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pos
06-26-2007, 12:40 PM
I have an opportunity to buy a pair of 15B100R.
I was looking for a pair of 2235 but could not find any at a decent price.
I know that Guido was using this driver for his 4430 clone. As I understand it the 15B100R is closer to a 2234 than to a 2235.

I want to use it up to 300hz, with a 2123 up to 1200hz (a single 15B100R per speaker).
Anyone have experience with this driver? Would it perform well in such a configuration?

thanks

Guido
06-27-2007, 03:50 AM
As I understand it the 15B100R is closer to a 2234 than to a 2235.

Anyone have experience with this driver? Would it perform well in such a configuration?

thanks

It's a nice driver, very close to the 2234. Should work well with your config.

If you insist on going non JBL try the Usher 15HM Studio also.

Earl K
06-27-2007, 04:27 AM
Hi Guido,

- I looked around at Beymas' website for a pdf for this 15" woofer ( no luck ) .
- It appears it's been discontinued / what do you know about that ?
- Do you have a pdf for this 15" .

- I already had on file the pdf for the 12" version , ( the 12B100R ) / which appears to still be current and available.

( Click this pic to download the pdf for the 12" version)
http://profesional.beyma.com/ENGLISH/get_img.php?id=61 (http://profesional.beyma.com/ENGLISH/pdf/descarga.php?pdf=12B100-R.pdf)
- Looking at the specs for the 12" I notice it's a very short coil ( 12 mm ) operating within the same depth of gap that JBL uses for the 2203 ( 7 mm ).
- As a result of the short coil used in the 12B100R, "real xmax" is severely limited ( one shouldn't be fooled by an "xmax damage" figure which ignores how much cone travel is available before a 10% distortion figure is reached .)

- ie; ( IMHO ) Beymas' answer to the 2203H doesn't have the necessary Xmax to really be called a true competitor to the JBL model they clearly copied.

- Do you think the 15" version suffers from this same handicap ?

<> :)

pos
06-27-2007, 06:02 AM
I have the pdf at home, I will se if I can send it on the forum as an attachment, or at least report its specs here.
As I remember the Xmax is also quite small compared to a 2234, something like 3mm.

pos
06-27-2007, 06:05 AM
It's a nice driver, very close to the 2234. Should work well with your config.

If you insist on going non JBL try the Usher 15HM Studio also.

thank you.

I don't really insist, but it is difficult to do otherwise now. 2235 are rare and expensive.
I would like to buy a LE14H-3, but the retail price seems very expensive in france (something like 460 euros) whereas it is 200 pounds in the UK (and comming from Harman France!). Is it the same in Germany?

pos
06-27-2007, 06:16 AM
I have the pdf at home, I will se if I can send it on the forum as an attachment, or at least report its specs here.
As I remember the Xmax is also quite small compared to a 2234, something like 3mm.

the pdf is not online but the HTML conversion of it is still in google's cache:
http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:zK9JYv4m-gwJ:www.beyma.de/seiten/beymatable/pdf/15b100r.pdf+beyma+15B100R+filetype:pdf&hl=fr&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=fr

Earl K
06-27-2007, 06:26 AM
I have the pdf at home, I will se if I can send it on the forum as an attachment, or at least report its specs here.

- That would be helpful .


As I remember the Xmax is also quite small compared to a 2234, something like 3mm.

- Xmax matters ! ( perhaps a bit more to the younger set that the more sedate crowd / like me ;) )

- Still, personally I wouldn't bother with a 15" woofer that has less than 5mm of real Xmax ( the Alltec 416 being an exception because of it's underhung coil ) . ( A JBL 2225H has an Xmax of 5mm and I consider it to be the minimum amount for a woofer of the "overhung coil" topology ).

- One runs out of voice-coil travel quite quickly when a low QTS 15" is put in a big box and tuned low ( run some box/woofer alignment SIMs, to see what I mean ).

<> :) <>

Earl K
06-27-2007, 07:05 AM
the pdf is not online but the HTML conversion of it is still in google's cache:

Okay , good, thanks !

- A couple of notes on woofer design that matter a lot to me.
- I'm in the SR business ( Sound Reinforcement ) so some of my priorities may be different than others that post here.

