2405 UHF Clones

[witoman]

I bought a pair of Acoustician 1205 slot UHF drivers off eBay a while back. The seller said that these were manufactured to be clones of the JBL 2405 (or 077) slot driver. There is virtually nothing on the net about Acoustician drivers, let alone the 1205.

Does anyone know something about this driver?

[hjames]

umm, If they aren't JBLs (and they aren't) just assume they are cheap clones??

Acoustician doesn't return any "brand info" in the first 6 pages

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Acoustician&btnG=Search




I bought a pair of Acoustician 1205 slot UHF drivers off eBay a while back. The seller said that these were manufactured to be clones of the JBL 2405 (or 077) slot driver. There is virtually nothing on the net about Acoustician drivers, let alone the 1205.

Does anyone know something about this driver?

[louped garouv]

fostex made some really nice ring radiator clones.....

maybe these are nice too?

hard to tell via photo IMO

[KromeDome]

I bought a pair of these a long time ago that were brand new and sold as "non-working". They both tested as a dead short, so I opened them up to check out why. As expected, it turned out that both were so thrown together that all four lugs from the clone diaphragms were jammed against the magnet assembly. While I had them apart, I noticed that the throat casting was not symmetrical, and that the phase plug was off center in relation to it by quite a bit. Now I have never had genuine 2405s apart, but I assume that the phase plug sits firmly in the center of a symmetrical throat.

I tested them after fixing the shorts, got some sound, and put them away where they have been sitting now for 12-13 years. I do remember being pretty disgusted by the whole experience. For fun, I'll dig them out and take a couple of photos of the internals if I get some spare time in the next couple of days.


I bought a pair of Acoustician 1205 slot UHF drivers off eBay a while back. The seller said that these were manufactured to be clones of the JBL 2405 (or 077) slot driver. There is virtually nothing on the net about Acoustician drivers, let alone the 1205.

Does anyone know something about this driver?

[witoman]

Thanks, that would be interesting.

[witoman]

I would especially like to know is if the 2405 diaphragm kit, D16R2405, could be used in this driver.

[KromeDome]

A couple of different angles to see the asymmetry of the casting.

[KromeDome]

The mylar looks black in these shots, but is actually silver.

[KromeDome]

Not much precision evident here. "Hammertone" paint. :blink:

[scott fitlin]

Marone`A Mi!

What crud.

Why even try to throw good money after bad and try to fit JBL diaphragms in these?

I must say that if money is an issue, and you must have some tweeters, why not go to www.usspeaker.com (http://www.usspeaker.com), and look at the Beyma tweeters? They are copies of JBL style tweeters, not as good as JBL, but factory made and they do work, and are reasonably priced!

At least you would have something that works to a reasonable extent, and Beyma manufacturing is far superior to these Acoustician horrors.

I apologize if you find my words harsh and condescending, but, someone has to tell you the truth!

:banghead:

[scott fitlin]

http://www.usspeaker.com/homepage.htm

Beyma makes a copy of the JBL slot, and they cost a little more than replacement diaphragms for JBL tweeters, but will definitely work better than these Acoustician whatever they are things.

Still not as good as what the REAL JBL tweeters were, but.......

[witoman]

Now tell me what you really think;)

Thanks for the advice and the great photos.

[Maron Horonzakz]

I think its a piece of crap.:D

[hjames]

I think its a piece of crap.:D
Dang, Maron - I said that as the 1st reply, back on the 26th (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=186814&postcount=2) and it still hasn't registered!

really, why buy cheep clones when the real deal is available (at least here or ebay)



I would especially like to know is if the 2405 diaphragm kit, D16R2405, could be used in this driver.

And why even imagine that you could put good JBL diaphrams in cheepo clone drivers?
Thats Crazy-talk!! :applaud:

[scott fitlin]

Now tell me what you really think;)

I "DID" tell you what I really think!

Youre waiting for someone to come along and tell you that what you have are the ultra rare, super collectible, highly sought after Acoustician super tweeters that JBL modelled theirs after and sound superior to the JBL,s?

I dont think you could hold your breath waiting that long! :no:

[Hoerninger]

Now tell me what you really think;)

Thanks for the advice and the great photos.
When these pictures show the way your speakers are manufactured, ... I've never seen such a bad quality.
.
Beyma has already been mentioned.
____________
Peter

[witoman]

I "DID" tell you what I really think!

Youre waiting for someone to come along and tell you that what you have are the ultra rare, super collectible, highly sought after Acoustician super tweeters that JBL modelled theirs after and sound superior to the JBL,s?

I dont think you could hold your breath waiting that long! :no:


This thread is an excellent example of why hi-fi will die along with the old men.

I bought these things for $78 for the pair. I couldn't find anything on the web about them and the seller didn't have them disassembled so that one could the guts like we can here. I bought them knowing that they won't sound as good as the 2405s going on eBay for $350, but I'd never listened to a slot loaded driver before and I wanted to try it out cheaply first. I also knew that could probably unload them for what I paid and even it I couldn't, I had a lot of fun (remember what fun is?) messing with these while making comparisons with other vintage tweeters that I have.

I will eventually buy a pair of 2505s some day. I simply asked in my opening question, "does anyone know something about this driver?" I was actually trying to learn something. Sheeeesh!.

[scott fitlin]

This thread is an excellent example of why hi-fi will die along with the old men.

I bought these things for $78 for the pair. I couldn't find anything on the web about them and the seller didn't have them disassembled so that one could the guts like we can here. I bought them knowing that they won't sound as good as the 2405s going on eBay for $350, but I'd never listened to a slot loaded driver before and I wanted to try it out cheaply first. I also knew that could probably unload them for what I paid and even it I couldn't, I had a lot of fun (remember what fun is?) messing with these while making comparisons with other vintage tweeters that I have.

I will eventually buy a pair of 2505s some day. I simply asked in my opening question, "does anyone know something about this driver?" I was actually trying to learn something. Sheeeesh!.Actually, I more than understand that! However, you asked a question, you got answers, the answers you get here are the answers people really feel and believe.

Then, you asked again, what do you really think?

I really told you what I thought. I actually gave you an economical alternative to your situation! Beyma tweeters. At $139 and change, they are actually well made, and sound pretty good. In all honesty, and with no nastiness, the Beyma tweeters are better made and sound better than your Acoustician tweeters. I know this because I have heard them. Many dance club systems use Beyma tweeters these days BECAUSE JBL no longer makes their tweeters.

You saw the pictures of what you have? The manufacturing tolerances are pretty bad, and the reason JBL or any good device works as well as they do has EVERYTHING to do with being well made, and precision machined parts to tight tolerances. In this case, lets say you have to spend $100ea per JBL diaphragm or more, your actually better off buying the Beymas! No nastiness, its just simple truth and its logical.

You also have one person in this thread that has the same tweeters you have, and he told you they didnt sound good when he got them!

Yeah, you can save up some bucks for used 2405,s that you may find on ebay, and thats just as much of a gamble too! Ask members how many times items arrive not quite as described? I know a guy who got a pair of 2403 cats eye tweeters, working condition off ebay, alnico magnets and all! Problem? When he got them, the diaphragms were blown! Thats ebay for you.

Or you get a pair that works good, but are cosmetically challenged! Can you be happy looking at tweeters that work OK, but dont look good? I couldnt!

Of course, if you want to buy new, and something that will cost you some money, but have a good reputation for sonic excellence, you can always look at Fostex tweeters! www.madisound.com (http://www.madisound.com) sells a wide variety of Fostex tweeters, ranging from economical to VERY expensive!

Again, you asked for answers, we gave them to you. Unfortunately, the truth of the matter is you probably can fit JBL 2405 diaphragms into those Acoustician tweeters, and this does not mean they will perform like a real JBL, at all.

So, thats whats up. IMHO, at $78.00ea, it was still a waste of $156.00 + shipping.

BTW, Im 45 SO I dont think I am an OLD man. But, I do run a pretty big sound system, complete with JBL tweeters of the 2402 and 2404 variety.

You aksed, we answered.

:)

[Earl K]

Hi witoman,


I am continuing with my project to convert an pair of L200's into a pair of quasi-L300's.

Well, I got the rig up and running. L200 cabs with the 136a and LE85/H91/L91 drivers and the 3110 crossovers. I have plugged up one of the two ports. I'm feeding these speakers signals 10 KHz and below and am running a pair of JBL titanium tweeters from 10 KHz and above.


This rig sounds very nice. I'll be on the lookout for a pair of 2405's to round out the quasi-L300.



- Are the above quotes relevant &/or topical to this discussion ?

- You haven't stated whether or not you bought your 2405 wannabes with working diaphragms in them / did you ?
- If they work, what do you think about them ?
- Have you had a chance to measure their frequency response ?
- You'd need to own something like TrueAudios', TrueRTA to get some reasonable measurements ;
http://www.trueaudio.com/images/rta_logo1.gif (http://www.trueaudio.com/rta_abt1.htm)
- It'll generate enough FR info ( of your clones ) to facilitate a meaningfull conversation ( with LHF members ), if your goal is to properly integrate these tweets into your L200s .
- Here's a pic of Widgets' 2405 FR study ( for comparison purposes to any plots you may have generated ) ;

http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=8614&stc=1&d=1119511018

- Click the following pic for an EBay offer ;
http://i23.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/a6/a9/30f9_1_b.JPG (http://cgi.ebay.com/Free-Ship-for-JBL-Diaphragm-2404-2405-H-8-ohm-driver_W0QQitemZ170155050697QQihZ007QQcategoryZ470 92QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotoh osting)

- It's an aftermarket diaphragm for the 2405H. At $ 34.00 ( including the free shipping ) it represents a small investment that will give you some idea if your Acousticians will accept the stock JBL diaphragm .

- Before buying , you may want to disassemble one of your tweeters so that you can measure the diameter of the gap ( ie; width of the voice-coil ). It needs to be 1.75" ( spot-on, centre of gap to centre of gap ) to accept the JBL diaphragm ( or the aftermarket, if the aftermarket is well built ). Other physical measurements will also be critical for a successful fitup ( such as the depth of gap ) . Though, even if you get these specs. from your Acoustician, it's unlikely you'll get enough accurate info to "guarantee" that a JBL will fit ( ie; it's easier to just buy a cloned diaphragm to see how "it" fits / & then "interpret" that experience before moving to purchase bonafide JBL diaphragms ).

- You'll also want to know the magnetic flux level in the gap of your clones, to get an idea if the Acousticians' magnetic assembly is as astrong as the JBLs' ( ie; does the Acoustician generate enough magnetic "juice" to work well with a JBL diaphragm ( ie; making all this mixing & matching worthwhile ).
- Measurement equipment ( for flux level in a gap ) is available . Cost for these specialized meters ( with an appropriate probe for small gaps ) is all over the map .
:)

[glen]

I "DID" tell you what I really think!

I think that the winking emoticon
;) made it pretty clear that witoman was kidding.

You're not REALLY a bashful flower who must be gently persuaded to voice your honest opinion. And please don't become one, because this would be a much more boring and uninformative place if you did.

Now if we can only bring the shy and retiring Maron Horonzakz out of his shell . . .

[scott fitlin]

I think that the winking emoticon made it pretty clear that witoman was kidding.

You're not REALLY a bashful flower who must be gently persuaded to voice your honest opinion. And please don't become one, because this would be a much more boring and uninformative place if you did.:rotfl:

Me? Bashful? Gentle?

I told him the truth, as I see it, and so did others.

I loved Witomans statement about Hi Fi dying along with the old men! Hi Fi isnt going to die along with the old men, Hi Fi died already, due to many reasons! Home Theater, iPods and downloads, the extreme expense of high quality Hi Fi, and last but NOT least, The Computer Age! After all, where are we right now? Listening to Hi Fi? Or chatting and talking on the computer?

:dont-know

[Ian Mackenzie]

My Eyes must be Wide Shut then!:)

[hjames]

Really, the folks who are listening to their systems right now aren't speaking at this very moment (they'll probably be along a bit later once they've flipped the record.)

HiFi was a term of the 50s wasn't it? Originally not even stereo ...
HiFi was never something for the masses anyway, was it?
HiFi died years ago - one ancient label expires but we are Music lovers - much different.

Besides, now that they overcompress so much of the music, the only pristene sounds for us who care is to hunt down old records, to preserve a dying medium ...

Either that or take all those black pizzas out for a few rounds of skeet ...

PULL!!

:rotfl:




Me? Bashful? Gentle?

I told him the truth, as I see it, and so did others.

I loved Witomans statement about Hi Fi dying along with the old men! Hi Fi isnt going to die along with the old men, Hi Fi died already, due to many reasons! Home Theater, iPods and downloads, the extreme expense of high quality Hi Fi, and last but NOT least, The Computer Age! After all, where are we right now? Listening to Hi Fi? Or chatting and talking on the computer?

