JBL L55-How is that at all possible??? [Archive]

vernb

06-06-2007, 02:10 PM

Hi
I just got myself a pair of JBL L55 Lancers, almost like new. I expected them to sound awfull after reading that the x-over frequency between the tweeter and the LE14a was at 2000hz !!!!

In all the DIY threads and many other places, you can read that both 15" and 14" inch woofers should be cut off at 650-850hz and that JBL themselves say maximum 1000hz for these guys.

But the L55 speakers actually do not sound bad at all. I know many new speakers of $1000 that play worse and have basically no bass at all. These have real bass and actually sound good in the treble too. Midrange is of course their weak side, but only when you plays loud (they shout). I play them with Threshold SA/3 and FET Ten amplifiers and Marantz CD14.

Why did JBL make those LE14a go all the way to 2000hz anyway???

Verner

4313B

06-06-2007, 02:12 PM

Why did JBL make those LE14a go all the way to 2000hz anyway???Because they could. Those things were one of my first pairs of JBL's.

I know many new speakers of $1000 that play worse and have basically no bass at all.Yeah, tragic isn't it.

Zilch

06-06-2007, 02:19 PM

Why did JBL make those LE14a go all the way to 2000hz anyway???Because LE20-1 sounds nasty much below that:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=7671&page=2

Mated with LE175 instead, they crossed them lower....

vernb

06-06-2007, 02:35 PM

Because LE20-1 sounds nasty much below that:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=7671&page=2

Mated with LE175 instead, they crossed them lower....

Nice thread there. Are LE175 the cheapest JBL compression drivers? I have horns no drivers and little money for yet another DIY project. I am still going with the first project of mini everest.

Vern

Zilch

06-06-2007, 02:54 PM

Nice thread there. Are LE175 the cheapest JBL compression drivers?In vintage drivers, yes.

There's plenty of alternative contemporary offerings. I like 2416H-1 better than 2418H-1. 2426H, of course. Others, I haven't tried.

vernb

06-06-2007, 03:07 PM

In vintage drivers, yes.

There's plenty of alternative contemporary offerings. I like 2416H-1 better than 2418H-1. 2426H, of course. Others, I haven't tried.

thank you

Earl K

06-06-2007, 04:24 PM

Nice thread there.
- Are LE175 the cheapest JBL compression drivers?

In vintage drivers, yes.

- I have horns no drivers and little money for yet another DIY project.
- I am still going with the first project of mini everest.

- I really don't understand Zilchs' answer to you .
- I see le175 drivers ( with red wax seals intact ) disappearing into Japan almost weekly for large dollars ( usually for more than they cost new ).
- More times than not, they are sold with mashers attached, making the combo a DLH175 .
- Trying to buy a lightly used pair for reasonable money won't be easy ( see Zilches' alternatives for substitutes ) .

- FWIW, they more or less take a nose dive after about 12K / but up till then they have a very nice smooth texture to their sound ( I suppose this is why the Japanese value them so much ) .

< :) >

4313B

06-06-2007, 04:29 PM

I have horns no drivers and little money for yet another DIY project.Excellent!

That means you don't have to hack them up. :)

vernb

06-06-2007, 10:15 PM

Excellent!

That means you don't have to hack them up. :)

I wouldn't hack them up anyway. That would to me be sacrilige. But building another cabinet for the horn to be on top, means they stay original and I can keep playing around. I only need to bypass the filter in the L55 and disconnect the tweeter.

It is a very small cabinet though. I looked through your threads on other 14" woofers and they all need bigger cabinets. What is the optimal cabinet size for the old LE14a? I didn't see that in your old threads.
I have LE1400H in my other project, and they only need 60liter cabinets to go straight to 30hz.

Verner

vernb

06-07-2007, 01:26 AM

Excellent!

That means you don't have to hack them up. :)

I think I just found out: The LE14a is the LE14H. Is that right? So I really can see the parameters in your previously posted links.

johnaec

06-07-2007, 01:46 AM

The LE14a is the LE14H. Is that right?Nope! Though similar in size, the LE14H is a much newer model utilizing a completely different magnet structure, cone assembly, and suspension, and capable of more extended LF output.

I'm assuming your LE14's have the "yellowish" Lansaloy suspension, (that hardens over time)? If instead they have black foam surrounds, they've either had the surrounds replaced or have been reconed, both of which usually result in better performance than an LE14A with original parts, (in "used" condition), or they've actually been replaced with LE14H's, etc.

John

4313B

06-07-2007, 04:17 AM

I think I just found out: The LE14a is the LE14H. Is that right? So I really can see the parameters in your previously posted links.Both have used the same recone kit since ~ 1979. If the LE14A magnetic structure hasn't lost magnetic strength then one might be hard pressed to hear the different between a freshly reconed LE14A and freshly reconed LE14H. The LE14A will have higher distortion content which alot of people claim to prefer and the LE14H will handle a bit more power due to the larger "heat sink".

The old Lansaloy surround was outstanding for as long as it was physically capable of staying pliant. In the late 70's and early 80's JBL considered Lansaloy a manufacturing defect and would replace the Lansaloy surround with the foam surround for free. That gesture was finally terminated in the mid 80's since any remaining transducers with Lansaloy surrounds would also have degraded spiders requiring a complete recone.

vernb

06-07-2007, 06:04 AM

Both have used the same recone kit since ~ 1979. If the LE14A magnetic structure hasn't lost magnetic strength then one might be hard pressed to hear the different between a freshly reconed LE14A and freshly reconed LE14H. The LE14A will have higher distortion content which alot of people claim to prefer and the LE14H will handle a bit more power due to the larger "heat sink".

The old Lansaloy surround was outstanding for as long as it was physically capable of staying pliant. In the late 70's and early 80's JBL considered Lansaloy a manufacturing defect and would replace the Lansaloy surround with the foam surround for free. That gesture was finally terminated in the mid 80's since any remaining transducers with Lansaloy surrounds would also have degraded spiders requiring a complete recone.

my le14a still have the old lansaloy surround in full function??? So what is the optimum box size for le14a? in the l55 lancer volume is 58liter which is probablly just 50 taking the drivers, x-over, filling and port.

4313B

06-07-2007, 06:46 AM

I use LE14H's in 3.5 to 4.0 cu ft boxes tuned in the 28 to 32 Hz range.

I couldn't tell you what the optimum box size is for the LE14A with Lansaloy surround as I have no idea what the Vas is of that configuration. JBL used it in 1.6 to 5.0 cu ft boxes.

Mr. Widget

06-07-2007, 09:26 AM

my le14a still have the old lansaloy surround in full function???You should measure the free air Fs. It is likely to be quite high as the Lansaloy tends to get stiff with age. If the measured Fs is too high the Lansaloy can be treated with DOT-3 brake fluid to soften it and lower the Fs or the surround can be replaced.

I don't remember what the proper free air resonance (Fs) is for an LE14A, but I am sure it is available on this site with a bit of a search.

If you don't know how to measure Fs, do a google search... it is quite simple. All you need is a sweep tone and a VOM... the sweep tone generator can even be downloaded for free.

Widget

Robh3606

06-07-2007, 10:16 AM

FS is here in the Library
http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/reference/notes/tech1-3a/page09.jpg

Rob:)

PS 28hz

Zilch

06-07-2007, 11:52 AM

Brake fluid is a crapshoot, unless it's carefully controlled. One member I know actually measured, and the resulting Fs was 19 Hz. Then, of course, the evaporation progressively reduces compliance, so, unless you're monitoring the resonant frequency of the system, the performance is unknown. I doubt anybody's done the requisite studies; it's all anecdotal. Forget it, unless you're willing to track what's going on. :banghead:

The only reasonable approach to LE14A is refoam, in my view. Reconing is nearly as expensive as a new LE14H-3. So, you live with what you get, and that can be measured. Yes, the condition of the spider is variable, but that's reflected in the measurements as well.

