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johnaec
08-06-2007, 05:40 PM
OK - time for this year's report on the annual "Jerry Day" gig Bo does sound for, held at the Jerry Garcia Amphitheater in McLaren Park, San Francisco.

I didn't get there until almost 3pm this time, so I missed some of the early music. Workingman's Ed was playing as we arrived - I could hear the kick drum way before anything else, (which thankfully appeared to be turned down shortly thereafter!).

Sound was very good, but Bo will have to fill you in on all the equipment used. Weather was overcast this time, but that didn't seem to dampen anyone's spirits!

I've posted some pics below.

First is Bo in his usual position, (FOH).
Second is Workingman's Ed.
Third is Melvin Seals and the JGB.
Fourth is one side of the stage. I'm not sure what speaker cabinets those are, but there were stacks of Lab Gruppen amps!
Last is a pic of the crowd, up towards Bo's position. The seats were empty a littl here because it was either a break or they were dancing, (it was so crowded my GF and I had to sit on the grass!).

A great time was had by all! And great sound, Bo!

John

Mr. Widget
08-06-2007, 06:21 PM
Lookin' good there Bo... sorry I missed it.

Looks like you had a good turn out despite the typical SF summer weather. :(


Widget

boputnam
08-06-2007, 07:04 PM
Hey...

Thanks for the nudge.

Tremendous day of music. The bands were all excellent, and great people to work with. A great tribute to the work of Jerry.

Jelly (http://www.jellymusic.com)
Workingman's Ed (http://www.workingmansed.com)
JGB Band (http://www.jgbband.com)

The weather, well, it is San Francisco in the summer... :(, but it is Jerry Day in San Francisco!! :applaud:

The system comprised L-Acoustics (http://www.l-acoustics.com/site-US/produitsus.htm) ARCS (arrayed 4 per side) a-top 2 SB218 subs. I spec'd this cabinet configuration for this year - I wasn't completely happy with the mid-bass response last year. The improvement was remarkable. Coverage, as last-year, was seamless, and tonality remarkable. We used two of my 115XT's as center fills (plenty). Driveracks were xta 448's and LabGruppen amps (~40,000w total). Overall, about the perfect system for that venue. FOH and monitorworld were Yamaha PM4000 (and 4000M); we used only 7 mixes on stage. The Yammies are terrific desks - clean, tons of headroom and (again...) great tonality. They weight over 1,000-lbs in the roadcase, so getting it to FOH up that hill is a difficult challenge. Anyway... Fully parametric EQ on every strip. Outboard gear was mixed, a dozen 160A's (http://www.dbxpro.com/160A/160A.php) (love these), couple 1066's (http://www.dbxpro.com/1066/1066.php) (wasn't as fond of these), couple DS404's (http://www.drawmer.com/ds404.html)(these are OK - I prefer/am used to the response of the KT DN514+ (http://www.klarkteknik.com/dn500series.html)), and a dbx162 SL (http://www.dbxpro.com/162SL/162SL.php) across the stereo buss (I like this a lot, but get by with my Drawmer 1968 (http://www.drawmer.com/1968.html) just fine, and it takes only 1RU... ;)).

System gear came from Sound on Stage (http://www.soundonstage.com/). An amazing group to work with. Two 16-ft trucks (due to access issues) and four smiling guys (systems engineer, monitor engineer, head tech and crew). I use them every chance I get... :applaud:

Rental Hammond B3 (for Melvin Seals, JGB), Ampeg SVT bass rig (for Marty Holland, JGB) and DW Kit (for Dave Kemper, JGB) were provided by Studio Instrument Rentals, SF (http://www.sirsf.com/). On-time, effecient, as-promised and lightening quick on load out. Thanks, SIR!! Lastly, Generators Unlimited (http://www.generatorsunlimited.com/) provided the trailer-mounted gen set (24 KW, 250 amp). I've had two gigs with GU over the past two-weeks and they are flawlessly reliable. Thank-you!

