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View Full Version : Any improvements that can be done to a B460 sub?



wsilva
07-31-2007, 06:29 PM
I have a pair of B460 subs that I have been holding onto for my listening room that I someday hope to setup. One of the cabinets needs a little repair work and that got me to wondering, are there any improvements anyone has ever done to a B460? (added more internal bracing, used a different driver than the 2245 etc.) I know the B460's are loved for there neat looks and great performance, but I have the time so if there are any improvements to be done I would like to hear any ideas.

soundboy
07-31-2007, 11:44 PM
I don't think one could "improve" one of the best woofers ever made for deep bass, or a cabinet built by JBL. If you want to improve the BX63 crossovers that go with them, PM me, I have done several, and it's night and day, without changing basic function or spec.

Thom
08-01-2007, 12:50 PM
I don't know an improvement, but just because your using it differently than they designed it if for no other reason I'd be hesitant to say it couldn't be improved for your use. I'm a little wary of the "In 6 days JBL created sound and on the 7th day they rested" crowd.

Zilch
08-01-2007, 01:44 PM
Mirror-image the pair.

[Some disassembly required.... :D ]

wsilva
08-01-2007, 02:49 PM
Oh man dont I wish I could.... I know I should be happy that I was lucky enough to get my 2 B460's, but when I did have them set up on each side of my old listening room I did hate seeing the ports on one and not on the other one.

Maron Horonzakz
08-02-2007, 07:06 AM
Some people after the seventh day should rest there brains...That is one of the best subs ever designed.....Checking the xover for bad caps is all that may be needed;)

Thom
08-02-2007, 07:37 AM
Maron , no offense but if I said 2+2 is 4 you would do research trying to prove me wrong. I'm not important enough to be concerned with and besides I didn't give any advice. I had forgotten that was your group.

Maron Horonzakz
08-02-2007, 08:04 AM
What makes you think that comment was pointed at you? Your so thin skinned..But your comment was disengenerous....That putdown of JBL shows your ignorents about that sub. ;)

Thom
08-02-2007, 08:19 AM
I'm trying to think of a piece of equipment you've mentioned in the same paragraph with a reference to myself without calling me ignorant and none come to mind. As far as thin skinned I'm not mad, upset, or offended but I felt like bringing attn. to my observation. Your probably a perfectly decent person. You do tend to think your experiences are how things are. I mentioned a Paragon someone had added PR's to and you said they didn't come that way and I was "the most" ignorant. No they didn't make them that way or he wouldn't have had to add them on. I don't care to pick you apart you just seem to have a compulsion to attack whatever I say. If you do it enough you will be right sometime.

Mr. Widget
08-02-2007, 09:55 AM
That putdown of JBL shows your ignorents about...:rotfl:

you too funny....:applaud:

I think the 2245 is a fantastic sub and the B460 is competently designed and built, but reading Greg Timbers' own words about the sub you discover that there are some technical compromises demanded by the marketplace.

http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/reference/technical/1983-subs.htm

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I for one, find the cabinet design pretty well dated and oh so 80's looking, but I guess if it fits into your decor....;)



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soundboy
08-02-2007, 09:56 AM
Some people after the seventh day should rest there brains...That is one of the best subs ever designed.....Checking the xover for bad caps is all that may be needed;)

My feelings exactly. I have three of them....in three different systems.

There are several older JBL designs that could use improvememnt with modern technology....this isn't one of them, IMHO.

Maron Horonzakz
08-02-2007, 10:41 AM
Thom...You need to calm down and cry in your own toilet....My comments about the Paragon are true.. My comments about the sub are good enough for me.:D

hjames
08-02-2007, 01:01 PM
I'm trying to think of a piece of equipment you've mentioned in the same paragraph with a reference to myself without calling me ignorant and none come to mind. As far as thin skinned I'm not mad, upset, or offended but I felt like bringing attn. to my observation. Your probably a perfectly decent person. You do tend to think your experiences are how things are. I mentioned a Paragon someone had added PR's to and you said they didn't come that way and I was "the most" ignorant. No they didn't make them that way or he wouldn't have had to add them on. I don't care to pick you apart you just seam to have a compulsion to attack whatever I say.

nah, you aren't wrong - except - he doesn't attack just you, its anyone that disagrees with him, and I think sometimes he attack just 'cause he's bored.

That world weary ennui he's got makes us all suffer for it!

Maron Horonzakz
08-02-2007, 08:45 PM
Hijames.....I never attack you, I wuv you !!! Your the apple of my eye..I would give up my Paragon for you.:D

wsilva
08-02-2007, 10:32 PM
Not to much much technical help going on here, my B460's are perfect and above improvement so please no more of this. :argue:

Ian Mackenzie
08-02-2007, 11:13 PM
I think the best improvement is a new fresh recone and trying set them up as best you can in respect to placement.

Also dont skip on the power amp. Buy the biggest you can offord! I have seen power amps literally go into meltdown driving the B460. If you think the bass sounds crook it is the power amp..tust me.;)

Proper crossover transition to the main speaker will also require careful adjustment.

Most people overplay their subs at the beginning and they blame the sub for sounding odd.

In other words, the biggest improvement comes from the owner/user.:D

wsilva
08-02-2007, 11:44 PM
That was my next question for the board, I have 2 Crown com tech 810 series amps I am going to use for the subs, the specs are


Output Power in Bridge-Mono Mode:
Maximum Average Power at 1 kHz with No More than 0.1% THD:
Com-Tech 810: 975 watts into 8 ohms.

I was hoping these amps would be more than enough, but for home theater use etc. could the requirments of the B460's need even more than the 975 watts each monoed Crown will be putting out? or will I be real safe at least as far as amp headroom is concerned?

Thom
08-03-2007, 03:55 AM
nah, you aren't wrong - except - he doesn't attack just you, its anyone that disagrees with him, and I think sometimes he attack just 'cause he's bored.

That world weary ennui he's got makes us all suffer for it!

Thanks. I should have known I wasn't special. "Ennui"? I thought my vocabulary was suffering but my unabridged appears to have been abridged.

Mr. Widget
08-03-2007, 11:37 AM
That was my next question for the board, I have 2 Crown com tech 810 series amps...

I was hoping these amps would be more than enough, but for home theater use etc. could the requirments of the B460's need even more than the 975 watts each monoed Crown will be putting out? or will I be real safe at least as far as amp headroom is concerned?[/LEFT]
For transients you do need gobs of power however if you have a very large room or play back at very high levels some care will need to be taken.

The 2242 was developed because the 2245 when used as a sub in THX theaters were too easily blown up when driven hard. They sound great, one of the very best sounding subs I have heard, but they do not have the extreme safety margin built in that subs like the 2242 have. Especially when run without a subsonic filter in line... the extremely low frequencies that are in today's soundtracks can really heat up a voicecoil and cause even an 18" woofer to run out of xmax.

For a typical home theater one or two 2245s in custom cabs or B460s should really do the trick as long as your amp(s) have headroom and lots of current capacity... big ass boat anchors, amps with massive supplies are typically the best sort of amps for woofers like these.

As for your Com Techs... you might try running them in standard stereo using one amp per woofer and leaving the second channel of each amp disconnected. This will limit your power but it will improve each amp's ability to control the woofer by improving the damping factor and increasing the current capacity of each amp. Usually the loss of 3dB of headroom is a small price to pay for tighter better defined bass.


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Maron Horonzakz
08-03-2007, 02:59 PM
Some times improvements have the opposit effect... But restoration such as in the xover will be audible.

Thom
08-04-2007, 10:08 AM
big ass boat anchors,


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Checked this out on google with interesting results