Has JBL become ID only?

[MJC]

Since I was working, for the past couple of days, in an area north of Reno, where there are a gross of new stores, I thought I would check out the new BB and CC.
Talk about two stores being video only, its not quite that bad, but almost.
No JBLs in either store, of any size, and if it wasn't for the Mag. HT corner in BB, neither store would have much of anything I would call a speaker. Can you spell Bose?
CC did have a couple of Boston speaker systems.
I know that BB does sell JBLs online, I checked the other day. And its been quite a few years since CC sold JBLs
So that leaves Fry's as the only store, that I know of that sells JBLs. Tweeters did, but most, or at least many of them have closed up.

[Titanium Dome]

If it hasn't happened literally, it's only a matter of inevitability.

What store is going to carry a product that goobers will come to listen to then go off and buy online? No one who wants to stay in business, that's for sure.

Since Bose controls things much more tightly, it can still be featured in stores because the price is going to be kept up no matter where it's sold.

Of course, it's always possible to buck the trend. Apple seemed to be able to beat back the dogs of doom by opening its own stores instead of depending on resellers who'd keep its products on a back shelf, or turned off, or not even on display.

[MJC]

Ya, The E Warehouse, where a couple of guys here have bought the Studio L series for 1/2 the price that Fry's was selling them for. That E store isn't an authroized JBL dealer, but JBL must be selling the units to them for much less than 1/2 for E to make a profit.
It was only a couple of decades ago you never saw JBLs sold at discount prices, and were only sold at better HiFi shops.
But it also seems that stores like BB and CC, differ greatly from one location to another as to what they sell. One guy over at AVS was looking at the Venue series at a BB, where he lives and two of the BBs here won't have any JBLs at all. Not sure about the first BB that was in Reno, as I haven't been in there in about 2 years.

[Pyromania]

Speaking of Best Buy, I was browsing their website tonight and noticed that on their site "Available For Online Orders Only", they have the LC1 & L8400, but don't have the L810's, L820's, L830's, LC2, L880's, or L890's, go figure.

In a way I guess it's cool, but also somewhat retarded. I mean why the hell offer the LC1, yet nothing else in the studio series other then the L8400 subwoofer. :banghead:

Well that's Best Buy for ya, go figure.

Oh, here in my area they do still have the Venue series in their stores, FWIW.

[ColdFyre22]

Ya, The E Warehouse, where a couple of guys here have bought the Studio L series for 1/2 the price that Fry's was selling them for. That E store isn't an authroized JBL dealer, but JBL must be selling the units to them for much less than 1/2 for E to make a profit.
It was only a couple of decades ago you never saw JBLs sold at discount prices, and were only sold at better HiFi shops.
But it also seems that stores like BB and CC, differ greatly from one location to another as to what they sell. One guy over at AVS was looking at the Venue series at a BB, where he lives and two of the BBs here won't have any JBLs at all. Not sure about the first BB that was in Reno, as I haven't been in there in about 2 years.

My local best buy's in Miami all have the JBL venue series for sale and on display..

[Thom]

I don't know why junk with the JBL name on it shocks us, or at least me, so. Many of the names, that today we only associate with junk, were at one time esoteric. Fischer, KLH, Stromberg Carlson, Scott are but a few of the names that at one time adorned what at least some people considered "state of the art" pieces of equipment. I wonder if this isn't just unavoidable in a capitalist economy. With success comes junk. I'm not proposing another system, just pointing out a terrible flaw in this one. Somehow Wall street and the need for 90 day profits is incompatible with quality. I better get off of my soap box now. No telling who made it or out of what.

[Titanium Dome]

I don't know why junk with the JBL name on it shocks us, or at least me, so. Many of the names, that today we only associate with junk, were at one time esoteric. Fischer, KLH, Stromberg Carlson, Scott are but a few of the names that at one time adorned what at least some people considered "state of the art" pieces of equipment. I wonder if this isn't just unavoidable in a capitalist economy. With success comes junk. I'm not proposing another system, just pointing out a terrible flaw in this one. Somehow Wall street and the need for 90 day profits is incompatible with quality. I better get off of my soap box now. No telling who made it or out of what.

MJC wasn't characterizing anything as junk, and no else did either. Also, no one here seemed shocked about anything.

