JBL Japan Purchases

[4313B]

Giskard,

Can you point me in the right direction for wanting to purchase JBL Japan products. If a person wanted to buy a pair of 4348's how would one do it? I contacted them direct and they said the sale of JBL Japan arrays are meant for their market place only. If a US citizen wanted a pair of Everest II's does this mean that they would not sell and ship them? I find this odd since they offer the gear for sale on their website, retail.

ThanxMy suggestion would be to purchase from JBL Dealers as opposed to any of the Harman websites. I could be mistaken but my perception is that Harman likes try to protect various markets.

Some may have noticed over the past few years that, in addition to the MSRP (Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price) and the price at which a Dealer is willing to sell any given product, we now have the price which Harman is willing to sell any given product from their websites. It does not appear that Harman Japan discounts product on their websites like Harman America does. My perception is that Harman Japan has an interest in keeping its Dealer Network strong. I could be mistaken but I think Harman America has a built-in 10% or 15% discount off MSRP. I do not believe that this discounting extends to top shelf products. I believe discounts on those products are at the discretion of those particular Dealers.

The Everest II should be available from any U.S. Synthesis Dealer.

[MJC]

The Everest II should be available from any U.S. Synthesis Dealer.
I was thinking about that the other day, while looking on the JBL site. In the Project Everest section I didn't see how they were available, I just assumed thru Synthesis Dealers.

[sourceoneaudio]

I contacted JBL USA and the response was, you have to import for they (4348's) are not ava. in the US market place. So back to JBL Japan awaiting a response to see what direction one needs to take.




Jeff
J/S-S1A :D

[merlin]

Jeff,

if you want to import from Japan, I'd suggest finding a reputable shipper via Google that deals with removals etc from Japan to the US via sea.

Then check out companies like Audio Union, as they will often have ex demo stock of things like the 4248, at good prices. Stores will often discount between 15% and 20% but in order to benefit, you really need to be on the ground, and importantly, to have someone with you fluent in the native tongue. I'd still make the trip over there. You get your speakers, a great holiday, and can probably pay for the trip by importing some other little items like cartridges and records.

Good luck at whatever you do - the whole modern 43XX series is remarkably good in my experience.

[4313B]

I contacted JBL USA and the response was, you have to import for they (4348's) are not ava. in the US market place. So back to JBL Japan awaiting a response to see what direction one needs to take.I guess I should have bought a few pairs and loaded them up in the trunk. :dont-know

[sourceoneaudio]

Thanx, for the tips Merlin. I'm still talking with JBL Japan, and awaiting a response. I have thought of having someone purchase for me, and handle the outbound shipping from over there. This way the purchase is made in their market place retail, and then we just leave the country with the speakers.
I have also expressed this is a future purchase that I'm looking at sometime around November, so I have plenty of time to get it figured out.

Giskard,
Where is that pic from? Over there, or someone here buy them, and you met them at the dock just to gander?? :p

Jeff
J/S-S1A :blink:

[4313B]

They were on a pallet in Northridge. They were rolling off the assembly line. I also have a photo of a bare box awaiting component loading.

[sourceoneaudio]

There are a couple things that really intrigue me about this array, and I find most interesting. First, is having design characteristics that follow the K2-S9800.

Quote from the JBL Japan site:

" “4343” the empty “4344”, and now to “4348” - -. Low the JBL4 way studio monitor which tremendous support of the audiophile the [a] is stuffed, debuts with new model number as the reference machine which masters distortion factor [waidorenji] playback. While following the box shape proportion of the blue baffle, concentration the technology which it cultivates anew with system development of project K2 S9800. Including SACD and DVD-Audio, performance of the segregation which candidly describes the potential of new generation digital audio is announced. "

Second, is the 10" woofer used in this array. It incorporates Differential Drive Technology, which we all know is the same technology used in the WGTI series woofers for the Car Audio industry. Which some of us including me have used in their HT Subwoofer applications. This is most interesting that they use this technology on a Midbass Driver. The crossover point for this driver is 300hz, so what would deem it necessary to use this type of driver in this location? The cone excursion at this given frequency is not that great, so I would think control would not be an issue. But what a great driver to place in this position.

Quote form JBL Japan site:
Differential drive system 25cm mid- >.bus <2251J-1>
"The 25cm mid- bus which filled the technology of JBL professional unit to the one for concave resister which becomes main point of 4 way constitution, <2251J-1> it loads. It is low, it pursues straightening power handling, in the magnetic circuit the sandwich it does large aperture [neojiyumu] [ringumagunetsuto] with two pole pieces in addition to adopting the fiber composite cone, NDDTM which is made [deyuarugiyatsupu] [deyuaruboisukoiru] structure ([neojiyumu] differential drive) it adopts system."

The material used in the HF horn in the 4348 is Aluminum, and the material used in the UHF driver is Titanium, so this is a big difference in cost from the K2-S9800, which uses [beririyumu]/[neojiyumu] in both drivers.

I do think this would be quite the speaker to listen to and own. Hopefully I'll get to do both.

Jeff
J/S-S1A :D

[4313B]

I started another thread on the 10-inch, the 2251 since Zilch was asking about them. I asked Zilch to post photos of his. It seems he owns four of them for some reason.

[sourceoneaudio]

They were on a pallet in Northridge. They were rolling off the assembly line. I also have a photo of a bare box awaiting component loading.

Questions for you:
If they were coming off the line here why can't we buy them here? :(

Did you get to listen to a pair, if so what were your impressions?

Second can you post that other pic please. ??

Jeff
J/S-S1A :D

[4313B]

Questions for you:
If they were coming off the line here why can't we buy them here? :(

I asked about that a few years ago and the answer then was that they were intended for the Japanese Market. One could just build their own I suppose. I suspect they come off the line here so they can qualify for that good old Made In U.S.A. stamp.

Did you get to listen to a pair, if so what were your impressions?

No, I didn't.

Second can you post that other pic please. ??

Yes. Tonight.

Jeff
J/S-S1A :D.

[sourceoneaudio]

That is sad. Seems like a lot of BOAT TIME. I wonder if one purchased them over there and the seller stopped shipment to Japan, and then could forward ship them to a U.S. address? :hmm: That way the money goes into their economy still, and saves all the BOAT TIME and shipping/duty fees. ??? :hmm:


Jeff
J/S-S1A :D

[timc]

Hi.

If you find a way to get theese please let me know. Im very interested in the 4328 myself.

Best regards Tim

[sourceoneaudio]

timc,
Keep an eye on this thread, I will update as I progress. What model were you looking at? There is no 4328, there is a 4428, or were you looking the same direction I'm looking 4348? Type O'?


Jeff
J/S-S1A :D

[Zilch]

Last year, Don alluded to what I perceived as a potential realignment of availability of these products worldwide.

I'm not an insider, nor do I have any inside connections regarding such matters.

I don't read between the lines very well, so I may be considerably off base on this.

Perhaps he can give us an update? :dont-know

[2251J pics tonight....]

[4313B]

Last year, Don alluded to what I perceived as a potential realignment of availability of these products worldwide.

I'm not an insider, nor do I have any inside connections regarding such matters.

I don't read between the lines very well, so I may be considerably off base on this.

Perhaps he can give us an update? :dont-know

[2251J pics tonight....]Well I'd sure be happy to hear about it. Here is what I've been told as of yesterday - JBL Pro product, including components, can be ordered from JBL Pro Dealers (as always) and JBL Consumer product, including components, can be ordered from JBL Consumer Dealers. Some components, such as the 1500AL or 2242H are Pro drivers but can be sourced by JBL Consumer. Certain drivers highlighted on the Harman Japan website are available over the counter in the spirit of DIY. Some say Project May might help stimulate that market.

[vernb]

. Some say Project May might help stimulate that market.

Is project May actually still going? not much activity to follow on the web.
Vern

[4313B]

Is project May actually still going? not much activity to follow on the web.
VernThat's because John W didn't do it. It probably would have been done three months after proposal. In hindsight we would have just had JBL drop kick everything to his address. Instead we shipped stuff everywhere and broke a bunch of it. Some people lost interest and wanted to spend what little free time they had working on their own projects instead. Some people moved. Some people had personal tragedies. Some people had job conflicts. If we all had the same zip code it would make a world of difference.

[Don McRitchie]

Last year, Don alluded to what I perceived as a potential realignment of availability of these products worldwide...

Perhaps he can give us an update? :don't-know


I'm not sure if I recollect exactly what comments of mine you were referring to, but I can offer the following. JBL Consumer has been changing how it addresses foreign markets for a number of years. According to Paul Bente, the head of JBL Consumer, the intent is to develop one product line to address both the international and consumer markets to the extent possible and centralize all product development at Northridge. However, it is likely that Harman Japan will always be an exception to this, with products that are solely developed for that market.

To elaborate, at the beginning of this decade there were three separate product development efforts under the JBL brand. Northridge was responsible for the North American market and high end export products. There was a separate design and manufacturing capability in France and Denmark for a European product line (e.g. Tik series) and Harman Japan (which was then a separate company) undertook their own development and manufacture of JBL branded products under license to Harman International.

Currently, the European operation has been completely consolidated into Northridge. The best example of this consolidation has been the Project Array series. This was actually started as a replacement for the Tik series and continues to be marketed for this purpose in Europe. However, it is also marketed in North America as a high end home theater line and in Japan as a more traditional hi-fi stereo line. Harman Japan has subsequently been re-acquired by Harman International and virtually all of the mid to high end product development is undertaken in Northridge. As a final example, Everest development and marketing was undertaken from the very start as being a worldwide product and product was sold into all markets the very first year. This was unprecedented for a JBL statement system.

As I previously indicated, it is unlikely that the Japanese product line will ever be fully homogenized into an all encompassing international JBL brand. The biggest unique offering in that market is the monitor series (4428, 4338, 4348 etc) and it will likely remain so. This is because market demand has never developed in the rest of the world to anywhere near the extent that it has in Asia. This is a phenomenon that has decades of history behind it. The original series of 4300 monitors (4333, 4340, 4350) from the mid 70's sold far higher numbers into Japanese homes than were ever installed in professional studios. Since then, the allure of the JBL monitor series has little diminished in Asia, while such consumer demand has never been established in any other part of the world.

[sourceoneaudio]

Giskard,
Where's them pics of them being worked on/empty?

Jeff
J/S-S1A :D

[hjames]

As I previously indicated, it is unlikely that the Japanese product line will ever be fully homogenized into an all encompassing international JBL brand. The biggest unique offering in that market is the monitor series (4428, 4338, 4348 etc) and it will likely remain so. This is because market demand has never developed in the rest of the world to anywhere near the extent that it has in Asia. This is a phenomenon that has decades of history behind it. The original series of 4300 monitors (4333, 4340, 4350) from the mid 70's sold far higher numbers into Japanese homes than were ever installed in professional studios. Since then, the allure of the JBL monitor series has little diminished in Asia, while such consumer demand has never been established in any other part of the world.

My only thought would be - if these Monitors are built in the US, I wish there was a way for US audiophiles to obtain a set of these modern Monitors without the trip-to-Japan-and-back and the associated gray-market that seems to be required for such a purchase.

[sourceoneaudio]

My only thought would be - if these Monitors are built in the US, I wish there was a way for US audiophiles to obtain a set of these modern Monitors without the trip-to-Japan-and-back and the associated gray-market that seems to be required for such a purchase.


I agree big time. Like I stated above I wonder if one could still purchase over there, keep the funds in their economy, but stop the shipment from here to Japan, and drop ship to your front door. Then you/we save tons on shipping and duty fees. Gray market issues don't really apply to this transaction because they are seeing a second dealer, no behind close door sales between stores/non dealers.

Jeff
J/S-S1A :D

[4313B]

My only thought would be - if these Monitors are built in the US, I wish there was a way for US audiophiles to obtain a set of these modern Monitors without the trip-to-Japan-and-back and the associated gray-market that seems to be required for such a purchase.One would think. I didn't pursue it too much after hitting the initial brick wall since the inquiry was informational as opposed to "I want a pair and here's the money so how do we make it happen."

[4313B]

Giskard,
Where's them pics of them being worked on/empty?

Jeff
J/S-S1A :D
4348 enclosure.

[Don McRitchie]

My only thought would be - if these Monitors are built in the US, I wish there was a way for US audiophiles to obtain a set of these modern Monitors without the trip-to-Japan-and-back and the associated gray-market that seems to be required for such a purchase.

The problem will always be low demand. I can't imagine that there are many people who would be interested in these products domestically that are not already part of this forum. While a few have spoken on this forum expressing interest, I don't see enough demand to support sales numbers that would ever exceed single digits on an annual basis.

There seems to be an impression that there are no significant costs to selling a small number of systems domestically since the systems are made here anyway. This is just not the case. Setting up a distribution channel, modifying inventory, accounting and parts supply systems for warranty work all costs money. Amortizing these costs over a handful of sales annually would likely price the systems so high as to destroy what little demand may exist.

Don

[hjames]

The problem will always be low demand. There seems to be an impression that there are no significant costs to selling a small number of systems domestically since the the systems are made here anyway. This is just not the case. Setting up a distribution channel, modifying inventory, accounting and parts supply systems all costs money. Amortizing these costs over a handful of sales annually would likely price the systems so high as to destroy what little demand may exist.

Don

I had just assumed such sales could be done through a low volume channel like Harman Direct - but I guess not. Thanks for the taking the time to explain all of this!

[4313B]

Well I won't say anything more about it. Don is absolutely right from a business perspective.

[Zilch]

I had just assumed such sales could be done through a low volume channel like Harman Direct - but I guess not.I don't consider Harman Direct as low volume. The appropriate channel might be Synthesis, instead, since these are high-ticket items, and that distribution is in place.

[Somewhat.... ;) ]

[rww1951]

Check out this web page and select "WHERE TO BUY", what's up?

[rww1951]

Might help if I added the address http://www.jbl.com/home/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=000000000000004348&CheckProduct=Y

[invstbiker]

www.JBL43.com (http://www.JBL43.com)

Good Luck

[merlin]

Guys,

spend a weekend in Shinjuku and Akihabara. Drink Suntory Malt and visit Bar Track. Take in the culture. Stock up on Blue note vinyl and rare SACD's, then fly back with a nice pair of JBL monitors as mementos of your trip.

Sure beats shopping on the friggin internet.

[Don McRitchie]

I certainly agree with that.

[4313B]

Nice photo Don! :)

[sourceoneaudio]

Yes, that is quite the photo DON.


I feel the wood coming on. :p


Jeff
J/S-S1A :D

[Mr. Widget]

Nice photo Don! :)It is kinda like some sci-fi movie where this or that change occurred and JBL and two channel audio had actually remained in the market place... however we live in a world where if the internet didn't exist there would be virtually no 2-channel equipment available and JBL is only something you use to play your iPod through on the night stand.:(


Widget

[sourceoneaudio]

I think the pads on the floor in front are used for praying to Mr. JBL . :blink:




Jeff
J/S-S1A :p

[merlin]

It is kinda like some sci-fi movie where this or that change occurred and JBL and two channel audio had actually remained in the market place...Widget

Nothing changed in Japan Widget. The Japanese culture seems to respect and treasure traditional values whilst embracing the future. And I'd take the 4338/4348 over ANY high end audiobling "monitor" to come out of Provo in the past decade.

[richluvsound]

fancy waking up to that every morning :D
How could i have a bad day !
Rich

[timc]

timc,
Keep an eye on this thread, I will update as I progress. What model were you looking at? There is no 4328, there is a 4428, or were you looking the same direction I'm looking 4348? Type O'?


Jeff
J/S-S1A :D


Hehe...Yes i meant the 4428.....:)

[caladois]

I certainly agree with that.


I wish we had such a shop in Europe

[MJC]

Check out this web page and select "WHERE TO BUY", what's up?
That seems to be typical of any JBL product on their web page.
I've clicked on the "where to buy" for various product lines and if any dealer, B&M or internet, sell ANY JBL lines you will be directed to those dealers even if they don't sell the particular line you were inquiring about.
btw, what is the price of the 4348?

[Shane Shuster]

btw, what is the price of the 4348?

Most of the internet sites have them at about 800,000 yen (6,600USD) each.
Used pairs seem to be around 1,000,000 yen. I don't live in Japan so I don't know how far, if at all, you can haggle down prices.

I have imported small things from Japan like cds and games. I would be scared to see the shipping cost on something big like speakers.

[merlin]

I would be scared to see the shipping cost on something big like speakers.


If you are prepared to ship by sea an don't mind a wait, you should find it possible to import for less than $3 per kilo. So a pair would cost about $600 shipping. Not too bad. For what it's worth, I think the 4338 is a better all round speaker. Having heard the two at length, the smaller model has a cohesiveness that eludes the 4348. The 4428 is little more than an excercise in badge engineering.

[Shane Shuster]

If you are prepared to ship by sea an don't mind a wait, you should find it possible to import for less than $3 per kilo. So a pair would cost about $600 shipping.

Wow, that sounds much lower than I thought it would be. I've paid 1/2 that before just to ship within the USA by truck. You live in the UK? Is it possible shipping is cheaper there. ( i.e some parts of the US are a long way from a port.) For some reason I thought it would be more like $1000+.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Nice place for a vacation.:)

The thing is what do you do with your wife (or tell her) when you line up a day tour of those stores?

Ian

[Zilch]

The thing is what do you do with your wife (or tell her) when you line up a day tour of those stores?"Shopping" would clearly not be a preferred option. :scold:

I don't imagine a day spa would be cheap, either, tho. :no:

O.K., the laundromat, then.... :p

[merlin]

Nice place for a vacation.:)

The thing is what do you do with your wife (or tell her) when you line up a day tour of those stores?

Ian

Take your wife to Japan? That's like taking sand to the beach.

[Titanium Dome]

Take your wife to Japan? That's like taking sand to the beach.

Brilliant reparté.

Besides excellent audio and video gear, there are many other excellent things in Japan.

[MJC]

Brilliant reparté.

Besides excellent audio and video gear, there are many other excellent things in Japan.
That is what my son tells me, he was stationed there for 3 years.

[Mr. Widget]

Brilliant reparté.

My wife doesn't concur. :blink:


Widget

[jim campbell]

Brilliant reparté.

Besides excellent audio and video gear, there are many other excellent things in Japan.yeah,like a cup of coffee for 8 bucks US.i dont think that its realistic to figure on japan as a source of jb monitors for the american market.it will only happen when and if harman decides the us market is profitable or maybe thru some back door employee purchase option.its the same corporate mindset that allowed harley davidson to flounder until willie davidson bought it back and turned it into the success it is today

[scott fitlin]

yeah,like a cup of coffee for 8 bucks US.i dont think that its realistic to figure on japan as a source of jb monitors for the american market.it will only happen when and if harman decides the us market is profitable or maybe thru some back door employee purchase option.its the same corporate mindset that allowed harley davidson to flounder until willie davidson bought it back and turned it into the success it is todayAnd, Harley DID make a HUGE comeback starting in the early 90,s.

If JBL put a speaker in OUR stores that IS that good, people will take notice, and with a little effort, they can be sold in numbers!

GREAT POINT Jim!

[Titanium Dome]

yeah,like a cup of coffee for 8 bucks US.i dont think that its realistic to figure on japan as a source of jb monitors for the american market.it will only happen when and if harman decides the us market is profitable or maybe thru some back door employee purchase option.its the same corporate mindset that allowed harley davidson to flounder until willie davidson bought it back and turned it into the success it is today

I don't drink coffee, so... ;)

[John]

Take your wife to Japan? That's like taking sand to the beach.

:applaud::applaud::applaud:

[duaneage]

I found a audio store in Osaka near the bullet train station that was JBL-tastic. Lots of Blue paint in there. Unlike a lot of other stores in Japan these guys didn't mind opening them up for demos. Prices were of course out of control but then again anybody with enough room for 4344s or 4350s doesn't care what they cost.

Akihabra is kinda tight. Most of the stores are really small and all these speakers are just packed in there. You can't even try them out because none are connected. Demos consist of dragging them off the shelf and wiring them up. They don't do this casually, you need to be a buyer for real.

The LAOX department store fifth floor had the goods. Martin Logans, Krell, the worls. Multi thousand dollar pieces stacked on shelves like at Best Buy. I bet there was 2 million dollars in inventory on the floor. There were private listening rooms there with cognac and other goodies. They massage customers in Japan like no where else. I spent hours in these stores when the weather was crappy just playing around with the stuff and was tempted many times to buy something but I knew the prices were just too high. The only decent part was foreign passport holders were exempt from the sales tax applied to the purchase, the item was marked in your passport.

[vernb]

Take your wife to Japan? That's like taking sand to the beach.

Maybe I'm ignorant, but I thought american wives differed from japanese ditto, like JBL 4435 do from Rogers LS3/5a ????

Danish wives certainly do not look or act like japanese ones in any way. I would say: Like taking rocks to the beach, perhaps
Vern

[Thomax]

Hello JBL fans !!!

Have a look at thise site : http://jbl43.com/

They are japanese people selling via their website old big JBL monitors. They can ship overseas if you are willing to pay. AND they can also sell 4428, 4338 and 4348 so if anyone is interested...

I know people who have bought from them and they're ok, no problem with them.

Just contact the webmaster.



P.S.: I just want to stress that I have no contact with these japanese people, and that I have no interest in them selling their speakers so I'm not here trying to make business. I know their website and I just thought it would be interesting just to let you people know of it. ;)

[Chas]

hmm...those 4351 vertical monitors look familiar....

[4313B]

Do they now... :)

[John W]

For a fun read, translate the 4355 page from Japanese to English using Babel Fish at http://world.altavista.com/

"The double woofer fascinating the person who is heard, is a characteristic which it invites deeply with the pleasure of audio." :D

It looks like you can buy them in Japan and pick them up in Illinois.

[4313B]

It looks like you can buy them in Japan and pick them up in Illinois.That's weird! :rotfl:

[Titanium Dome]

Man, what's the riessen for that?

[johnaec]

Man, what's the riessen for that?I've always wondered about Ian's signature, (available from Australia too?):

-------------------------------

Ian
__________________
My JBL's
http://jbl43.net/JBL4345.html

-------------------------------

What's the story??

John

[Ian Mackenzie]

If only.

The next time the Tardis lands it might be in a Japanese HiFi showroom!