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View Full Version : Looky what I just got - L200s used for PA



pos
07-01-2007, 11:10 AM
I just bought this pair of L200.
The prior owner was using them for mobile PA, and they were -badly- modified for this -unappropriated- purpose.
One of the two LE15 was replaced by a Cerwin vega driver, and the second was reconed with a wrong kit (cloth surround).
The filters were modified to be used with a jack plug. I hope the normal wires still work. The filter box is now rifted so I may have trouble to open it.
One of the two compression driver does not play at all, maybe just the diaphragm, maybe the filter?...

I am not sure what I can do with these.
The metal edges are screed in the box, and I imagine the carpet that cover the entire box will be difficult to remove without damages.

So here are the choices:
- I try to restore the whole thing, and maybe even add a slot tweeter, and maybe even put my 2123H dog boxes on top of it.
- I part out what can be, and maybe use the boxes as well build test boxes for experiment, or as subs.
- I trow them from my roof, just to see if the metal edges and the carpet are strong enough.

What do you think?
I think all this will depend on what I find under the carpet, and what drivers I can find on ebay.

here are some pictures

pos
07-01-2007, 11:16 AM
oh, and they smell bad also :barf:

richluvsound
07-01-2007, 12:28 PM
Pos,

If you have 1500 euros+ to put into them then by all means , hang onto them.
Guido is the man to talk to about this. He could restore them to pretty close to the original spec.

Rich

Tom Brennan
07-01-2007, 12:38 PM
Actually there was an LE-15 with a corrugated cloth surround and I think it was the LE-15B. I used to have a pair of the things a few years ago.

Zilch
07-01-2007, 06:00 PM
Tom is correct:

http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Technical%20Sheet/L200%20ts.pdf

No driver makes better boomy fake bass than LE15B/2216, in my experience. L200 is the quintessential rock 'n' roll speaker; L100 on steroids.

LE15Bs sell for good money on eBay; I believe people think they're LE15As with greater longevity from not having foam. They are very different from that classic JBL extended-bass woofer.

To make these good, you'll need new woofers, crossovers, UHF drivers, mid diaphragms, and probably extensive cabinet rehab, i.e., you have a pair of LE85 cores and horns there.

I vote part-out.... :yes:

pos
07-02-2007, 03:17 AM
Thanks for your input.
I definitely do not want to put 1500 euros in them. My idea was to restore and sell them, but it seems more realistic to sell their parts.
The alnico drivers are certainly quite discharged (20+ years of PA...), so that will reduce their potential selling price. But at least the LE15B has the correct cone (and was redone in 2003, with an original JBL kit it seems).
I can keep the boxes anyway, and use them as subs (and speaker stands) for my 4412s. The veneer would be to hard too restore (to many screw holes, and traces of humidity on the bottom), but a black finish is doable.

I may also try the "L200 plus" design, © Zilch !

pos
07-09-2007, 03:13 AM
I am in the process of restoring the cabs.
I will sell the LE15B (anyone interested in europe?) and buy new aftermarket diphragms for the L-85.

I just received today two Beyma 15B100R (2235H copy) and I am now thinking about the mid/high section.
I would like to buy a 2405H (or maybe a Beyma CP21 copy) to turn it into a quasi L300, crossing the woofer active at 1khz with a stiff slope (sort of compromise between the 800hz of the L200B and the 1200Hz of the L200A).

But then I also have a 2123H waiting for a use, so I was also thinking about a quasi L400, puting the 2123H in a little dog box (maybe 0.25 cu ft) made with a rubber bucket. Do you think rubber is a good idea?
Putting the 2123H in a box on top of the cabinet is not an option (WAF related probelm).
Here is a little montage of what it would look like.

In this configuration the woofer would have less than 4.6 cu ft to live with.

What do you think?

spkrman57
07-09-2007, 06:57 AM
I might have to take a stab at something similiar with my L200 cabs!

Let's see what the experts have to say on this!:blink:

Ron

Robh3606
07-09-2007, 07:06 AM
If your going to go through the trouble I would build new cabinets. I can't see make shifting the driver arrangement to fit into an existing box. You also have rather large overhangs over the baffle that will give you all sorts of trouble if you drop the midrange up into the corner like that. Just start fresh and do it right with a clean slate.

Rob:)

Zilch
07-09-2007, 11:19 AM
I have no experience with the Beyma woofer.

I'd run the woofer and mid active (Behringer CX3400) and dial it between 800 and 1200 Hz to decide on the crossover frequency.

Actually, I might just build the full system that way (active) and forget passives altogether. 24 dB/octave L/R, it'll cross the UHF as high as 9.3 kHz.... :yes:

pos
07-09-2007, 11:20 AM
You are probably rigth Rob.
I am just not really skilled enough to build good cabs myself.
I was thinking about he problem with the overhangs. They should also be a problem for the 2405.

Plus I tried to put the Beyma 15" in the cabs and they *just* don't fit :banghead:
I will have to drill/sand to enlarge the 15" hole.

pos
07-09-2007, 11:29 AM
I have no experience with the Beyma woofer.

I'd run the woofer and mid active (Behringer CX3400) and dial it between 800 and 1200 Hz to decide on the crossover frequency.

Actually, I might just build the full system that way (active) and forget the passives altogether. 24 dB/octave L/R, it'll cross the UHF as high as 9.3 kHz.... :yes:

Yes I will run everything active, and protect the HF drivers with caps at 1/2 of the cutoff frequency.
I will be using a 5.1 PC sound card for this purpsose. That gives 3 stereo outputs that can be used with a special plugin for the foobar2000 media player :
http://xover.sourceforge.net/

pos
07-10-2007, 07:11 AM
I'm afraid I've got a stupid question to ask, sorry. One of the two LE85 does not work at all, and once opened the diaphragm shows signs of failure (the "surround" is split). I would expect some sort of distorded sound or noise at least, but nothing comes out of this driver. Is it normal given the broken diaphragm? Or could it be the magnet? The second LE85 is still sealed so I don't want to switch the diaphragm to test.

thanks

pos
07-15-2007, 09:30 AM
I just finished varnishing the cabs. The result is far from being perfect, but it is better than what it was at least.
I had to remove the metal edges and the carpets, sans the glue and the black paint, fill the *numerous* screw holes (some had caused the veneer to bump), then varnish.
I put the two Beyma 15B100R inside, but had to enlarge the hole a bit because the Beyma is larger than the JBLs. But the tnuts would have to be more spaced as well, so for now I just fixed the speakers with 2 or 3 screws par side. I will have to drill new holes, interlaced with the old ones (I want to keep them).

JBLRaiser
07-15-2007, 01:54 PM
I'm afraid I've got a stupid question to ask, sorry. One of the two LE85 does not work at all, and once opened the diaphragm shows signs of failure (the "surround" is split). I would expect some sort of distorded sound or noise at least, but nothing comes out of this driver. Is it normal given the broken diaphragm? Or could it be the magnet? The second LE85 is still sealed so I don't want to switch the diaphragm to test.

thanks

check the leads to the diaphragms, maybe they are broken. Some solder could fix that if they are broken.

Zilch
07-15-2007, 03:13 PM
I'm afraid I've got a stupid question to ask, sorry. One of the two LE85 does not work at all, and once opened the diaphragm shows signs of failure (the "surround" is split). I would expect some sort of distorded sound or noise at least, but nothing comes out of this driver. Is it normal given the broken diaphragm? Or could it be the magnet? The second LE85 is still sealed so I don't want to switch the diaphragm to test.With their history of use in PA, I suspect both LE85s are in similar condition and in need of refurbishing.

This presents some issues. The original aluminum tangential-surround diaphragms are no longer available. In JBL, you have two choices, both diamond-surround, aluminum or titanium. The aluminum ones are somewhat pricey by comparison, but may sound better due to the inherent damping of the material.

My recommendation would be to send BOTH LE85s to the factory for refurbishing, recharging, and installation of the factory diaphragm type of your choice.

However, consider that for the price of doing that, you could acquire another pair of used (and perhaps equally tired) LE85s, or maybe two pair of used 2425/6 drivers, also of indeterminate condition.

OR, as you originally suggested, install some aftermarket diaphragms in them and call them "done." :yes:

pos
07-16-2007, 01:53 AM
check the leads to the diaphragms, maybe they are broken. Some solder could fix that if they are broken.
The leads seem ok, but the diphragm is crackled. I suppose this is the cause of the silence, but I would have expected some sort of sound. I will test the leads tonight.
thanks

pos
07-16-2007, 02:05 AM
With their history of use in PA, I suspect both LE85s are in similar condition and in need of refurbishing.

This presents some issues. The original aluminum tangential-surround diaphragms are no longer available. In JBL, you have two choices, both diamond-surround, aluminum or titanium. The aluminum ones are somewhat pricey by comparison, but may sound better due to the inherent damping of the material.

My recommendation would be to send BOTH LE85s to the factory for refurbishing, recharging, and installation of the factory diaphragm type of your choice.

However, consider that for the price of doing that, you could acquire another pair of used (and perhaps equally tired) LE85s, or maybe two pair of used 2425/6 drivers, also of indeterminate condition.

OR, as you originally suggested, install some aftermarket diaphragms in them and call them "done." :yes:

I can recharge them in a shop nearby for 50€ per driver.
Do you think HF drivers really need that kind of recharge? The network was a "A" version, so they were quite protected.
Even the LE15B seems charged: the global efficiency of the system sounds very high. I have done an A/B comparison with a 4412 and the L200 sounds 5-6db louder.

I thinks I will install aftemarket diaphragms in both drivers (and change the rotten rear foam). I also heard about beryllium aftermaket diaphragms. Do you thinks they are worth the extra cost?
I am interested in UHF extension because I might use them with 2344 (if I find a pair). I think I will use them to test many things!
Zilch, do you think inserting a 2344 in the L200 would be a good idea?
As you said in your q&d thread they "just fit" (they might just go 1/4 inch over the ports). However as Rob mentioned there are those overhangs on top of the L200 that could perturb the directivity?

Robh3606
07-16-2007, 04:57 AM
Don't worry about getting them recharged. This is part of a post by Greg Timbers.


Underhung woofers (LE15 and such) midranges, tweeters and compression drivers do not have sufficient back EMF fields to push the operating point of the structure below the knee. They are essentially stable regardless of input signal. The short gap-long coil speakers are the ones that have a problem.

Rob:)

pos
07-16-2007, 05:51 AM
Great! Thank you Rob.

pos
07-16-2007, 10:11 AM
I also heard about neodym aftermaket diaphragms. Do you thinks they are worth the extra cost?

err, I meant beryllium!

Zilch
07-16-2007, 10:38 AM
Zilch, do you think inserting a 2344 in the L200 would be a good idea?
As you said in your q&d thread they "just fit" (they might just go 1/4 inch over the ports). However as Rob mentioned there are those overhangs on top of the L200 that could perturb the directivity?I worried about that and ultimately used the compact PT waveguides, which will fit lower down in the original horn location. You're $10 apiece plus a thread-on throat adapter for LE85 away from trying that 90° x 50°.... :thmbsup:

pos
07-16-2007, 12:52 PM
I worried about that and ultimately used the compact PT waveguides, which will fit lower down in the original horn location. You're $10 apiece plus a thread-on throat adapter for LE85 away from trying that 90° x 50°.... :thmbsup:

$10 per horn?! I thought they were much more expensive than that!
But it migth be difficult to find it in france.
In what model is this horn used?

Zilch
07-16-2007, 03:35 PM
$10 per horn?! I thought they were much more expensive than that!
But it migth be difficult to find it in france.
In what model is this horn used?Part# 338800-001, used in several products, AC2215/95 is one for reference.

The more expensive ones are 1.5" throat and require an additional adapter.

pos
07-17-2007, 11:50 AM
You also have rather large overhangs over the baffle that will give you all sorts of trouble

Please, give me one reason not to do this :D

pos
07-17-2007, 11:57 AM
Part# 338800-001, used in several products, AC2215/95 is one for reference.

The more expensive ones are 1.5" throat and require an additional adapter.
Thanks Zilch!

Robh3606
07-17-2007, 12:42 PM
Please, give me one reason not to do this :D

If the cabinets were in really good shape:banghead:

I honestly don't like to see original cabinets modified. I would rather see them sold. The cabinets are just getting harder and harder to find . If you do decide to cut them put the midrange in off center and mirrored L/R and build a sub enclosure for the compression driver and slot to drop up top. You could line them up like a 4344 if you wanted.

Rob:)

Zilch
07-17-2007, 03:30 PM
Overhangs are not an issue if you work with them. A compact 90° x 50° PT waveguide's not even gonna see 'em; 100° x 100° neither, probably, and they're better than 2344(A) anyway. You brought the wrong saw, is all:

Zilch
07-17-2007, 03:55 PM
I wouldn't enlarge the woofer cutout either, rather, use an adapter ring to shim it forward.

One day you may want to put the "right" woofers in there.... :yes:

pos
07-17-2007, 04:13 PM
That's too late for the woofer cutout: it is already enlarged. This only by 1/10 inch or so, so a JBL woofers would still fit.
The problem with the tnuts is more difficult to deal with: I will have to insert 8 new tnuts between the existing ones, with the right dimension for the beyma woofer. That way I will still be able to put a JBL woofer, depending of the tnuts set I choose.

Back to these overhangs.
I would like to get ride of them, regardless of what configuration I choose.
I do not have grilles and do not plan to build one: I like to see the drivers.
These overhangs are just a waste of space, plus they are the most dented part of the cabs (see pics below).
I know the L200 are becoming collectible, but these ones are far beyond that point already.

But if someone want to take them from my hand he can send me a pm!

Here are the pics. The flash makes them look worse than in reality, but you get the idea. All these brown points were screw holes. They are maybe 20 of them on each cabinet.

pos
07-17-2007, 04:16 PM
ok, done with the circular saw. Here is the result:

Zilch
07-17-2007, 04:38 PM
All these brown points were screw holes. They are maybe 20 of them on each cabinet.Poo. You'd hype them for all they're worth as "character" if they were in a provincial farm table.... :p

Robh3606
07-17-2007, 07:27 PM
they were in a provincial farm table.... :p

Worm holes

Rob:)