(1) I look for a Bl figure from an 8 ohm 15", that is over 20 T*m
(2) I would never break the above rule when a woofers "mms" figure is over 100 grams
(3) I prefer a QTS figure that is below .3 ( there's a bit more leyway here depending on application / it could go to .35 )
(4) When a woofer is being used primarily for LF extension ( air pump ), I want it to have a power handling of at least 200 watts rms .
(5) When wanting LF extension, I want the Fs figure to be no higher than 30 hz
(6) When looking for a 15" woofer that can "punch" out a lot of air on a full time basis / I'm looking for a mms figure that is above 125 grams. ( NOTE: The heavier the cone becomes, the stronger the woofers' motor needs to be, essentially reinforcing rules 1 to 4 )
(7) When all of the above 6 points are met / then I want the Xmax to be at least 7mm .

- If you don't have any computer software for SIMMing woofer/box alignments / now is the time to get some before you discover you have bought the wrong woofer for your application .

<> :) <>

pos
06-28-2007, 12:54 AM
Thanks Earl, I definitely have to install such a software.

If I can get the beyma really cheap it will at least be a start, easily upgradable to "real" 2235 one day. This is for a home use so I do not plan to test the Xmax thing any soon.

thanks a lot to both of you for your advices

WilliO
06-29-2007, 06:02 AM
First of all I would like to say "thank you very much" to all of you giving
me a lot of information about JBL-speakers, drivers and horns during the
past years, because, this is my first post!
Concerning the Beyma's I would like to tell you a short story:
For nearly 27 years I was a proudly owner of a pair 2203H. After 15 years
the speakers has been reconed by JBLPro/Harman Germany.
A few years ago, a german Diy-loudspeakermagazin (Klang & Ton) has tested the Beyma and they got a very good result. At the time, it seems to me that these woofers are very close the 2203H. Of course, they have
different TSP's (better for BR) and most of all a higher SPL.
Via Ebay I got two single woofers from different sellers during a year -just
for testing- competing my JBL's.
I hate it to say: After a half year of listening and testing the Beyma's
beat my JBL's quite clearly. The Beyma's are very good, producing a powerful and also a very clear sound with a lot of fine details
concerning snares and drums in a 55L cabinet. And they are ideal partners to my 2245H. x-over= 70 Hz
In the meantime my 2203H are sold to a JBL-collector in Germany.
Greetings from Holland to all of you.
Willi

pos
06-29-2007, 08:58 AM
At the time, it seems to me that these woofers are very close the 2203H. Of course, they have
different TSP's (better for BR) and most of all a higher SPL.
Via Ebay I got two single woofers from different sellers during a year -just
for testing- competing my JBL's.

They were 12B100R ?

WilliO
06-30-2007, 02:11 AM
Hi pos,
yes, my woofers are the 12' version. In my mind, this woofers
have a lot of both, the 2203 and 2204.
As fas as I know, the 15B100R is out of portfolio/production.

pos
06-30-2007, 04:34 AM
I have an opportunity to by a used pair of 15", so if I can get them under 200 euros it seems to be a bargain.
I hope it will be as good as the 12" version !
Thanks a lot WilliO !

WilliO
06-30-2007, 05:05 AM
Hi pos,
if you can buy the Beyma's for less than 200 :applaud: do it!!!
But check them first if possible and the seller is unknown.
Otherwise, reconing is possible and not to expensive.
Good luck.
Willi

pos
07-21-2007, 12:29 PM
I bought the beymas, for 196€ including shipping.
The woofers are in very good shape.
One thing I found strange is that the cutout diameter and the bolt diameter are not the same as JBL 15 inch drivers. This is strange for a JBL clone because you have to adjust your speaker to install the beymas.
I had to do it on my L200. Enlarging the cutout is easy, but I will use clamps for the mounting.

Here are some simulations using WinISD.
The first picture compares the 15B100R to 2235H and 2234H in a 140L box (4.95 cu ft) tuned to 34hz.
The beyma seems closer to the 2235H that to the 2234H.
The 2235 goes 5hz deeper than the beyma at -3db in this box. The beyma needs a 200L box (7 cu ft) to achieve the exact same response curve. In fact the 15B100R is a perfect 2235H clone if you give it a bigger box.

The second picture compares the 12B100R to the 2203H in a 55L box (1.9 cu ft) tuned to 35hz.

