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kingjames
05-27-2007, 02:36 PM
I just heard a set of L300's and I was floored,my God what a set of speakers.I think I have learned that I like horns.These things were just a pleasure all the way around. I believe they have my 250ti's beaten.

I have to make a decision the L300's or the 250ti's can't keep both. The L300's are mint. Please let me know why you would keep either pair.

If I decide to go with the L300's I will offer my 250ti's here but will be local pickup only.Please let me know your thoughts quickly as this guy will not hold forever. If I make the plunge I will post pictures here later. Thanks. Jim

soundboy
05-27-2007, 03:07 PM
I just heard a set of L300's and I was floored,my God what a set of speakers.I think I have learned that I like horns.These things were just a pleasure all the way around. I believe they have my 250ti's beaten.

I have to make a decision the L300's or the 250ti's can't keep both. The L300's are mint.
You already answered your own question....I would go with the L300's...or you will be kicking yourself....probably the two most polar opposites in design and sound that I could think of...so go with the one that floored you!
The glass tops and clear slot tweeter are pretty cool, too...

Robh3606
05-27-2007, 04:10 PM
Before you jump remember first impression can be deceiving. I would go back with music you know makes your L250ti's shine and see what you think then unless of course you already have. In any case good luck if you decide to go for the L300's.

Rob:)

kingjames
05-27-2007, 05:06 PM
Rob, I took some cd's with me and I have to say they shine more on these L300's than my 250ti's.I love the cabinets on the 250ti's but believe I prefer the sound of the L300's.

Wifey said I could finally get them but I have to get rid of the 250ti's,not so much a furniture thing but a money thing.You know too much month at the end of money and that sort of thing.

I know I will take a loss on my 250ti's and for some reason I'm not too concerned,these speakers got me hypotized or something.I hate when this happens.It's a disease.:yes::banana::banana::dancin::yes:

majick47
05-27-2007, 05:24 PM
Kingjames I listened to JBLNUTS 250ti and they were very impressive, Zilch had modified the 250ti crossovers and they were bi amped. Do to their height with the tweeters and mids up high the 250ti would be excellent as the front L & R in a surround system. My L300 do dual duty as 2 channel and surround front speakers but if the L300 were taller like the 250ti they would be lined up with the center channel speaker sitting on top of my wide screen cabinet. Just something to consider unless you have two seperate systems for 2 ch and surround. As far as the L300 go I doubt I could be tempted away from them unless it was a JBL 434X.

jim campbell
05-27-2007, 05:28 PM
maybe look for other unused articles to unload............you may find having both is preferable.buying either set back down the road is going to be way more money if present trends continue...................remember those things are not new and may end up being down for repair occasionally

Titanium Dome
05-27-2007, 05:31 PM
Jim

Some folks are just naturally horny. I'm not, but many here are, and if you're one of them, there's no place for you to hide.

Yes, you might take a hit on your 250Tis. That's the reality of the pursuit if you can't afford to keep both until conditions are favorable. And you might get buyer's remorse after you've had the L-300s for a while. And you might hear something that you like more than the L-300s that will start the whole process over again.

But those are all "mights" and the one thing that seems sure is that you want the L-300s. Don't turn that sure thing into a "might", as in "I might have been happier with the L-300s if I might have moved faster so I might have gotten them."

subwoof
05-27-2007, 06:31 PM
For me it's always been horns since I came up with a reinforcement engineering background where articulation was the most important.

Put a listener in the back of a room with a pencil and paper. Walk up to the mike and say " shit shoot shot shirt short " and see how well he heard.

Any dome cone in the vocal range will be hard pressed to come anywhere near the level required for good understanding. Remember that a VERY good efficiency for a 5" mid is 5% where any comp driver / horn can do 25%. And at typical operation a diaphram moves very little resulting in lower dynamic distortion.

But one consequence is the horn's pattern and inherent waveform coloration which is a real complicated and passionately debated issue on these pages..:)


This does NOT mean domes are inferior but they have their limitations. Now with todays large amplifiers, wide dynamic range material and our forum members diminishing hearing ( WHAT ?? ) horns are going to give you the best long-term listening.

Before you bet the farm on the 300's be sure to listen to a pair of big 4 ways - there is a member in peoria that bought my 4345's and he might be able to accomodate a listening...

But then you will be selling the car, furniture and stocks to get your hands on a pair.

