Debate: JBL 250TI vs JBL L300 Summit

[Storm]

With the recent discussion of the L300's, I was just cururious to know other peoples opinion on the JBL 250TI vs JBL L300 Summit.

Anyone care to start?

:blink:

I am of course biased -- 250TIs are the way to go. However, would a pair of L300's be just as good?

-Storm.

[hjames]

There is quite the different kind of sound from the L300 with 15s and a pair of compression drivers vs the 250 4-ways with TIs. You really ought to find someone with some L300s/4333s etc so you can hear what that kind of sound is like, and compare it to what you know from your "pyramids".


With the recent discussion of the L300's, I was just curious to know other peoples opinion on the JBL 250TI vs JBL L300 Summit.

Anyone care to start?

:blink:

I am of course biased -- 250TIs are the way to go. However, would a pair of L300's be just as good?

-Storm.

[Uncle Paul]

Two very different animals - which one is best depends on the listener's ears and music selection.

One thing they do share is a wonderfully aesthetic design.

As you can tell by my avatar, I'm an L300 fan, but I would not pass up a 250Ti if the opportunity presented itself. The 250Ti has newer drivers and a more advanced crossover, plus it's a four way. I might pass up an L300, but only because I'm building a DIY 4344.

The 200 XPL and Performance Series would be better to compare to the 250 Ti.

[bloatedpig]

I guess I'm partial as well.......I heard the 250's back when they first came out. I was impressed but wasn't floored. I like the "In your Face" forward sound from the L100, 200B, 300.

[Zilch]

I like the "In your Face" forward sound from the L100, 200B, 300.Disqualified. :D

L300 is not "forward."

Big difference. With L300, JBL abandoned "West Coast" and never looked back.

Listen again.... :yes:

[Titanium Dome]

If the criteria is in a medium to large room in a house, integrated as a part of a more or less normal living environment, then the 250Ti hands down.

If it's in the full-basement rec room, which is dedicated to partying and general carrying on, then probably the L300.

[edgewound]

This sounds like another ongoing argument that could never end.

Tastes great, less filling....250Ti.

Tastes great, more satiating....L300

[BMWCCA]

Tastes great, less filling....250Ti.

Tastes great, more satiating....L300:moon::rotfl:

[bloatedpig]

I stand corrected Zilch. You are indeed right. I am so used to the L100 sound that I connected all the late 70's speakers synonymously when they are indeed different.

regards

[hjames]

I stand corrected Zilch. You are indeed right. I am so used to the L100 sound that I connected all the late 70's speakers synonymously when they are indeed different.

regards

Yep - gotta love that horn/slot combo - what fun!

[Zilch]

I stand corrected Zilch. You are indeed right. I am so used to the L100 sound that I connected all the late 70's speakers synonymously when they are indeed different.No problem. You have acquired a new and more mature taste, is all.

"Bright" isn't too far from "Forward." The big differences are in the bass and treble.... :yes:

[Allanvh5150]

And no one has talked about the obvious difference between the 250's and the 300's. Try this as a test: compare the two on music and then on movies. I am sure you will find the 250's shine on music but are average on movies and vice versa for the 300's. I run two pair of L150 clones in my home theatre now. I used to run compression drivers only by I started to tire of the "in your face" sound of 2425's and 2404's for music. So what I have done is to use the L150's in the front position for music and then when I play a movie, the LE5's and the 044's swap for a 2425/2470 and a 2404. The best of both worlds. See what you think.:)

[fabrice11]

I wanted to share with you my listening on the model 250TI "Classic Edition" compare to models before I got to know the l300 and 4333a and well for me 250TI go much further in terms of sound reproduction, they are much more balanced and accurate with a great soundstage and a much higher power handling for the 300 and 4333 I do not regret this purchase and for me an unbeatable value for money (1500euros / 2000 euros) compared to that in L300 worth 3500 euros ....:)

[SEAWOLF97]

I've never even seen the L300 , but I've had 2 pairs of 250ti's and for me they do everything that I need. They are very musical and I don't use them for parties or movies...at abt $2K ..they seem to be a nice deal. and

FOR ME ... a good sub does help them.

IMHO those who don't appreciate them are prolly doing a demo with an underpowered amp source. I did try to run them on a 65wpc receiver and was not impressed. They are VERY happy with 375 wpc pushing them.


Two very different animals - which one is best depends on the listener's ears and music selection. One thing they do share is a wonderfully aesthetic design. As you can tell by my avatar, I'm an L300 fan, but I would not pass up a 250Ti if the opportunity presented itself. The 250Ti has newer drivers and a more advanced crossover, plus it's a four way. I might pass up an L300, but only because I'm building a DIY 4344. The 200 XPL and Performance Series would be better to compare to the 250 Ti.

