jbl l200? 300's

[radioactive]

a friend of mine recently purchased what he thought were a pr of jbl l300's.i was out at his place last weekend and snapped off a few pics.when i got home i looked them up on the lansing heritage site and it turns out the cabinets are really the 200b.although the 200's are a 2 way system.it looks as if someone updated these by adding the tweeter and changing the crossover network to the back (it's now a jbl lx300)
after telling him what he had he questioned the seller and was told that there was a factory upgrade that you could do to them to make them l300's and thats what was done to his.is this true?
i really doubt it as the l200's have 2 ports and the l300 has only1.
check out the pics and let me know what you think.
also can anyone provide me any info on the lx300 crossover?
chris

[Don McRitchie]

This system is problematic and is not the functional equivalent of the L300. The starting point was an L200A and not an L200B. The "A" version used an LE15B woofer vs the 136A of the L200B and L300. The LX300 is the correct cross-over for the L300, but it was never designed to work with the LE15B. That woofer has a substantially different response and sensitivity. The fact that the woofer is an LE15B is confirmed by the pleated surround seen in the picture vs the half roll foam surround used on the 136A.

[boputnam]

Hey, Radioactive...


Here's the tech sheet on the L200 family...

[boputnam]

...and that for the L300 family. So you can see the component matching that JBL designed and intended. :yes:

[radioactive]

thanks all for the help so far ill have to pass this info onto my friend.
i still havnt heard anything about the upgrades i was told about.i dont see how it would have been possible to upgrade by just changing drivers crossovers etc.. when theres the extra port on the 200a.any thoughts on this
chris

[Mr. Widget]

It isn't possible to fully "upgrade" the L200 to an L300. Yes you can change the woofer, the tuning (number and length of ports), add the super tweeter, and change the crossover, but unfortunately you can't fit the longer HL92 horn in the L200 cabinet.

Currently the tuning is correct for the LE15B woofer that is shown in the photos, if you change the woofer you will need to change the ports. You will either need to lengthen both of them, or do as JBL did and plug one. Ideally you would adjust it's length to give the driver it's proper tuning. As Don pointed out the LE15B woofer is not a proper match for the new crossover either.

[radioactive]

youve all been pretty helpful and ive got it all in perspective now.ill pass the info onto my friend.regards,
chris

[boputnam]

Originally posted by radioactive
"pretty helpful"... ??? :(

[radioactive]

boputnam ,
im not sure what your trying to say but the info that was provided was helpful in determining that the speakers were upgraded to a certain point and that its not possible to fit the hl92 horn into the l200 cabinet.that the le15b is the wrong match for the lx300 crossover network etc.....as far as unhappy theyre not my speakers so i cant comment on that .my friend seems to be pleased with them the way they are but did mention that the bass seems to be lacking.possibly the crossover? ive only heard them briefly so i cant give a detailed description on the sound perhaps next weekend when i go out to his place ill be able to give them a good listen. my friend doesnt have a computer so if he has any questions ill be sure to post them here.
chris

[Alex Lancaster]

Don:

According to my old spec sheet, the LE15, 2215A or B, used a half roll suspension like the 136, also the ferrite H´s, so in this case He has possibly a 2205 or a bastard recone job; if the owner is happy, well....

Alex.

[4313B]

The LE15B and 2216 used the C8RLE15B assembly.
The LE15A, 2215, and 2215B used the C16R2215 assembly with half roll surround.
The LE15H, 2215H used the C8RLE15H assembly with half roll surround.
The 2215A used the C8R2215 assembly with half roll surround.

The 4320 used the 2215B and the 4325 used the 2216 - here's a pic of the 4320 and 4325
http://www.audioheritage.org/images/jbl/extracts/stacked-monitors.jpg

Damn I love our Library! :yes:
You had me going there for a bit Alex :)

[Alex Lancaster]

That teaches me to never ass-u-me; I hate LE15´s and 2215´s anyway; Wouldn´t the top "shelf" affect the 2405?

Thanks, Alex.

[4313B]

"I hate LE15´s and 2215´s anyway"

:rotfl:

Those enclosures were a product of the times ;)
I'm not a huge fan of them either.

[radioactive]

i guess the only way to find out what he has for the 15' is to pop it out and check.ill be going out to his place this weekend and will check the speakers out more thouroghly and find out what is exactly in the cabinets.ill report back then with my findings.
chris

[Don McRitchie]

I don't think there is any question that it is an LE15B. That was the woofer used in the original L200 and it looks identical to that in your picture. You can see it in cross-section here:

http://lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/reference/general/1974-insight/In12.jpg

If you compare the surround and cone, you will see it is identical to that on your friend's system.

The LE15B is a rare animal that was only in production for 3 years. It uses the same chasis as the LE15A, only with a lighter cone and underdamped suspension. The story of its development and subsequent discontinuance is told here:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=5964&highlight=4325#post5964

[Chas]

Don, everytime I open these attachments they end up way too small to read. What am I doing wrong? There's something I'm missing..........:banghead:
Charles.

