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View Full Version : Finally!!! Won an Ultra Curve on Evil Bay



toddalin
10-06-2007, 07:58 PM
They tried to snipe me in the last second, but I was finally able to go the distance and win a Behringer Ultra Curve Pro for $137.50 + $15 S/H.

Normally I wouldn't have gone that high but this one said it included the mic and case (for the mic I assume). Hopefully, it's at least the Behringer mic (or better), that would more than make up the difference of what I would have paid (usually bid about $110-120 on them), but I'm not gonna hold my breath. (I've seen them go for as little as about $100.)

Maybe now I can get some decent data on my own. ;)

JBL 4645
10-06-2007, 08:38 PM
Well done thatís a nice unit. :applaud:

John
10-07-2007, 02:06 PM
They tried to snipe me in the last second, but I was finally able to go the distance and win a Behringer Ultra Curve Pro for $137.50 + $15 S/H.

Normally I wouldn't have gone that high but this one said it included the mic and case (for the mic I assume). Hopefully, it's at least the Behringer mic (or better), that would more than make up the difference of what I would have paid (usually bid about $110-120 on them), but I'm not gonna hold my breath. (I've seen them go for as little as about $100.)

Maybe now I can get some decent data on my own. ;)

What ever happened to using your ears?:p

toddalin
10-07-2007, 02:27 PM
What ever happened to using your ears?:p

Very hard to repeatedly quantify a change of 1-2 dB at an unknown frequency by ear, let alone small changes as a result of minor crossover value substitutions. I've not had my ears calibrated to that degree. :o:

Now in the past I did have my eyeballs registered to legally quantify smoke opacity, through the California Air Resource Board, but have not had them recertified in years. :D

grumpy
10-07-2007, 03:24 PM
Maybe now I can get some decent data on my own. ;)

Cool. I'm sure you'll have fun w/ that :). Recall the Behringer mic response
posts, or have your's calibrated (better). :cheers: -grumpy

diamondsouled
10-07-2007, 05:17 PM
Are you using the Ultra Curve for pro sound reinforcement application or for home audio use?

Just wondering because I've been looking at some of the new digital loud speaker management units out there: DBX, Ber, BBE, etc.

The DBX comes with a built in analyzer which is nice. Anyone else been checking out any, all in one, units?

How would they be for Hi Fi usage? I know a lot of people are anti DtoA AtoD conversion when it comes to home audio.

Lar

toddalin
10-07-2007, 05:23 PM
Are you using the Ultra Curve for pro sound reinforcement application or for home audio use?

Just wondering because I've been looking at some of the new digital loud speaker management units out there: DBX, Ber, BBE, etc.

The DBX comes with a built in analyzer which is nice. Anyone else been checking out any, all in one, units?

How would they be for Hi Fi usage? I know a lot of people are anti DtoA AtoD conversion when it comes to home audio.

Lar

For "tweeking" the home system.

One channel may be used in conjunction with the center channel to raise the vocals for television/movies.

I prefer not to put anything in the lines that may affect the overall stereo image or add noise, and as a result pulled by Yamaha 31 band eqs out of the system.

diamondsouled
10-07-2007, 06:16 PM
Tweeking is always fun.

Some of the features on the loud speaker management type units are quite powerful. Being able to control delay on any LF MF HF unit individually as well as phasing, eqing, and a wide choice of filter types BW LR and slopes etc. would be nice. Especially when it's all done at 36 bits.

The only weak point I've heard about is the quality of the op amps in these units.

It will be nice if someone thinks to put out a genuinely state of art unit designed specifically for home audio.

Being able to fine tune biamped and triamped home speaker systems with these digital units could yield some interesting results.

Larry

toddalin
10-23-2007, 06:18 PM
Behringer finally arrived today (purchased and paid for on evil bay on Oct 6). A little happiness to go with all of this firestorm misery. :o:

1audiohack
10-23-2007, 07:17 PM
Are you using the Ultra Curve for pro sound reinforcement application or for home audio use?