I don't understand your post. Is it in the wrong thread?

[RKLee]

Many of the bigger hi-fi sellers stopped making the hi-end stuff and sold the name to another concern. That other concern sells are much as they can before the public realizes that the stuff is just. Remember the name SAE?

[hjames]

Many of the bigger hi-fi sellers stopped making the hi-end stuff and sold the name to another concern. That other concern sells as much as they can before the public realizes that the stuff is just ...
Remember the name SAE?

Many of those other companies were slipping in marketshare BEFORE they sold out. We've posted a number of articles in the last 6 months that show how Harman Kardon (the parent company of JBL) is doing just fine. (I know I posted one from the Washington Post Financial section).

I think folks would say that McIntosh (for example) is doing quite well after their "sale".

Exactly what other companies are you refering to?

[edgewound]

Exactly what other companies are you refering to?

Acoustic Research, Advent, KLH...all founded by Henry Kloss...who was reputed to be a not very good businessman, but established some nice brands.

Marantz, Sansui, Denon, McIntosh...That's right, D&M.

All these companies have the same thing in common with our beloved JBL...they've all been sold to corporations that know how to exploit a coveted brand name to wring the last penny out of the bottom line. All these companies go through cycles of climbing the hill to get back to customer perceived quality and high value...

Then back to declining quality while ringout out profits...then either sell the brand with the promise of legacy quality coming back, or plowing back profits to rebuild their reputation again.

This all kind of tracks with the economy as a whole.

[scott fitlin]

Many of the bigger hi-fi sellers stopped making the hi-end stuff and sold the name to another concern. That other concern sells are much as they can before the public realizes that the stuff is just. Remember the name SAE?In 1973, SAE was great stuff!

[RKLee]

In 1973, SAE was great stuff!Scientific Audio Engineering, based in Los Angeles, I used to passby their HQ near downtown L.A.(Macy & Mission Rd) on the way to work. They made wonderful SotA high end gear(way too expensive for a person on a student's income back then), but unfortunately they were better engineers than were businessman.

Anyways I hope this is not the case for JBL.

[scott fitlin]

Scientific Audio Engineering, based in Los Angeles, I used to passby their HQ near downtown L.A.(Macy & Mission Rd) on the way to work. They made wonderful SotA high end gear(way too expensive for a person on a student's income back then), but unfortunately they were better engineers than were businessman.

Anyways I hope this is not the case for JBL.Sadly, there are many once great brands no longer around, simply because they werent good buisiness people, NOT because they didnt make great audio gear.

[Titanium Dome]

:DWell, after this nice walk down memory lane, you all sound like my grandpa groaning about the good ol' days and how things have/are going to heck in a handcart. All of which i've read in infinitum, ad nauseum many times here and elsewhere.

Since MJC's thread is now fully off track, let me try to cheer up all you gloomy Gusses with some cliched happy lyrics from Bye Bye Birdie, back when musicals were musicals and stars were stars and they made real songs on real vinyl and amps had tubes, not the c-r-a-p they put out today:

Put On A Happy Face(JBL remix)

Gray skies are gonna clear up,
Put on a happy face;
Brush off the clouds and cheer up,
Put on a happy face.
Take off the gloomy mask of tragedy,
It's not your style;
You'll look so good that you'll be glad
Ya' decide to smile!
Pick out a pleasant outlook,
Stick out that noble chin;
Wipe off that "full of doubt" look,
Slap on a happy grin!
And spread sunshine all over the place,
Just put on a happy face!
Put on a happy face
Put on a happy face
And if you're feeling cross and bitterish
Don't sit and whine
Think of Everest II and AquaPlas
And you'll feel fine
I knew a JBL fan so glooming
He'd never laugh or sing
He wouldn't listen to Ti domes
Now he's a mean old thing
So spread sunshine all over the place
Just put on a happy face
So, put on a happy face

:D:applaud::D :dancin:

[scott fitlin]

Ti, do you have the lyrics of this song from the 2007 Vertec Mix version?

The version mastered for digital playback!

Actually, in all fairness, IF some of the brands we once knew as GREAT sounding audio were still with us today, what would they be making now? Would they be doing things as they used to? Or would they too be doing what is current technology, and even designing here, and assembling in China!

