paragon Woofers Help!

[dean28]

Hello,

Like most of us here, I love JBL speakers and 2 months ago I was offered a pair of Paragon with a hefty price. With my student’s budget, I had to sell my car in order to purchase them. The owner (Takahashi) assured me that all drivers are original and that the only thing he had ever done to them was re-foaming the surrounds. After a week of listening to them I realised that mid band was awesome and high frequency was equally so but low frequency wasn’t quite right (undefined and boomy). So I opened them up to investigate and found that both woofers had been replaced with cheap 12 inch generic drivers. I tired to contact the owner to demand refund but he has left to Japan and his friend (Geoffrey whom was there when I purchased them) denied everything. I am really angry about it but there is nothing I could really do. Well my bad experience maybe other people’s benefit so remember these names and stayed away from them.

I thought it would be an insult to leave those cheap woofers in there so removed them and as broke as I am now I have to look for the genuine drivers. I believe the original woofers for these were LE15A but the remains of the foam surround (belong to the original woofers) in the cabinet are black/dark grey and the LE15A is white/yellowish??? (Saw some pictures on the net).

I have seen a few pair of JBL woofers online (LE15B, 2225 & a variety of LE15A) and unsure if I can or should use any of them as replacement.

Can some one here please let me know the specs for Paragon original woofers as all the ones that I have seen were 8 ohms impedance and I thought the original were 16 ohms. Or if you have or know where I can acquire pair of replacement woofers, please let me know.

All helps are much appreciated!

Best Regards

Dean

[yggdrasil]

Hi Dean.

Paragon was originally delivered with 150-4C. Later the 150-4C was replaced with LE15A and finally LE15H.

Here's some background: http://www.audioheritage.org/html/profiles/jbl/paragon.htm

Which serial number does your Paragon have?

The serial number should help deciding which woofers were installed originally in your Paragon. Your Paragon will have higher value with original driver configuration.

[Hofmannhp]

Hi Dean,

first of all.....welcome to the Forum and the Paragon owners club.

You have to know, that we here in the forum have a internal Registry for JBL Vintage speakers.
At this time there are 24 Paragons in the registry.
We like to add yours too.
We only need the serial numbers of the cab, also the punched number in the backside of the top plate and if possible the drivers numbers.
With this data we can help you to find out more about the history of yours.
As a feedback you can get the complete list of the registered Paragons or others if you like.

Just email me to: hofmannhp(at)aol.com ([email protected])

I am the guy in the forum for the registry.

regards

HP

[Don McRitchie]

To more specifically answer the original questions, you need to determine the vintage of your speaker, and then seek out the appropriate driver. The chances that your speaker came with the LE15A/H are at least 90% since the 150-4C was only used for a short time before 1960. I would not use any of the other drivers you listed as a replacement. Assuming it was originally supplied with an LE15A, you can easily find these on the used market (although they can be pricey). The LE15H or pro versions 2215B/H are also accoustically identical to the LE15A. (note: the "H" versions are ferrite magnet replacements for the original Alnico magnet drivers)

The grey surrounds you mentioned were used on the LE15A after 1975. As you noted, earlier versions had a yellow/white surround. Personally, I would seek out a set of LE15/2215's that been recently reconed with the dark grey surrounds. The light Lansaloy surrounds stiffen and crack with age. While there are DIY treatments to deal with this, I am not convinced that it restores the surronds to a condition that would meet current specs.

Take special note that the LE15B is not the same or similar to the LE15A. Avoid it as a replacement for the Paragon. Finally, the issue between 8 and 16 ohm versions of the LE15 is actually a non issue. Orginally, the majority of JBL drivers were nominally rated at 16 ohms. Some time in the 1960's, JBL changed their impedence rating standards and the nominal impedence was reported as 8 ohms. There were no physical changes to these drivers. Only the measurement system changed. Therefore there should be no problem using either an 8 or 16 ohm LE15A. The same is not true of the pro drivers. The 2215B is the mechanical and electrical equivalent of the LE15A. The 2215A is electrically different.