Bass Box 6P suggests the optimum HiFi alignment of LE14A is ~2 cuft tuned to ~32 Hz, based upon the original parameters. It turns out, that's just about exactly the size of L55, but the box tuning is not optimum. I've retuned mine with a rear port 3" diameter x 6.25" long. The stock port could also be adjusted accordingly, most likely. I also use mine upside-down to move the woofer up higher.

Check my measurements and calculations here:

L55 interior is 16" x 21" x 10.375" = 3486 cuin/1728 = 2.0174 cuft.

I'm arguing that L55 is an excellent platform for LE14x. I presently have LE14H-3s in mine. Yes, the calculations come out different for H-3s, and I do have different duct lengths available, if I want to be precise. At at certain point, though, I just say "Screw it. Sounds fine...." :thmbsup:

For extended bass, I have a pair of Citation 7.4, which I also mate with various horns/drivers to make systems. They're larger (~3.5 cuft) and tuned lower, 29 Hz, but I measure them a bit higher than that. They presently have LE14H-1s in them. They also work as subs, as that was the intent of their design, though I have removed the original filters from them for full-range use. Several members have also built two-way systems around that volume and tuning with LE14As successfully, and I'm aware of at least one new project underway presently.

So, I'm saying, if you have LE14As, refoam them and build with them. They're so versatile, you almost can't lose. If the result warrants spending an additional $600, upgrade to new LE14H-3s later....

Mr. Widget

06-07-2007, 05:27 PM

Brake fluid is a crapshoot...
Yep... I used to maintain my fleet of LE15As this way. I found they were good for 6mos to a year before reapplication. It is a pain, but if carefully maintained it is the best way to keep the resale value at the maximum.... I eventually bought newer drivers, but somedays I do miss those vintage Alnico monsters.

The only reasonable approach to LE14A is refoam...
Well... yeah sorta kinda... refoams are actually a crap shoot too. You can't just plop a new foam surround and assume your Fs will be correct. Sometimes they run high and others they run low...

Then there is always the issue of the spider's condition. A worn out spider will not be salvageable by either refoam or brake fluid. Some people will replace the spider if the proper recone kit is no longer available, but if performance is the goal, the only really good solution is the complete recone when available.

Widget

vernb

06-07-2007, 05:34 PM

I have all the answers I needed know. Thank you all. Since I have the L55 speakers with LE14a and I have my LE1400H that require almost exactly the same size cabinet, it is enough to get me going. I only have one Citation 7.4 sub with the LE14H-1 so far, so I won't go that direction so far. My H3100 horns with 276ND are just waiting for my crossover (from S2600) to be ready next week. I am a slow solderer :blink:

Vern

vernb

06-07-2007, 05:40 PM

Actually I have the Thiele Small data on the LE1400H lying around somewhere. Should I post it out here somewhere??? I think only 100 pairs of these here in Denmark. I have one new in original box and one previously used in a car subwoofer by the previous owner with no success.
Vern

Maron Horonzakz

06-08-2007, 07:08 AM

How can you test if the spider needs replacing?

4313B

06-08-2007, 09:05 AM

You just hook the transducer in question up to your Klippel tester.

jackgiff

06-08-2007, 05:16 PM

I bought a pair of Lancer 55's on E-Bay while looking for just a pair of LE14A's. I asked the seller to ship just the woofers, but he sent the whole kit and kaboodle. Am I glad he did. When I unpacked them, I lightly pushed on the cones, and the Lansaloy was as hard as a rock. I thought maybe the voice coils were frozen. I took them home and tried the ohmeter on the connections, and heard the old familiar "Spthzz", so hooked them up to the Fisher Amp. WOW. For rock hard surrounds, the LE14's are dynamite.

After listening to tunes for an hour or so, I can only think of one thing.

