by Andy, and if you read the whole thing, there will be some mention of the K2 S9800, the 4320, and the L300. I cited this review, where you can get the whole commentary.

http://www.ultraaudio.com/equipment/jbl_k2_s9800.htm

If I were you, I'd be very excited, too. The K2 S9800 is an awesome package. Since you've been listening to those wonderful L300s for thirty years, don't expect to fully experience the K2 S9800 in the first audition. IME, a couple of lengthy auditions are needed at a minimum to get your ears and brain acclimated to something as wonderful and different as the K2 S9800.

How anyone can give them single listen and decide they are or are not for them is beyond my ability or understanding. I do understand "love at first hearing" but like love at first sight it can have unfortunate long term consequences.

So whether you really like them or you don't quite get them at the first audition, make an effort to get a second listen soon after. You might be surprised how familiarity changes your perception one way or the other.

Also, I'd recommend that you listen to some music on the K2 S9800s that you're very familiar with on the L300s, AND some music that you've never heard on the L300s. Take that same unfamiliar music home and listen to it on your L300s to get a reverse comparison.

Either way, you're in for a treat. :yes:

[Rolf]

I have heard both, but not in the same room. What I believe is that the L300 have a deeper and "nicer" low end ... the rest is "up to the listener". I prefer the L300 overall. But that's me.:)

[timc]

What do you mean by "nicer" low end Rolf?


I have not heard the L300, but the S9800 in a good home setup on several ocations. They outperform everything else i have heard by far.

That said i have also heard them in a shop demo, and that was terrible....... I seems like the kind of speaker that either sounds or not.

Enjoy you audition.


-Tim

[Rolf]

What do you mean by "nicer" low end Rolf?


I have not heard the L300, but the S9800 in a good home setup on several ocations. They outperform everything else i have heard by far.

That said i have also heard them in a shop demo, and that was terrible....... I seems like the kind of speaker that either sounds or not.

Enjoy you audition.


-Tim

In my ears the low end sounds "better", maybe softer in a way, and it goes deeper down in frequency than the 9800.

You are right, like most large JBL's they can sound terrible, and very good in the right room with right electronics. I prefer the "old" horn sound compared to the ones in 9800, but again, that's me.:)

[Audiobeer]

Not have truly golden ears, I'd have to say that after laying down $15000 for a pair of K2s..... even if the differences were marginal some part of my brain would be selling the other part that the K2s were a tremendous improvement!
:applaud:

[4313B]

I will be auditioning a pair of the K2 S9800 speakers real soon and I'm very excited about it.Neato!
I haven't heard new JBL's in many years. I currently own a pair of L300's that I bought new way back in 1976.Groovy!
I am very curious about what I can expect the differences to be.Don't expect anything. Just go and audition them. Why would you come here first and get a head full of polluted thoughts? You don't want to care what anyone else thinks beforehand. The discussion comes after you've listened to both.
Has any one heard both of these speakers?Yeah, quite a few of us have.
I prefer the L300 overall. But that's me.:)Well the L300 and 4333 always were fun systems. The audiophiles sneered at them but who cares about those people unless you have a ton of $10,000 wire to sell.

[Rolf]

Well the L300 and 4333 always were fun systems. The audiophiles sneered at them but who cares about those people unless you have a ton of $10,000 wire to sell.

:rotfl:

[Domino]

Well I'll be having my audition this coming Thursday and I'm really looking forward to it. I have had my L300's since new. I bought them new back in 1978. I have had the woofers reconed the last year with the 2235 kits and also the 077 diaphrams replaced with the 2405 kits. All work done by an authorized JBL service center in Philadelphia. One diaphram went bad so I had them both done. Also last year I replaced all the caps in the crossover with Solen polypropylene. I had a bad one in the 077 circuit so I decided to do them all. Wow. what a difference! Big improvement across the board. I understand the k2 touts Solen in their crossovers. These L300's have never sounded better so I'm really looking forward to the comparison. By the way, the K2's are $15,000 apiece!
I'll be bringing CD's that are very familiar for the audition.
We'll see how the L300's do after all these years. If I'm impressed enough with them I have no problem spending the money. I also want to audition the B&W 800 series also.

[4313B]

By the way, the K2's are $15,000 apiece!Yeah, that's a show stopper for alot of people.