Just wondering because I've been looking at some of the new digital loud speaker management units out there: DBX, Ber, BBE, etc.

The DBX comes with a built in analyzer which is nice. Anyone else been checking out any, all in one, units?

How would they be for Hi Fi usage? I know a lot of people are anti DtoA AtoD conversion when it comes to home audio.




I swapped out a Rane AC 23, and an Alesis EQ for a DBX DriveRack PA about 6 months ago in my main room, and have yet to get it to sound as good as it used to. :blink:

It really lost a lot of punch, even with all the protection features off and the EQ flat, the dynamics are gone. I haven't been happy with it, yet.:banghead:

On a positive note, it is pretty quiet however. Any ideas?

timc
10-23-2007, 11:16 PM
Is it possible that the "error" goes the other way? That the Rane and Alesis had a little boost here and there?

-Tim

1audiohack
10-24-2007, 08:59 AM
That is absolutely a possibility. Some real measurement is in order.

UreiCollector
10-25-2007, 05:58 PM
I own an ultracurve and find it very handy for analyzing the room....i then transfer the curves (by hand) to the ultradrive, and let that do the eq.

I found the ultracurve to be unstable, prone to many software resets, and hang ups. Please let me know if you run across the same. This is why I only use it for analysis and not in the audio path.

Zilch
10-25-2007, 07:30 PM
My UltraCruve has been glitch-free since I bought it new over 2.5 years ago.... :yes:

Chas
10-27-2007, 05:31 AM
Mine's fine too. The D/A ain't bad either.:)

toddalin
10-27-2007, 07:52 PM
Today I made up some cables for the Behringer. (~15 foot low impedience SwitchCraft male to SwitchCraft female for the mic, 1/4" phono to RCA for the analog outputs, and SwitchCraft to RCA (unbalanced ) for the inputs. Luckily I still had these from ~30 years ago when I played.

DANG!!! It's a good thing that Behringer puts the user manual on-line! :spchless: No way I would ever figure out all it does without the manual!

BTW, is it just mine, or does the pink noise signal get louder as the frequency gets higher? That's how my display protrays it with no mic connected.

Zilch
10-27-2007, 08:18 PM
I'll check that, but you'll need to tell me what settings are used to accomplish that. Just looking at the pink noise output on the RTA?

BTW, it's not apparent or intuitive how to operate the pink noise generator for some:

On I/O menu P.1, highlight pink noise an push the large wheel.

Adjust the level using the bottom knob.

Pain in the ass dialing it up every time, but I suppose there's a way to use a memory location for a standard setting without EQ. :dont-know

toddalin
10-27-2007, 10:54 PM
I'll check that, but you'll need to tell me what settings are used to accomplish that. Just looking at the pink noise output on the RTA?

BTW, it's not apparent or intuitive how to operate the pink noise generator for some:

On I/O menu P.1, highlight pink noise an push the large wheel.

Adjust the level using the bottom knob.

Pain in the ass dialing it up every time, but I suppose there's a way to use a memory location for a standard setting without EQ. :dont-know

Yes, just looking at the pink noise output on the RTA. All other settings appear to be off. 20KHz is about 10 dB higher than 20Hz with a steady slope between the two extremes. Menu only seems to adjust pink noise volume. :blink:

Also, when the mic cord is plugged in, but the mic not attached there is about a 5 dB rise around ~<60 hz that spans about 3 bars to either side (60 Hz hum?)

Zilch
10-27-2007, 11:44 PM
I/O Page 1 Pink Noise on and turned up to -20 dB.

RTA Page 1 button A to L+R Out. It's reading the outputs, summed.

RTA Page 2 button A to rate = AVRG.

It's perfectly flat. Any EQ you have on alters that accordingly.

Make sure all are off, GEQ both L & R reset to flat, etc.