I happened to be looking at a Klark Teknik EQ on ebay today, the purple one, I forget the model, but on the back, it clearly says, Desinged In England, Assembled In China!

This is how it is today.



:D

[edgewound]

... but on the back, it clearly says, Desinged In England, Assembled In China!

This is how it is today.

:D

And on that note....

Have you heard what is going on in China these days? What with tainted, poisonous products for kids...tainted poisonous toothpaste...and pet food...and human food...consumer electronics manufacturing empires reliant on a handful of Brand names....tainted Chinese executives that have been on the take, and then executed or committing suicide as a way out...And....the worst pollution on the planet.

Frankly, I'm glad...thankful to be an American.

But...China has so much to lose that they will only get more determined to not lose customers nor the standing on global manufacturing.

This cheap product party can't last forever, because in time the global regulatory playing field will level and China will have to participate or create a climate of globally illegal products.

What's the other long term choice? Armageddon?

I'm not making this up. Competition will be alive and well all over....eventually.

How's that for staying off topic? Actually...I thinks it's relevant

[MJC]

:DWell, after this nice walk down memory lane, you all sound like my grandpa groaning about the good ol' days and how things have/are going to heck in a handcart. All of which i've read in infinitum, ad nauseum many times here and elsewhere.

Since MJC's thread is now fully off track, let me try to cheer up all you gloomy Gusses with some cliched happy lyrics from Bye Bye Birdie, back when musicals were musicals and stars were stars and they made real songs on real vinyl and amps had tubes, not the c-r-a-p they put out today:.....

:D:applaud::D :dancin:
Only Ti would come up with that, and was I shocked to see all these replies. Yesterday I figured this thread was dead.

But as many of us remember, JBL was only sold in limited HiFi shops in the '60's~'70's, and never sold at a discount, unless you were buying the store floor models. I forget the exact phase, but something like this was stated: JBL is a fair trade item.

How can the prestise of JBL continue when they are sold in places like BB and then online by unauthorized etailers, at 1/2 of list.
Ya, all of us here know about the 300~400 back orders for the DD66000, @ $60K/pr. But a lot of others don't.

29 years ago I was able to go into a hifi shop in LV and buy JBL's then top of the line L212. Even in '87~'89 I saw the 250Ti in CC. I haven't seen any hi-end JBLs in this state since. Granted NV is not NY or CA, but still.

[scott fitlin]

And on that note....

Have you heard what is going on in China these days? What with tainted, poisonous products for kids...tainted poisonous toothpaste...and pet food...and human food...consumer electronics manufacturing empires reliant on a handful of Brand names....tainted Chinese executives that have been on the take, and then executed or committing suicide as a way out...And....the worst pollution on the planet.

Frankly, I'm glad...thankful to be an American.

But...China has so much to lose that they will only get more determined to not lose customers nor the standing on global manufacturing.

This cheap product party can't last forever, because in time the global regulatory playing field will level and China will have to participate or create a climate of globally illegal products.

What's the other long term choice? Armageddon?

I'm not making this up. Competition will be alive and well all over....eventually.

How's that for staying off topic? Actually...I thinks it's relevant How many Mattel toys were recalled? They know they have to do something, and they will.

China is in its infancy as a manufacturing capitol. They, if they get their game under control, will at somepoint become leaders in the field, and then, at that point, when they are good enough, will no longer need American companies to manufacture for, they will manufacture and market under their own brands. AND, people WILL buy Chinese made brands. As you said, they know they have too much to lose.

As has been stated only 5 million times already, remember when made In Japan, meant second rate goods? Japnese Auto industry kicked the American Auto industries ass!

About pollution! Well, in the 1960,s and well into the 1970,s the places where we manufacture in the Untied States was also filthy and polluted galore. It is in the last 20 years or so thet we really have become very concerned with envoiromental pollution, and ecologically safe products.

China will get good, and they will want to keep their new found manufacturing empire alive and kicking, so they do what they have to to keep it, I think!

About cheap product, as Im understanding it, Chinese companies are already telling companies they OEM for they wont make certain things at a price below what they cant do it properly for. Too cheap is no good, it will not help, only hurt, as cheaply made will not last, they already know this.