[hjames]

Dean - you might want to PM me so we can talk offlist-

I'm close to parting out my "4320 in L200 cabinets" at this point -
I've no room for 2 sets of big boxes, and no one seems to want to pay anything for them intact.

I have a pair of Alnico 15s - I bought them in a system Feb 2006 ...
see - http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=95542&postcount=31 (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=95542&postcount=31)

2215 15" woofer s/n 1566
2215 15" woofer s/n 2180

They were redone by a JBL shop in Philly for the previous owner a few years before I bought them - the foam surrounds are nice but I can't tell you if it was a recone or a refoam - there was no paperwork provided for that work.

I used them for over a year before I got the Pro monitors that replaced them, and the woofers are fine - nice bass.
One driver has a ding where the previous owner (I suspect) hit the cone with a screwdriver - but they had patched it and it does sound quite fine. That means they are not visually perfect but it may be a cheap way to get original type drivers for your paragon cabinet - we can talk money offlist.

Of course, the kicker for you may be the shipping charges to Australia from Virginia.

Weds AM - Added 2 image from my archives when I opened the 4320s March '06 - first shows the rear and label showing its a 2215 (no A or B).
Second shows the front of the one speaker with the repaired gash in the cone (like that when I bought them) Was fine with the 110w/ch receiver I played them with.

[dean28]

Thank you for your prompt post

Serial No. 42378

Best Regards

Dean



Hi Dean,

first of all.....welcome to the Forum and the Paragon owners club.

You have to know, that we here in the forum have a internal Registry for JBL Vintage speakers.
At this time there are 24 Paragons in the registry.
We like to add yours too.
We only need the serial numbers of the cab, also the punched number in the backside of the top plate and if possible the drivers numbers.
With this data we can help you to find out more about the history of yours.
As a feedback you can get the complete list of the registered Paragons or others if you like.

Just email me to: hofmannhp(at)aol.com ([email protected])

I am the guy in the forum for the registry.

regards

HP

[dean28]

Hi Don

Thank you for your post. I think mine is a later than 1960 (Serial No.42378) and probably the last line of production (from the look of the veneer it does not seem that old).

Best Regards

Dean



To more specifically answer the original questions, you need to determine the vintage of your speaker, and then seek out the appropriate driver. The chances that your speaker came with the LE15A/H are at least 90% since the 150-4C was only used for a short time before 1960. I would not use any of the other drivers you listed as a replacement. Assuming it was originally supplied with an LE15A, you can easily find these on the used market (although they can be pricey). The LE15H or pro versions 2215B/H are also accoustically identical to the LE15A. (note: the "H" versions are ferrite magnet replacements for the original Alnico magnet drivers)

The grey surrounds you mentioned were used on the LE15A after 1975. As you noted, earlier versions had a yellow/white surround. Personally, I would seek out a set of LE15/2215's that been recently reconed with the dark grey surrounds. The light Lansaloy surrounds stiffen and crack with age. While there are DIY treatments to deal with this, I am not convinced that it restores the surronds to a condition that would meet current specs.

Take special note that the LE15B is not the same or similar to the LE15A. Avoid it as a replacement for the Paragon. Finally, the issue between 8 and 16 ohm versions of the LE15 is actually a non issue. Orginally, the majority of JBL drivers were nominally rated at 16 ohms. Some time in the 1960's, JBL changed their impedence rating standards and the nominal impedence was reported as 8 ohms. There were no physical changes to these drivers. Only the measurement system changed. Therefore there should be no problem using either an 8 or 16 ohm LE15A. The same is not true of the pro drivers. The 2215B is the mechanical and electrical equivalent of the LE15A. The 2215A is electrically different.

[John]

:useless:

[dean28]

Hi Don

Thank you for your post. I think mine is a later than 1960 (Serial No.42378) and probably the last line of production (from the look of the veneer it does not seem that old).

Best Regards

Dean

Here is a picture of my Paragon