[radioactive]

they should open with internet explorer.just move your mouse icon over the image and a small square should appear in the bottom right hand side of the image.just click on it and it should bring it upto size for reading.
chris

[4313B]

I don't know if this might be the issue but you can disable Automatic Image Resizing in Internet Exploder too -

[Chas]

Thanks guys, it works now.
Charles.:smthsail:

[John]

Hi Chris send me a PM with your PH# and i will share with you what i have heard about those L200,s. I have seen those around town.:confused:

[4313B]

So what!? You sayin' they're sluts!?

[John]

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Yes that could be the case.

[witoman]

It isn't possible to fully "upgrade" the L200 to an L300. Yes you can change the woofer, the tuning (number and length of ports), add the super tweeter, and change the crossover, but unfortunately you can't fit the longer HL92 horn in the L200 cabinet.


But can't you:

* take the LE85 out of the L200 cab,
* replace the H91 with an H92 (or 2212),
* place the LE85/H92 in an DYI 12" x 12" open baffle/stand with the L91 velcro'd on the front,
* place this assembly on top of the L200 cab,
* run the amp output through a crossover that splits at 8500 Hz,
* run the 8499 Hz and below signal to a 3110 crossover mounted in the L200 cab,
* run the 8500 Hz and above signal to the 077/2405 also sitting on top of the L200 cab in a DIY open baffle/stand,
* run the high frequency wire leads from the 3110 crossover out to the LE85,
* run the low frequency wire leads from the 3110 crossover to a 136A (or 2231 or 2235) woofer in the L200 cab, and finally
* cover the original LE85 cutout and one of the two ports in the L200 cab?

This assumes that the LE85/H92 doesn't need an enclosure and that its absence from the interior of the L200 cab doesn't much matter.

[Mr. Widget]

But can't you:

* take the LE85 out of the L200 cab,
* replace the H91 with an H92 (or 2212),
* place the LE85/H92 in an DYI 12" x 12" open baffle/stand with the L91 velcro'd on the front,
* place this assembly on top of the L200 cab,Sure... but that doesn't sound too attractive.



* run the amp output through a crossover that splits at 8500 Hz,
* run the 8499 Hz and below signal to a 3110 crossover mounted in the L200 cab,
* run the 8500 Hz and above signal to the 077/2405 also sitting on top of the L200 cab in a DIY open baffle/stand,
* run the high frequency wire leads from the 3110 crossover out to the LE85,
* run the low frequency wire leads from the 3110 crossover to a 136A (or 2231 or 2235) woofer in the L200 cab, and finally
This will not be equivalent, however if you are willing to go through with the first bit you can build a new crossover from info posted here on this forum by member "4313B" that is equivalent to the L300's N1333.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=166


Widget

[toddalin]

:rolleyes:
But can't you:

* take the LE85 out of the L200 cab,
* replace the H91 with an H92 (or 2212),
* place the LE85/H92 in an DYI 12" x 12" open baffle/stand with the L91 velcro'd on the front,
* place this assembly on top of the L200 cab,
* run the amp output through a crossover that splits at 8500 Hz,
* run the 8499 Hz and below signal to a 3110 crossover mounted in the L200 cab,
* run the 8500 Hz and above signal to the 077/2405 also sitting on top of the L200 cab in a DIY open baffle/stand,
* run the high frequency wire leads from the 3110 crossover out to the LE85,
* run the low frequency wire leads from the 3110 crossover to a 136A (or 2231 or 2235) woofer in the L200 cab, and finally
* cover the original LE85 cutout and one of the two ports in the L200 cab?

This assumes that the LE85/H92 doesn't need an enclosure and that its absence from the interior of the L200 cab doesn't much matter.


Lots easier to just drill a big hole in the back of the cabinet and put a small dog house over it. Heck, if I could get three H92 horns reasonably, I'd drill a hole in the back of my cabinets and just epoxy a PVC cap over it leaving room for the driver. Could even fit a piece of PVC pipe in the hole (~2" long x 6" (or whatever) dia) and make this removable for easy driver replacement.

[witoman]

Sure... but that doesn't sound too attractive.

This will not be equivalent, however if you are willing to go through with the first bit you can build a new crossover from info posted here on this forum by member "4313B" that is equivalent to the L300's N1333.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=166


Widget

Thanks. This is an innocent question. If I was to do as you suggest with the crossover, what would not be equivalent in this modded L200 to an L300, soundwise (I know that it would look clunky)?

[Mr. Widget]

If you replace the crossover with a N3133 or equivalent and use all of the appropriate drivers and horns, the only other issue would be the tuning of the cabinet... tune it to ~34Hz or thereabouts and you will have a system that sounds like an L300...

Realize that buying used parts on eBay, you will likely have some or all that are not up to spec. The best way to go is to buy blown drivers and have them reconed and diaphragmed by a good JBL service center.