Fair warning.....

:cheers:

SEAWOLF97
05-27-2007, 06:36 PM
You already answered your own question....I would go with the L300's...or you will be kicking yourself....probably the two most polar opposites in design and sound that I could think of...so go with the one that floored you!
The glass tops and clear slot tweeter are pretty cool, too...

Hey Pete ...didnt we have this same exact conversation in Portland a little while back ? Remember your 1959 Cadillac analogy ?

4313B
05-27-2007, 07:45 PM
Kingjames I listened to JBLNUTS 250ti and they were very impressive, Zilch had modified the 250ti crossovers and they were bi amped.So Zilch is effing around with the networks I build too now?

johnaec
05-27-2007, 08:24 PM
I love the cabinets on the 250ti's but believe I prefer the sound of the L300's.'Ya might wanna' wait until you've heard some of the 434X 4-ways, or you may end up going through the whole thing all over again... :p

John

Zilch
05-27-2007, 08:29 PM
So Zilch is effing around with the networks I build too now?Nope.

Never seen one, actually, other than Project May.

[And certainly didn't eff with those, no, no.... :no: ]

johnaec
05-27-2007, 08:32 PM
So Zilch...I think he's getting you two mixed up... :p

John

hjames
05-27-2007, 09:48 PM
I think he's getting you two mixed up... :p

John

You mean they're not one and the same??

I thought it was a comedy banter thing like Bob and Ray, Proctor and Bergman, or Bergen and McCarthy?

soundboy
05-27-2007, 10:04 PM
Hey Pete ...didnt we have this same exact conversation in Portland a little while back ? Remember your 1959 Cadillac analogy ?

I didn't mean I personally would do it....from the impressions kingjames had, I suggested he do it...I just know how people are, me included, when they hear or see something that really strikes them....and if you like the way the horns sound, a 250ti isn't gonna compete...apples and oranges.
My analogy still stands...but some people like 1959 Cadillacs...and that's ok, as long as I 'm not driving it everyday:p

Like I could afford one anyway...hell, they are a fortune now, too...

opimax
05-28-2007, 07:05 AM
I settled this issue for myself. I won't listen to a set of 300s or anything that that I can afford which should be higher or equal on the sound quality chain. I have heard some things at hi end stores...need a roof over my head more

I settled on the TI series and all that is left is to get the best out of them :banghead:

an on going issue. now back to reading about bass traps,connecting my newest additions(aquaplased tweeters and big amp),

I also had HT in mind w/a higher mounted plasma, the 250 tweeters are the same height as the center tweeters under the tv.

Best of luck w/your decision. it really is a difficult choice :applaud:

I'll offer the 1st grand for the 250's, make great rear surrounds

Mark

kingjames
05-28-2007, 08:57 AM
After careful consideration's and slapping myself a couple of times I have decided not to buy them. I must end this never ending endeavor to find something better than what I already have. If I don't stop it now I'll end up with some Everest's and hocking my house.I don't make this decision lightly but realize it is the right thing to do.

Thanks for all your comment's on the subject as I really enjoyed your opinions pro and con.

I'm 55 years old now and I am still a little boy when it comes to this stuff and I think there is no better better feeling than to listen to your favorite music and hear every single note the way it's supposed to be heard and JBL does this remarkably well.

I did pick up a set of L100's,my favorite's. These belonged to my brother who's had them over 20 years and still has the original dark brown grilles on them and yes the grilles are slowly disapearing.I believe these are the A model.I am going to purchase the orange grilles from re-edger and will post pictures when I receive them.

I also picked up a set of L36's from a cop friend of mine, already re-foamed them and their in not to bad of shape.Sorry for going off topic here.

In the end I believe I made the right decision though I regret it.I must put an end to this disease.Yeah right! Thanks guys and gals!

opimax
05-28-2007, 09:38 AM
Glad you were able to make a decision,sometimes the hardest part!:applaud:

Looking forward to sound comparisons before the 250s go

And when they do I am up to 1100 and climbing :blah::blah:

Mark

johnaec
05-28-2007, 10:20 AM
After careful consideration's and slapping myself a couple of times I have decided not to buy them.I think that's a wise decision. The technology used in the 250Ti's is newer, and I'm willing to bet they reproduce sound more accurately than the L300's. It's like cars - old hot rods or classics are neat and it's easy to get blinded by passion, but when all is said and done, newer cars, while not having as much glitter, usually drive better, are more comfortable, more reliable, get better gas mileage, and so on. And just like having a classic car sitting in the garage for those special times, speakers are the same way. If you could swing it - 250Ti's for everyday use, and L300's to pull out now and again. Otherwise, stay with the realistic practicality.

