PDA

View Full Version : PL2x vs Logic 7 vs Neo6



Rusnzha
06-08-2007, 07:41 PM
I had my Onkyo TX-DS 797 long enough to get a few renewal notices to a 3 year service contract. The only things worth listening to on it was Neo6 and PL2 (5.1). The PL2 always sounded too fat and the Neo6 sounded too thin. I compared them A/B style and by using them both as defaults. Most of my CDs seemed to like one or the other better, but I wasn't totally thrilled with either.

Getting the HK 7300 was a step in the right direction. I'm at the point with the HK where I want to choose a default setting. I'm leaning toward Logic 7. There are things that PL2x does better on some CDs. I don't know if Neo6 just sucks on this box or the others just sound that much better, but it isn't in the running as a default setting. I will leave it on Logic 7 until it gives me a good reason to change it.

Titanium Dome
06-09-2007, 11:45 AM
I agree with your opinion that Neo:6 is the lesser of the formats, though not everyone does:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/archive/index.php/t-67515.html

http://www.avforums.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-253662.html

Surprisingly, the Best Buy Web site has a decent thumbnail of PLII, DTS Neo:6, and PLIIx.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=pcmcat22300050003&type=category

I think Neo:6 is usually better than PLII, and PLIIx is usually better than Neo:6. In particular, I find the adjustability of PLIIx and its superior 7.1 implementation to be major plusses.

As for Logic7 it has the benefit of being completely proprietary. It also has the same detriment: it's proprietary. Yes, I understand that all these formats are proprietary (before some genius attempts to point out the obvious), but Dolby and DTS license their formats for both encoding and decoding, while Harman doesn't do that with Logic7.

Still, Logic7 is a very, very good application, and it often sounds "better," even when it's not "right" (decoding the material the way it was encoded). However, it's very subjective, just like whether one runs his/her system "flat" to make it "right" or "EQed" to make it more pleasing.

I'm all for pleasing my self and #@^& the rest, so PLIIx-C and PLIIx-M is my default, but I know how to switch to DD EX, DTS ES, DTS Neo:6, stereo, and 7.1 analog bypass when I want it.

Rusnzha
06-10-2007, 12:40 AM
Thanks for the links, they were helpful. With the old receiver, I did lean toward Neo6. I agree that PL2x is a huge improvement over PL2. The truth is that PL2x never sounds bad, but different music seems to like one or the other better. Sometimes, it's a toss up.

It didn't take me long to have to switch out of Logic 7. When someting really doesn't work with L7, it has it's own way of letting you know. The bass gets tubby and exagerrated. It sounds so bad, you have to change it. In that situation, I go to PL2x.

On most of the stuff, L7 works nicely. I like the tone better and the space is very realistic. It also has a more solid presence than the other modes The problem is that somethings can sound very bad on it. I guess that's what remotes are for. For now, I will use it with everything it works on.

Titanium Dome
06-10-2007, 11:37 AM
Over on AVS forums we had a broader discussion about this a few years ago. I wrote "discussion" to make it sound rational, adult, and civilized; it was more like a cock fight.

Surprisingly, the group in the discussion trended toward DTS solutions over Dolby solutions, L7, Cirrus Extra Surround, SRS Circle Surround, or Sony Dynamic Digital Sound. However, part of that can be attributed to the influence of industry plants and dealers in those forums. Among the few who openly defied the DTS juggernaut were me and Roger Dressler of Dolby labs. At least he's very open about where he works, and he knows the system inside and out.

Of course, his honesty was eventually turned against him by the typical forum bigots and bullies: when they can't win on logic they turn to defamation. I've posted a lot less there since.

An interesting historical note is the development of 6Axis by Jim Fosgate (precursor to ProLogicII) at Citation while at the same time David Griesinger was developing Logic7 at Lexicon. Both brands were in the Harman family and doing independent development at the time.

With some significant modification, PLII was acquired by Dolby while L7 became the Harman International standard bearer.

A very informative Logic7 white paper is at the Lexicon site:

http://www.lexicon.com/logic7/whitepapers/Progress_in_5-2-5.pdf

Perhaps that's more than you want to know. ;)

MJC
06-10-2007, 07:10 PM
Over on AVS forums we had a broader discussion about this a few years ago. I wrote "discussion" to make it sound rational, adult, and civilized; it was more like a cock fight.

Surprisingly, the group in the discussion trended toward DTS solutions over Dolby solutions, L7, Cirrus Extra Surround, SRS Circle Surround, or Sony Dynamic Digital Sound. However, part of that can be attributed to the influence of industry plants and dealers in those forums. Among the few who openly defied the DTS juggernaut were me and Roger Dressler of Dolby labs. At least he's very open about where he works, and he knows the system inside and out.
;)
I'm one who prefers dts over anything Dolby. When I watch a movie on sat or cable I set Logic 7. If I'm watching a DVD that has dts-es that is what I use.
For DVD-A, I use the direct input, I find it to be better than the dts track.

Rusnzha
07-19-2007, 02:04 AM
Thanks Dome for the article. I would have to return to college for 2 or 3 more years to really understand it, but I got some idea of what has gone in to L7.

Trying to use a default setting with the the HK 7300 might not be the smartest idea. For detail and definition, PL2x is definitely the front runner. I like L7's tone a little better and it does some other things very well.

It really depends on source material. A comparison of the 2 is the only way to know which is really best.

JBL 4645
07-21-2007, 12:29 AM
Pro-Logic II is not Dolby 5.1 it’s a neat way of matrix decoding but it tends to add too much crosstalk in the fake so called split-surrounds from the centre channel. I prefer Dolby Pro-Logic as that resembles true to the professional version. Dolby six channel digital is whole different ball game entirely which is based on the 70mm six-track magnetic strip version or Dolby 5.1 as some refer it to.

Rusnzha
04-28-2008, 02:38 PM
Just got my Sony ES999 player back from Modwright. http://www.modwright.com/products/index.php?product_id=10
Some things benefit more than other from this upgrade, but everything sounds much better. Some of the biggest improvement is in 16 bit CD sound. Many, but not all of my CDs sound more like good 24 bit sound, but all are greatly improved.

The most interesting thing is that Logic7 seems to work much better than PL2x with the digital and analog improvements. Where I prefered PL2x, Logic7 sounds better and the problems associated with it are gone. The difference is closer on some things than on others. The tendancy of PL2x is to sound thin and hollow compared to Logic7. It can get ugly! So far everything I've compared has sounded better in L7. I still don't believe this will always be true, but it will be interesting finding out.

Rusnzha
05-05-2008, 02:01 AM
It seems that the problems connected with Logic 7 were caused by my player. Since the improvements, Logic 7 sounds best with everything without exception. If I only had PL2x, it would not be a good situation. The only conclusion is that Logic 7 was developed with and for high quality sources. With the Modwright player, it is the default setting. Nothing else even comes close.