4414's.

The LE14's obviously need either brake fluid or new surrounds. But if they can make bass like they do, I can't wait to get them closer to factory spec. If there was some give in the surrounds, these things would be awesome. I am going to try to complete the 4412 formula except using the LE-14A's in the Lancer 55 cabinet with it's extra room, and bigger woofer. Could be a dynamite combo. I just sold my Rosewood 4412's to a buyer in Arizona, and remember how nice they sounded. If the Lancer 55's can sound so good with only an added tweeter, how good can they sound with the midrange and tweet from the 4412? And I just recently sold my LE5's. Hate when that happens. But there are more of them out there.

Stay tuned.

Jack Gifford :D

4313B

06-08-2007, 05:37 PM

If the Lancer 55's can sound so good with only an added tweeter, how good can they sound with the midrange and tweet from the 4412?They sounded pretty nice. I did a few of them back in the early to mid 80's.

Thom

06-08-2007, 05:44 PM

After doing this to a surround or two, and taking no responsibility for your results, I've found painting both sides liberally but carefully using a 10 cent acid brush and cleaning it off as good as I can the next day works best. (what do you bet every single other person here has had exactly opposite results) and if it has a heavy cone (LE14) if it has taken a set forward or backward, store it so gravity works to put the cone back where you want it that night. Do not paint it heavy and leave it on or it will continue working after you have achieved the results you are looking for. I have more experience with how it feels and how the cone movement feels than with how it plays. Brake fluid is hygroscopic. I don't know if you could add water and get more moisture and less solvent back in or not. This can show what appeared to be very tiny cracks to be more meaningful cracks.

The LE14A, 175DLH (seen frequently on ebay) sounded pretty good. We had it playing next to D130/ horn systems and L100's and it was quit a different sound. Whole different school of thought than other JBL of the day. I don't want to say JBL does AR but it is extremely inefficient for JBL in early 70's but it sounds good. You sure could do a lot worse in a small room or if you just don't play loud music. I would think you could build a network that would extend the top end (haven't tried it just musing) because that 175 has to be really padded to play with the LE14.

I claim no expertise, especially to some who have posted in this thread so if you disagree I won't argue and if my 2 cents is of any use than I'm glad.

jackgiff

06-08-2007, 06:05 PM

They sounded pretty nice. I did a few of them back in the early to mid 80's.

Thanks for the heads up, Giskard. I really didn't want the cabinets, or their extra freight costs, but am very thankful now. It seems like someone at JBL knew his stuff. And the cabinets are quite nice looking. What will they look like in Rosewood?

Are there any differences as far as crossover frequencies, etc, you can recommend? If it will save me some steps. it would really be appreciated. The sound, as I imagine it, will be absolutely great. I used to be an Altec Lansing guy, but am fast becoming a JBL guy. Maybe there is hope for me.

Jack Gifford :D

4313B

06-08-2007, 06:21 PM

Are there any differences as far as crossover frequencies, etc, you can recommend?Not now. That was too many years and too many systems ago.

MJC

06-08-2007, 06:48 PM

Because they could. Those things were one of my first pairs of JBL's.
Yeah, tragic isn't it.
They were my first set of JBL's, and I really liked them. Until I heard the L212s.
Then when I wanted to step into HT I bought a third from Hal Cox, but instead of a LE14-A, and a LE20-1 it had a LE14-C. The coax speaker worked great for a center.
I went with an all L55 front end because I couldn't find any L212s, at the time, to add to the pair I had. So I used the L212s for the surrounds, but the tonal match was really bad.
I've thought of making the L55s into subs, by disconnecting the LE20-1, but how many subs does one person need, I already have five.

4313B

06-08-2007, 07:00 PM

It was a nice looking box with a bunch of uses over many years.

The 121A/121H will work in it for sub duty.

jackgiff

06-08-2007, 08:27 PM

Not now. That was too many years and too many systems ago.