Thom
10-28-2007, 12:37 PM
I'm glad someone can figure the damn thing out. I use the earlier model to generate noise and read while using the 2496 to equalize I'm not convinced that I ever got it to equalize in auto. Also, I didn't figure out how to alter below 100hz when using auto eq. I stopped taking pain meds just to try to understand the two units and they still made me feel like an idiot. I'm usually quite good with such things. I work as an instrument tech and such. Do the bars ever quit dancing enough for you to feel confident about your adjustments? Some devices come with a "how to use this manual" page in the manual.

toddalin
10-28-2007, 03:59 PM
I/O Page 1 Pink Noise on and turned up to -20 dB.

RTA Page 1 button A to L+R Out. It's reading the outputs, summed.

RTA Page 2 button A to rate = AVRG.

It's perfectly flat. Any EQ you have on alters that accordingly.

Make sure all are off, GEQ both L & R reset to flat, etc.


Been there done that but didn't help!

FINALLY, I stumbled onto the "NOISE SHAPER" in the I/O Menu. Absolutely no indication of what it does or how to use it except a mention on page 13 of the manual that notes "The NOISE SHAPER function to be activated with the B key reduces the dither-induced noise by moving it to a frequency range where it is less audible." No other mention of it in the manual.

Turning it off brought everything up level. :o:

toddalin
10-28-2007, 04:03 PM
I'm glad someone can figure the damn thing out. I use the earlier model to generate noise and read while using the 2496 to equalize I'm not convinced that I ever got it to equalize in auto. Also, I didn't figure out how to alter below 100hz when using auto eq. I stopped taking pain meds just to try to understand the two units and they still made me feel like an idiot. I'm usually quite good with such things. I work as an instrument tech and such. Do the bars ever quit dancing enough for you to feel confident about your adjustments? Some devices come with a "how to use this manual" page in the manual.

Thom. I noticed the same thing and there were no tick marks on the display below 100 Hz to even change! However, when I deactivated the NOISE SHAPER these tick marks appeared. (I think that must be what did it.)

Has to be one of the worst user manuals I've ever seen. :banghead:

JBL 4645
10-28-2007, 04:06 PM
I/O Page 1 Pink Noise on and turned up to -20 dB.

RTA Page 1 button A to L+R Out. It's reading the outputs, summed.

RTA Page 2 button A to rate = AVRG.

It's perfectly flat. Any EQ you have on alters that accordingly.

Make sure all are off, GEQ both L & R reset to flat, etc.

Yes of course (summed) if there was a DCX2496 on the input revere the phase of polarity and the signal will drop.

I’m looking forwards to get a few of these DEQ2496 sometime next year to tame the LCR and as for the other channel, I don’t know I’ll think of something, I’ll then save up and get a third or fourth at the same time to do sidewall surrounds centre back and height surrounds.

Then things will be getting close to the way I want it, I can throw out the other EQ units or use them for something other maybe use one between the, analogue Lt Rt on one of the DVD players. The DEQ2496 will be for room EQ correcting only.

Zilch
10-28-2007, 05:12 PM
Do the bars ever quit dancing enough for you to feel confident about your adjustments?Yes. You set the Rate to "AVRG." Two clicks of "A" and you're back to a readable live display. Two clicks more, and you're on average again, where I take all of my pics for posting here.

That's the drill at ZilchLab, anyway.... :thmbsup:

toddalin
10-29-2007, 06:17 PM
Well..., I think I might be getting the hang of this thing..., but:

Using the phono jack outputs, there is a terrible ground loop without using a cheater plug. Is this normal?

I finally got the RTA to work with the ECM8000 mic..., but:

Even when the amp volume is turned all the way down (no sound from the speakers), the display still dances about (fairly evenly across the band now except for my 60 hz bump, probably due to the unshielded mic cable).

I know the mic is working because the display does go up with a signal from the mic. (While the Max adjustment brings the level down, it's still there.)

Again, is this normal? Is it reading its own background noise?

Again, got to be the worst user manual I've seen! For example, it notes to use a sensitivity of -37 dBV/Pa for the ECM8000 mic..., but doesn't note to turn on the phantom power supply.