Just like the Japanese auto industry, its too late, China has already gotten their foot in the door.

But, I, too, am glad to be an American!

[edgewound]

29 years ago I was able to go into a hifi shop in LV and buy JBL's then top of the line L212. Even in '87~'89 I saw the 250Ti in CC. I haven't seen any hi-end JBLs in this state since. Granted NV is not NY or CA, but still.

MJC...

I think most of JBL's Hi end product is going into Hi End custom install home theater systems....Synthesis and Everest II. With the current mortgage industry fallout, though, that log of business could very well be in peril.

With that type of business, most of the good goods aren't on display in a showroom...and unfortunatley the entry level and mid level price points are displayed to the masses.

The only place that was a national chain that would carry the PT series is now bankrupt....Tweeter.

Seems the only way to stay in business these days is to either be very small....or very big.

[Pyromania]

Wow, so much for trying to join in on a conversation here, everyone just blew right by my post with nothing to add or comment on. lol

It's cool though, all things considered, what I had to share really isn't that important. Just something I thought I'd comment on since Best Buy was mentioned.

[MJC]

I think most of JBL's Hi end product is going into Hi End custom install home theater systems....Synthesis and Everest II. With the current mortgage industry fallout, though, that log of business could very well be in peril.

I see the PS as a pivot product. That is, it is between the high end(Everest, K2, Array) and the mid level (Studio L series and on down).
But there is a very large gap, price wise, between the upper and mid, even with the PS in between.
And yet, the PS can only be bought, for the most part, thru Synthesis.
Yes, Tweeters did have them, but Fry's don't and others of like stores.
And compared to anything available in Magnolia HT, PS blows them away.
I consider the PS to be too good to be kept hidden.

I find it just sicking to walk into any CE store, walk along one complete row of shelves and see bose crap from one end to the other. And don't see ANY JBLs, anywhere.



Wow, so much for trying to join in on a conversation here, everyone just blew right by my post with nothing to add or comment on. lol

It's cool though, all things considered, what I had to share really isn't that important. Just something I thought I'd comment on since Best Buy was mentioned.

I read your post, and agree, why sell one or two parts of a series and not the rest. It seems that Tweeters did the same, sold the PT800, but not the PC600 or the PS1400.

[scott fitlin]

Wow, so much for trying to join in on a conversation here, everyone just blew right by my post with nothing to add or comment on. lol

It's cool though, all things considered, what I had to share really isn't that important. Just something I thought I'd comment on since Best Buy was mentioned.We didnt mean to blow you off, we get carried away when it comes to JBL, :D

[Pyromania]

Oh it's cool guys, no worries on my end believe me. I'm still trying to piece my Studio L Series system together.

I've been eyeballing E Warehouse alot. I know they're not a quote unquote authorized dealer, but for those prices I don't care. I figured for the dough I'll be saving, I could easily afford to fix any problem that surfaced, if one ever did.


The only thing that I do not like about E Warehouse, is the fact that the only JBL's they carry are in black. Which is cool you know, I mean most of my past systems have been in black, but I really have my eye on the Beech finish. Just looks sexy as hell to me, for some odd reason. lol

I've also thought about running down to the local Best Buy and picking up some JBL Venue speakers for my living room. Not the greatest, I know, but for a second budget system for the living room, I can't help but think they would suffice. Maybe I should comb ebay for some older vintage stuff for the living room, instead?

[scott fitlin]

Combing ebay for vintage JBL is either a crapshoot, or very pricey for good stuff.

Sometimes you find something, it might need repairs, and that can get expensive, and you have to make sure you can get the parts youll need, etc, etc.

About the Studio L series, the L880 and L890 got great reveiws, even in Stereophile magazine.

They are worth giving a listen to, and are reasonably priced, might be a great option!

[Pyromania]

Combing ebay for vintage JBL is either a crapshoot, or very pricey for good stuff.

Sometimes you find something, it might need repairs, and that can get expensive, and you have to make sure you can get the parts youll need, etc, etc.

About the Studio L series, the L880 and L890 got great reveiws, even in Stereophile magazine.

They are worth giving a listen to, and are reasonably priced, might be a great option!
Well, believe it or not, the Studio L's are going down in my theater room. The Venue's or whatever would be going in the living room, as a budget secondary system.

If I had my way, I'd do even better then the Studio L's for my theater room, but I just can't right now. I've just got too many coals in the fire. I'm going to be relocating to London England before too long, and I make a lot of trips back and forth from the U.S. to there, and, well, I won't bore you with the other details.

I've heard the Studio L820's and L890's, both in which I'll be going with, and I was very happy, pleased, and satisfied with what I heard. In fact, they actually impressed the hell out of me, because I wasn't expecting them to be as good as they are considering their price point. I'm used to spending a hell of lot more on my speakers then what they cost. So, considering they're as good as what they are, at the price point in which they are, that's just icing on the cake for me.

[scott fitlin]

And thats pretty much how Stereophile said it too! They sounded great, and considering how much they cost, they sound even better.

They are supposed to have very good bass, and not fake, boomy bass. Bass that gets down fairly deep considering the woofers size, and again, they dont cost a fortune.

Hey, if they are good, its a great price, you cant beat it, go for them, and enjoy!

:)

[Pyromania]

I don't want to get too off topic here, but does anybody know how the new ES Series compare to the Studio L Series?

I'm just wondering if I should possibly give the ES Series some consideration, or simply stick with the Studio L's?

[Ian Mackenzie]

MJC,

You might want to pm Porschedpm, he's up in Reno somewhere and is a JBL nut.

You might also try some Pro Musicstores. At least down here JBL have a reasonable brand profile in that category.

[MJC]

I don't want to get too off topic here, but does anybody know how the new ES Series compare to the Studio L Series?

I'm just wondering if I should possibly give the ES Series some consideration, or simply stick with the Studio L's?
There is no ES series on JBL's web site. And if there is such a thing I doubt they'd be as good as the Studio L series.

[MJC]

MJC,

You might want to pm Porschedpm, he's up in Reno somewhere and is a JBL nut.

You might also try some Pro Musicstores. At least down here JBL have a reasonable brand profile in that category.
I've only seen one store in Reno that had any JBLs besides BB and they only had a small pair of JBL Pro and were just sitting on a shelf, not hooked up. I really don't need anymore speakers, it just irritates me at the lack of places around here that sell JBL.

[Titanium Dome]

There is no ES series on JBL's web site. And if there is such a thing I doubt they'd be as good as the Studio L series.

Check it out:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=16995

[MJC]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titanium Dome http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=172170#post172170)
The tower has some old and some new. The dual woofers and single midrange look like standard issue PolyPlas drivers, but the double EOS Waveguide for the HF and UHF is a first.

The cabinet sports those goofy feet.

The baffle flowing up and back to become the top is, well, ...what it is.

The tower is $500 ($1000 for a pair).

I remember seeing those towers last Jan. on the net. during the CES, But I had forgotten all about them. But I was right, they are still below the Studio L, as I said.

[Titanium Dome]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titanium Dome http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=172170#post172170)
The tower has some old and some new. The dual woofers and single midrange look like standard issue PolyPlas drivers, but the double EOS Waveguide for the HF and UHF is a first.

The cabinet sports those goofy feet.

The baffle flowing up and back to become the top is, well, ...what it is.

The tower is $500 ($1000 for a pair).

I remember seeing those towers last Jan. on the net. during the CES, But I had forgotten all about them. But I was right, they are still below the Studio L, as I said.

Since we haven't heard them, I can't give carte banche on that yet. ;) In some respects they may show advancements since the Studio L Series was released. I think this discussion has moved over to the ES Series thread, so I'll go there with any additional thoughts.

[JLR10]

Anyone know where SAE components can be competently repaired?

[Hofmannhp]

Anyone know where SAE components can be competently repaired?

Hi JLR,

pls ask saeman / IL in this forum

HP

[JLR10]

Thanks. I have pm'd him. I have an SAE Mark XXIV amp, Mark IXB pre-amp and Mark VIII tuner. Don't get any signal from the tuner to the preamp and the signal strength and tuning meters don't work. Also have a Tandberg 10XD, Nakamichi LX-5 cassette deck, Harmon Kardon Rabco ST7 turntable, Stax SRD-7 phones and Infiniti monitor/speakers. I haven't even turned it on much in the past 20 years.