Guess that's why it's called DIY. If Giskard did it for me, it wouldn't be the same. Thanks for letting me know there are good things out there ahead of me. It will be fun, and eventually it will sound great. And if I make the same mistakes you made, I may learn the same lessons. Can't wait.

Thanks, Jack Gifford ;)

Don C

06-08-2007, 09:03 PM

Have a look at the tech sheet for the 240Ti.
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=10661

jackgiff

06-08-2007, 09:17 PM

Have a look at the tech sheet for the 240Ti.
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=10661

Almost too easy. Thanks, Don. Now it may become DIBD. (Do it By Don)

It will still be fun!!!!!

Jack Gifford :banana:

jackgiff

06-09-2007, 05:22 PM

vernb

06-10-2007, 02:22 PM

Did a measure today of the Frequency Response of the pair of L55's I just bought on E-Bay. They sound so darn nice, but looking at the FR's you wonder how they can sound so good. Guess that is why vernb started this thread.

The surrounds on this pair are stiff as boards. The dip in the bass response is pretty obvious in the FR's of these speakers. They try to get it going, but just sag until the Frequency gets high enough to get it done. I am going to order surround kits from Rick Cobb tonight. Can't wait to see how good they sound when they can move.

Jack Gifford :D
You are so right. Tried pushing mine and they are stiff as I don't know what. But then I just thought that the 14" drivers generally were stiff. My LE1400H and LE14H-1 do not move a lot either, and they have brand new foam edges. I think I will keep mine as they are, and just try and put in my LE1400H in the L55 speakers, when ever I need deeper bass. Those LE14a look so nice with the white lansaloy surround.
Vern

vernb

06-10-2007, 02:26 PM

Hey. I just noticed that your tweeters do not at all look like mine in the L55. How do we find out which are the originals? I will try to do a close up = I'll show you mine if you show yours ;)
Vern

vernb

06-10-2007, 02:38 PM

http://hificlassic.dk/billeder/gallerier/smalll55tw.jpg

MJC

06-10-2007, 02:43 PM

Hey. I just noticed that your tweeters do not at all look like mine in the L55. How do we find out which are the originals? I will try to do a close up = I'll show you mine if you show yours ;)
Vern
I was about to mention the same thing, they don't look like le20-1.
As far as the surrounds being stiff, you can always soften them with brake fluid. I did my pair about 7 years ago and they still seem fairly soft.
The tweeters in vernb's pic are le20-1. The outer ring is a face piece and peels off, to expose the flathead screws.

jackgiff

06-10-2007, 04:20 PM

Hey. I just noticed that your tweeters do not at all look like mine in the L55. How do we find out which are the originals? I will try to do a close up = I'll show you mine if you show yours ;)
Vern

Hi Vern,

I have one S99 which was bought a couple weeks ago, which has the same tweeter as you show. The pair of L55's are different for sure, but I haven't been able to pry the unknown tweets out, and don't want to break anything until the transformation to 4414's is ready to come about. Just bought a pair of 104H's and 035Ti's today, so we might be close. I plan to listen to my speakers, so I am going to refoam them, no matter what it does to the value of them. I am not a collector, and have no interest in making my kids rich. When I am gone, I hope they say "Sure wish dad would have kept these original."

By the way, I swapped the LE14 out of the S99 with one of the L55's, and the improvement in bass was pretty remarkable, And even the good one is very stiff. Movement can be good.

Jack Gifford :)

MJC

06-11-2007, 02:04 PM

Hi Vern,

I have one S99 which was bought a couple weeks ago, which has the same tweeter as you show. The pair of L55's are different for sure, but I haven't been able to pry the unknown tweets out,
Jack Gifford :)
If you're meaning the tweeters in the L55s, they are, as I said before, le20-1. And they can't be pryed out. You have to remove the outer metal skin, with a sharp knife, a sheetrock knife should work. Then you will see the screws holding the tweeters in place.

jackgiff

06-11-2007, 03:43 PM

If you're meaning the tweeters in the L55s, they are, as I said before, le20-1. And they can't be pryed out. You have to remove the outer metal skin, with a sharp knife, a sheetrock knife should work. Then you will see the screws holding the tweeters in place.