After Paul wrote this, he has now heard the 250's ...any revision ?

anecdotal addendum:

When I bought my first 250ti's , the seller (a forum member) was also selling his 4343's ...of
course I had to ask him that since both pairs had been playing in the same room on the same source gear,.....which he preferred ? His answer was "slightly like the 250's better, the horn sound was wearing to his ears"

[BMWCCA]

. . . for me 250TI go much further in terms of sound reproduction, they are much more balanced and accurate with a great soundstage and a much higher power handling for the 300 and 4333 Not to perpetuate the resurrection of a five-year-old thread, but isn't the power-handling capability roughly the same except with the L300A having the higher sensitivity? Recommended maximum amplifier power for both is 400-watts. 250Ti is rated 90dB sensitivity and L300A is 93dB.

Call me spoiled but the 4345s are rated for 400-watts on the bottom end with a sensitivity of 95db. :dont-know:

[cosmos]

Not to even perpetuate the resurrection of a 5 year old thread.. They are both truly great speakers. I think the term finesse applies best to 250Ti and dynamic, brute force and live applies best to L300. I think at modest or less listening levels, the 250ti is really tough to beat and I'd take it hands down over an L300. However, if my goal were above moderate SPL listening, clear winner L300. In may respects, I regret selling my 250Ti, but I truly believe I am listening now to better and more dynamic.

That's my opinion YMMV.

[fabrice11]

hello all,

I am looking for the complete manual on JBL 250TI lemited edition or classic edition.

thank you for your answers.:bouncy:

[Titanium Dome]

http://www.retrevo.com/samples/JBL-Speaker-manuals.html

Je pense que vous pouvez le trouver là avec peu d'effort.

[Titanium Dome]

Lazarus has risen from the dead;
This post will a bit be off thread.


If the criteria is in a medium to large room in a house, integrated as a part of a more or less normal living environment, then the 250Ti hands down.

If it's in the full-basement rec room, which is dedicated to partying and general carrying on, then probably the L300.

Since this thread came back to life from its five year death sleep, I want to revise my position (of course). I'm less impressed with the L300 five years later and more impressed with the 250 family of speakers.

Since I've finally found, listened to, and purchased some really wonderful sounding horns, the L300 is a victim of its age. As a historical piece, yes, it's still a hair-raising, butt-kicking, head smashing killer, but it really does not compete with current horn technology and design--in my opinion. Still, hearing Ian Gillan screaming Space Truckin' on L300s is a guilty pleasure I would never turn down.

The 250 family still competes very well with current offerings. Listening right this moment to my stock L250s in my office, they're clearly delivering a compelling, satisfying, musically realistic experience. The Frankenstein PT250s, in which I just added the LE14H-3 driver to the 908Ti, 904Ti, and 044Ti, are showing the brilliance of the design and its enduring nature.

The fact that we've been working on these 250s for a while prejudices me. If I had decided to "fix" a pair of L300s, I could have ended up liking them more, but I think the L300 is not a good candidate for anything other than being an L300. OTOH, an L250 or 250Ti has enough promise in it to warrant some "improving" and tinkering to see what a great design can yield.

Okay, go back to sleep.

[Krunchy]

Not to perpetuate the resurrection of a five-year-old thread, but isn't the power-handling capability roughly the same except with the L300A having the higher sensitivity? Recommended maximum amplifier power for both is 400-watts. 250Ti is rated 90dB sensitivity and L300A is 93dB.

Call me spoiled but the 4345s are rated for 400-watts on the bottom end with a sensitivity of 95db. :dont-know:

You Are Definitely Spoiled!!! :D :applaud:

[fabrice11]

Thanks titanium dome :applaud:

Best regards.


Fabrice

[Ducatista47]

Lazarus has risen from the dead;
This post will a bit be off thread.

The fact that we've been working on these 250s for a while prejudices me. If I had decided to "fix" a pair of L300s, I could have ended up liking them more, but I think the L300 is not a good candidate for anything other than being an L300. OTOH, an L250 or 250Ti has enough promise in it to warrant some "improving" and tinkering to see what a great design can yield.

Okay, go back to sleep.

Lest we forget the manual (from the Master) to improve both the 250Ti and the 4345, both mentioned on this thread.
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?10490-The-JBL-4345-Club&p=110075&highlight=#post110075

I agree that the L300 updated would not be an L300. It is a home 4333; I have a pair of those (my home theater noise makers) and they were improved through the years, culminating with the 4345. The L300 was never updated. If you really like what it does, seek a 4350. Many if not most 4350s went into Disco clubs, where they excelled at ear splitting distortion free entertainment. Me? I went for the 4345 and nobody has ever suggested that I got an underperforming pair of speakers.

If you can't find a pair of 4350s, member SAEMAN could build you a pair, if he still occupies his spare time with such pursuits. He builds better than new, and prices accordingly.

Clark

[BMWCCA]

I agree that the L300 updated would not be an L300. It is a home 4333; I have a pair of those (my home theater noise makers) and they were improved through the years, culminating with the 4345. The L300 was never updated. . . . Me? I went for the 4345 and nobody has ever suggested that I got an underperforming pair of speakers.

:thmbsup: That's an interesting perspective and a practical way to contrast the iconic L300 to the many updates and revisions of the L250.

And yet still, to the original question, I doubt anyone could prefer the L300 to the 250Ti if both were using amplifiers that showed each to its best advantage. The fact that the L300 is more efficient and seems to play well with just about any amp at low and loud levels might tend to give it an advantage to some. "Better" at what would be my question. I'm unable to answer the poll without a third choice of "that depends . . ."

[SEAWOLF97]

I agree that the L300 updated would not be an L300. It is a home 4333; I have a pair of those (my home theater noise makers) and they were improved through the years, culminating with the 4345. The L300 was never updated. Clark

I had never thought of it that way, but Clark does make sense.

before I got my 250Ti's, had the same 300 v 250 discussion with Soundboy since at the time he had more experience with larger JBL's than I did.

His analogy was the L300 to a '59 Caddy ....stylish, in a retro way, lots of fun to drive around (for an hour), big & brash , and then tiring and a chore to use daily for long periods.

ie: fun for short periods, but not a daily driver.

On the 250's, his comment was that you can listen all day to accurate audio reproduction and still have a smile on your face at the end.

I took his recommendation ...

(Pete, if you are lurking about...plse chime in) ;)

[4313B]

The L300 won in the end. The S4700 and K2-S9900 are the latest versions of the venerable JBL 15-inch 3-way. 4365 if Blue is your color of choice.

[BMWCCA]

ie: fun for short periods, but not a daily driver.

Tempting, but I'm not gonna do it! ;)

[hjames]

Tempting, but I'm not gonna do it! ;)
He's talkin' about 3 ways like my upstairs system or Fred Sanford's 4333s ...
not the big 4 ways like yours ...

I would wonder how much time he's spent listening to 4345s -
but the Poll is about the L300 3ways

[SEAWOLF97]

I'm seeing a tendency to jack the original question and
substitute other models ....4343, 4345,4350 ..., while the L300
(subject of the thread) only had 1 model ,
if holding to the topic....L300 Summit

AFASIK ...the name Summit was only on the original variant.

the premise of the poll is somewhat skewed too , the original
of one model line compared to the second and improved model
of another line.

[BMWCCA]

He's talkin' about 3 ways like my upstairs system or Fred Sanford's 4333s ...
not the big 4 ways like yours ...

Sure, but it was spending time with Fred's 4333s that convinced me to move into the 43xx monitors in the first place. I just don't get the characterization and maybe that's because my daily driver (car) is actually a vintage sport sedan that seems to do everything well. :dont-know:

[hjames]

Sure, but it was spending time with Fred's 4333s that convinced me to move into the 43xx monitors in the first place.
I just don't get the characterization and maybe that's because my daily driver (car) is actually a vintage sport sedan that seems to do everything well. :dont-know:

Sure - I've got one of each - big 3 way and 4 way with a slot & horn & a 15, not an 18 ...
but the poll was asking for 2 specific speakers and neither one of us owns either.

You and I like our respective gear - the poll still wasn't for us ...

[BMWCCA]

You and I like our respective gear - the poll still wasn't for us ...

And yet I see you voted! ;)

Hard to determine the OP's intent, but I would think you and I would be as likely to have an informed opinion comparing these two variants as nearly anyone here. Obviously less so than someone who's owned both, but we've both had plenty of listening time with each. I doubt the poll was just for those with both pair sitting side-by-side. My issue is that the poll pushes an either/or decision and the answer is not simply one or the other; there are too many variables. I suppose that's why it should go back to being just a dead thread.

Looking at the results I see that someone named 250ti voted for . . . the 250ti.
And someone who said within the thread that they've never seen an L300 also voted for the 250ti.

[hjames]

And yet I see you voted! ;)

Hard to determine the OP's intent, but I would think you and I would be as likely to have an informed opinion comparing these two variants as nearly anyone here. Obviously less so than someone who's owned both, but we've both had plenty of listening time with each. I doubt the poll was just for those with both pair sitting side-by-side. My issue is that the poll pushes an either/or decision and the answer is not simply one or the other; there are too many variables. I suppose that's why it should go back to being just a dead thread.

Looking at the results I see that someone named 250ti voted for . . . the 250ti.
And someone who said within the thread that they've never seen an L300 also voted for the 250ti.

Yet I have heard Marks 250TIs in a number of spaces and heard John's 4333s as well as my L200s back when they had 1 inch drivers,
so I can vote, hey?... I have a preference in the vote part of this thread, I just didn't take sides in the verbal debate here,
other than my reminder that 4 way pro speakers weren't part of the original Poll ...

It is sort of weird tho - L300 3 way vs 4 way 250ti - It should probably be a 4 way vs 4 way Poll.

[hjames]

The L300 won in the end. The S4700 and K2-S9900 are the latest versions of the venerable JBL 15-inch 3-way.
4365 if Blue is your color of choice.

Right - let me rush to Japan to find a deal so I can buy one a them blue puppies ... :D

[4313B]

Right - let me rush to Japan to find a deal so I can buy one a them blue puppies ... :DEurope might be closer. :)

Anyway, who cares, just buy the parts and build your own.

Oh wait... :banghead:

[Titanium Dome]

L300 to D315 to K2 S9900? Well, at least they each have three drivers (including a 15"), a cabinet, and a network.

[Titanium Dome]

Thus:

[Titanium Dome]

L250 to 250Ti to 250Ti LE to XPL250* to TL260 to PT800/PS1400 stack to PT250*

* not official products, obviously

[Titanium Dome]

Thus:

[Titanium Dome]

Probably not...

[4313B]

L300 to D315 to K2 S9900? Well, at least they each have three drivers (including a 15"), a cabinet, and a network.I'm not sure why anyone would consider a D315 in the same family as an L300. It has no horns/compression drivers.

The 4333/L300, 4338, S4600, 4365, S4700, S9800, S9900 are all high performance JBL 15-inch 3-way systems using medium efficiency low frequency transducers with high efficiency, high frequency and ultra high frequency compression drivers.


Probably not...They are L250 derivatives.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

C8RLE14H-1 unavailable
C8R108 NLA
C8R104 available
D8R044Ti NLA

C8R2231 replaced with C8R2235 available
D16R2420 replaced with D16R2421 available
D16R2405 available

[Titanium Dome]

I'm not sure why anyone would consider a D315 in the same family as an L300. It has no horns/compression drivers.

The 4333/L300, 4338, S4600, 4365, S4700, S9800, S9900 are all high performance JBL 15-inch 3-way systems using medium efficiency low frequency transducers with high efficiency, high frequency and ultra high frequency compression drivers.

They are L250 derivatives.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Just having a little fun with regard to "venerable" 15 inch three-ways. JBL did make a few "non-venerable" three-ways, too.

---------------

Yes, they are L250 derivatives; that's part of the fascination. Thirty plus years later the shape lives on, both in official products and quirky experiments.

I do recall a few folks building L300 repros, with the intent of having a clone, but I don't recall anyone taking an original L300 to utilize the cabinet in a meaningful attempt to get more out of it with updated drivers and networks. It's probably been done, it just doesn't come to mind. We do have a number of folks who built (or had built for them) 15"-based three-ways based on current cabinet design, and they do a heck of a job.

I think I remember one project to build a 250 style cabinet, but that might have been on the French JBL site. When I decided to stick more current drivers into a 250 style cabinet, I thought about having the cabs built for maybe 30 minutes, then figured there were too many good cabinets around with beat-to-heck drivers in them that could be used instead of wasting the time, money, and wood. Plus, by using external electronic networks, we could leave the originals intact and return everything to normal if the experiment was a disaster.

All of this gets far away from the 300 vs 250 original issue of five years ago, but these compare and contrast exercises are enjoyable and help to see both where we were and where we are with respect to JBL product design and development.

[4313B]

Just having a little fun with regard to "venerable" 15 inch three-ways. JBL did make a few "non-venerable" three-ways, too.
:p Yep, the S4800 immediately springs to mind.

[RichK]

[QUOTE=Titanium Dome;333010]Lazarus has risen from the dead;
This post will a bit be off thread.
...."Still, hearing Ian Gillan screaming Space Truckin' on L300s is a guilty pleasure I would never turn down......" QUOTE]

Amen to that.

Rich

[gigolo91]

250 ti are the best!!!!!!!!!! :bouncy::bouncy::bouncy::applaud::applaud::applaud :