Crowd estimate was 3,500 strong. I'm guessing john's picture showed some vacant seats from people queued for the loo... :p

boputnam
08-06-2007, 07:22 PM
...I could hear the kick drum way before anything else, (which thankfully appeared to be turned down shortly thereafter!). :no:

Workingman's Ed had two full Kits, and one of them has two kicks (do the math... lol), so, it can get pretty punchy!

I'm guessing your arrival time was during dual drummers, and they finished their set with only the one (thus the change). As well, there could have been some coupling with the hillside during your walk in - I was told it sounded good over the hilll... :dont-know

Mr. Widget
08-07-2007, 12:25 AM
I was told it sounded good over the hilll...:rotfl:


Widget

boputnam
08-14-2007, 05:45 AM
Out of interest, are the brands L-Acoustics and d&b audiotechnik getting much exposure in the US?The L-Acoustics are.

I myself own some, and spec them on bid requests. Just did a show with the ARCS and SB218's with excellent results...

Don't know the d&b line.

Andyoz
08-14-2007, 05:56 AM
Any more photos Rich, I am trying to figure out exactly how you configured that system in that room?

Bo, the venue refurbishment we are currently working on has ARCS and SB218's as part of the spec. They have also included the 4no. dv-Sub that will sit under the ARCS. I don't really get why they are using the dv-Sub and SB218 but I'm leaving it to the experts! It a very long, narrow venue and I am glad they are going with the ARCS with their controlled dispersion pattern - anything to help keep high incident music levels off the side walls is good.

boputnam
08-14-2007, 09:38 AM
I don't really get why they are using the dv-Sub Me neither...

the dVSub is not my favorite. It has three 15" drivers firing into a manifold. It generates good bass, but I struggled to get any tonality from them. I don't know what the thinking is - they certainly cannot match the SB218 for output.

The ARCS + SB218 are a great combo, and I would think sufficient. :dont-know

Post some pics when possible.

Andyoz
08-14-2007, 11:12 AM
Post some pics when possible.

Here's an output from L-Acoustics Soundvision program showing the system layout.

The venue has an under balcony area that won't be suitable for critical listening - it gives access to the Bar...very important in Ireland!!!

There's 3no. ARC's sitting on top of 2no. dv-Sub's stage left and right. The 2no. SB218's are under the stage. They are suspending 4no. 115XT's as balcony fills.

I also have screenshots of the 3D SPL mapping but it doesn't make much sense - you really need to look at the original model and rotate it around.

27344

boputnam
08-14-2007, 12:00 PM
There's 3no. ARC's sitting on top of 2no. dv-Sub's stage left and right. The 2no. SB218's are under the stage. They are suspending 4no. 115XT's as balcony fills.Coolio...

I'd sure swap one SB218 per side for two dVsubs, myself. I don't get the two dV-subs thinking. Clearly, they know something I should! :p

Centered subs under the stage is fabulous plan - and, if they delay the wing subs as an array, they'll get no power alley at-all. Nice...

The 115XT's are great when used ALONE as isolated fills, but their wide dispersion (~80) is problematic for comb-filtering in almost any array pattern. For those ceiling clusters, you might suggest they consider the 115XT "HiQ" in that instance. The HiQ's have approx. 50 dispersion. Both models are coaxial, so have nice point-source characteristics (and great inherant time-alignment).

This should be a wonderful sounding venue. A dream for any BE to encounter... :)

What's the desk(s) and other gear plans, do you know? :bouncy:

Andyoz
08-14-2007, 12:25 PM
I have a suspicion the DV-Sub's how found their way in there as they are fairly new product and the contractor is keen to use them in a Dublin install. I would prefer they just doubled up on the SB218's as I find systems like the DV-Sub's to be lumpy/one-notey. They also need something to stack the ARC's on. I am suspicious and will be putting the question to them on behalf of my client (the venue owner).

And the 115XT are the HiQ version. Well spotted.

The design is a combined one done by L-Acoustics in England and the local Irish contractor. They did some trials a onth ago and I heard the L-Acoustics system with only 2no. SB218's and no DV-Subs. Sounded a bit bass light.

We actually used that system for our noise breakout tests and really gave it some stick (I had hearing protection on). The system barely broke a sweat!

The rest of the system will include compoents of the old system including the stage monitoring (budget constraints ..).

Hey, do you have copy of L-Acoustics SoundVision. I have the files but can't view them. I am relying on screenshots sent by the contractor - check out this one!!

27346

Andyoz
08-14-2007, 12:42 PM
Here's a photo of the outside of the venue. This facade is called the Wall of Fame for obvious reasons (see how many you can guess).

27347

Here's a list of JBL gear they have pulled out and are trying to offload.

FOH SPEAKERS:
4x JBL I771 ( 2x15”+ 1x2” 60x40 HORN)
4x JBL I732 ( 1x15”+ 1x2” “ )
4x JBL P746 SUBS
ALL POWERED BY 5 JBL MPA 1200’S + 2 MPA 300’S

BALCONY DELAY CLUSTER:
2x JBL I732 + JBL P746 SUB
POWERED BY 2 JBL MPA 1200’S +1 MPA 300

John
08-15-2007, 04:57 PM
Here's a photo of the outside of the venue. This facade is called the Wall of Fame for obvious reasons (see how many you can guess).

27347


I think I can name quite a few but will only name two that I wish were still with us.

Rory Gallagher
Phil Lynott - Thin Lizzy

buddy plant
08-15-2007, 10:04 PM
Very nice shindig... It looks like everyone had a high time... I can just about smell the patchouli oil... Thanks for the pics gents... nothing left to do but smile, smile smile...

00Robin
08-16-2007, 05:16 AM
LOVE the Hammond B3's and Leslies's..they growl!

richluvsound
08-16-2007, 01:45 PM
Hey Bo,

is that the lab grummpen stuff driving the array ? whats the verdict on it ?

Rich

boputnam
08-16-2007, 02:36 PM
...is that the lab grummpen stuff driving the array ? whats the verdict on it ?Yea, Rich, it certainly is.

I thought they sounded great - terrific, actually. The contractor has only recently gone to them - they are being integrated with the L-Acoustics line(s).

According to the contractor's head systems engineer, the Lab Gruppen is a whole renewed experience in high end detail and output. The power amps previously deployed (better not be mentioned, here...) had lots of muscle, but lacked the clarity of these Lab Gruppen. He is really happy to be using them.

Andyoz
08-16-2007, 06:54 PM
I did notice that L-Acoustics amps looked suspiciously like rebadged Lab Gruppen units.

p.s. what "package" have you got running on that laptop in the first photo?

richluvsound
08-17-2007, 03:52 AM
Hey Bo,

sorry for the spelling errors, Grummpen and all that . I was close though:o:

I had heard good things. I dont know what they retail for there but, they are some serious sterling this side the pond.

Rich

boputnam
08-17-2007, 08:18 AM
Yea, they are pricy here, but have incredibly strong reviews by people who's ears I respect! ;) And, these guys hear more systems every week then I do in a year.

That said, no-one that I know has A/B'd them against QSC, which would be interesting (to me...). The listening test reports on each are very similar. :hmm:

Andyoz
08-19-2007, 03:43 PM
Rich,

You may want to check out these websites (the second one has some old Lab Gruppen gear)

http://www.bobkelly.co.uk/new/products.htm

http://www.concert-systems.com/hotdeals/hotdeals.html

mikebake
08-19-2007, 05:09 PM
How is this event funded?

boputnam
08-20-2007, 12:55 PM
How is this event funded?Hey, Mike...

Funded solely by donations - cash and in-kind...

Andyoz
08-24-2007, 01:12 AM
Hey Bo,

is that the lab grummpen stuff driving the array ? whats the verdict on it ?

Rich

We use a Bruel & Kjaer "badged" power amp as part of our sound insulation test kit, here it is.

27587

I always wondered what actual make it was and now I know the answer, it's a Lab Gruppen iP 450.

27586

Andyoz
08-29-2007, 04:34 AM
Me neither...

the dVSub is not my favorite. It has three 15" drivers firing into a manifold. It generates good bass, but I struggled to get any tonality from them. I don't know what the thinking is - they certainly cannot match the SB218 for output.

Just talked to the sound system contractor. They said they use the DV-Sub between approx. 40-80Hz and the SB218's between approx. 25-60Hz. They have used the combo before and find it gives incredible bass "punch" with great headroom.

They also said they wanted to "fly" the ARCS but the client didn't want it!!

I've also got a freeby copy of SounVision off them.

Anyway, it will all be clear in approx. 4 weeks when the venue opens. Dublin's going through a strange phase where several key venues are closed for refurbishment and they all trying to outdo each other for sound systems. The No. 1 venue, Vicar Street runs a Meyer Melodie system.

boputnam
08-29-2007, 07:48 AM
They also said they wanted to "fly" the ARCS but the client didn't want it!!Vertical dispersion won't require it - the ARCS are -20/+40 so sitting on the stage up-right, is about perfect. If they were flown, they'd have to invert them (commonly done).

Thanks for the update. Looking forward to the next!

Very much wish I could visit this place... :(

Andyoz
08-29-2007, 07:56 AM
Vertical dispersion won't require it - the ARCS are -20/+40 so sitting on the stage up-right, is about perfect. If they were flown, they'd have to invert them (commonly done).

Yes, they stated they would have inverted the ARC's if flown. Flying them would have given better coverage to the balcony with less reliance on the balcony fills (I hate using fills TBH).

The main reason they went away from flying them is there will be times when the balcony is empty and they wanted a system that was partially "zoned", i.e. they have bar areas that they want to have some control on noise spill into, etc.

boputnam
08-29-2007, 01:42 PM
Audience tape from Jerry Day 2007 - ARCS in action...

Workingman's Ed - He's Gone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjghAT4cieQ&NR=1) clip...

scott fitlin
08-29-2007, 02:03 PM
Yea, they are pricy here, but have incredibly strong reviews by people who's ears I respect! ;) And, these guys hear more systems every week then I do in a year.

That said, no-one that I know has A/B'd them against QSC, which would be interesting (to me...). The listening test reports on each are very similar. :hmm:EVERY pro sound person I know who uses Lab swears by them.

mikebake
08-29-2007, 02:19 PM
Hey, Mike...

Funded solely by donations - cash and in-kind...
Nice; no door, then. A lot of the stuff I do is that way.

Andyoz
08-29-2007, 02:42 PM
EVERY pro sound person I know who uses Lab swears by them.

And all the repairers I have talked to that work on them also swear by them. A work of art inside apparently.

CONVERGENCE
08-29-2007, 06:53 PM
I don't see any towers. How did you get the sound to reach even
the mid section of the audience?

...................

boputnam
08-30-2007, 07:39 AM
I don't see any towers. How did you get the sound to reach even the mid section of the audience?Easy...

As noted above, the ARCS have vertical dispersion pattern of -20/+40. Standing on-top of the SB218's their pattern easily reached far above our heads at FOH and beyond into the "hill seats" (packed, btw...). The ARCS are a simply fabulous design.

This was planned on elevations, drafted to scale. Perfect...

Andyoz
10-01-2007, 04:02 AM
Thanks for the update. Looking forward to the next!

I was down there Fri night with the UK lads from L-Acoustics. The system is sounding fine indeed (we have some room issues to sort out though).

The main FOH is all powered by three of their new LA8 amps (four channel @ 1.8k/ch with inbuilt DSP) - http://www.l-acoustics.com/anglais/produitsgb.htm. These were the first ever intalled in UK/Ireland. L-acoustics are way behind on their orders for that unit (about 150 back orders!!)

These are made by Camco - http://www.camcoaudio.com/ - so L-Acoustics are moving away from rebadged Lap.Gruppens. Note sure why, maybe Lab couldn't do what they wanted in terms of integrating the DSP into the amps?? The LA8's are really nice in the flesh.

The desk is a DigiDesign D-Show Profile.

Bo, if you're ever in Ireland...Ill try to get you in there for a demo!!!

Andyoz
10-01-2007, 04:06 AM
Also, the manager of L-acoustics UK office was telling me how much trouble they were having getting the staff they need to grow the UK business. They need a sales managers and technical Support Engineer.

I found that amazing. If I was in that industry, I would do whatever I could to get in with them...even work for them free for a few months just to get in the door!!!