You are right on the procedure for removing an LE20-1. The LE-20-1 is shown in vernb's post No. 36. It has a cover over the screws which must to pried out first. Notice the difference in the tweeter in my L55's on post No. 38. It isn't at all like an LE20-1, and has six screws through it's plastic retaining ring. Removing the three outer screws probably loosens the cover ring from the baffle, but it is apparently glued on. I will not attempt to pry it off, until I am ready to redo the baffle for the midrange and tweet from a pair of 4412's are here and ready to install.

Does anyone know what kind of tweet I have in post No. 38? It sounds much better than it measures, whatever it is.

EDIT: I was out listening to tunes and drinking scotch, when it occured to me that both tweets were different. The retaining ring was the same, but the cover over the cone and dust cap was different. I finally removed all three outer screws, and the tweets fell into my hand. The one in the picture in post No 38 is a Pyle Driver. No part number. The other one is a Phillips, maybe part no. 0163 T4. Both tweeets aquit themselves very well. Perhaps that is why the BIN was only $150 for the pair of L55's. I am grateful.

Thanks, Jack Gifford :D

vernb

06-12-2007, 01:21 PM

I will not attempt to pry it off, until I am ready to redo the baffle for the midrange and tweet from a pair of 4412's are here and ready to install.

Thanks, Jack Gifford :D

If you do like zilch and put the reflexport at the back of the speakers, then you don't have to make a new baffle. Just cut the old reflex hole for the new midrange driver and fit the new tweeters where the old ones were.

I had just sold my 120ti speakers, but when putting them in the car I saw that the foam surrounds had gone on the woofers. Damn. Now I dont know if I should sell them as is, or keep them and put my extra pair of 14" speakers in them. I hear the 044TI alone sells quite expensively.
Vern

vernb

06-14-2007, 02:19 PM

I'm arguing that L55 is an excellent platform for LE14x. I presently have LE14H-3s in mine. Yes, the calculations come out different for H-3s, and I do have different duct lengths available, if I want to be precise. At at certain point, though, I just say "Screw it. Sounds fine...." :thmbsup:

For extended bass, I have a pair of Citation 7.4, which I also mate with various horns/drivers to make systems. They're larger (~3.5 cuft) and tuned lower, 29 Hz, but I measure them a bit higher than that. They presently have LE14H-1s in them. They also work as subs, as that was the intent of their design, though I have removed the original filters from them for full-range use....

1) I tried putting my LE1400H in the L55. I am impressed. Very tight bass and definately much deeper than LE14a with stiff lansaloy, but definately not 30hz like my B&W 808.
2) I did not know that there were filters in Citation 7.4 subs??? I thought in was meant for active filter and amp?

Vern

Zilch

06-14-2007, 04:00 PM

1) The box is appropriate size for HiFi tuning, not extended bass, with LE14s

2) A stealth step compensation filter, hidden behind the fiberglass on the rear panel:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=55722&#post55722

Follow the driver leads to find it....

jackgiff

06-15-2007, 09:28 PM

Went to the company today to pick up my foam surrounds from Rick Cobb, and came home and installed one. Had the speaker all stripped and ready, and it is hot in my garage workshop, so didn't take too long. And the foam is on the outside, since the LansAloy was on the outside. Don't tell me the foam guy screwed up.

Now you can now see the cone move. Hard to tell really how much better it is, but the effects are sure noticable. I noticed a rattle on one of the walls. Turns out to be a 28 inch round logo from the Central Alabama Artifacts Society which hangs above the door. I have had this sign for many years since my company sponsored their treasure hunt for several years. After the hunt, the club would take me relic hunting for two days every year. Couldn't beat a deal like that.