Motus
07-21-2007, 12:50 PM
Why would anyone who value the qualities of JBL drivers would go out of their way to get clones or inferior products? Is it because some are cheaper? JBL quality comes at a price but that price is far from being expensive: it is the price of quality. It's true for JBL and for any other maker in any other field. A Steinway is a Steinway is a Steinway, period. If anything, it highlights the outrageous margin the cheap stuff is making on unsuspecting buyers... Many indeed are fakes, just like fake Hermes bags and should follow the same fate than fake Rolex watches at the border. It is also because of these subpar products invasion that we amateurs are deprived of the great, cheaper -check the price tag of the Fostex tweeters- tweeters such as 2402, 2404 and 2405. I was told by someone at JBL that they became too expensive to produce compared to the competition. This search for the cheapest thrill is simply killing legitimate businesses, that yes make a profit, should make a profit because they deserve to make a good living selling good products. Sorry for the rant but this is a sticky point with me.

pos
07-21-2007, 02:09 PM
I am willing to pay the price for real JBL, but I have yet to find a 2235H pair in france...
I have been watching ebay.fr day and nigth for more than 6 months now, looking for a 2235H pair in good shape.
I found these beyma and bougth them, so I can try things, and resell them when I find THE JBLs one day.
Sell me your 2235Hs (with free shipping), and I am okay to burn thoses nasty clones for you!

pos
11-08-2008, 03:08 AM
Here are th T/S and distortion curves of the Beyma 15B100R.
This PDF cannot be found on the web anymore.

timc
11-08-2008, 10:04 AM
I have listened to some time on a subsystem consisting of two 5x12" beyma subtowers. The system was driven by a Crown I-tech 6000. The result was very good. Flat to about 16Hz with a bit of EQ. Thes system was an ELF construction, and the woofers worked up to about 100Hz.


-Tim

Hoerninger
11-08-2008, 10:40 AM
The result was very good.
The are quite a few speaker manufacturers and you can successfully use their speakers.
But when looking for a substitute it is often very difficulty.
____________
Peter

timc
11-08-2008, 11:23 AM
That is very true. On that subject, how do you think the P.audio version of the 2241 and 2226 would work? http://www.p-audio.co.uk/products/db_1_5.htm



-Tim

Hoerninger
11-08-2008, 11:51 AM
... how do you think the P.audio version ... would work?
Tim,
I do not dare to say anything about it as I have no experience with these speakers. :(
This statement does not prevent me from bying speakers by specsheets. I compare the specs (and prize) and look what is more or less important for me. It is a question of compromises.
Luckily the last time I did it the result showd what was expected. (not intended as hi-end)
____________
Peter

Earl K
11-09-2008, 05:29 AM
Here are th T/S and distortion curves of the Beyma 15B100R.
This PDF cannot be found on the web anymore.

Thanks for that . It's always nice to have this info on file .

<> cheers

Earl K
11-09-2008, 05:34 AM
That is very true. On that subject, how do you think the P.audio version of the 2241 and 2226 would work?

Both mentioned examples ( copies ) have shorter voice coils than the JBL originals . This reduces available "engine - stroke" and limits the Xmax spec. / which is important to those who desire big , loud bass .

<. cheers

Earl K
11-09-2008, 05:44 AM
The are quite a few speaker manufacturers and you can successfully use their speakers.
But when looking for a substitute it is often very difficulty.


- Perhaps someone over there ( within the "EU" area ) should contact B&C speakers . Tell them their basic "15tbx100" offering is just begging to be modified into either a clone of the 1500sub or the 1500Fe/ME150h hifi woofer . The requisite changes ( which ought to be made at the factory level ) are raising all the compliances ( as well as, mass loading the cone when building up the 1500sub "standin" ) .


<> cheers

Ian Mackenzie
11-09-2008, 11:25 AM
Earl,

I very much doubt this particular driver was ever meant to be anything other then a hifi woofer least of all a 2235H replacement.

According to well imformed sources the the T/L of P Audio is all over the place in production .

The Tad 1603 would be an interesting replacement, altough it needs a large box.

Hoerninger
11-09-2008, 12:31 PM
Earl,
...anything other then a hifi woofer least of all a 2235H replacement.

I have only read "just begging to be modified" with changes in compliance and mass loading.
Compared to many others it is an interesting speaker:
BL = 25,5 Tm
Xmax = +/-9 mm
QTS = 0,28
Mms = 163 g
Fs = 35 Hz


According to well imformed sources the the T/L of P Audio is all over the place in production .
Query mind wants to know a more specific type, thank you.
____________
Peter

Ian Mackenzie
11-09-2008, 01:03 PM
Must be a lanuage barrier.

Extreme Example Fs varies 100% of the spec sheet from one driver of same model to another.

Hoerninger
11-24-2008, 05:11 AM
Must be a lanuage barrier.
Yes. Neither
http://pda.leo.org/ ,
http://www.dict.cc/ ,
any acronymfinder nor
Wikipedia
offered any help.
____________
Peter :(