:dont-know

[scott fitlin]

HiFi was a term of the 50s wasn't it? Originally not even stereo ...
HiFi was never something for the masses anyway, was it?
HiFi died years ago - one ancient label expires but we are Music lovers - much different.

Besides, now that they overcompress so much of the music, the only pristene sounds for us who care is to hunt down old records, to preserve a dying medium ..

:rotfl:Yes, totally agree.

But you already know it. Hi Fi means High Fidelity. And so much of todays recordings are anything but high fidelity, and for that reason, I say hi fi died years ago.

IMHO, the better your speakers are, the more revealing of the quality of the recordings you play they are!

Ill have to admit, that when I do want to hear something good, I am digging into recordings of the past!

:)

[witoman]

a) The winking emoticon meant that I was kidding.

b) I paid $78 for the pair of el cheapo slot loaded tweeters, not twice that.

c) Hindsight is always 20/20. I didn't know much about them and I took a chance in buying them.

d) I wouldn't buy another pair now that the evidence is in. *Now* there is something on the internet about these things.

e) I've taken a lot of advice from this forum in working up some quasi-L300s from L-200As. Still trying to get the tweeters right.

f) I had the obviously mistaken notion that this forum was meant to be collegial and supportive of people who share a love for vintage JBL equipment. Certainly not the case in this thread. This has turned into a just a mean spirited debating society. Boring.

g) You are only as old as you think.

[hjames]

I upped a pair of 4320s into Quasi-4333s and then Quasi-300s over the past 2 years - currently using L200 cabs with 4320s (& short horns), 2235s and 2405s with homebuilt versions of Giskard's 3133 equivalent crossover circuits here. I even posted public threads discussing the project (as have many other who have done the same thing).

It can be done and it can be discussed collegially - if you are willing to be honest and open to the folks here as they are to you.

But your thread turned into a time waster with questions like "can I put Lansing diaphrams in my cheapo copycat tweeters?" :bs:
Who'd put $100 ea diaphrams into such junk? Really, who cares? Just pitch 'em - lesson learned cheaply.

Thats insulting to the company (known for making quality gear) and to the whole idea for this form (discussing and supporting the products of James B Lansing's companies). Its a waste of everyone's time.

Now - are you gonna take a fair run at this L200A upgrade project, or just dink around with it and insult people?

The forum is only as boring as you make it -
some folks have a real rich life off-screen ...:D


a)

e) I've taken a lot of advice from this forum in working up some quasi-L300s from L-200As. Still trying to get the tweeters right.

f) I had the obviously mistaken notion that this forum was meant to be collegial and supportive of people who share a love for vintage JBL equipment. Certainly not the case in this thread. This has turned into a just a mean spirited debating society. Boring.

[pos]

But your thread turned into a time waster with questions like "can I put Lansing diaphrams in my cheapo copycat tweeters?" :bs:
Who'd put $100 ea diaphrams into such junk? Really, who cares? Just pitch 'em - lesson learned cheaply.
Why are you so picky?
This question arised in post #6, before KromeDome posted photos of the internals, and also before Scott had posted anything. There were no evidences these drivers where pieces of crap at that time, so the question was legitimate.
Now we all know what these drivers are worth, thanks to this thread, and its on the internet on a public forum. That is great.
You can choose to turn this thread into a no end debate about the good old times :blah: or live it as it is now: a reference thread that people
can find when searching information about these clones.

[Hoerninger]

I would especially like to know is if the 2405 diaphragm kit, D16R2405, could be used in this driver.

How should we know when it is not JBL and we do not know what is inside?

... into a no end debate about the good old timesThe only question left is crap or no crap. It is always a possible result if you buy for cheap it may be for trash. It is ones own decision and risk.
____________
Peter

[Maron Horonzakz]

Glen....I could never be accused of being shy...The scars of bitten ankels on this forum prove that... I had purchased Accousticion parts before..From a company in Chicago,, IMAGE comm. So i am fammiliar with the poor quality of that product. So no matter how you dice and slice crap,,,it was still crap.. I dont like mincing my opionion with diplomacy..alot could get lost in the interpratation.;)

[Zilch]

Where does the "Trust your ears; it's the MUSIC, stupid!" contingent stand on this issue? :D

Frankly, I see no harm in evaluating alternative gear in comparison to the known Lansing standards. Thus far, not many knock-off or aftermarket offerings have proven up to the task.