Bet my RTA will see a difference. When the second one is done, I will measure both of them, and then post the results. Then the next post about them will be when they begin to become 4414's. One pic shows the 104H2's and 035Ti's that are ready to become part of the package.

Jack Gifford

Thom

06-16-2007, 01:35 PM

jackgiff

06-23-2007, 03:18 PM

Compare the FR's of the refoamed LE14A's with the same speakers shown in post 33 of this thread after being refoamed by myself using Rick Cobbs kits. The mid and hi range difference is due to having added JBL horns and BMS drivers to the equation, in preparation for loading these parts into Altec Santana cabinets.

Earl K

06-23-2007, 03:31 PM

jackgiff

06-23-2007, 04:15 PM

- Jack, those are pretty nice looking curves . How are they sounding ?
( I'm guessing you are going to start a run on empty Santana cabinets ;) )

- I'm curious, with the foam applied to the front side of these old le14s ( as was the original Lansaloy ), is the spider sitting flat ( when viewed horizontal, with the woofer on a table ) ?

:)

Hi Earl,

They sound GOOOD.

I didn't check the lay of the spiders before refoaming the first two. To check them now, would require removing them from the cabinets, and that is not something I want to do until I get baffles cut for the Santana's. I have another one refoamed and another LE14A to arrive within the week to finish my second pair. The one that has been refoamed seems to be almost flat, with perhaps a bit of "sink" in the middle when the speaker is laying on the magnet. When laying on the face, it seems to be virtually flat. When the fourth one gets here, I will check it before refoaming, and see if it is different than the refoamed one.

Rick's kits are so easy, if it would be best to do the refoam on the back, it would not be unreasonable to redo them. But they sound so darn good, that it might take an act of Congress to get me to do that.

By the way, the FR's as shown are with the LE14A's still in the L55 cabinets, not the Santana's. They might even sound better when they have a little more breathing room.

Earl K

06-23-2007, 04:30 PM

By the way, the FR's as shown are with the LE14A's still in the L55 cabinets, not the Santana's. They might even sound better when they have a little more breathing room.

- Thanks for the quick reply. I did eventually understand that I was looking at the L55 FR plot ( plus you also mentioned , that this was all in prep for a move over to the Santana cabinets ).
- So, I'm thinking the Santanas are just the ticket for those of us with stashes of le14(s) who want to recycle usable cabinets .

- Did you use Kens' suggestion ( edgewound ) to use acetone to get rid of the old Lansaloy ? ( I've given up on keeping my old Lansaloy type le14s servicable / they need new surrounds ) / hence my questions .

:)

jackgiff

06-23-2007, 06:02 PM

Earl, the first two peeled off with no real problems. The cones lost a few patches of the white aquaplas coating around the edge, but it was relatively easy to peel the Lansaloy from the cones. The third one, which was done yesterday, may have been treated with brake fluid. The Lansaloy was softer than the first pair, and was a bitch to remove from the cone. Finally after much frustration, and scraping with an Exacto knife, I tried my Dremel tool with the wire brush. Being very careful, it just ripped the old Lansaloy from the cones. You need to be very careful, and just brush the edge of the cone, but it sure is easier than all that scraping. And since the foam mounts on the front, it covered all the spots that were lost to the peeling or wire brushing. And the Rick Cobb furnished CD of 30Hz tones moved the cone out to within about a tenth of an inch or so of the surround foam, which was first glued to the frame. The frame has about 1/8th inch of surface for gluing, so I glued it first. Then with the 30Hz tone, it was glued to the cone. Backwards from what Bo recommends, but it worked for me.

I sensed that mounting the foam to the back of the cone was not the correct way, since the 30 Hz tone didn't move the cone to meet the foam surround. It is supposed to center the voice coil in the magnetic field, and mounting the foam to the back would seem to pull the cone even farther from where it was operating with the 30Hz tone. Maybe I am wrong, but the results are sure nice. I love what has happened to my LE14's since refoaming them.