I understand the k2 touts Solen in their crossovers.Yeah, charge-coupled Solens as do the Everest II and a few other higher end JBL systems.

Well I'll be having my audition this coming Thursday and I'm really looking forward to it.Well, let us know what you think.

[Titanium Dome]

I'll be bringing CD's that are very familiar for the audition.


I know this is common practice, and it's a good one as far as it goes.

In addition, let me reiterate that you'd be well served to take some CDs that are highly regarded for their music and their mastering that you are not familiar with. Play a few tracks at least from these on the K2s, then take them home and listen to them on your L300s.

Have a great time! :yes:

[Domino]

Well I just got back from my audition of the K2's. To begin with they do not go as deep in the bass as my L300's, Not even close. A subwoofer would be a must for my taste. Much more bass definition and impact with the L300's too. Got to love those 2235's!!(reconed 136A's). The K2's sounded very restrained in the midrange also. Vocals and lead instruments seem to have been somewhat in the background compared to what I'm used to with my L300's. Very evident in Stevie Ray Vaughn's solo in "First We Take Manhattan" on Jennifer Warnes' great album "Famous Blue Raincoat". I must say however that the tweeter in the K2's is about the finest I have ever heard from JBL. Overall the L300's are much more alive and exciting in most every respect.
The K2's are very smooth and the engineers at JBL seem to have gone out of their way not to offend anyone with this sound but in doing so the K2's have earned the a description of "sedate" in my book.

[4313B]

Nice! You just saved yourself a bag of bucks. :yes:


The K2's are very smooth and the engineers at JBL seem to have gone out of their way not to offend anyone with this sound but in doing so the K2's have earned the a description of "sedate" in my book.Yes, G.T. designed both the L300/4333 and the K2-S9800 for their intended markets. The K2-S9800 really does need some EQ on the bottom end to fill it out for N.A. audiences.

[Titanium Dome]

Well, that's not surprising. You've enjoyed your L300s for years and years and listened to music that you're very familiar with; you're not likely to embrace a different sound immediately if ever. At least you satisfied yourself that you prefer what you've had all this time. That's money saved for sure.

It'd be interesting to have someone who's lived with the K2 S9800s for a while (and never heard an L300) try some of his/her favorite music on a pair of L300s. That's not likely to happen, at least around these parts, until you can get K2 S9800s for $5k a pair on the used market.

[richluvsound]

Ti,

I think 4313b hit the nail on the head. They are 2 different speakers. I have'nt heard the K2 proper, just the horn :applaud: Very good for Classical and Jazz. K2 does things the 4333a can't do and visa versa. The Who sounds better on my 43 series for sure..... If only someone would re-design the K2 with more LF;) ------The best of both worlds at the flick of a switch

Rich

[Titanium Dome]

Ti,

I think 4313b hit the nail on the head. They are 2 different speakers. I have'nt heard the K2 proper, just the horn :applaud: Very good for Classical and Jazz. K2 does things the 4333a can't do and visa versa. The Who sounds better on my 43 series for sure..... If only someone would re-design the K2 with more LF;) ------The best of both worlds at the flick of a switch

Rich

Agree, two different speakers.

I'm surprised you say The Who sound good on anything. :duck:





Just apin' ya, mate. :p I loved Keith, John, Roger and Pete. I wore out three of the Who's Next before the CD came out. Vinyl's still better though, and played through my L100s at that.

[BMWCCA]

I'll volunteer to do a test of the two! As someone who's grown up listening to the 030 (D130/075) for the past fifty years, I'm reasonably certain the K2 will have enough low-end kick for me! I might have to trim the bottom-end of the L300s I hope to eventually own, but that's why I've got all these EQs!

So, tell me where to go for the audition!!?? :applaud:

[Domino]

Dome, you make a good point concerning owning the K2's and hearing L300's/4333's for the first time. I'd love to hear that comparison. It seems to me modern designs are leaning towards laid back mids and a very controled type sound. It's like you are in the third row with the 300's and about 3/4's of the way back with the K2's

[richluvsound]

Ti,

Behind Blue Eyes, is now playing.... Pete still has JBL;)

I want to stay up and play Mate, but she has that look in her eye again:banghead:

later, Rich

[richluvsound]

[QUOTE=Domino; It's like you are in the third row with the 300's and about 3/4's of the way back with the K2's[/QUOTE]

One screams, one whispers , both are sexy:p

Rich

[Andyoz]

Rich, now I know why you wanted to get off the phone with me tonight...you had a better offer !!! :blink:

[Rolf]

Well I just got back from my audition of the K2's. To begin with they do not go as deep in the bass as my L300's, Not even close. A subwoofer would be a must for my taste. Much more bass definition and impact with the L300's too. Got to love those 2235's!!(reconed 136A's). The K2's sounded very restrained in the midrange also. Vocals and lead instruments seem to have been somewhat in the background compared to what I'm used to with my L300's. Very evident in Stevie Ray Vaughn's solo in "First We Take Manhattan" on Jennifer Warnes' great album "Famous Blue Raincoat". I must say however that the tweeter in the K2's is about the finest I have ever heard from JBL. Overall the L300's are much more alive and exciting in most every respect.
The K2's are very smooth and the engineers at JBL seem to have gone out of their way not to offend anyone with this sound but in doing so the K2's have earned the a description of "sedate" in my book.

:D What did I say in my previous posts?

[Mr. Widget]

I must say however that the tweeter in the K2's is about the finest I have ever heard from JBL.I would pretty much agree with your entire review/comparison between these two JBL systems... I too really felt they did an excellent job on the little bat slayer. The 077 becomes obviously crude sounding after getting used to a driver like the 045Be... I do disagree with you on a couple of semantic points. Your assessment of the bass quality in the K2 for example... I feel the K2 potentially has far better punch and articulation than the L300, however the relative lack of bass extension may make it seem to lack definition... or perhaps what you found missing was due to a setup/room thing.

I also have a different take on your comment about the K2 being polite or JBL not wanting to offend... I think it is more of an issue of the newer speaker having a much more accurate response... some forum members who are used to listening to JBL monitor type speakers have heard one of my systems that while very different from the K2-S9800, it is similarly accurate. They found my system very disappointing. They were looking for that "classic" sound... some might call it the more "in your face" sound that classic JBL's were noted for. They left thinking my system lacked life and was boring to listen to.

On the one hand, personal preference does play a part here but also as Mr. Dome mused... a listener who is used to a more neutral more contemporary design might miss the great dynamics and rich musicality that the L300 can deliver because they would be bothered by their rather peaky response.


Widget

[timc]

Hi. I can't understand that you think the K2 don't have good bass articulation. I the system i listen to them, that was one of their real strengths, IMO.

The other thing i dont understand is the "laid back" statement. When litening to the 1812 Overture i felt like i was sitting in the front row with the cannonfire hitting me where it hurts. I found it amazing. It is the most detailed and uncompressed midrange i have ever heard. However the owner said they sounded terrible the first 4 months.....He almost packed them up and returned them.

I really have to audition a pair of L300 someday. Ayone in Norway who wants a visit?


-Tim

[Ian Mackenzie]

By comparison the L300 with a Wilson is not a particularly accurate loudspeaker by any stretch of imagination. A 70's 3 way rock classic.

The 98800 has its limitations as a 2 1/2 way millennium version of the classic 2 way VOT.

The problem is the tonality and extension versus dynamics. Obtaining both is both difficult and very expensive.

Try playing some opera or some Blue note Jazz recording

[pos]

What I find strange is that JBL does not use midbass drivers (8" and 10") anymore in its new speakers (except the 4348, and also the performance serie in a way?...)
As I understand it Greg Timbers was using the 1200fe that way in its array prototype (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=9951).
Is that that accuracy and detail of "lesser way designs" are more important for today intended market than dynamic and impact?

[4313B]

The 1200FE/435BE/H4338 has tons of impact and dynamics as does the 1500AL/435BE/H4338.

[pos]

So you think that with today's bass drivers, mid bass drivers are not as useful as they used to be?

[4313B]

I'm not entirely convinced of that. I can understand why they aren't in more systems though. Take the 1200FE/435BE/H9800 - adding in an 8-inch midbass driver would just unnecessarily complicate the whole affair. The system is so good as is. Alot of people are going to use a sub system anyway so the 1200FE kind of becomes the midbass driver by default.