Are we surprised? If any of it WERE good, we'd surely want to know, wouldn't we? :thmbsup:

[glen]

Glen....I could never be accused of being shy...The scars of :biting: bitten ankels :biting: on this forum prove that...
Really?? You're not shy?? :blink:
I never knew.;)

I had purchased Accousticion parts before..From a company in Chicago,, IMAGE comm. So i am fammiliar with the poor quality of that product. So no matter how you dice and slice crap,,,it was still crap.. I dont like mincing my opionion with diplomacy..alot could get lost in the interpratation.;)
But you see, you ARE coming out of your shell with this enlightening expansion on your original, abbreviated, reply:

I think its a piece of crap.:D
I bought a few small things from Image. They carried some good brands and some that seemed too cheap to be good.
Sorry you got burned by the Acoustician products, but thanks for sharing your bad experience with the forum.

It's too late for witoman, but others will know better than to get suckered in by these cheapos and save their bucks for the good stuff

[Maron Horonzakz]

Yup...I do leave scars. I like to be a man of few words...But if necessary Ill elaborate..;)

[witoman]

Update. I got the Acoustician 1205 driver back from repair. It had a loose connection to the diaphram and was simply soldered back into place, tested and returned to me. The work was done by Music Technology (MT) of Springfield, VA (www.musictechnology.com (http://www.musictechnology.com)). They are a JBL factory authorized service center. The repair cost was $58 (they charge for anything that hits their bench).

MT tells me that the diaphram in this driver is for a JBL 2402. I took it home, and put it into my system (tri-amped L200Bs with the upper crossover at 7kHz). Sounded pretty good to my ears. Being a rock 'n' roller, the test recording that I use is Iggy Pop's "Lust for Life" cut (1977). I love JBL's big sound on this period piece because the drums should just leap out at you. They did. The Acoustician kept up just fine with the LE85s, no doubt because of the 2402 diaphram.

It did not sound like "crap".

I'm now saving my nickles and dimes to get the 2405s (again, as the last ones I bought on eBay never arrived and the seller skipped). But in the meantime, this is a very fun sounding rig. More fiddling to go.

[louped garouv]

glad to hear you like them...

:)

[scott fitlin]

Update. I got the Acoustician 1205 driver back from repair. It had a loose connection to the diaphram and was simply soldered back into place, tested and returned to me. The work was done by Music Technology (MT) of Springfield, VA (www.musictechnology.com (http://www.musictechnology.com)). They are a JBL factory authorized service center. The repair cost was $58 (they charge for anything that hits their bench).

MT tells me that the diaphram in this driver is for a JBL 2402. I took it home, and put it into my system (tri-amped L200Bs with the upper crossover at 7kHz). Sounded pretty good to my ears. Being a rock 'n' roller, the test recording that I use is Iggy Pop's "Lust for Life" cut (1977). I love JBL's big sound on this period piece because the drums should just leap out at you. They did. The Acoustician kept up just fine with the LE85s, no doubt because of the 2402 diaphram.

It did not sound like "crap".

I'm now saving my nickles and dimes to get the 2405s (again, as the last ones I bought on eBay never arrived and the seller skipped). But in the meantime, this is a very fun sounding rig. More fiddling to go.The 2402 diaphragm is different than the 2405. The 2405 has a lighter phragm and goes up higher, and its audible.

But, if you like the sound of these with 2402 phragms, you might also like the 2402! Crossed at 7K with just a few watts they have that classic hi hat sound, and sizzle. The only thing bad about bullets is they are beamy. But they sound great with classic rock.

A real 2405 slot needs to be crossed over higher, 8K maybe higher, they dont sound proper at 7K. Crossed lower then 8K they sound rough and harsh, the 2405 pragm likes 8K or better. They have wider dispersion, but also are slightly beamy to my ears. Youll get extension past the limits of audibility, and have less sixzzle, and a more delicate, sounding top end. Matter of fact, I have a few freinds in the sound buisiness that actually prefer the sound of the JBL 2405 with the 2402 diaphragm instead of the 2405 part. I never tried this, so I cant say what it does or doesnt do, but the two people I know that do this swear by it.

If your really serious about getting some slots, I have six brand new in the original boxes. PM me if you like, Ill tell they will cost you a few pennies more than Ebay, BUT, I will guarantee what I sell, and if you arent satisfied Ill take them back and return your money. You can be sure, that if you buy from me, YOU WILL GET THEM! I HATE ebay these days. You didnt get what you paid for, I have recieved items that were completey broken, etc.

:)