'Just my opinion...

John,

SEAWOLF97
05-28-2007, 10:34 AM
It's like cars - old hot rods or classics are neat and it's easy to get blinded by passion, but when all is said and done, newer cars, while not having as much glitter, usually drive better, are more comfortable, more reliable, get better gas mileage, and so on. And just like having a classic car sitting in the garage for those special times, speakers are the same way. If you could swing it - 250Ti's for everyday use, and L300's to pull out now and again. Otherwise, stay with the realistic practicality.

thats the 59 Cadillac analogy SB & SW were discussing (and came to the same conclusions) , I had a 1969 Porsche 911...legendary car. Lots of fun to be seen in, but not that much fun to drive, not very reliable, and not even fast by todays standards,


(geeze, I guess I shudnt give advise in buying newer speakers, mine are 197?? vintage, must be 30+ y.o.)



My analogy still stands...but some people like 1959 Cadillacs...and that's ok, as long as I 'm not driving it everyday.

toddalin
05-28-2007, 11:20 AM
Nothing quite like the "in your face" associated with old speakers and old cars. That's the way to go! ;)

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/L200-2235.jpg

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/index_002.jpg

mike
05-28-2007, 01:31 PM
It's good that you were able to make up your mind so fast. I would bet that you would have a tougher time finding another set of 250Ti's than you will have coming across another set of L300's. Those 250Ti's are really transparent and accurate but I must admit that the older JBL systems just seem more enjoyable at times. That forward punchy character of systems like the L300 just makes reproduced music sound alive.

Mike

Mr. Widget
05-28-2007, 01:41 PM
That forward punchy character of systems like the L300 just makes reproduced music sound alive.Yeah, maybe... I too like the "more alive" sound that horn systems tend to offer. I am not terribly keen on the forward punchy character of many of them however. I'd suggest it is the effortless dynamics we respond to at least as much as the frequency response anomalies.


Widget

kingjames
05-28-2007, 01:48 PM
I'm guessing from my serial numbers on the 250ti's put these around 84 or 85, I have the lowest numbers I have ever seen on these,they are both in the 500's.

I don't really care for alot of bass, I don't like for the bass to overpower everyhing else.I prefer a good top end but something that sounds real and not artificial.My 250ti's have a good top end but not like the L300's. I guess it's the horn. The low end on my 250ti' is sufficient and what a kiss ass driver. The L300's did not impress me on the low end and they are probably on par with my 250ti's.

I would like to have my 250ti's with the top end drivers of the XPL140's that I'm selling. These are not horns but sounded awesome when I heard them the xpl140's that is.

There is only a few songs I like to play with overpowering bass because it makes you feel that your part of the action.The Soprano's theme song is a good example. What a song and the bass is stunning and you better have a good driver to reproduce it.I can see the notes in this song destroying some speakers but my 14's handle it with ease.Actually this is the song to use to see if you need re-foaming or not.This piece of music will let you know whether you need a refoam or not.

Just some of my thoughts on this issue.

opimax
05-28-2007, 01:52 PM
I am sorry I misread the answer, still happy for you making a fast choice

Mark
1200???:applaud:

hjames
05-28-2007, 02:22 PM
L300s are 3 ways - the good midrange would be the horns.
The good top end of the L300s is the "glass" slot tweeter - the consumer version of the 2405 (a JBL Pro sound driver).
I think most of the big JBLs would benefit from being biamped - give that 15 a dedicated amp, and let another amp feed the crossover that runs the horn and slot ... That'd get you a nice solid bass - firm but not overbearing.


I'm guessing from my serial numbers on the 250ti's put these around 84 or 85, I have the lowest numbers I have ever seen on these,they are both in the 500's.

I don't really care for alot of bass, I don't like for the bass to overpower everyhing else.I prefer a good top end but something that sounds real and not artificial.My 250ti's have a good top end but not like the L300's. I guess it's the horn. The low end on my 250ti' is sufficient and what a kiss ass driver. The L300's did not impress me on the low end and they are probably on par with my 250ti's.

I would like to have my 250ti's with the top end drivers of the XPL140's that I'm selling. These are not horns but sounded awesome when I heard them the xpl140's that is.

There is only a few songs I like to play with overpowering bass because it makes you feel that your part of the action.The Soprano's theme song is a good example. What a song and the bass is stunning and you better have a good driver to reproduce it.I can see the notes in this song destroying some speakers but my 14's handle it with ease.Actually this is the song to use to see if you need re-foaming or not.This piece of music will let you know whether you need a refoam or not.

Just some of my thoughts on this issue.

JBLRaiser
05-28-2007, 03:55 PM
you'll have plenty of time to sample other JBL/Altec morsels. I'm still getting to know my 19's. Plenty of combinations of amps, tubes,crossovers, etc. to explore. Then on to a 4341 for more sampling if all the planets align. You've got some incredible speakers to enjoy. I think your decision was wise. Just never say never when it comes to JBL .:cheers:

4313B
05-28-2007, 04:45 PM
The L300's did not impress me on the low end and they are probably on par with my 250ti's.On their own they were pretty impressive but if one listened to them side by side one should quickly have noticed that the bottom end of the 250Ti was significantly "better", not "more", just "better".

You are not the first person to be seduced by the L300 by any means... it was a fun loudspeaker with plenty of "wow" factor. The 250Ti was night and day better balanced with comparatively zero fatigue although I personally wasn't real wild about the overall height of the system.

Jakob
05-28-2007, 05:20 PM
Hi!
If You want to keep the cake and eat it, can't You build your own diy L300's? You can start collecting the drivers from ebay or this site and spread your expenses over time, and perhaps the final speakers will be less expensive than these originals. Just a thought.

I own a pair of 250ti's and I'm very pleased with the sound, but found some music to sound too laid back and undynamic. After hearing pro speakers with 2441 and 2227 drivers there were no turning back. Finally I ended up with 2405's, 2450's, E145's and 2243's. Together with biased N333's and a active crossover for the 18-inchers they produce a sound not as sweet as the 250's but more effortless and realistic. However, I still think the 250's are very good speakers, and I don't think I'll ever sell them. All speakers are compromises, and if You have two very different setups (f.e. one direct radiators and one with horns) maybe You are likely to always have one thats fits your mood and the music you decide to listen to at a certain time?

Regards: Jakob

kingjames
05-28-2007, 05:34 PM
On their own they were pretty impressive but if one listened to them side by side one should quickly have noticed that the bottom end of the 250Ti was significantly "better", not "more", just "better".


Giskard,you said what I was trying to say.I was not impressed with the bass on the L300's because I felt it did not sound as good as my 250ti's.

In listening to these L300's I took some of my cd's that I play everyday which is classical music. I only use classical music when I audition speakers. With the songs that I choose will tell me how the other different types of music will sound. Usually works for me.

I do like the height of these beauties after all the old lady doesn't get to put her potted plants on them.

speakerdave
05-28-2007, 08:20 PM
i think you've made the right choice. With L300's I believe you would soon miss the clarity and detail in the midrange, especially for classical music.

David

4313B
05-28-2007, 08:47 PM
All speakers are compromises, and if You have two very different setups (f.e. one direct radiators and one with horns) maybe You are likely to always have one thats fits your mood and the music you decide to listen to at a certain time?


I do like the height of these beauties after all the old lady doesn't get to put her potted plants on them.


With L300's I believe you would soon miss the clarity and detail in the midrange, especially for classical music.Good points. :)

Titanium Dome
05-28-2007, 08:49 PM
All speakers are compromises, and if You have two very different setups (f.e. one direct radiators and one with horns) maybe You are likely to always have one thats fits your mood and the music you decide to listen to at a certain time?

Regards: Jakob

Well observed, Jakob. So many tastes, so many flavors, so many textures... I cannot eat fish every day, or chicken, or potato salad. I want variety.

Believing there is only one "correct" sound is like saying there is only one touch, one smell, one flavor, one view.

Storm
05-28-2007, 09:06 PM
I do like the height of these beauties after all the old lady doesn't get to put her potted plants on them.

Wow, that is the BEST quote --- EVER!

:rotfl:

-Storm.

Thom
05-29-2007, 12:36 AM
I thought in theory there was always one perfect color and that was none, probably a myth. Unless you wish to include the speakers as one of the instruments as opposed to the playback mechanism. I should go.