[Rolf]

Hi. I can't understand that you think the K2 don't have good bass articulation. I the system i listen to them, that was one of their real strengths, IMO.

The other thing i dont understand is the "laid back" statement. When litening to the 1812 Overture i felt like i was sitting in the front row with the cannonfire hitting me where it hurts. I found it amazing. It is the most detailed and uncompressed midrange i have ever heard. However the owner said they sounded terrible the first 4 months.....He almost packed them up and returned them.

I really have to audition a pair of L300 someday. Ayone in Norway who wants a visit?


-Tim

Hi Tim.

You say: "When listening to the 1812 Overture i felt like i was sitting in the front row with the cannon fire hitting me where it hurts".

Have you ever been in the presence of a cannon? No matter the kind of speaker ... any speaker trying to reproduce the sound of a cannon will "explode", and be dead forever.

That is why you can play louder on systems that do nor reproduce frq under 40Hz. If you have a system that can reproduce 16Hz (few, if any can) that speaker will try to be a cannon and blow itself to oblivion.

Tim: I do not have the L300/4333 anymore, but I have the 4343. You are most welcome to Skien for a listening.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Rolf,

Actually my girlfriend loves the cannons and has no complaints around here..2245H ..bang!:D

Somewhere I read in a really old Red book about Lansing designs you need the equivalant cone area of two 15 inch drivers to reproduce frequencies below 50 hertz at life like levels without distortion. I dont think much has changed.

On the subject of big bangs some years ago I went over to Monash University and the final year physics students had designed a transmission line using a large RCF driver.

Out on a vast sports field with an array of these TL's and suitable racks of Crown amplifiication they played the 1812 Overture. It was quite convincing.

[Andyoz]

On the subject of big bangs some years ago I went over to Monash University and the final year physics students had designed a transmission line using a large RCF driver.

Ahhh, Monash Uni, my old hunting ground. Did you bump into Prof. Robert Alfredson?

He tutored me and was a bit taken aback when he later found out I was working in acoustics...I was a bit absent minded at Uni.

[Rolf]

Rolf,

Actually my girlfriend loves the cannons and has no complaints around here..2245H ..bang!:D

Somewhere I read in a really old Red book about Lansing designs you need the equivalant cone area of two 15 inch drivers to reproduce frequencies below 50 hertz at life like levels without distortion. I dont think much has changed.

On the subject of big bangs some years ago I went over to Monash University and the final year physics students had designed a transmission line using a large RCF driver.

Out on a vast sports field with an array of these TL's and suitable racks of Crown amplifiication they played the 1812 Overture. It was quite convincing.

Well, so far if played loud ... and I mean loud, all speakers have said "pruuup, klikk" or something like that trying to be a canon. If you can do it on your system at 160+ db, I en vie you. :cheers: Cheers!

[richluvsound]

Slightly off topic ,but linked to the previous posts:

ttp://www.illitrate.co.uk/klf/FAQ/faq4012.html

Cauty from KLF , "White Room" developed a sonic cannon carried on two tanks.

25kw . BOOM !

[JohanR]

Have you ever been in the presence of a cannon? No matter the kind of speaker ... any speaker trying to reproduce the sound of a cannon will "explode", and be dead forever.

That is why you can play louder on systems that do nor reproduce frq under 40Hz. If you have a system that can reproduce 16Hz (few, if any can) that speaker will try to be a cannon and blow itself to oblivion.


Just as a remark. The other day I happened to experience when a SAAB fighter aircraft accidently went supersonic and produced a sonic boom. It wasn't just extremely loud to the ears, you really felt how the air pressure changed and then went back to normal. No loudspeaker I've heard, JBL's or other, can do something even remotely like that.

But big JBL's can reproduce music like very few others can!

JohanR

[Andyoz]

It's called air-overpressure. You get similar thing with blasting.

It's not a sound wave as such, just a wave passing that has an increase in air-pressure, then a quick decrease. The changes in pressure involved are way above what a speaker can do really.

[timc]

Hi Tim.

Have you ever been in the presence of a cannon? No matter the kind of speaker ... any speaker trying to reproduce the sound of a cannon will "explode", and be dead forever.




Yes actually i have. Not in front of it though ;)

The often finish the concerts in the Royal Albert Hall with a salute with some cannons. I believe it is the same kind used on the 1812 Overture recording. (i don't know this for a fact). I actually found it to sound somewhat the same.

If the recorded cannons are the larger ones used for outdoor salutes, then it does not sound the same. Thoose cannons i don't believe is possible to reproduce, or even record for that matter.

-Tim

[Titanium Dome]

Well, this has gotten off thread about as far as it can go. I'm sure there are a lot of things a speaker can't reproduce precisely, cannon shots being one of the least that concern me.

Tim's point was that in his opinion the bass and midrange of the K2 S9800 are strengths rather than weak points. I agree.

I also agree that the L300 may have "more" of some things than the K2 S9800, and I recognize that there are those who prefer what the L300 has. I do not prefer it.

Still, I'll listen to an L300 any day of the week. But if a K2 S9800 calls my name, I'll leave...

[speakerdave]

So you think that with today's bass drivers, mid bass drivers are not as useful as they used to be?

This is the crux question as far as I am concerned. The modern woofers (mine are 1400nd) are quite amazing in their articulation, but playing them to a horn will bring the crossover point down into the frequency range that is spanned seamlessly by the 2122, for example. There definitely is a trade-off there.

A poster recently inquired about a driver to run from 80 to 1200 Hz (was that you, pos?). That would be nice. I've heard one running from 50 to 800, from subwoofer to horn, and was quite impressed with the coherency of the sound. SOTA digital processing contributed its bit, I'm sure, but the driver carried it off. I've heard it's out of production.

David

[Ian Mackenzie]

David,

There are drivers that will play 80 - 1200 hertz but there are some engineering compromises in terms cone break up with larger drivers where they become non piston mode and the dispersion narrows at the upper end of the bandwidth , hence they can honk badly unless the horn has matching dispersion.

At the other extreme smaller drivers have better high frequency behaviour but have higher distortion at the lower end and tend to have limited power handing. One solution is to use multiple smaller drivers like for example the 2118J and set them up for bandwith limiting to boost the lower end and support baffle step equalisation.

Here is very well researched contemporary design using high performance Peerless drivers. Note the use of a wave - guide for the high frequency dome tweeter at about 2.50 - 3.0 khertz. As I pointed out elsewhere today it would pay for some of you to look well out the sphere of the mainstay JBL offerings with your diy projects to discover the approaches others have taken with particular design issues. Suggest you also look at Jack's diy threads on waveguides using JBL and Tad drivers.

http://customanalogue.com/elsinore/elsinore_index.htm

http://customanalogue.com/elsinore/elsinore_8.htm

[pos]

A poster recently inquired about a driver to run from 80 to 1200 Hz (was that you, pos?).

:wasnt-me:

My problem would be more in the 20 to 350hz range: 2245H vs dual 2235H vs single 2235H vs dual helped 2234H vs dual LE14H-3 vs.....

[ozata]

Well, this has gotten off thread about as far as it can go. I'm sure there are a lot of things a speaker can't reproduce precisely, cannon shots being one of the least that concern me.

Tim's point was that in his opinion the bass and midrange of the K2 S9800 are strengths rather than weak points. I agree.

I also agree that the L300 may have "more" of some things than the K2 S9800, and I recognize that there are those who prefer what the L300 has. I do not prefer it.

Still, I'll listen to an L300 any day of the week. But if a K2 S9800 calls my name, I'll leave...

It's safe! The K2 S9800 are the best speakers that I could hear But I have the feeling that tastes are much different than I have thought.

[timc]

Well, this has gotten off thread about as far as it can go. I'm sure there are a lot of things a speaker can't reproduce precisely, cannon shots being one of the least that concern me.

Tim's point was that in his opinion the bass and midrange of the K2 S9800 are strengths rather than weak points. I agree.

I also agree that the L300 may have "more" of some things than the K2 S9800, and I recognize that there are those who prefer what the L300 has. I do not prefer it.

Still, I'll listen to an L300 any day of the week. But if a K2 S9800 calls my name, I'll leave...

Thanks TiDome. That was my point. It was not my intention in any way to trample Rolfs oppinions....I feel my english has some shortcommings when trying to convey impressions like this. So please bear with me :)


-Tim

[richluvsound]

If I had that kind of money The K2 would be sitting in my living room even, i if the wife and the 4345's didnt like it. The H9800 + 2435 I have rigged up on top of the 4345 are there for a reason. Guido and I hooked them up weeks ago ....I cant go back. 2425 , dusted Ti dia , with the fog horn and charge coupled cant do it.
I have heard the 1500al , I have 2 kicking around somewhere for my next project. This beast is fast as xxxx , the attack , articulation and control are awsome. And , capable of greater LF responce if the box is tuned lower.

Even here in England where JBL gets a raw deal, The K2 is afforded very ,very high praise from owners and reviewers alike.

[speakerdave]

If I had that kind of money The K2 would be sitting in my living room even, i if the wife and the 4345's didnt like it. The H9800 + 2435 I have rigged up on top of the 4345 are there for a reason. Guido and I hooked them up weeks ago ....I cant go back. 2425 , dusted Ti dia , with the fog horn and charge coupled cant do it.
I have heard the 1500al , I have 2 kicking around somewhere for my next project. This beast is fast as xxxx , the attack , articulation and control are awsome. And , capable of greater LF responce if the box is tuned lower.

Even here in England where JBL gets a raw deal, The K2 is afforded very ,very high praise from owners and reviewers alike.

How weird to see you dissing a speaker just a few months after you couldn't say enough about it. Part of the phenomenon of classic speakers for me is appreciating them for what they are. When one has an opportunity to do an upgrade under the guidance of the original designer, that's a remarkable boon.

The 4345 is a better speaker than most people will ever hear. The four-way monitor configuration developed by JBL in the seventies and eighties is a milestone in the history of the audio speaker and may be the highest achievable with mundane materials; the 4345 sits at the apex of that achievement.

Most people would not dispute that the 4345 is superior to the 4333 in ways that are easy to define. I have a pair of 4333's that have been sitting here with their faces to the wall for some time, but I let go of them reluctantly because they have their own tale to tell about music reproduction. They are very enjoyable to listen to and have advantages in some ways over the 4345, not the least of which is that they sound good with a single 60 watt tube channel per speaker.

I've heard the elements that are used in the 9800, and they are very good, and I can also identify drivers that go well beyond them, but neither the 4345 nor the 4333 make me feel ill with regret that I am not listening to something else.

One thing that makes me feel content with audio equipment that is less than perfect and keeps me from trashing any of it, is that I know all audio gear is imperfect. I know that because I take regular refresher courses in live music, most recently the Zehetmair Quartet. When the first notes are struck my world changes and my fixation on audio gear evaporates. It'a a highly recommended antidote to upgrade-itus.

David

[timc]

Seems to me that he isn't dissing them. Just stating that the H9800/2435 hpl is even better.

For their price they should be.


-Tim

[Robh3606]

Well I would have to agree that the 2435 is better sounding than an aguaplassed 1" driver. Doesn't mean I will dropping the 2425's in the trash bin. They sound good in there own right just different. Certainly nothing to be ashamed of. I know my 4344 wanabe clones aren't going anywhere.

Rob:)

[4313B]

I really like what the aquaplased Ti diaphragms and charge-coupled networks do for the 4345's and 4355's. If I was going to build a personal pair though I would use the 2245H, 2122H, 2441(376)/2311(H93)/L94, and the 077. That's based on what I've been putting time into and listening to for the last year or so.

I also like the 1200FE/435BE/H4338 and 1500AL/435BE/H4338. I can't imagine getting rid of them unless technology drastically changes.

[richluvsound]

Speaker Dave or should I say Dr Dave, thanks for the diagnosis.

The K2 is designed by the same person as the 4345,is it not ? I'm very honoured to be part of this JBL forum ,but my main priority is to my ear;) The 4345's are clones and thats all they will ever be , CLONES.Therefore, no provenance to respect or to be held hostage by.Infact, it is stated that the 4345 was not GT's favorite speaker. I'm more interested in what GT is doing. He is the real JBL. JBL as brand is dead, all it makes is crap car gear and bloody Ipod speakers.

The 4345 is first speaker I ever built, not bad eh ! The experience started something really exciting for me. For the most part, I have had the chance to meet and learn from some wonderful people with a great deal of proven knowledge and experience.

I did not diss anyone ,or thing. The thread was comparing 2 speakers and I was voicing just one opinion of many. Its just unfortunate it happens to differ from yours:( I was merely expressing and opinion based on my exprience of the chosen subject.

The 4333a's are restored to the original factory spec. I spared no expence . I have done my bit for the heritage. I am a professional designer and artist ..(hence my philosophy) If something fails to meet an owners needs, its time to design something that will . After all, I would'nt freeze my nuts off wearing a 30 year old over- coat just because it had the fancy label on it, when I could UPGRADE to something incorporating the lastest thinsulate material and feel warm. That would be sheer stupidity ! would'nt you agree ?

A girlfriend of mine plays cello, piano , violin and has a pretty good voice. Her name can be found on many cd covers as well as her own releases. She grew up sitting on Pete Gabriel's knee ( her father was his recording engineer for many years ) She comes and practices in my studio ( she loves the acoustics) I know what real instruments sound like. Thats why I can say ,based on my experince, that I prefer the H9800 + 2345 to the 2420 or 2425 and their respective horn arrangements.

4- ways. I agree , they F--kin rock. Thats why the next project is ONE. 2x2245, 12" and a CD it maybe the new JBL or it may be that other brand that we must not mention . And will be driven by new amplifier technology.

By the way , 4345's can be driven briliantly by Valves ,20 watt,push pull, class A, I just decided not to spend $ 12,000 on that amp

Rich

[richluvsound]

I really like what the aquaplased Ti diaphragms and charge-coupled networks do for the 4345's and 4355's. If I was going to build a personal pair though I would use the 2245H, 2122H, 2441(376)/2311(H93)/L94, and the 077. That's based on what I've been putting time into and listening to for the last year or so.

I also like the 1200FE/435BE/H4338 and 1500AL/435BE/H4338. I can't imagine getting rid of them unless technology drastically changes.

2441 are becoming very rare and even more expensive over here.How about the 2451 ? Can a conical and a bi- radial horn be compared fairly ?

Rich

[speakerdave]

Well, I think it's more understandable now that your POV is more fully expressed. The ambiguity of "cant do it" leaves a bit to clarify.


. . . . 4- ways. I agree , they F--kin rock. Thats why the next project is ONE. 2x2245, 12" and a CD it maybe the new JBL or it may be that other brand that we must not mention . . . .

Yeah, it could be the JBL if it were available.

Dr. Dave

[speakerdave]

2441 are becoming very rare and even more expensive over here.How about the 2451 ? Can a conical and a bi- radial horn be compared fairly ?

Rich

Yeah, good question. What about the 2450 with aquaplased titanium? It fits well on a 2311.

Dr. Dave

[richluvsound]

The ambiguity of "cant do it" leaves a bit to clarify.





Dr. Dave

Fair comment. It was a little vague .;)

Rich

[Mr. Widget]

...I take regular refresher courses in live music, most recently the Zehetmair Quartet. When the first notes are struck my world changes and my fixation on audio gear evaporates.:applaud:

It's rather bittersweet... I can visit a friend and marvel at the music his >$200K system recreates, but then when you hear a symphony orchestra in a vast hall or a jazz quartet in an intimate club, our canned music gets slapped in the face with the reality stick.


Widget

[4313B]

our canned music gets slapped in the face with the reality stick.Yep, all this stuff is just toys to play with.

Yeah, good question. What about the 2450 with aquaplased titanium? It fits well on a 2311.Whatever you think works. I'm just posting what I would do if I did it all over again. :)

[mike]

I've found that more often than not trying to eliminate all compromises and imperfections from a system usually ends up in less enjoyment in the long run. In fact, the older I get I find that usually I enjoy something like my old JBL L96's driven by a relatively inexpensive solid state amp more so than a pair of high end speakers driven by high end electronics.

Mike

[mikebake]

Take the 1200FE/435BE/H9800 - adding in an 8-inch midbass driver would just unnecessarily complicate the whole affair. The system is so good as is. Alot of people are going to use a sub system anyway so the 1200FE kind of becomes the midbass driver by default.
Do you have a pair of these now?

[4313B]

Has anyone compared the S4800 or 4338 to the L300 or 4333?