Widget

[witoman]

Excellent advice. Thanks.

[witoman]

:rolleyes:


Lots easier to just drill a big hole in the back of the cabinet and put a small dog house over it. Heck, if I could get three H92 horns reasonably, I'd drill a hole in the back of my cabinets and just epoxy a PVC cap over it leaving room for the driver. Could even fit a piece of PVC pipe in the hole (~2" long x 6" (or whatever) dia) and make this removable for easy driver replacement.

I am too uncomfortable with my woodworking skills and my lack of the right drills, saws etc. to want to attempt to cut into these beautiful cabs. Maybe if the "out of the box" experiment works well sonically, I can consider having this cutout done in the back of the cab for the LE85 to stick out.

BTW, I have picked up three 2312 horns (the pro version of the H92 horn) on eBay in the past year for reasonable prices. Good luck on your project.

[Zilch]

The "Out of the box" approach will work experimentally (done it myself, actually,) BUT with the woofer so low in the L200 cabinet, you'll have lousy coherency.

Installing the UHF driver is no biggie using a stock hole saw of the correct size.

I'm with Todd with respect to the long horn. Bite the bullet and cut the driver clearance hole in the rear of the cab. If you're uneasy about doing that yourself, any local cabinetmaker or woodworker can do it for you. I'd be surprised if it cost more than $150 to have it done professionally.

The difference in depth of the driver/horn combination is ~3.25". I'd have to measure to determine how far the driver would stick out the back, but I'm betting a closed-cell foam gasket alone could make an adequate seal.

[I also like Todd's PVC cap idea.... :yes: ]

[SMKSoundPro]

The "Out of the box" approach will work experimentally (done it myself, actually,) BUT with the woofer so low in the L200 cabinet, you'll have lousy coherency.

The difference in depth of the driver/horn combination is ~3.25". I'd have to measure to determine how far the driver would stick out the back, but I'm betting a closed-cell foam gasket alone could make an adequate seal.

[I also like Todd's PVC cap idea.... :yes: ]

I am strongly considering this exact same approach, but using the 2441 drivers i have here on a 2309 horn and using the 2310 Hartfield lenses I have. Then, cut in the 2405 slot and using a threeway active crossover. I have no idea how this will sound. Any ideas?

Scott.

[Zilch]

I have no experience with 2441/2309. I'm using 2450J-SL on 2380 horns. My UHF is 2407H on the 1" PT-F95HF, primarily because I don't much like the slot. It's the "Keeper" crossover running the sytem, which is a derivative of N200B plus 3105:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=105370#post105370

Coherency was resolved by using 4507 LF for this prototype, with the woofer at the top.

[Chas]

The "Out of the box" approach will work experimentally (done it myself, actually,)]

That must be the understatement the year! :rotfl:

Happy New Year Zilchster!:D

[toddalin]

The "Out of the box" approach will work experimentally (done it myself, actually,) BUT with the woofer so low in the L200 cabinet, you'll have lousy coherency.

Installing the UHF driver is no biggie using a stock hole saw of the correct size.

I'm with Todd with respect to the long horn. Bite the bullet and cut the driver clearance hole in the rear of the cab. If you're uneasy about doing that yourself, any local cabinetmaker or woodworker can do it for you. I'd be surprised if it cost more than $150 to have it done professionally.

The difference in depth of the driver/horn combination is ~3.25". I'd have to measure to determine how far the driver would stick out the back, but I'm betting a closed-cell foam gasket alone could make an adequate seal.

[I also like Todd's PVC cap idea.... :yes: ]

JBL lists H91 at 7-3/4" (but 20 cm which is 7-7/8") and H92 at 10-3/4" (27.3 cm) so you need 3 inches. The driver sits right at the back (maybe 1/4" clearance) so considering the thickness of the wood, you need to add ~2" to the internal depth. An extra 1" would be nice as you would be able to remove the horn/driver as a single unit and unless the hole is big enough and/or deep enough, you may not get the driver on the horn if you first mount the horn. If the cap is removable, this is not a concern.

An LE85 is 5-3/4" dia, so you'd probably use an 8" dia cap (maybe you could use a 6" cap), you would probably get most of the needed two inches right there. (I could use a 6" diameter cap because I use LE175s that are 4-1/2" diameter.)

The way I would do it would to be to reach in through the woofer hole and encircle the driver with a sheet of stiff paper to trace an elipse, and find the center point on the inner-back wall.

I'd measure down to this point, then do the same on the back. Resting the cabinet on its face, the hole should be exactly at the right angle if the drill is held verticle (not that it really matters if the hole is bigger than the driver.) Mount the driver and find how best to position the cap, some epoxy and voila. You could even "pad" the hole to secure the driver and support its weight. If you need a small length of pipe to make it fit, it is probably best to have the hole is perpendicular to the back.

Thanks Zilch. ;)

[Zilch]

That must be the understatement the year! ;)

Thank you, Chas, and Happy New Year to you, as well.... :thmbsup: