Cartridge shoot-out Ortofon OM Super 30 and a vintage Shure V15 type V

[SUPERBEE]

I am fixing up another Thorens 125 Mrk II. This one has a SME 3009 series II arm and my tech is recomending the Ortofon OM Super 30. I was going to track down another Shure V15 type V like I am running (and love) on my other 125 but thought that this might be a little cheaper option as this table will not see the use my main one will.

Any one care to weigh in here?

[Hoerninger]

This one has a SME 3009 series II arm and my tech is recomending the Ortofon OM Super 30. I was going to track down another Shure V15 type V like I am running (and love) ...

Superbee,

as far as I remember the Shure V15 and the SME 3009 series II fit very well. It is a high mass tonearm and the V15 is designed for this type.

The modern Ortofons like OM Super 30 are designed for low mass tonearms. In combination with a high mass tonearm the resonance of moving mass and compliance will be deeper than the prefered 15 - 20 Hz. It is said that a lower resonance may produce instability. But when your disks are flat and even I do not see a problem.

The Ortofon Super OM 30 has a Fine Line stylus, this should be a hearable advantage.
___________
Peter


PS: member rs237 reminded me, that the newer Shure V 15 are recommended for low mass tone arms, so in comparison there seems to be no disadvantage for the OM 30.
BTW: I am using several Ortofon's. ;)

[macaroonie]

Alloy Headshell Get the counterweight in as close as you can to the pivot and track down a Denon 303 series High output moving coil. Great with JBL.
Do not use the original Thorens mat it is no good and also make sure that the suspension is moving freely.
Do you know how to do this ?

[Hoerninger]

Cartridge shoot-out Ortofon OM Super 30 and a vintage Shure V15 type V
Any listening experiences so far? Would be interesting ...
__________
Peter

[MJC]

Have any of you had any experience with ClearAudio Cartridges?
I've been thinking about getting the CLEARAUDIO - MAESTRO WOOD (http://www.musicdirect.com/products/detail.asp?sku=ACLAMAESTRO) , along with a VPI Scoutmaster Signature table.
Of all the audio gear I've got, 3 systems, the turntable is the only piece of gear I haven't replaced since '79.

[garyl]

I have the SME 3009 ll on my luxman table. Love the TA.

I have gone thru a number of changes in cartridges and don't profess to know what I am doing here.

Denon DL 103 with step up (Denon AU 320) and I have a hum I can't seem to isolate.

I now have a Sure M 97 Xe on it and this cartridge sounds wonderful.

I think the MC cartridge with step up might sound a bit nicer but the darn hum will drive me to drink so I won't say to go that route unless you love tweeking these things out to the source.

Oddly, I tried the MC set up on one of my SL 1200 MKlls and it sounds great with zero hum.

Wish I had the patients to figure this out because I really do like the SME/Lux table.

Gary

[MJC]

I now have a Sure M 97 Xe on it and this cartridge sounds wonderful.

That is the same cartridge I'm using now on my 28 year old Yamaha direct drive turntable. Very good, for the price. I used Shure V15 types II, III, IV from about '69 ~ '89, until I couldn't buy the stylus' anymore (locally, before the internet came along).

So now that I've pretty much made up my mind to get a VPI Scoutmaster Signature turntable, I've got to decide what cartridge to put with it. This is the one I thinking of getting.

[SEAWOLF97]

and bought a Denon DL-103 MC cart....the guy in Spain seems to have the best price on these, although the 1st one he sent must have fallen in the pond, but the 2nd one came through....havnt mounted it yet,,,just got the Denon transformer ready and although its still August,,we are preparing for winter.

Mac asked and here is the graph that accompanies the cart ...looks OK up to about 20k , then falls apart :(

[Hoerninger]

... then falls apart :(
Be shure it is due to the test chart. :bouncy:
____________
Peter

[SEAWOLF97]

FINALLY got the Denon DL-103 installed today. Quite a workout for these 59 y.o. eyes. Located the right headshell and sat with the manual and put the 4 leads on, started to bolt the cart to the headshell and all 4 leads a slipped right back off...flattened the leads a little and now they went on snug.

I dont have any tools made for the job, so aligned with the "ByGuess&ByGolly" method. Switched the transformer into the pre and gave it a listen...L speaker sounded great, R had treble but no bass. Tried the old V-15 again and tho sounding dull thru the transformer, all freqs were there.So pulled the head out again and rotated the Denon about 1/128th inch and reinstalled. PERFECT !!!

Good image, outstanding bass !!! The Denon is more analytical than the V-15, which seems a little warmer, but the 103 has much more detail and after acclimating to it, sounds more fluid/natural.

Latest "Stereophile" mag came a couple of days ago, it was their "500 recommended componets" issue. The items only stay on the list for 3 years, unless a writer/editor has continued experience with it...so I was surprised to find the 46 y.o. DL-103 listed.

[macaroonie]

The graph drops because they only run the test up to 20kHz. I would make sure those little leads are snug. You may have had an iffy headshell contact first time around. Sometimes happens.
Glad you are liking it though , its a lot of fun for the $$$$. It will run in also and sound even better. BTW keep an eye on your post box in about a week.:)

[SEAWOLF97]

It will run in also and sound even better. BTW keep an eye on your post box in about a week.:)

there IS a break in ??? and will improve ?? WOW ....(watching box in anticipation of ?? , all I THINK the system needs anymore is a record cleaning machine) , but will always defer to experts...:)

OBTW ..our CL has a Thorens TD126 mk2 in original box with some confusion whether new or not for $400 ...do those electronics hold up OK ?

[macaroonie]

No probs, German engineering and really simple circuits. The stock arm is not that great but the TT is XLNT . Cant pass comment on the price as you know your local market better than I do but you are well adept at scoring a deal.

Record cleaning machine -- a pal of mine has a wee laddie who is at the stage of investigating everything. Yesterday he took a bread maker totally to bits. Now let me tell you that is the donor for a slow speed motor system, I had it in my mitt today. That and any old platter from a junk deck plus your vacuum and wash gear and you are away. Model it on a Keith Monks , I used one at work for many years and it does do the job.

[macaroonie]

If you take a look at the arm / cart from the side of the deck it may be the case that the arm is sloping down towards the cart a tad. This will give a slight lift in the HF. I would normally expect the V15 to have a slight sizzle by comparison with the 103. Quick test --- put a record under the record you are playing and hear what happens. If it improves then shim the cart in the headshell or put an old record under the mat. I'm assuming the deck has no arm height adjustment.

[SEAWOLF97]

Mac-

either you are a genius or have lots of phono experience. YES, the head was sloped down, maybe 5-8 degrees....the spare LP under the mat really knocked down the HF...I like that idea better than shimming the cart...this way I have a fast A to B comparison at just the removal of a disk. There still is a maybe 2 degree slope as I dont think there is a vert adjustment available, but will look in the manual.

You shud have your own phono website ....:applaud:

thanx
TOM

OBTW - I always use my JBL rubber sub foot (unside down) as a spindle weight...amasing to see the LP that I thot was flat actually flatten when the weight is applied. :D

[macaroonie]

I would invest in a flat surface mat for whatever deck you are using. There are tons of them on the market. You can't go wrong with the Gyromat from the Michell Gyrodeck. Available as an accessory. Looking forward the mat on the Thorens is a travesty , and in parallel I would always break the rules and ditch the felt mat on Linn in favour of the Gyro or similar. The Gyromat washes OK whereas some of the tacky ( sticky ) rubber mats would retain grit.

[SUPERBEE]

Any listening experiences so far? Would be interesting ...
__________
Peter


SORRY!!

I forgot all about this thread. The Shure is the clear winner for me. Just has everything going for it. The Ortofon at first I thought was a little to harsh but it has smooted out and now sounds nice with tubes over the Paragon

[macaroonie]

I have the SME 3009 ll on my luxman table. Love the TA.

I have gone thru a number of changes in cartridges and don't profess to know what I am doing here.

Denon DL 103 with step up (Denon AU 320) and I have a hum I can't seem to isolate.

I now have a Sure M 97 Xe on it and this cartridge sounds wonderful.

I think the MC cartridge with step up might sound a bit nicer but the darn hum will drive me to drink so I won't say to go that route unless you love tweeking these things out to the source.

Oddly, I tried the MC set up on one of my SL 1200 MKlls and it sounds great with zero hum.

Wish I had the patients to figure this out because I really do like the SME/Lux table.

Gary

The Sme 3009 can have slightly odd grounding characteristics. As I remember the short ground lead is the earth of the body of the arm only and the long lead that is the same length as the phonos is only a signal ground.
You could try no grounding at all or more likely extend the short ground lead to connect to the amp and ditch the one that is normally connected. The arm connector can be a bit of a pest and I have found hum where the -ve side of one signal was not connected due to the connector being not fully home.
Otherwise SME have been making superbly crafted products for years and years. Sorry the pic is cruddy but hope this helps

[SEAWOLF97]

I would invest in a flat surface mat for whatever deck you are using. There are tons of them on the market. You can't go wrong with the Gyromat from the Michell Gyrodeck.

checked their site, did not see any mats for sale.


Quick test --- put a record under the record you are playing and hear what happens. If it improves then shim the cart in the headshell or put an old record under the mat. I'm assuming the deck has no arm height adjustment.

tho this works, I went back to normal and attenuate the treble with tone controls.



Record cleaning machine -- a pal of mine has a wee laddie who is at the stage of investigating everything. Yesterday he took a bread maker totally to bits. Now let me tell you that is the donor for a slow speed motor system, I had it in my mitt today. That and any old platter from a junk deck plus your vacuum and wash gear and you are away. Model it on a Keith Monks , I used one at work for many years and it does do the job.

almost sold on that VPI 16.5 deal

http://www.musicdirect.com/product/72457




Denon DL 103 with step up (Denon AU 320) and I have a hum I can't seem to isolate.
Gary

I have that same setup but with the AU 250 and no hum, wud assume either insufficient ground or transformer problem. have read of many using the DL-103 without trans ...tho havnt tried it