UreiCollector
10-29-2007, 06:32 PM
Adjustments by hand would be my recomendation, however if you want to use auto EQ, the box will not do this below 100hz.

Page 15 of the manual states "It makes sense to exclude the low-frequency range (up to approx. 100 Hz) from AUTO EQing, because it is this range that may produce inaccuracies during the calculation of the frequency response, which might impair the results achieved with the AUTO EQ."

My German to English translator has taken the above statement *crunch crunch* giving us "we don't want to overdrive your subwoofer and break it on you, so do it yourself".

Also, severe dips in response below 100hz at the mic location (caused by room modes) could result in the auto EQ choosing unacceptable gains.

You know what may happen with 15db of boost at 20hz....especially if you are well below the cutoff freq of your sub system......oh boy, some $ could be had in the recone business! :D

Happy listening!

UreiCollector
10-29-2007, 06:36 PM
Pain in the ass dialing it up every time, but I suppose there's a way to use a memory location for a standard setting without EQ. :dont-know

I think they did this so that amplifiers/speakers are not overdriven when turning on the pink noise. Of course a pain for us, but for the guy on the road, it could save on broken equip should something be wired wrong....easy to do when a stage hand is plugging your stuff. :D

UreiCollector
10-29-2007, 06:40 PM
I finally got the RTA to work with the ECM8000 mic..., but:

Even when the amp volume is turned all the way down (no sound from the speakers), the display still dances about (fairly evenly across the band now except for my 60 hz bump, probably due to the unshielded mic cable).

I know the mic is working because the display does go up with a signal from the mic. (While the Max adjustment brings the level down, it's still there.)

Again, is this normal? Is it reading its own background noise?

There will be a noise floor to any analyzer, nature of the beast. What you want to do is to make sure the signal that you want to measure is well above that noise floor to prevent it from "becoming part of" your measurement.

Zilch
11-01-2007, 01:12 AM
A proper mic cable is like $15 at Guitar center.

Get the proper cables and/or adapters.

With the sensitivity turned way up, I can see someone flushing the toilet two blocks away on the display.

Ambient noise.... :yes:

Skywave-Rider
01-04-2008, 09:31 AM
I know this is an older post, but I'd thought I'd chime in since I recently got this unit. Yes you can select frequencies below 80Hz when "autoEQing." When selecting your GEQ target, it defaults, when reset, to excluding those freqs. But you can select them manually by rolling the upper knob to the freq band and clicking the large data wheel to select it. After that,. hit the "page" button to continue with the process. As was stated, be careful, you'll get flat bass in the listening (measurement mic) location, but due to room effects, you might see a lot of boost on some bands. If your woofers/amp can handle it, cool. If you walk out of the sweet spot you might hear tons of low end. Yes I am describing my situation.:) Unfortunately my apt. is not built like a studio control room.

I found this thread to be very helpful. Thanks guys!

Skywave-Rider
01-25-2008, 09:53 AM
After getting more experience with this unit I'm finding this room mode calculator can really help:
http://www.harman.com/xls/Room%20Mode%20Calculator.xls
And also finding the DEQ2496's parametric eq is pretty good.
:)

Zilch
01-30-2008, 02:44 PM
Yes you can select frequencies below 80Hz when "autoEQing." When selecting your GEQ target, it defaults, when reset, to excluding those freqs. But you can select them manually by rolling the upper knob to the freq band and clicking the large data wheel to select it. After that,. hit the "page" button to continue with the process.I don't claim have discovered or to be versed all of the intricacies of DEQ2496 operation, even after several years of using it, but when I reset GEQ from the AutoEQ page, it defaults to all frequencies active. If I do it from the GEQ page first, it excludes the LF below 100 Hz, meaning it locks them at 0 dB and AutoEQ doesn't mess down there. :dunno:

Also know if you hold the L/R button in to activate both channels, you can AutoEQ them both concurrently with one curve, but this requires careful positioning of the mic equidistant from the two speakers, which can easily be done watching the display with the RTA running. That accomplishes "system" average AutoEQ.... :yes: